@SteveLuke posted:Who thinks Jaire plays in game 17 against the Bears after the 1-game suspension?
Better question. Who gives a fuck whether he plays or not?
Sad answer... You can probably add Alexander himself to the not giving a fuck about playing list.
If I recall correctly Ja also skipped all the voluntary off season stuff, giving up a hefty workout bonus by not being there (could be rong).
@FLPACKER posted:What would really help is to have vets who would not put up with any BS. Being shunned by your teammates is probably the greatest motivator for change. I just don't see any of that happening right now.
Eric Wilson (who as a captain on Sunday) was asked what he thought when he saw Jaire show up for the coin toss. "No comment" was his on the record answer. Off the record he basically said his response was "WTF are you doing here??".
As a vet who has played with a number of teams it sounded like he was not too happy with Jaire's shenanigans. Whether they he told him as much, who knows.
Ja absolutely should be held accountable. Everyone from the top down should. Problem is, there’s one guy in particular FUB (Fuck You Barry) who isn’t. Nobody wants to follow a moron as a leader. If you’re in the regular work world, like us, you start looking for a different job. In the NFL, you refuse to play and demand a trade. That’s the only way they can leave a team if they’re disgruntled.
MLF has done the worst possible coaching job this year. The suspension comes from Gutey? That’s should be coming from Milk Toast. He just had someone else do his dirty work now for sure nobody will respect his authority. If I, as a GM need to step in to solve your problems, I need a different head coach. Especially when this has happened before with ST’s coaches.
@Tschmack posted:As for 23, I hope this is simply a snapshot in time because guys like that don’t grow on trees. Elite corners are unicorns and we’ll probably spend the next decade and god knows how many draft picks to replace the guy if the team is dumb enough to trade or release him.
Elite corners show up every week. Day in, day out. They don't decide when to play and when not to play. Charles Woodson was an elite corner. He understood not only the work he needed to put in, but the dedication to his teammates and the defense as a whole.
Alexander loves having the title of elite corner. But he doesn't exactly go out there and earn it every week. No one denies his talent. But I do question his desire to his craft. If you're focused on being a great corner, things like this stunt don't enter your mind. If you want to be included in the coin toss in your home town, you go to your coach and you ask for it. You don't just decide for everyone, let alone nearly fuck it all up.
The disregard and lack of consideration for your coaches and teammates were bad enough. Trying to play it off like no big deal, while still CLEARLY not understanding what he did, that reaches elite in the dumbest things a player ever chose to do. And what are the odds that he fully believed he could do this because he's an elite corner and nothing will happen to him?
Everyone is replaceable, even Aaron Rodgers, even Brett Favre, even Charles Woodson. The reason you keep those guys around is because you know how badly they gaf about winning football games and competing at the highest level. Jaire needed so badly to show how special he was that he sacrificed the opportunity to play in probably the biggest game of the year with playoffs on the line. So now he can't even try to show how elite he really is. He has a choice in front of him. Reset your shit and come back and be the teammate you're supposed to be, or play the diva who thinks what you did was no big deal. I'll welcome him back with open arms if he chooses the team over himself. Otherwise, kick rocks and let some young kid get his chance.
@titmfatied posted:Looking at Over the Cap 23 has a $650k per game roster bonus. That means everytime he says no to playing a game he loses out on $650k. He has to be active on gameday to get that money.
Have to correct myself on that information after a second look. I believe the $650k is for the entire season. 1/17 is about $38k per game.
Attachments
@Harry Manback posted:MLF has done the worst possible coaching job this year. The suspension comes from Gutey? That’s should be coming from Milk Toast. He just had someone else do his dirty work now for sure nobody will respect his authority. If I, as a GM need to step in to solve your problems, I need a different head coach. Especially when this has happened before with ST’s coaches.
This was not a solo decision by Gute. Yes, he put out the statement. No, it was not his decision alone. MLF had as much input to deciding to suspend Ja and that was made clear at his press conference yesterday.
While the defense and keeping Barry has been a disaster, I do not at all agree he’s done “the worst” possible coaching job.
On offense, you could not ask for much better results. He’s done a terrific job with Jordan Love and helped him to become a solid QB and assuring the Packers he’s their future at the most important position in the NFL. The Packers have the 11th scoring offense in the NFL and are a top flight passing offense. This is despite having the youngest WR/TE group in the NFL.
Hell, Jordan Love has better numbers then Patrick Mahomes and are in the full thick of the playoff race with 2 games to go. Who in world felt that was going to be a reality this year? Next to no one
@artis posted:Alexander loves having the title of elite corner. But he doesn't exactly go out there and earn it every week.
LeRoy Butler had a great tidbit on this on his podcast this week. There was a specific play late in the game where Jaire was supposed to cover both the deep and shallow guy, namely splitting them. Jaire has done that successfully in the past. But on Sunday he only covered the shallow guy and left the deep guy open (which is where the ball went, first down).
LeRoy said elite corners can cover both, and mentioned a time when Fritz wanted LeRoy to cover both Shannon Sharpe on the bootleg and cover the run at the same time. LeRoy asked him "how am I supposed to cover both?". And Fritz said "I thought you told me you were the best safety in the league?" That snapped LeRoy out of it and he covered them both.
As LeRoy later said "If we're asking too much of Jaire, fine. But when you keep saying you're the best corner in the league, you need to cover both, or you're not".
@packerboi posted:Hell, Jordan Love has better numbers then Patrick Mahomes and are in the full thick of the playoff race with 2 games to go. Who in world felt that was going to be a reality this year? Next to no one
This is why the stuff with Jaire is so infuriating. We're right in the hunt to do something nobody thought was possible, and we got guys like Jaire being all butthurt and showing up the team like we're a 2-13 team with nothing to play for.
@vitaflo posted:LeRoy Butler had a great tidbit on this on his podcast this week. There was a specific play late in the game where Jaire was supposed to cover both the deep and shallow guy, namely splitting them. Jaire has done that successfully in the past. But on Sunday he only covered the shallow guy and left the deep guy open (which is where the ball went, first down).
LeRoy said elite corners can cover both, and mentioned a time when Fritz wanted LeRoy to cover both Shannon Sharpe on the bootleg and cover the run at the same time. LeRoy asked him "how am I supposed to cover both?". And Fritz said "I thought you told me you were the best safety in the league?" That snapped LeRoy out of it and he covered them both.
As LeRoy later said "If we're asking too much of Jaire, fine. But when you keep saying you're the best corner in the league, you need to cover both, or you're not".
Butler was a special player and he is a special human being. He faced adversity his entire life prior to college and the pros. He also was drafted to a doormat of a team. He learned humility early on, so his belief and investment in himself is what carried him to being the best safety in the league. Once the tide turned, Reggie showed up along with other key guys on that defense, Butler became the leader in that secondary because it became more clear what it meant to be great. There was a standard set on that unit and LeRoy knew he was the guy to keep things solid in that young secondary.
Idk what kind of teammate Jaire is, but he has an opportunity to define himself directly from this mistake. There's no doubt that it's been difficult playing for a stooge who can't unleash you to be your best. That needs to change at the end of the year. But if 23 really wants to be great, he needs to suck it up, admit he fucked up and hurt his team by doing what he did, and learn from it. I believe he's capable of that, and MLF/Gute left that door wide open for him. Now it's a matter of how controlled he is by his ego.
Butler made the greatest interception I have ever seen. Packers were playing Houston and the WR was in front of Leroy, Leroy jumped directly over the top of the WR and caught the interception before landing on the ground now in front of the WR without ever touching him.
He was the guide a couple of years ago through the stadium when my grandson and I went to Lambeau before they played the Rams. He was so funny. Grandson had an AR jersey on and Leroy signed it. Told my grandson that Aaron owed him some money for signing it. I never watch the HOF ceremonies but I made it a point to watch Butlers. Inspiring without a doubt.
@packerboi posted:Lastly, it seems like MLF and Ja cleared the air with this suspension. That can only help moving forward.
Meh.... His actions with the coin toss are those you would expect from an immature person. He's a good character person for sure, but might be a little immature to handle this situation.
He's going to have to eat his pride if he wants to stay a Packer and I don't think will happen. There will be resentment and it should lead to a trade.
@vitaflo posted:This is why the stuff with Jaire is so infuriating. We're right in the hunt to do something nobody thought was possible, and we got guys like Jaire being all butthurt and showing up the team like we're a 2-13 team with nothing to play for.
That's 100% on MLF. People keep saying shit canning Barry mid season doesn't accomplish anything.
Yes it does, it shows your team you don't put up with failure or bullshit. I have hard time believing Ja pulls this shit if Barry was shit canned. I have a hard time believing Campbell quits if Barry was shit canned.
Alexander, Douglas and Campbell. It’s not just one guy.
This is why MLF and Barry can both fuck off.
@BrainDed posted:That's 100% on MLF. People keep saying shit canning Barry mid season doesn't accomplish anything.
Yes it does, it shows your team you don't put up with failure or bullshit. I have hard time believing Ja pulls this shit if Barry was shit canned. I have a hard time believing Campbell quits if Barry was shit canned.
You may be right, but given the way Alexander came off after the game, it's entirely possible things have been communicated directly to him that were either misunderstood or he took them the way he wanted to take them. Or happened to not be listening at all. I have real reservations about MLF as a leader, but I'd say the bulk of that is the way he coaches in those three hour windows on the field every Sunday. In this case, I can't say I have confidence that Jaire has his ears open to things he's being told.
Most likely had Barry been canned this doesn't happen. But really the bottom line is Alexander is being paid to be professional and handle his business accordingly. Choosing to walk on the field as a not captain tells me he didn't give one fuck about his teammates or his coaches. He was gonna do what he wanted to do. Why on earth should those designated captains somehow be cool with such clownishness? Wtf is a head coach supposed to do in such a situation?
"Hey coach, we're playing in my home town this week. Do you mind if I join the other captains for the coin toss?" That's how fucking simple it could have been. Instead, you hurt your own team and yourself by pulling an idiotic stunt that could have really hurt the outcome of the game.
Alexander Obviously doesn’t know of the phrase “team player” with his stupid stunt before the game.
For the billionth time, it’s not just Jaire. He’s getting a lot of attention (rightfully so) but quit trying to gloss over the primary issue. The defensive schemes and preparations have sucked for years. It’s cost this team wins and likely playoff success. If I were a player and had to deal with this shit week after week I’d be ashamed and embarrassed and pissed off and annoyed as well. DO SOMETHING!
Alexander should have handled things much better, no doubt about it. But he’s a lot more goddamn important to this team than some has been or never will be defensive coordinator.
Then you have Saint LaFleur droning on about accountability. STFU already. There isn’t any! You are the goddamn head coach yet play favorites with your buddy coaches and all the players know it. Too little too late making an example of Alexander. And your form of leadership was having Gute announce the suspension? When does that ever happen in season in GB. What a pussy move by LaDoof.
I gurandamn tee you this nonsense will cost them a playoff spot and naturally should cost MLF and Barry their jobs. Pretty boy LaFleur can wax his brows as head coach at Eastern Michigan for all I fucking care. This is a big boys league. You continue to talk tough and point the dirty stick at others yet come up small time and time again. And we’re still fucking talking about a coin toss? Seriously?
A real owner of this team would have fired Barry and Lafleur several times already. Maybe Alexander needs to go as well but anyone thinking he’s the problem with this team and defense needs to have their head examined.
And while I love romanticizing about what Leroy Butler thinks and says, it’s doesn’t mean much today. It’s a win and perform now business, right or wrong. And he’s probably my all time favorite Packer. If Butler had to put up with this shit today I’m sure he’d speak his mind, or not play or force a trade as that’s how life is today. BTW, Shurmur ain’t Barry.
@Tschmack posted:Maybe Alexander needs to go as well but anyone thinking he’s the problem with this team and defense needs to have their head examined.
And while I love romanticizing about what Leroy Butler thinks and says, it’s doesn’t mean much today. It’s a win and perform now business, right or wrong. And he’s probably my all time favorite Packer. If Butler had to put up with this shit today I’m sure he’d speak his mind, or not play or force a trade as that’s how life is today. BTW, Shurmur ain’t Barry.
Jaire made himself part of the problem with his antics. No one else did that but him. I haven't seen anyone claim him to be the sole or primary problem. But there's no denying that he poured gasoline on an existing situation. And for what exactly?
Butler's pov is no more or less important than any player in terms of the current situation. But his insight speaks to being clear about how a team leader should be expected to act. Leave MLF, Barry, Gute out of it for a second. What Alexander did was disrespectful to his own fucking TEAMMATES. It wasn't in any way, shape or form how a veteran player should be conducting himself, let alone a captain. On top of that, he was the pussy in how he responded once he was called out. Claiming they had no issue with what he did? Really? His comments and attitude alone could have warranted a suspension.
The idea that this issue circles back to Gute or MLF or Barry or anyone only serves to muddy the situation and give cover to a guy that chose himself over his team. You're right, there's a litany of players who probably have legit reasons to be frustrated or pissed off. But instead of being part of the solution, Jaire picks this moment to act like a fucking idiot. How does that fall on anyone else but the player himself? This is on par with the stupid boat party by NYG wrs leading up to a playoff game. All world talent, 5 cent brain.
@packerboi posted:This was not a solo decision by Gute. Yes, he put out the statement. No, it was not his decision alone. MLF had as much input to deciding to suspend Ja and that was made clear at his press conference yesterday.
While the defense and keeping Barry has been a disaster, I do not at all agree he’s done “the worst” possible coaching job.
On offense, you could not ask for much better results. He’s done a terrific job with Jordan Love and helped him to become a solid QB and assuring the Packers he’s their future at the most important position in the NFL. The Packers have the 11th scoring offense in the NFL and are a top flight passing offense. This is despite having the youngest WR/TE group in the NFL.
Hell, Jordan Love has better numbers then Patrick Mahomes and are in the full thick of the playoff race with 2 games to go. Who in world felt that was going to be a reality this year? Next to no one
Great, he can be demoted to OC. It takes more than what Milk Toast has to be an effective head coach. We're not paying him to be an OC. Whether this was his decision or not, he should have been the one making the announcement. He should have insisted upon it. Maybe he did, but then that highlights the other problems we have at the leadership level. People getting in other people's shit where they don't belong.
Dougherty: Packers will have to decide if Jaire Alexander's talent is worth jeopardizing locker room
Piece quotes a scout as saying they could likely get a second for him.
I called it earlier in the thread--a second for him, a former All-Pro. Some injury history but lots of talent.
That defense needs a leader. They had one in Rasul Douglas, a leader that everyone in that locker room respected, including Jaire, and they traded him away for a 3rd.
They are losing the locker room because MLF refuses to hold the DC accountable and instead is blaming players for their performance and that's it.
Before the Carolina game a players only meeting happened. They played better for the first 2 quarters then the 2nd half happened and same old "communication issues" and players playing wayy off the LOS in certain situations.
After Jaren "BakerDevitoYoung" Hall carves up this defense and becomes Offensive player of the week, I cannot wait for the next line of excuses.
I fully expect Gutey and the boys to do everything they can to get Jaire back. We'll see.....
Not certain the Packers are in a financial position to keep paying players ACTUAL money (not cap money) to play for other teams.
I don't care for Barry, but I do think we have some stupid players on defense. I heard some former players discussing this on NFL Network a couple of weeks ago. They said some units never get better with execution because they have some dumb players. Some of the "communication problems" that MLF refers to are likely not really communication, but rather some guys on defense suffer from CRS ....Can't Remember Shit.
It will be interesting to see what he says, if anything, when he gets back after the queen game. Providing he comes back at all and just sits home and stews.
I often wonder why it isn't standard for teams to have a neuropsychologist on staff (unless it is), both to assess and aid a player's learning, as well as to address and support a player when emotional or personality concerns come up. There is so much focus on the physical aspect of the game, but it's the mental aspect that rows the boat.
@Dr._Bob posted:I often wonder why it isn't standard for teams to have a neuropsychologist on staff (unless it is), both to assess and aid a player's learning, as well as to address and support a player when emotional or personality concerns come up. There is so much focus on the physical aspect of the game, but it's the mental aspect that rows the boat.
Boom Doc....you nailed it.
Half the battle with these coaches is them learning how to be a good teacher because not everyone learns the same way.
So if the players are "stupid" perhaps that's on the coaches to learn a different way to train them or teach them.
@Boris posted:Boom Doc....you nailed it.
Half the battle with these coaches is them learning how to be a good teacher because not everyone learns the same way.
So if the players are "stupid" perhaps that's on the coaches to learn a different way to train them or teach them.
I've been thinking about that with Barry and all the "communication" problems. Think of how much more sophisticated defense is now compared to previous generations of players. Personnel groupings, disguising coverages, different blitzes, changing coverages on the snap, etc. Athletes have gotten bigger , faster, stronger, but not really smarter. Always have to keep in mind as a coach that it isn't what you know, but what your players can learn.
@Boris posted:Boom Doc....you nailed it.
Half the battle with these coaches is them learning how to be a good teacher because not everyone learns the same way.
So if the players are "stupid" perhaps that's on the coaches to learn a different way to train them or teach them.
You can't fix stupid.
@D J posted:You can't fix stupid.
You can't fix it, but you can minimize it. Drill, drill, drill and simplify, simplify, simplify. If a guy cannot be counted upon to be where he's supposed to be consistently, then put someone else in for big plays. It's better to be able to count on an average guy in critical situations to minimize the damage rather than a more talanted player who is prone to allowing a huge gainer.
@D J posted:You can't fix stupid.
None of these guys are stupid.
Rashaan Gary is dyslexic that's not stupid, it's a learning disability that can be fixed with proper teaching techniques.
It's important and I'm pretty certain where all the "communication issues" on the defense stem from.
What I saw in my latter years in eduction was increasing difficulty with students being able to take verbal information and physically act on it. I really noticed this with directions such as "go down this hallway, take a left at the next hallway and the classroom is on the right".... I'd find the kid lost in another part of the building. This is basically what players have to do. They get the call (verbal) and have to physically act upon it.
@FLPACKER posted:What I saw in my latter years in eduction was increasing difficulty with students being able to take verbal information and physically act on it. I really noticed this with directions such as "go down this hallway, take a left at the next hallway and the classroom is on the right".... I'd find the kid lost in another part of the building. This is basically what players have to do. They get the call (verbal) and have to physically act upon it.
So true. Anything with more than one step (do this), they cannot comprehend. I am constantly demonstrating and reminding students -- and then marking it wrong -- any two-step directions/questions. "Where did X rescue the girl and why is this important?" or "Answer the questions in complete sentences and then turn in only your answer sheet." With either one of these questions/directions, you might as well be speaking Latin to 90% of high school kids.
As for Gary having dyslexia, a good teacher/coach will have several teaching techniques up their sleeves to address the many different ways people learn, and then that teacher/coach should also be able to reinforce in different ways what has been taught whether someone has dyslexia or not. Dyslexia is not synonymous with stupid; my wife is dyslexic, and she's an engineer for a Fortune 500 company. But, you do have to find different ways to teach. (I teach far too many students with dyslexia, and each one is different. You have to constantly be learning and adjusting what you do.)
I get a kick out of X4 keyboard warriors calling out professional athletes as stupid or lazy when none of us have any idea what it takes to get that far.
Lol Jaire Alexander is probably in the top 5% of anyone that can do what he does in the world. Gary is probably 10%.
It’s insulting and honestly lazy to suggest they aren’t smart enough or can’t communicate. Yet morons like MLF and Barry get a pass. Why? Perhaps it’s because they are white. Flame away but if a black dude coached like those two morons they would have been canned many times by now.
We love our underachieving white guys in GB.