I think Cobb was a case of GB letting Cobb go more than Cobb wanting to go. Maybe Cobb wanted more money than GB was willing to pay, but he just couldn't put together a full season any more either.
Can't fault Jones at all if he wants to maximize his earning potential given the limited time an NFL RB has. Quality player and person but that's just the nature of the business.
@Fandame posted:I think Cobb was a case of GB letting Cobb go more than Cobb wanting to go. Maybe Cobb wanted more money than GB was willing to pay, but he just couldn't put together a full season any more either.
True but like beluga he was well compensated for playing on a crappy team
@michiganjoe posted:Can't fault Jones at all if he wants to maximize his earning potential given the limited time an NFL RB has. Quality player and person but that's just the nature of the business.
Yep. Given his position this might be his one shot to earn generational worth. Won't fault him at all if he just goes to the highest bidder.
@PackerHawk posted:Yep. Given his position this might be his one shot to earn generational worth. Won't fault him at all if he just goes to the highest bidder.
This comment was true in years' past, but with the growth of the cap, these guys are getting generational wealth in the first year of their 2nd contract. So money is no longer the scarce item - winning football games is.
Aaron Jones was a lowly 5th rounder and he will earn over $ 4M on his rookie deal. ( includes performance boosters)
His next deal, even if it isn't close to top dollars will cover generational wealth regardless of which team he goes to. Given that, why waste your short football career losing games on a shitty team ?
2 years $20 Million with half of that guaranteed means nobody in his family will ever have to work a day in their lives - and no need to even touch the principal - the interest alone covers several consecutive lifetime scholarships.
This message will continue to fall on deaf ears because we've all been trained to "get as much as you can while you can."
That's becoming antiquated thinking in the modern NFL compensation world
I agree, if you are making 10 million a year and really like your current life why risk going to another team / uprooting your family for 12 million? When you are making that much does 2 million really matter?
It's a tough spot. I think many players are horrified of the nonstop barrage that ensues if a contract is deemed a bargain. The owners "got the better of" the player. So while no one should expect a player to minimize their own worth, other factors should be considered as well. Like, for instance, if you got Antonio Brown in a room and he could be honest, he might say he didn't fully comprehend what life would be like without his synergy with Ben. Those are intangibles that can be very difficult if not impossible to see, especially to gifted 20 somethings who never hear the word no. I also think it's a tough road to navigate for a front office, like in terms of Cobb, or Jones, or even Woodson. These guys made major contributions, which put asses in seats and kept the franchise successful. You shouldn't be ok with shoving them off in a trite way. But foremost, it's a business.
Greg Jennings, Ryan Longwell, Marco Rivera, Ahman Green, TJ Lang. The list is long. Not all exactly the same cases, but they all ended up signing substantial contracts and fizzling out. It could be framed as a power play by ownership, but the idea of a hometown bargain involves more than just the $$$, like we heard from Jordy, and Driver, and quite a few others. This group of guys are together potentially for just one year, and there's serious worth in job environment that many times isn't talked about. Walking away from this roster for $$$ would be voluntarily leaving something you will probably never find again.
Plus....His NFL contract doesn't include endorsements. Your family will be set for life even if you stay in Green Bay at a slightly less contract.
But either way.....I don't fault him if he goes for more cash.
"2 years $20 Million with half of that guaranteed means nobody in his family will ever have to work a day in their lives - and no need to even touch the principal -"
Immediate family, maybe, depends on how you define immediate family and what life style you want.
To not risk the principal and get an immediate return, you're not getting more than 2%. You could put some more risk on the principal and go with a high yield mutual fund, something that holds stable large caps and utilities and MAYBE get 4%.
2% would be a yearly salary of 400k before taxes. Is that providing him and his family the lifestyle they want if none of them ever work? Meh, I don't think so.
4% would be 800k a year salary before taxes. Now we are in the ball park.
Or you could take a deal that gets you $50 million over 4 years. Put 20 million of it into a high yield fund and have another THIRTY MILLION to play Miami Vice with. I can buy my homes and boats with cash and still have my yearly salary of 800k. If I go with just the 20 million, I got a mortgage to pay with my salary.
Give me the 50 Million over 4 and give it to me in Miami so I pay less income tax.
His decision, his life. Seems he has a good set of parents. I hope all these guys have someone with their wellbeing in their corner.
Who knows, he may take a discount and we would love that. But 2 or 3 mill a year is a lot of moolah. And we seem to think that in order to get more money he has to go to a shitty team. Not necessarily so.
I hope he stays, but I doubt it.
@artis posted:It's a tough spot. I think many players are horrified of the nonstop barrage that ensues if a contract is deemed a bargain. The owners "got the better of" the player. So while no one should expect a player to minimize their own worth, other factors should be considered as well. Like, for instance, if you got Antonio Brown in a room and he could be honest, he might say he didn't fully comprehend what life would be like without his synergy with Ben. Those are intangibles that can be very difficult if not impossible to see, especially to gifted 20 somethings who never hear the word no. I also think it's a tough road to navigate for a front office, like in terms of Cobb, or Jones, or even Woodson. These guys made major contributions, which put asses in seats and kept the franchise successful. You shouldn't be ok with shoving them off in a trite way. But foremost, it's a business.
Greg Jennings, Ryan Longwell, Marco Rivera, Ahman Green, TJ Lang. The list is long. Not all exactly the same cases, but they all ended up signing substantial contracts and fizzling out. It could be framed as a power play by ownership, but the idea of a hometown bargain involves more than just the $$$, like we heard from Jordy, and Driver, and quite a few others. This group of guys are together potentially for just one year, and there's serious worth in job environment that many times isn't talked about. Walking away from this roster for $$$ would be voluntarily leaving something you will probably never find again.
The biggest issue is the lack of money RBs get relative to other positions. They get less money because they are more of an injury risk, but each individual RB knows that they are a higher injury risk so they need to hold out to get money on this contact because that third contract almost never comes like it does for a QB, LT, or DE. WRs are better off than RBs, but once they lose a step they fade quick (Jordy Nelson is a good example).
If you knew that Jones was going to say mostly healthy for the next 4 years, then 50 million over 4 years is a relative bargain. The problem is that it's probably at most a 20% chance of that happening.
The problem is that guys like Todd Gurley see an average QB on their team (Goff) get north of 100 million guaranteed and want the big money too. That didn't work out for the Rams to give it to him.
Look at the Steelers. They didn't budge on LeVeon Bell or AB and they are much better off in the long run. Imagine if you took Jones and D. Adams off the Packers next year. That's what the Steelers decided to do. AB had "character" issues clearly. But you can see why AB (and Bell) might think that argument is BS when the Steelers give huge money to Big Ben who has much bigger character issues in his past than either of them.
I haven't heard this in a while, but I'm sure it is still the case with many players that salary equals "respect." If a team doesn't offer a break-the-bank type of contract, they don't respect the player. Then it is a short step to thinking, "Yeah, perhaps I win more games if I stay, but how can I play for an organization that doesn't respect me?" That way they convince themselves they aren't focused on something as superficial as money.
So much has to do with the team and organization as well. Look at NYJ or Detroit. You could add $2 million or $4 million/year to your contract, but would you really want to play for an organization so f'd up? The money might make you feel better, but you'd still be playing for a lousy organization. Rodgers has said that he loves the makeup of this team, and he's having fun again. While each year is different, how much money would it take for you to give up an organization like GB or KC or NO for say, NYJ or DET?
It all comes down to something none of us have any clue about. We don't know what AJones's priorities are.
@MichiganPacker2 posted:The biggest issue is the lack of money RBs get relative to other positions. They get less money because they are more of an injury risk, but each individual RB knows that they are a higher injury risk so they need to hold out to get money on this contact because that third contract almost never comes like it does for a QB, LT, or DE. WRs are better off than RBs, but once they lose a step they fade quick (Jordy Nelson is a good example).
If you knew that Jones was going to say mostly healthy for the next 4 years, then 50 million over 4 years is a relative bargain. The problem is that it's probably at most a 20% chance of that happening.
The problem is that guys like Todd Gurley see an average QB on their team (Goff) get north of 100 million guaranteed and want the big money too. That didn't work out for the Rams to give it to him.
Look at the Steelers. They didn't budge on LeVeon Bell or AB and they are much better off in the long run. Imagine if you took Jones and D. Adams off the Packers next year. That's what the Steelers decided to do. AB had "character" issues clearly. But you can see why AB (and Bell) might think that argument is BS when the Steelers give huge money to Big Ben who has much bigger character issues in his past than either of them.
Right. And both sides can put up valid arguments in these cases. It's also important to recognize that the Steelers, and GB only with less hype, are regarded as running a sound but fair operation. That becomes much harder to maintain when salaries are skyrocketing.
We certainly can't blame AJ if his priority is financial security. And while we don't know personally what's in his mind, it's also a good bet that having come from a military family that he holds dear, cameraderie and acceptance inside a locker room and within a community holds some weight, too. At least it's something that might be a consideration for him. But you don't know what you don't know, it's the benefit/curse of being young.
RB has certainly become that tweener position like you explained. None of this will be seamless and easy. What value does Jamaal Williams have? It's near impossible to quantify what he brings to this team. Losing him would be a shame to me as much as seeing Jones skip town. But in this case, he will most likely be the odd man out. Even if he isn't, the Jones/Jamaal tandem is most likely finished. The shame of it is for the rest of this season it's a great "problem" to have, and once the games are done it immediately becomes a crummy problem to have.
It should be noted that the player is highly influenced by his agent, who is most definitely in it for the money.
You people sure are eager to give away $10 or $15 million of someone else's money.
Reading reactions on these old draft threads are just hilarious. Clearly, we as fans don’t know shit. We need to chill out a bit about draft picks.
Goalline is going to request you lick Jones butthole.
Considering that he just turned 26, and is 'low mileage' for a RB, perhaps the Packers can do something unconventional... like a 6 year contract.
I think the buy-in will likely be $15M Avg/Yr and $30M guarantee, and if the team can essentially fit that into a 4 year window, but have another 2 years to spread it out on the cap, maybe it's doable.
Counting on 4 more years (at least) from Jones is a big risk, but one worth taking, IMO. He does have some injury history, but tends to heal fairly quickly. And lastly, because he rotates regularly, his snaps are relatively limited over the course of a season. There shouldn't be any reason to change that going forward.
@PackerHawk posted:You people sure are eager to give away $10 or $15 million of someone else's money.
Bullshit!!! It’s our money, we own this damn team!!
Got my stock certificate on the wall ! ! !
Compared to Jamal Reynolds, I was all-pro. I have great body lean!
Aaron Jones has really added a big play element to this offense and his running style isn’t exactly set up to take big hits as some other more traditional backs.
Still, there’s a reason why RBs have such a short lifespan in the league. They are the one position on the field that takes a shot just about every time they touch the ball. Jones seems able to avoid taking some hits but he’s not Barry Sanders.
Some team or teams are going to offer him big money. The Packers should proceed carefully. Ideally though you would love to bring him back.
@Satori posted:If they were close, it would have already happened by now.
And Gute publicly stating that they are going to sit on cap space in hopes of some top talent shaking free from the COVID-reduced 2021 cap - was a shot across the bow for Jones and Rosenhaus.
Rosenhaus is his new agent? Oh, he's gone.
No matter where goes, no matter what he signs for he will not qualify for the 600.00. (Or 2000.00) relief payment.
@Boris posted:A quick search reveals which teams have most cap space. ...
As a side note...look who has the least amount of cap space.
SHOCKER! Well, that will happen when you build a perennial Super Bowl powerhouse.
@BrainDed posted:"2 years $20 Million with half of that guaranteed means nobody in his family will ever have to work a day in their lives - and no need to even touch the principal -"
Immediate family, maybe, depends on how you define immediate family and what life style you want.
To not risk the principal and get an immediate return, you're not getting more than 2%. You could put some more risk on the principal and go with a high yield mutual fund, something that holds stable large caps and utilities and MAYBE get 4%.
2% would be a yearly salary of 400k before taxes. Is that providing him and his family the lifestyle they want if none of them ever work? Meh, I don't think so.
4% would be 800k a year salary before taxes. Now we are in the ball park.
Or you could take a deal that gets you $50 million over 4 years. Put 20 million of it into a high yield fund and have another THIRTY MILLION to play Miami Vice with. I can buy my homes and boats with cash and still have my yearly salary of 800k. If I go with just the 20 million, I got a mortgage to pay with my salary.
Give me the 50 Million over 4 and give it to me in Miami so I pay less income tax.
Thanks and you're making excellent points here, but I think you're shortselling how much he'd earn on an annual basis. The 2% returns and 4% returns are consistent with lower dollar retail investments - but once you get into the high net worth arena, the returns are more in the 5-10 % range, some higher.
One example is on IPO's - the JP Morgans of the world get in at $ 25 a share, but the stock goes public at $ 33/ share - so they've already made $8/ share when the opening bell sounds and then they make even more after the stock takes off. This is just one small example of the perks of being wealthy - you get access to things the average schmoes will never even see.
They also have pro's that will reduce their tax burden vs what we pay.
For some young millionaires the cars/boats and Miami Vice lifestyle are important, while for others its a symbol of respect as Dr. Bob astutely noted.
Its highly likley that things will continue as they are - where money rules all decisions. But having a $400k salary for life is a pretty sweet gig, especially since that's only 1 bucket in your investment portfolio.
And remember, they are getting to play for any team they want, not just the highest bidder- and with a short NFL career there's a huge lifetime value in choosing winning teams and competing for Titles.
LeVeon Bell is a perfect example of a dude who chose solely based on money and he regrets his JETS choice and wasted his prime in Turd City
No amount of money will ever bring that back - which is why I say money shouldn't be The Decider any more.
I would never recommend a running back take less money under almost any circumstances. Any other position I would agree, but RB is just different. That doesn't mean he should leave GB just to take a bigger deal on a crappier team. Green Bay has a good track record of players actually playing out their deals, so a 3 year $40m deal with $20m guaranteed from Green Bay may net him more money than a 5 year $70m deal with $30m guaranteed from a garbage team like the Jets.
This would be a very different conversation if Gute hadn't drafted Dillon in the second round. You don't draft backups in the second round. And you don't give backups 10 figures a year. Something has to give, and I think it leads to Jones walking.
@Satori posted:Thanks and you're making excellent points here, but I think you're shortselling how much he'd earn on an annual basis. The 2% returns and 4% returns are consistent with lower dollar retail investments - but once you get into the high net worth arena, the returns are more in the 5-10 % range, some higher.
One example is on IPO's - the JP Morgans of the world get in at $ 25 a share, but the stock goes public at $ 33/ share - so they've already made $8/ share when the opening bell sounds and then they make even more after the stock takes off. This is just one small example of the perks of being wealthy - you get access to things the average schmoes will never even see.
They also have pro's that will reduce their tax burden vs what we pay.
For some young millionaires the cars/boats and Miami Vice lifestyle are important, while for others its a symbol of respect as Dr. Bob astutely noted.
Its highly likley that things will continue as they are - where money rules all decisions. But having a $400k salary for life is a pretty sweet gig, especially since that's only 1 bucket in your investment portfolio.
And remember, they are getting to play for any team they want, not just the highest bidder- and with a short NFL career there's a huge lifetime value in choosing winning teams and competing for Titles.
LeVeon Bell is a perfect example of a dude who chose solely based on money and he regrets his JETS choice and wasted his prime in Turd City
No amount of money will ever bring that back - which is why I say money shouldn't be The Decider any more.
LeVeon Bell got 28 million from the Jets and then he gets to sign with the Chiefs and contribute to a Super Bowl contender.
Yup. While you can judge Bell holding out for that one year, signing with the Jets has seemed to work out ok. Made $28m in 2 years and is now playing on a contender.
@Goalline posted:And the fucking Bears got him too. Compared to Jamal Reynolds he was all-pro.
If McClellin had been a Viking they probably would have retired his number for the one sack of Rodgers.
Yeah, he did injure Rodgers, didn’t he?
First broken collarbone. Was at the game and the following games with the clown show of backup QB's until they went back to Flynn.
At least that year Rodgers got his revenge at Soldier Field!
From the team: @Showtyme_33 became just the second player in NFL history to have 3,000 rushing yards and 35 TDs and average 5.0 yards per carry over his first four seasons in the league, joining Jim Brown.
— Zach Kruse (@zachkruse2) January 4, 2021