Aaron Rodgers traded to the NY Jets

@PackLandVA posted:

Lots of hand wringing about AR’s comment about winning another MVP, instead of talking about winning another SB. I didn’t listen/watch the interview, but I’m guessing his comment is being isolated and taken out of context a bit. He did not have an MVP worthy season in 2022.  I’d imagine he’s signaling that he believes he can definitely perform at an MVP level next year. And with that type of performance, the Packers odds of winning the SB increase significantly.  Like him or not, I think trying to win games and the SB are very important to him.

Everything he says gets twisted. It was not like it has been made to be. He was asked if he felt he could play at a high level. Not if he thought the Packers could win the Super Bowl. Haters gonna hate.....

@Chongo posted:

He’ll always be Jake Kincaid to me…

Did I see the former *Parker Williams* in that clip?

@bvan posted:

LMAO, aka Alan Autry & Bubba Skinner, and the mayor of Fresno CA.

I knew that about him. My reference was as a NFL QB. 

@FLPACKER posted:

IMHO upgrading the TE and WR [position groups doesn't necessarily mean that you can't keep Cobb, Tonyan, Lewis , and Lazard. NONE of these 4 are the current worst of their position group. Lewis & Tonyan are more valuable than Tyler Davis, and Cobb right now is the 4th best WR. So if the $ works why are you in a hurry to get rid of these guys? If Cobb was your 5th or 6th WR and Lewis was your 4th TE, those groups would be pretty solid.

Except Cobb and Lewis won't play at salary levels for 4th or 5th wr or TE, and the cap is already too tight because of 12 and 69.

@YATittle posted:

To Me, Tonyan should have helped us more in the red zone.

Only when Bakhtiari wasn't open.

@ammo posted:

I knew that about him. My reference was as a NFL QB. 

Played 3 games I think...

@Floridarob posted:

Everything he says gets twisted. It was not like it has been made to be. He was asked if he felt he could play at a high level. Not if he thought the Packers could win the Super Bowl. Haters gonna hate.....

And Lovers gonna love.......

I don't Hate. He is just done. Playing just like the former QB in his old age.

@vitaflo posted:

Of course he has leverage, he can sit out.  If packers take his 5th year option he has even more leverage cuz GB is on the hook to pay him.  It's not different than any player who isn't happy with their situation.  Even if he decided to continue holding a clipboard, if they Packers keep screwing with him, he's not sticking around when his contract is up.

I honestly think part of the reason Adams left and why Lazard is saying he's gone is because the Packers dilly-dallied on a new contract for too long and they got fed up with it. Love could easily fall into the same boat.

Nope, don't think that was it.

bvan, I found several references that Brown actually played in 13 games in both 1975 and '76. He had 3 starts in '76 losing all 3.  I couldn't find if he was a holder for kicks or something that he played in that many games. 

@ammo posted:

bvan, I found several references that Brown actually played in 13 games in both 1975 and '76. He had 3 starts in '76 losing all 3.  I couldn't find if he was a holder for kicks or something that he played in that many games.

OK, the 3 starts was what I was thinking of.

@Chongo posted:

They are his friends...WTF is he going to say other than he wants them back?

Tonyan was coming off ACL...as sub-par as he was, he's still best TE on the team. Lewis is a side-car OT on his best day. Bakhtiari is coming back...the last half of the season he looked like an All Pro again. Packers hold the cards really...the cap sitch is what it is...if 12 doesn't like the cuts they make, take the trade or retire.

If the Packers believe the reason for 12's poor performance was mostly rookie WR, a mostly terrible OL and a broken thumb, he will be back. If they think he's done-zo, they will trade him, eat the dead cap this season and let the Love era begin.

You people are making this way more complicated than it needs to be.

Lewis does not get near the credit he deserves around here . Yea he is about   ready to hang'em up but I bet he could even beat the odds and go one more year. He is a BAD man. Agree on Bakhtari another BAD man.  Rodgers did have a bad rib,bad thumb,bad o-line alot of times but I bet he still has some BAD left in him. And Tonyan, I think he will definitley be his "Old" BAD self next year. Whole lot of BAD in the post but not in the same context.     

@The Grinder posted:

Lewis does not get near the credit he deserves around here . Yea he is about   ready to hang'em up but I bet he could even beat the odds and go one more year. He is a BAD man. Agree on Bakhtari another BAD man.  Rodgers did have a bad rib,bad thumb,bad o-line alot of times but I bet he still has some BAD left in him. And Tonyan, I think he will definitley be his "Old" BAD self next year. Whole lot of BAD in the post but not in the same context.     

If I’m not mistaken all those bad me were on a under 500 team.

@Pikes Peak posted:

If I’m not mistaken all those bad me were on a under 500 team.

The majority were banged up most of the year though, thats all I got.   

@packerboi posted:

Rodgers has had this team by the balls for years now. MLF is not running the offense he really wants and Rodgers is more than content playing hero ball and placing the spotlight on him.

That too starts with Gute and MLF and probably Murphy as well. They have allowed one dude to run the fuckin' show and put them in cap hell. They absolutely should take blame for that.

I'm calling bullshit on this nonsense. MLF not running the offense he wants? That makes no sense. Let's see, guy from the same system tree Kevin O'Connell just said in his press conference that Kirk Cousins only ran about 1/3 of the plays as called this season and adjustments were made on most.

The offense is a basic structure as designed by the coaching staff. Defensive coordinators are paid well to fuck your shit up. That's why teams like veteran QBs who can recognize shenanigans and not run into the teeth of the defense.

They also modify it to the players, or at least they should. Don't want your QB throwing hero balls? Then why the fuck does Fredokunst always draft hero ball receivers? Moore, ESB, MVS, Watson, Doubs, Toure all had the rep of being tall, deep threats with questionable hands.

Where did all the motion go? When you're counting on major snaps from raw rookie receivers who are struggling to even run the right patterns or the ones they know correctly, do you try to add in scads of motion concepts just to ensure they fuck up even more? No, you try to function with what you have.

More "power running" you say? The line couldn't do shit most of the season, and it really showed with Dillon more than Jones. It wasn't hard to stop the running game when there wasn't a receiver to make you pay consistently, either.

The offense was a mess this season, and it starts with the guy whose job it was to get talent for that unit. He hasn't done a very good job of that. The only above-average offensive starter he's drafted is a left guard. That's not good enough.

@bvan posted:

Played 3 games I think...

That dude is the spitting image of Alan Autry

Pretty worn out with the Friday night supper club bunch. There's so much fawning over spectacular blocks on 89 yard drives that take 13 plays to move the ball down the field and then end up in 3 points or the defense plodding their way onto the field after 4th and short fails because they had so much confidence in the offense's bully game they went for it more than they should have and converted it less than they should have.

They need to concentrate on the oline doing the blocking and finding skilled players with actual skills that cause problems for the defense. Get guys that make a contested catch or use their athleticism to get open and then get yards after the catch.

If the blocking is so wonderful why is captain coconut continually chucking 35 yard down-field wobblers 10 yards away from anyone with a helmet on when they only needed four feet for a 1st down? Why are we seemingly in shotgun so much in short yardage situations when we have these blocking weapons?

...

I feel pretty certain all this settling the emotions b***s**t is just 12 giving his agent time to low key shop around his options from other teams. It's the way the game is played.

The Packers have their interests as well. I'm sure MLF wants him back. Gute would be more than happy to turn the page and build a team around Love. Meanwhile Murphy has all the GB business interests from the board wanting 12 back while he's thinking about the rest of his time as President like a police officer in a movie two weeks away from his retirement. It's a mess and there's no owner around to set a clear path forward.

There's too many disparate interests that have absolutely nothing to do with winning a championship and that means that as hard as it is to win a championship, it's that much harder from inside the walls of 1265 for the foreseeable future.

...

Should also be said that Jordan Love has so far handled the entire situation admirably. I don't know if he can overcome all the on field decisions and reactions that amount to NFL success, but there's a lot of people in his position and at his age that wouldn't have handled the start of their career as maturely as he has. He's an easy person to root for so far and I hope he finds success, preferably as a Packer.

@The Heckler posted:

So if it comes down to Rodgers wanting out of GB and wants a trade what team would give him a shot at winning an MVP ? ...

IF Rodgers somehow gets traded, for him to have any chance at success, it would have to be with a team that has a young, stout, established OL that likely will retain a majority of those players for at least a year. Maybe 2.

That would rule out the Colts and Texans for sure.
It would make the Ravens and Broncos scenarios more interesting.
The Raiders graded well for both pass/run blocking, but I thought their OL was a factor in Carr's (poor) performance?

Reading through the comments regarding the TEs in Green Bay reminded me that no matter what the role of TEs are in MLF's offense, they must be a RZ target, especially in goal-to-go situations.
Having a big body that can use it to 'block out' opposing LBs and DBs (and catch the damn ball!) is something sorely missing, IMHO.

"The one guy I’d be following is Adam Thielen.  He’ll be 33 next season, but he’s a reliable guy that can still give you 50-60 catches a year and is a good safety valve for the QB.  He’s likely going to be a cap casualty for the Vikings."

Just because we traded places, record wise, with the vikings, doesn't mean we should go after former and cap casualty vikings like the vikings have done with former GB players. I think Thielen is slow and not worth the effort it would take to bring him here. We might as well keep Cobb! I'd much rather see Lazard back in G&G, than to see Gute sign any former viking to our squad.

@YooperPackfan posted:

That dude is the spitting image of Alan Autry

Played like Gene

@FLPACKER posted:

He was directly asked "do you think you can still play at a high level"? He responded with the "I feel I could win another MVP"comment, it was his way of saying "I think I could play as well as I did in 2020 / 21" He also said “Because there’s no point in coming back if you don’t think you can win it all.” ...which Gronk and bunch of other idiots conveniently fail to mention when saying AR should be talking about SBs not MVPs.

You just called half the board idiots.  

I like your style.

@titmfatied posted:

Pretty worn out with the Friday night supper club bunch. There's so much fawning over spectacular blocks on 89 yard drives that take 13 plays to move the ball down the field and then end up in 3 points or the defense plodding their way onto the field after 4th and short fails because they had so much confidence in the offense's bully game they went for it more than they should have and converted it less than they should have.

They need to concentrate on the oline doing the blocking and finding skilled players with actual skills that cause problems for the defense. Get guys that make a contested catch or use their athleticism to get open and then get yards after the catch.

If the blocking is so wonderful why is captain coconut continually chucking 35 yard down-field wobblers 10 yards away from anyone with a helmet on when they only needed four feet for a 1st down? Why are we seemingly in shotgun so much in short yardage situations when we have these blocking weapons?

...

I feel pretty certain all this settling the emotions b***s**t is just 12 giving his agent time to low key shop around his options from other teams. It's the way the game is played.

The Packers have their interests as well. I'm sure MLF wants him back. Gute would be more than happy to turn the page and build a team around Love. Meanwhile Murphy has all the GB business interests from the board wanting 12 back while he's thinking about the rest of his time as President like a police officer in a movie two weeks away from his retirement. It's a mess and there's no owner around to set a clear path forward.

There's too many disparate interests that have absolutely nothing to do with winning a championship and that means that as hard as it is to win a championship, it's that much harder from inside the walls of 1265 for the foreseeable future.

...

Should also be said that Jordan Love has so far handled the entire situation admirably. I don't know if he can overcome all the on field decisions and reactions that amount to NFL success, but there's a lot of people in his position and at his age that wouldn't have handled the start of their career as maturely as he has. He's an easy person to root for so far and I hope he finds success, preferably as a Packer.

You need to post here more often.

I don't particularly care what 12 wants in regards to his buddies returning nor should Gute.  Crosby is done.  Tonyan is a decent #2 if the price is right.  Big Dog can block well still.  Cobb is a shell of himself.  Bak is still a beast and I'd be fine if he was the only one returning out of that group.

@Pakrz posted:

You just called half the board idiots.  

I like your style.

Should have been idots!

@FinnLander posted:

Nope, don't think that was it.

Yes I do think that was it.

Packers had contract talks with him before the 2021 season and they low balled him.  He got frustrated and it was only at the last minute that the Packers "offered more" than the Raiders.  But the bridges were already burned.

@Pakrz posted:

I don't particularly care what 12 wants in regards to his buddies returning nor should Gute.  Crosby is done.  Tonyan is a decent #2 if the price is right.  Big Dog can block well still.  Cobb is a shell of himself.  Bak is still a beast and I'd be fine if he was the only one returning out of that group.

People assume if Gurt makes a decision that looks like it's a concession to 12, then it is.

Maybe Gurt is just bad at making some decisions...like hanging on to Lancaster, Lowery, Jason Spriggs, etc.

They will renew Tonyan if it's for a reasonable fee, and if they believe he is more likely to be 2021 Big Bob vs. 2022 Big Bob...if he takes $4M or less, he will likely be back.

Marcedes is a really good blocker and can catch a pass now and again. He is under contract for sub $3M...the Packers only save $1M if they cut him. If he wants to be back, he will be back...he fits his role in a position that doesn't need to deliver more than it needs to do. He's a locker room leader also. The defense could use some dudes like him.

Cobb I don't see coming back...he takes up a roster spot for one that needs production. You're better off filling his spot with an UDFA that has 4.4 speed and can do things on ST.

Crosby is at the point in his career that he has a few years left where he keeps in shape, and teams sign him to fill in for an injured starter or someone that has the yips. He costs you about $1M a year...The Packers may be OK with that...letting him ride into the sunset. How often do you attempt anything more than 54 yards out? Not very. He's pretty much nails from 52 in. Maybe you sign a punter than can handle KO duty. Right now they paid a premium for a P who is a really good holder and that's about it. He's not terrible, but not worth being a top 10 paid at the position.

But the difficulty with K/P is that drafting one is probably the biggest crapshoot of any position. You look at the top 10 K and P, most of them were undrafted. And a lot of the elite ones bounced from team to team until finding their groove. I'm guess Crosby comes back, and they stash a kid on the practice squad to develop.

Bakh will be back, because at the very least they will want to get some value for a guy they got zero value for for 2 years of the contract essentially.

@Pakrz posted:

You just called half the board idiots.  

I like your style.

The other half are Eeyores.

@FLPACKER posted:

He was directly asked "do you think you can still play at a high level"? He responded with the "I feel I could win another MVP"comment, it was his way of saying "I think I could play as well as I did in 2020 / 21" He also said “Because there’s no point in coming back if you don’t think you can win it all.” ...which Gronk and bunch of other idiots conveniently fail to mention when saying AR should be talking about SBs not MVPs.

Yah. I have seen too much parsing of Rodgers comments. https://www.si.com/nfl/packers...stupid-out-of-people

Gute can trade Rodgers for conditional picks, he doesn't need Rodgers' permission.  Trade him to the Colts for a 7th rounder that becomes a 1st if Rodgers reports for camp.  The important thing is getting rid of Rodgers' guaranteed contract, not the picks.  If Rodgers doesn't want to go to the Colts, he can retire - Packers still get out from under the guaranteed salary.  Colts roll the dice on a HOF QB for a season with just a 7th rounder.  Rodgers' feelings don't come into play.  This is what 99% of the NFL players deal with.  Rodgers is now part of that 99%.  Sorry dude.

@Herschel posted:

I'm calling bullshit on this nonsense. MLF not running the offense he wants? That makes no sense.

Then you haven't been paying attention on what this offense looked like in 2020 vs now. Because it's a shell of itself.

In that year, you had dudes like Tyler Irvin doing a lot of preset motions along with Aaron Jones. It was a shame Irvin didn't stay healthy but let's not pretend he was some generational talent that the Packers couldn't run that same offense in '21 with another player.     

Last year, knowing full well that Adams was going to be a FA, Rodgers force fed him the football at least in part, to pad the hell out of Adams stats which equates to more $$ when he hits FA. To the point where on plenty all-22 film, Rodgers had wide open guys he simply ignored or decided playing hero ball was more interesting. The schemes MLF designed worked fine. Rodgers just ignored those open guys for whatever reason.

This year, absolutely no arguments the talent on the offense was woefully bad and yes, that's absolutely on Gute. But that was a key reason to use AJ Dillon and Jones far more than they did. 6, count them, 6!! fucking times Aaron Jones this season ran the ball under 10 times including one game where he had a pathetic 5 attempts.

He's one of the most talented players on this team, Hell in football when you also consider he's a terrific pass catching back. But there too, he was a 2nd thought at best in too many games.

Shanahan is a much better play caller than MLF but look at the slew of injuries he seemingly has year in and out. It doesn't matter. He sticks with his core offenses, creates high percentage passes, and schemes his players open.

MLF could do that. But I think his fear of pissing off Lord Rodgers is simply too much and he won't do it and gives Rodgers TOO much freedom in this offense. This year we saw that when the Packers RTFB and plodded down the field those drives worked. We're they pretty? No. Would it earn Rodgers MVP stats and make the 4 letter network highlights? No. But it would have kept our underperforming defense off the fucking field, sucked up a ton of playclock, and probably changed the outcome of a couple of games.

@ammo posted:

bvan, I found several references that Brown actually played in 13 games in both 1975 and '76. He had 3 starts in '76 losing all 3.  I couldn't find if he was a holder for kicks or something that he played in that many games.

Of all the crappiness at QB we endured as Packers fans in the 70s and 80s that is one name I honestly have never heard of before.  Well it could have been that I was only 9 years old and trying not to watch the putrid teams back then.

I think Thielen is actually older than Cobb yet he’s far more productive than RC.    He’s a lot more expensive, but if the Vikings release him he’d be worth a look especially if Lazard doesn’t return.

I think we can survive Cobb’s 2-3 catches a game.  

Would you bring back Lazard over Thielen?  I would if the cost is the same.   They will provide similar production but Lazard is younger.

But if you were to ask me if I’d prefer Thielen over Cobb?  That’s easy.  Thielen is a much better player.

i would take Lazard over Theilen if the money is equal. Lazard may drop a pass or two but nobody in the league blocks better than him. And he probably makes teh most contested catches on the team. Theilen over Cobb tho for sure.

@Pakrz posted:

You just called half the board idiots.  

I like your style.

I’ll freely admit to being an idiot, but definitely not a Gronk level idiot. Dude does insurance commercials where he’s supposed to be an idiot and he can’t even pull that off well…..and that should definitely be in his wheelhouse.

Looks like a geneous to me

He could always join the military and get that USAA deal.

@Pikes Peak posted:

Looks like a geneous to me

A geneous wouldn’t be running away from all those womens.

@packerboi posted:

Then you haven't been paying attention on what this offense looked like in 2020 vs now. Because it's a shell of itself.

In that year, you had dudes like Tyler Irvin doing a lot of preset motions along with Aaron Jones. It was a shame Irvin didn't stay healthy but let's not pretend he was some generational talent that the Packers couldn't run that same offense in '21 with another player.     

Last year, knowing full well that Adams was going to be a FA, Rodgers force fed him the football at least in part, to pad the hell out of Adams stats which equates to more $$ when he hits FA. To the point where on plenty all-22 film, Rodgers had wide open guys he simply ignored or decided playing hero ball was more interesting. The schemes MLF designed worked fine. Rodgers just ignored those open guys for whatever reason.

Not that I don't agree with the rest of what you said, but I agree that the offense that was run this year and even most of last year is not what we saw the first year. There used to be guys running all over pre-snap and someone often in motion at the snap; now, it looks a lot more like MM's offense where guys went only on the snap and tried to beat their man. Once in a while this year, they had Watson motion, but not enough to really fool anyone.

As for Jones, his rushing attempts were so up and down (in order and whether W or L): 5L, 15W, 12W, 16W (OT), 13L, 9L, 8L, 20L, 9L, 24W (OT), 12L, 12L, 9W, 17W, 6W, 14W, 12L. When I plug that into my basics of math, I come up with 14.1 average carries in wins; 8.88 in losses. But, if you take out the two OT games, the carries-in-wins average drops to 9.1 per game.

What I think it really boils down to is who is actually calling the plays: Rodgers or MLF? If Cousins changed up to 80% of the calls, what percentage did Rodgers change? And why does he change them -- if he does? He mentioned in the Det game that he wasn't happy with the playcalls at the end, so did he run them to throw MLF under the bus, or did he change them and they didn't work so then he implicates MLF?

At this point, I think Rodgers is more comfortable with a more stationary offense where he can, as some say, play hero ball rather than all the motion and shorter throws. My evidence for that is how he always waits until the play clock is at 0 before calling for the snap. Doing that while running a motion offense is so much harder for timing purposes. (And I am so sick of his running down the clock as it is so much harder for the line to block since the D can tee off.) I also think he is slowing down as far as reading the field and a motion offense means decisions must also be made quicker.

In short, I'd like to see a return to the MLF offense, and I'd like to see Love running it.

@Fandame posted:

In short, I'd like to see a return to the MLF offense, and I'd like to see Love running it.

At this stage of both their careers, Love has better mobility and can make plays with his feet and run for first downs. Rodgers has little interest in doing that anymore and DC's know that.

Rodgers also made his HOF career doing so much "off schedule" stuff. Escaping pressure and the pocket, rolling right or left, and firing lasers downfield with pinpoint accuracy. Defenses could not plan for that and it frustrated the hell out of them. Rodgers these days doesn't have that escapibility/athleticism like he did even a few years ago.   

@Chongo posted:

I'm guess Crosby comes back, and they stash a kid on the practice squad to develop.

They toyed around with that Ramiz Ahmed kid last year on the practice squad.
It's hard to find much about his time with the Packers on the innerwebs, but I think I remember he's supposed to have a big leg, but had some accuracy problems.
If memory is still serving, I think he had 2 different injuries he had to deal with, though; like a knee or ankle early (maybe during TC?), then the supposed hammy before the last Vikes game.