Aaron Rodgers traded to the NY Jets

We all know Rodgers can be a complicated fella, but the vibe I got from him on McAfee is that he’s going to want assurances that his “buddies” will return in 2023 for him to stay.  That means Cobb and Tonyan and Bak and Big Dog and Crosby for starters, and might also include guys like Lazard and Jones as well.

I’m all in favor of Bak and Jones coming back, albeit they may need to rework both of their deals.  I don’t think Lazard will be back.  Some team will offer him a modest contract and I don’t see GB matching it.  Cobb and Big Dog are done.  Crosby should be done.  Tonyan clearly isn’t the same explosive guy post ACL, so he should be done unless he comes back on a short term inexpensive deal.  

The one guy I’d be following is Adam Thielen.  He’ll be 33 next season, but he’s a reliable guy that can still give you 50-60 catches a year and is a good safety valve for the QB.  He’s likely going to be a cap casualty for the Vikings.

I’m no GM but I think it’s a pretty safe assumption that SB winning teams do whatever they can to fill their rosters with the best players they can afford. Cobb, Lewis, Tonyan and Crosby are four roster spots that need to be upgraded…..MAYBE Crosby can be a solid FG guy for another season, but his kickoffs have been a liability for several years now.

Does AR want to win another SB or does he want to play with his buddies?

I could understand keeping Cobb and maybe Lewis for their veteran leadership IF the other WRs and TEs were solid, but they’re not.  Watson has tremendous upside, but he needs to prove that he can stay on the field.

@bdplant posted:

I’m no GM but I think it’s a pretty safe assumption that SB winning teams do whatever they can to fill their rosters with the best players they can afford. Cobb, Lewis, Tonyan and Crosby are four roster spots that need to be upgraded…..MAYBE Crosby can be a solid FG guy for another season, but his kickoffs have been a liability for several years now.

Does AR want to win another SB or does he want to play with his buddies?

I could understand keeping Cobb and maybe Lewis for their veteran leadership IF the other WRs and TEs were solid, but they’re not.  Watson has tremendous upside, but he needs to prove that he can stay on the field.

Disagree on Tonyan. He is the best TE we have had since Jared Cook and although he is not a superstar, he is a good player and I think it's worth retaining him to see how he does another year removed from his injury. I'm hoping he might return to his old form in 2023. I just hate to give up on him too soon as this FO has done a dreadful job of finding talent at the TE position.

@PackLandVA posted:

Love doesn’t have a choice. He can demand all he wants to but he has zero leverage. And if AR comes back, Love won’t be sitting on the bench.  He’ll be standing on the sidelines holding a clipboard.

Of course he has leverage, he can sit out.  If packers take his 5th year option he has even more leverage cuz GB is on the hook to pay him.  It's not different than any player who isn't happy with their situation.  Even if he decided to continue holding a clipboard, if they Packers keep screwing with him, he's not sticking around when his contract is up.

I honestly think part of the reason Adams left and why Lazard is saying he's gone is because the Packers dilly-dallied on a new contract for too long and they got fed up with it.  Love could easily fall into the same boat.

@bdplant posted:

Does AR want to win another SB or does he want to play with his buddies?

I could understand keeping Cobb and maybe Lewis for their veteran leadership IF the other WRs and TEs were solid, but they’re not.

If they want Cobb and Lewis for their leadership, sign them as assistant coaches.  They don't need to be on the field taking up cap space for that.

@13X posted:

Disagree on Tonyan. He is the best TE we have had since Jared Cook and although he is not a superstar, he is a good player and I think it's worth retaining him to see how he does another year removed from his injury. I'm hoping he might return to his old form in 2023. I just hate to give up on him too soon as this FO has done a dreadful job of finding talent at the TE position.

Good point. At least he has an upside. Cobb and Lewis aren’t going to get any better.

@Tschmack posted:

We all know Rodgers can be a complicated fella, but the vibe I got from him on McAfee is that he’s going to want assurances that his “buddies” will return in 2023 for him to stay.  That means Cobb and Tonyan and Bak and Big Dog and Crosby for starters, and might also include guys like Lazard and Jones as well.

I’m all in favor of Bak and Jones coming back, albeit they may need to rework both of their deals.  I don’t think Lazard will be back.  Some team will offer him a modest contract and I don’t see GB matching it.  Cobb and Big Dog are done.  Crosby should be done.  Tonyan clearly isn’t the same explosive guy post ACL, so he should be done unless he comes back on a short term inexpensive deal.  

The one guy I’d be following is Adam Thielen.  He’ll be 33 next season, but he’s a reliable guy that can still give you 50-60 catches a year and is a good safety valve for the QB.  He’s likely going to be a cap casualty for the Vikings.

While I do think Thielen would be a decent pickup, I'm not sure I could stomach his constant whining and theatrics every week. Has there ever been a player that whined and complained more than Thielen to try to draw PI flags on the defense? I swear he whines for a flag about 90% of the time when he doesn't catch the ball.

@13X posted:

While I do think Thielen would be a decent pickup, I'm not sure I could stomach his constant whining and theatrics every week. Has there ever been a player that whined and complained more than Thielen to try to draw PI flags on the defense? I swear he whines for a flag about 90% of the time when he doesn't catch the ball.

He should play soccer.

IMHO upgrading the TE and WR [position groups doesn't necessarily mean that you can't keep Cobb, Tonyan, Lewis , and Lazard. NONE of these 4 are the current worst of their position group. Lewis & Tonyan are more valuable than Tyler Davis, and Cobb right now is the 4th best WR. So if the $ works why are you in a hurry to get rid of these guys? If Cobb was your 5th or 6th WR and Lewis was your 4th TE, those groups would be pretty solid.

@13X posted:

Disagree on Tonyan. He is the best TE we have had since Jared Cook and although he is not a superstar, he is a good player and I think it's worth retaining him to see how he does another year removed from his injury. I'm hoping he might return to his old form in 2023. I just hate to give up on him too soon as this FO has done a dreadful job of finding talent at the TE position.

Weirdly, he did almost return to his old form this year if you look at the stats.  He just didn't have nearly as many TDs.  In 2020 he had 52 catches.  2022 he had 53 catches.

I think we keep talking about him "returning to form" because in 2020 he had 11 TDs and in 2022 he only had 2.  But his production outside of TDs was somewhat similar.

As it is, in both seasons he was in the mid to lower half of the NFL in receptions and yards.  He's a good player but he's not elite.  Whether we sign him will totally depend on how much he wants and what other teams would sign him for.

@FLPACKER posted:

IMHO upgrading the TE and WR [position groups doesn't necessarily mean that you can't keep Cobb, Tonyan, Lewis , and Lazard. NONE of these 4 are the current worst of their position group. Lewis & Tonyan are more valuable than Tyler Davis, and Cobb right now is the 4th best WR. So if the $ works why are you in a hurry to get rid of these guys? If Cobb was your 5th or 6th WR and Lewis was your 4th TE, those groups would be pretty solid.

Because they take a roster spot from a younger player that could have more upside.  Lewis had 6 catches last year.  Six!  If you want a blocker, put an extra lineman in.  If Cobb is your 4th that means Toure or some other rookie we draft or a WR we sign isn't.  Cobb has a ceiling that is only going to get lower.

@vitaflo posted:

Because they take a roster spot from a younger player that could have more upside.  Lewis had 6 catches last year.  Six!  If you want a blocker, put an extra lineman in.  If Cobb is your 4th that means Toure or some other rookie we draft or a WR we sign isn't.  Cobb has a ceiling that is only going to get lower.

So they’re paying a guy $58 million to come back next season but that guy may not want to come back unless they resign a guy who had six catches last season?

Love time.

@vitaflo posted:

Weirdly, he did almost return to his old form this year if you look at the stats.  He just didn't have nearly as many TDs.  In 2020 he had 52 catches.  2022 he had 53 catches.

I think we keep talking about him "returning to form" because in 2020 he had 11 TDs and in 2022 he only had 2.  But his production outside of TDs was somewhat similar.

As it is, in both seasons he was in the mid to lower half of the NFL in receptions and yards.  He's a good player but he's not elite.  Whether we sign him will totally depend on how much he wants and what other teams would sign him for.

Interesting. Good info! I would have never guessed that

To Me, Tonyan should have helped us more in the red zone.

Re: Tonyan, it's a case of "if he was healthy would MLF use him more, or did he get used the way MLF wants to use a TE?" Once you have that answer, then you figure out what to do with Tonyan.

Re: Rodgers. He is going to blackmail the FO. "If I'm going to come back, I need Lewis, Cobb, Mason, and Bak; if I don't get them, I won't return." I can see how he may use this in the media through his cryptic comments to either get it to happen through the fans/sports writers so that "the gang" is back or to rile everyone up if he decides to leave or retire. Same ol' tired schtick.

@The Heckler posted:

So if it comes down to Rodgers wanting out of GB and wants a trade what team would give him a shot at winning an MVP ?  And I find it interesting he mentions MVP and not Super Bowl.  One thing I do not know does #12 have a no trade clause or a no trade clause to certain teams?

Per Rodgers yesterday, he does not have a no trade clause in his contract. But at the same time, Rodgers won't play for any team that he doesn't want to play for.  And the Packers know this.

This is essentially the bottom line:

Rodgers mentioned Marcedes Lewis, Randall Cobb, Allen Lazard, Robert Tonyan, and David Bakhtiari as players he wants back if he returns for another season. Basically, he wants to hang out with his buddies and be paid $58 million.

— Michael Rodney (@PackersNotes) January 17, 2023

None of these guys except a healthy Bakh will propel the Packers to another Super Bowl, These are his aging friends on the downside of their careers who are overpaid and under produce. That's not what matters to AR. He's about him, he's about grabbing another attention seeking MVP to put the spotlight on him. Super Bowl? Guaranteed that's not even close to a primary goal.

I'll give you 58 million reasons why he's not thinking SB. Or he'd be re-working his contract to actually bring real contributors in to make it happen:

BuT iT’S tHe MeDiA https://t.co/dXazUTt6bf

— Peter Bukowski (@Peter_Bukowski) January 18, 2023

Again, the Packers hold all the cards. There will be no "holding hostage." 12 got his bag of loot. Gurt is in charge of building the roster with cap restraints. If 12 doesn't like it, tough shit. Ask for a trade or retire.

And let's not pretend Gurt has done a bang up job building the roster in his own. He was whiffing on draft picks and FA long before we were in a bad cap sitch.

Here's a thought...instead of blaming the MVP QB for all the teams problems, how about we put the bulk on the GM who can't seem to hit on a 3rd round pick and seemed to think it was a great idea to give 12 the ironclad deal as well as pick up the 5th year option on Savage. Or how about some blame for the HC who refuses to fire bad assistant coaches? Or the king of the silos who seems to enjoy his lack of accountability model?

@packerboi posted:

Per Rodgers yesterday, he does not have a no trade clause in his contract. But at the same time, Rodgers won't play for any team that he doesn't want to play for.  And the Packers know this.

This is essentially the bottom line:

Rodgers mentioned Marcedes Lewis, Randall Cobb, Allen Lazard, Robert Tonyan, and David Bakhtiari as players he wants back if he returns for another season. Basically, he wants to hang out with his buddies and be paid $58 million.

— Michael Rodney (@PackersNotes) January 17, 2023

None of these guys except a healthy Bakh will propel the Packers to another Super Bowl, These are his aging friends on the downside of their careers who are overpaid and under produce. That's not what matters to AR. He's about him, he's about grabbing another attention seeking MVP to put the spotlight on him. Super Bowl? Guaranteed that's not even close to a primary goal.

I still think Tonyan could be a significant contributor even if he's the #2 TE after bringing in some new blood. Degaura and Davis are wasted roster spots so we literally have nothing if Tonyan leaves at the TE position.

Packers have not had a great Tight end since Keith Jacksons brief stay. Jermichael was good for about six games before he got hurt. Rodgers has never had a great Tight end. Mahomes has Kelce, Brady had Gronk, hell even Purdy has Kittle. What would a great TE have done for the Rodgers over the past 15 years. The Packers have done AR a huge disservice with how they built the team. Poor defense and poor TEs. Incompetence from management.

@Chongo posted:

Here's a thought...instead of blaming the MVP QB for all the teams problems, how about we put the bulk on the GM who can't seem to hit on a 3rd round pick and seemed to think it was a great idea to give 12 the ironclad deal as well as pick up the 5th year option on Savage. Or how about some blame for the HC who refuses to fire bad assistant coaches? Or the king of the silos who seems to enjoy his lack of accountability model?

Hard to argue any of the above. For Gute, it looks like he hit on a very strong draft in 2022. Walker, Wyatt, Tom, Watson, Doubs all have very bright futures and with a full offseason and some of these dudes in the weight room, they should really take a jump in '23.

No doubt if Gute hops in a time machine, he doesn't do this strange hold of a contract with Rodgers or picks up Savage's 5th. Rodgers has had this team by the balls for years now. MLF is not running the offense he really wants and Rodgers is more than content playing hero ball and placing the spotlight on him.

That too starts with Gute and MLF and probably Murphy as well. They have allowed one dude to run the fuckin' show and put them in cap hell. They absolutely should take blame for that.

But they can stop the bleeding here and now. Gute needs to grow a pair of balls back and tell Rodgers either he retires or they are moving on and he's getting traded. No, he won't get the Donkey's kings ransom they gave up. But there are owners who absolutely would want AR as their missing piece. Make it fuckin' happen and turn the page.

@Floridarob posted:

Packers have not had a great Tight end since Keith Jacksons brief stay. Jermichael was good for about six games before he got hurt. Rodgers has never had a great Tight end. Mahomes has Kelce, Brady had Gronk, hell even Purdy has Kittle. What would a great TE have done for the Rodgers over the past 15 years. The Packers have done AR a huge disservice with how they built the team. Poor defense and poor TEs. Incompetence from management.

Watch this. See also Cook's one year here. They are night and day from what he has now, but yes, Rodgers has had great TE play. 

https://www.si.com/nfl/packers...-with-different-team

The offense under AR has been at its best when we have a TE that can run and get YAC .... Tonyan was becoming that before injury.

@packerboi posted:

Hard to argue any of the above. For Gute, it looks like he hit on a very strong draft in 2022. Walker, Wyatt, Tom, Watson, Doubs all have very bright futures and with a full offseason and some of these dudes in the weight room, they should really take a jump in '23.

No doubt if Gute hops in a time machine, he doesn't do this strange hold of a contract with Rodgers or picks up Savage's 5th. Rodgers has had this team by the balls for years now. MLF is not running the offense he really wants and Rodgers is more than content playing hero ball and placing the spotlight on him.

That too starts with Gute and MLF and probably Murphy as well. They have allowed one dude to run the fuckin' show and put them in cap hell. They absolutely should take blame for that.

But they can stop the bleeding here and now. Gute needs to grow a pair of balls back and tell Rodgers either he retires or they are moving on and he's getting traded. No, he won't get the Donkey's kings ransom they gave up. But there are owners who absolutely would want AR as their missing piece. Make it fuckin' happen and turn the page.

       

There is a historical and distinct lack of balls from both the GM and HC. To expect them to sprout a meaty pair at this juncture is fools gold.

I still stand by the assertion if they thought 10 was only a marginally worse option than 12, they would have traded 12 already. While I do believe there was some fear of a bad PR move by moving on from 12 last year, I believe that was only part of the equation.

My brother and I were privileged enough to be at that playoff game in Arizona where JMike was unstoppable. We were right by the end zone where they grabbed ARod's mask and got the illegal game winning fumble in OT.

@Chongo posted:

Here's a thought...instead of blaming the MVP QB for all the teams problems, how about we put the bulk on the GM who can't seem to hit on a 3rd round pick and seemed to think it was a great idea to give 12 the ironclad deal as well as pick up the 5th year option on Savage. Or how about some blame for the HC who refuses to fire bad assistant coaches? Or the king of the silos who seems to enjoy his lack of accountability model?

The Packer FRONT OFFICE has avoided making the hard decisions for years.

Murph allowed Ted to drive the roster into the ground between 2015-2017 when, from all reports, Ted was not medically competent to perform his GM duties.

Murph suffered no consequences for, at best, his gross negligence.

Gute obviously wanted to move on from Rodge and thus devoted his 1st and 4th round 2020 picks on Rodge's successor. Fine. A plan was put in place.

But when Rodge played better in 2020, the FRONT OFFICE (likely more Murph than Gute) got down on its collective knees and begged Rodge to stay.

Then, after the 2021 season, the FRONT OFFICE (Gute & Murph) doubled down to prove their devotion to the soon to be 40 year old Rodge by unnecessarily bestowing a lucrative contract extension upon him.

The new contract was given despite the fact Davante Adams was not returning and despite the opportunity to trade Rodge for a King's ranmsom last offseason.

Almost exactly 2 years ago, Murph proudly proclaimed:

                       "We're not idiots. Aaron Rodgers will be back."

Wonder if some of the FRONT OFFICE loyalists are starting to question the first part of Murph's proclamation?

Trade the fucker for a case of Busch light Apple, if it gets us off the hook of the contract and salary cap hell

Jesus Fuck Gutendumdum.

Someone tell #12 he can't have his $50 million per season and his high priced, low achiever  friends too.  

It’s not the Green Bay 12s or 4s or any of those dipshits  

you drafted JLove   Sink or swim with him dipshit.

@Floridarob posted:

Even rodgers subpar 2022 season was better than anything we watched in the 70s and 80s. I don't know if his physical ability has declined that much but his decision making has gotten worse over the end of 21 and all 22. He reminds me of Favre at the end of his time in green bay.

It is a different game though. The NFL is very, very QB-friendly now. Very offensive-friendly.

@bdplant posted:

I’m no GM but I think it’s a pretty safe assumption that SB winning teams do whatever they can to fill their rosters with the best players they can afford. Cobb, Lewis, Tonyan and Crosby are four roster spots that need to be upgraded…..MAYBE Crosby can be a solid FG guy for another season, but his kickoffs have been a liability for several years now.

Does AR want to win another SB or does he want to play with his buddies?

I could understand keeping Cobb and maybe Lewis for their veteran leadership IF the other WRs and TEs were solid, but they’re not.  Watson has tremendous upside, but he needs to prove that he can stay on the field.

I think he made it clear that he wants another MVP, number 5, to match Peyton Manning.

@vitaflo posted:

Because they take a roster spot from a younger player that could have more upside.  Lewis had 6 catches last year.  Six!  If you want a blocker, put an extra lineman in.  If Cobb is your 4th that means Toure or some other rookie we draft or a WR we sign isn't.  Cobb has a ceiling that is only going to get lower.

Gute, make it the year with a breakthrough in the 3rd round.

But yeah, Cobb is past his sell-by date, and in 2023 he may be past his use-by date. Having said that, I'll give AR Cobb and Tonyan, but that's it.

@YATittle posted:

To Me, Tonyan should have helped us more in the red zone.

He wasn't up to speed on the 2022 hand signals?

@Fandame posted:

Re: Rodgers. He is going to blackmail the FO. "If I'm going to come back, I need Lewis, Cobb, Mason, and Bak; if I don't get them, I won't return." I can see how he may use this in the media through his cryptic comments to either get it to happen through the fans/sports writers so that "the gang" is back or to rile everyone up if he decides to leave or retire. Same ol' tired schtick.

He has already blackmailed the FO by saying that he doesn't want to be part of a rebuild (which apparently means not having his buddies playing).  So if he retires or asks for a trade, he's telling every other player in the league the Packers are rebuilding even tho they will have an extra $16m in salary cap to spend without him on the roster.

He's basically doing the equivalent of "sign my buddies or nobody in the league is going to want to come here because I said so".

@Floridarob posted:

Even rodgers subpar 2022 season was better than anything we watched in the 70s and 80s. I don't know if his physical ability has declined that much but his decision making has gotten worse over the end of 21 and all 22. He reminds me of Favre at the end of his time in green bay.

Do you mean just Packer QBs or the NFL in general?

Packers list:  1971 Bart Starr, arm was shot;  1971-73, Scott Hunter,  yeech; 1972-74 Jerry Tagge, never was a QB;  1974-75, John Hadl, washed up;  1975-76, Carlos Brown, WHO?;  1976-85, Lynn Dickey, often injured; 1977- 83, David Whitehurst, oh boy;  1984- 88, Randy Wright, homer pick. These were the main guys, quite a few more nobodies that played a game or 2.

@ammo posted:

1975-76, Carlos Brown, WHO?; 

LMAO, aka Alan Autry & Bubba Skinner, and the mayor of Fresno CA.

Lots of hand wringing about AR’s comment about winning another MVP, instead of talking about winning another SB. I didn’t listen/watch the interview, but I’m guessing his comment is being isolated and taken out of context a bit. He did not have an MVP worthy season in 2022.  I’d imagine he’s signaling that he believes he can definitely perform at an MVP level next year. And with that type of performance, the Packers odds of winning the SB increase significantly.  Like him or not, I think trying to win games and the SB are very important to him.

@bvan posted:

LMAO, aka Alan Autry & Bubba Skinner, and the mayor of Fresno CA.

He’ll always be Jake Kincaid to me…

@SteveLuke posted:

Wonder if some of the FRONT OFFICE loyalists are starting to question the first part of Murph's proclamation?

There are “front office loyalists?”

@PackLandVA posted:

Lots of hand wringing about AR’s comment about winning another MVP, instead of talking about winning another SB. I didn’t listen/watch the interview, but I’m guessing his comment is being isolated and taken out of context a bit. He did not have an MVP worthy season in 2022.  I’d imagine he’s signaling that he believes he can definitely perform at an MVP level next year. And with that type of performance, the Packers odds of winning the SB increase significantly.  Like him or not, I think trying to win games and the SB are very important to him.

He was directly asked "do you think you can still play at a high level"? He responded with the "I feel I could win another MVP"comment, it was his way of saying "I think I could play as well as I did in 2020 / 21" He also said “Because there’s no point in coming back if you don’t think you can win it all.” ...which Gronk and bunch of other idiots conveniently fail to mention when saying AR should be talking about SBs not MVPs.