This is about "equality"

Aaron knows exactly what he wants to say in public, and does it well.

Hungry5 posted:

I may regret this, and I know this will be a polarizing thread... but this is powerful IMO. 

link

"This is about equality," Rodgers said Tuesday. "This is about unity and love and growing together as a society and starting a conversation around something that may be a little bit uncomfortable for people. But we've got to come together and talk about these things and grow as a community, as a connected group of individuals in our society, and we're going to continue to show love and unity, and this week we're going to ask the fans to join in as well and come together and show people that we can be connected and we can grow together."

If this does go down a sh!t hole. I'll be more than happy to clean up the sh!t.

Like

No way Scoop would let anybody kneel in a thread. Just sayn'.

Geez, I know it's a mess up world, but it's a bit much to ask for Packer's and Bear's fans to lock arms in unity.

Lot of very intelligent insightful things have been said the past few days. Including the above by Rodgers. 

I'm partial to this and this. Did I take extra enjoyment out of "I served in the military in the Vietnam War. And my foot hurt too. But I served anyway"? Oh yes. Yes I did. 

Thats a particularly savage kind of flamethrowing. 

It shouldn't be a polarizing thread, IMO, H5. Tough to take issue with Aaron's position. I know the more I listen to and read different views I find my own thinking changes sometimes as well. And there are many values that we all could find common cause in without necessarily agreeing on specific issues.  

Edit: Great links, CJ. Pop continues to inspire. Very proud to share an alma mater with him.

Talkin2Phil posted:

Geez, I know it's a mess up world, but it's a bit much to ask for Packer's and Bear's fans to lock arms in unity.

Little too far. Kneel on a Bears fan? Better. 

I forget which player it was the other day that said (paraphrasing) I hope this isn't a 1-time thing. So, that's the next step for these athletes and the hollywood types. Keep it moving forward, and keep raising the awareness.

I actually appreciate the way the cowboys did it last night. Knelt for their protest before the anthem and then all stood for the anthem. I think if something similar was presented to fans the majority would participate. I am not going to protest anything during the anthem but would have no problem joining hands or kneeling prior to it. . The cowboys response would have been perfect if only Jerry Jones would have kept his ass in his box. Leave that moment for the players. 

The vast majority, save for a few hate groups, are for equality.  The problem with Rodgers statement is, in many peoples opinions, the roots of the protest are not based on examples of inequality.   The protest originally was about police treatment of minorities and some high profile cases and responses to those cases in particular.   

The problem, in my opinion, is that the left cites all these stats about minorities being targeted by police and they never ask why, just assume racist cops.  Yes, minorities are arrested and jailed at rates that far outnumber whites per capita.  Some argue that it's because minorities commit more violent crime per capita than other groups.  This is a fact.   So, yes race is a factor at this level, but it's racial profiling, not flat out racism YET.  When your city hires new police officers, where are they deployed to?   White suburbia or the inner city?  Why?  Because that is where the crimes are being committed. 

Of course you can't stop there if you really care about ever finding a solution.   You have to ask why are crimes being committed in these areas by this group at a higher level than any other group?     The answer is probably poverty.  Then you have to ask why does this group have higher poverty rates?   The answer is probably education.  So on and so on until you get to the answer of trying to recover from years of institutional racism and in some cases continued institutional racism. 

But that's not what Collin was kneeling over or what has been discussed in the media.  And that's not why Collin wore socks with pigs on them and so on.   So here we are. 

Plus, linking arms on kickoffs is illegal.

I wonder what Denny Green would think of all of this.

The President said yesterday that he did not bring up race and he has said many times he is not racist....linking arms will fix this how?

I've touched on this before. But I don't begin to envision anything is going to change anytime soon. There is so much cemented underground racism in this country. Some of it is cloaked better than most. But a quick spin around Twitter and Facebook and the level of racism that exists in the country is astounding in 2017. 

I firmly believe that kids between 12 and 19 today are going to be the gateway to actual change. They have real conversation about incredibly uncomfortable topics the way most of us talked about baseball cards and vinyl albums 30-40 years ago. The kids today aren't afraid of conversations about race and sexual orientation and bullying and equality. They have them every day and they don't leave anything unsaid. Talk to this age group long enough and you'll find that they view the majority of people between 45 and 65 as a bunch of closet cavemen that are living everyday life in the dark age. They're not entirely wrong. 

Yes, the initial protest was about raising awareness to the inequality of police treatment of blacks, but it was rooted in equality/inequality. And yes, some high profile cases fueled this at that time. The events of this weekend and now ARs statement are in protest of our President calling players SOBs for kneeling. Trump likely does not really grasp this issue. The protests now ARE solely about equality. Just like the civil rights protests of the 60's were about equality.

If the players continue to show the unity, they can effect change. 

"This is not something that I am going to run by anybody," he said. "I am not looking for approval. I have to stand up for people that are oppressed. ... If they take football away, my endorsements from me, I know that I stood up for what is right."

Dr._Bob posted:

Plus, linking arms on kickoffs is illegal.

Some types of flying wedges are better than others.

ChilliJon posted:

Talk to this age group long enough and you'll find that they view the majority of people between 45 and 65 as a bunch of closet cavemen that are living everyday life in the dark age. They're not entirely wrong. 

I'd get along better with that age group if they'd simply stay the Hell off my lawn.

The psychologists will be the real heroes in all of this..... I tell myself as I go to sleep each night.

To my football friends....

Pikes Peak posted:

The President said yesterday that he did not bring up race and he has said many times he is not racist....linking arms will fix this how?

 

Trump has said this is about respect for the US Flag and the US Military. That players are being disrespectful. 

Trump trashed a Gold Star Family that lost a son in battle. because they were Muslim. 

Trump dodged the draft 5 times. Bone spurs. But he's quick to tell you he's been perfectly healthy his entire life. 

Trump mocked John McCain because he was a POW. "I like soldiers that weren't captured" 

Trump is grandstanding. This is all about diverting attention away from what he's not getting accomplished. He's actually very good at it. At the absolute least it's another dog whistle to whip up the base  

Where he went wrong is when he called NFL Players trying to raise awareness Sons of Bitches that need to be fired. Not many things tighter than a 53 man roster. 

Chilli- this reminds me of the time you told me women shouldn't be allowed to drive.

Tavis Smiley posted:

"This is not something that I am going to run by anybody," he said. "I am not looking for approval. I have to stand up for people that are oppressed. ... If they take football away, my endorsements from me, I know that I stood up for what is right."

 

 

Mighty selfless of old ARod to be so vocal.

How might he survive on the $50,000,000+ he's made if "they take football away" from him?

In any event, with this brave move in the face of so much oppression, not to mention that SI cover, he'll certainly be the King of the Ball when he returns home to his Hollywood/So.Cal. crowd for good.

Just want to be sure if I've got ARod's directive right, no hand over the heart during the anthem and must instead link arms to prove we're worthy of ARod's respect, is that right?

The only head scratcher for me is, why it took so long for ARod to go public in the face of all the oppression he has been witnessing from so many bad people in America for all these years?

And I'm just wondering why he isn't a loyal enough teammate to advocate the crowd embrace M. Bennett's black-power salute? Should we all wear our cops are pigs socks as well?

<sigh>

SteveLuke posted:

 

Just want to be sure if I've got ARod's directive right, no hand over the heart during the anthem and must instead link arms to prove we're worthy of ARod's respect, is that right?

Not even close to what he said.

SteveLuke posted:
...

How might he survive on the $50,000,000+ he's made if "they take football away" from him?

He has enough self confidence now to make money in whatever...

Yup, talking and discussing will bring us all into one big happy family.  

SteveLuke posted:

 

The only head scratcher for me is, why it took so long for ARod to go public in the face of all the oppression he has been witnessing from so many bad people in America for all these years?

AR has gone public before in regard to oppression and disrespect. 

"I think he should be on a roster right now. I think because of his protests, he's not," Rodgers told ESPN The Magazine's Mina Kimes.

“I think it’s important to do things like [the moment of silence]. We’re a connected world, you know — six degrees of separation,” he said. “I must admit, though, I was very disappointed with whoever the fan was who made a comment that I thought was really inappropriate, during the moment of silence. It’s that kind of prejudicial ideology that I think puts us in the position that we’re in today, as a world.”

This is a good question though for a large majority of Americans. Why aren't you speaking up for your countrymen?

Are you the real Steve Luke?

Pikes Peak posted:

Yup, talking and discussing will bring us all into one big happy family.  

The "national conversation" means you shut up and listen.

Pikes Peak posted:

Yup, talking and discussing will bring us all into one big happy family.  

I want your constructive alternative. Otherwise I'd prefer you remain the norm. 

Sorry, but I have no constructive alternatives to add.   And from what I see there is no middle ground, just polar opposites and either one side or the other has to capitulate or we have to live with what we have.    That depresses me.

Worth the time IMO.

http://reason.com/blog/2017/09...trumpnfl-anthem-wars

Hungry5 posted:

This is a good question though for a large majority of Americans. Why aren't you speaking up for your countrymen?

OK I'll start, but in this case I'll start with my countrywomen.

I will speak up for Janay Roberts, Brandie Underwood, Amelia Molitor, Crystal Espinal, Kasandra Perkins, Nicole Holder, "Kendra," and the many, many other women who have been "oppressed" by NFL players. 

http://www.nydailynews.com/new...78?pmSlide=1.2426133

http://www.tmz.com/2016/12/28/...stic-violence-video/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_T7AqYSxZi0

When NFL players "protest" (not make feel good commercial to burnish their PR credentials but protest) the brutality so many of their brethren have inflicted upon so many women, I will certainly stand up and take notice.

Until then, I guess I'll just link arms during the anthem, and cheer wildly for Ahmad Brooks when he tackles Joe Mixon, Tyreek Hill, etc. 

Pikes Peak posted:

Yup, talking and discussing will bring us all into one big happy family.  

It'll get us closer, which is the goal.

OK, nobody will read my link.  I'm an idiot.  So, from the article:

It is immoral for government to dislodge private property owners and confiscate money from taxpayers so that rich men can get richer organizing a sport that scores of millions don't care one whit about. The more government puts its hands where it oughtn't, the more likely the resulting actions will offend your core values. Wanna really stick it to the NFL? Get the government out of its business.

The recipe for getting politics out of sports is not by bashing athletes' politics or demanding that they behave in some particularly political (or apolitical) way. It's by getting government out of wherever it doesn't belong, be it the stadium construction business or the definitionally divisive act of drawing precise boundaries over acceptably patriotic behavior. No politician, or government, deserves that authority, let alone respect.

Hungry5 posted:

Yes, the initial protest was about raising awareness to the inequality of police treatment of blacks, but it was rooted in equality/inequality. And yes, some high profile cases fueled this at that time. The events of this weekend and now ARs statement are in protest of our President calling players SOBs for kneeling. Trump likely does not really grasp this issue. The protests now ARE solely about equality. Just like the civil rights protests of the 60's were about equality.

If the players continue to show the unity, they can effect change. 

Sure.... for example, as they link arms in unity at the upcoming game, I wonder how many Bears players are out and about using their influence for change in the neighborhoods of Chicago where in the past 2 1/2 years over 1,000 people have been murdered and more than 10,000 shot and wounded.  (and, more than 85% of the victims and suspects were black.)   Lot of inequality in those stats......

I mean, why do "we" even have the song before sporting events?

I remember saying a "Hail Mary" before tip off, but, hey, my parents paid for that.

The NFL as we know it will probably never be the same.