I think I'm aroused - Be still my heart!
Green Bay isn't exactly the best place for a recovering alcoholic, but yes please!
Elliot Wolf had the worst job in the NFL. Pro Player Personnel under TT has to be maddening. Only those in the room know what his reports were and how good he was / is. Maybe he has an amazing track record of calling them right, maybe he doesn't. We don't know.
Same goes for Gute, except the worst job part. Point is, Murhpy, TT and the other execs know their job performance. We don't. The fact that Gute got the nod tells me his evaluations on collegiate players have been good. We don't know what players TT took his advice on and what ones he didn't. Hell, we don't even know how the system works. Is he reporting draft rankings or just position rankings? We have no ideal how TT developed their draft board. We just have to trust that Murphy wouldn't promote a scout with a poor track record.
Welp, this will be different:
Gutekunst says he will talk to press/fans more often than Ted Thompson. “I think I have a responsibility.” #Packers
— RichRymanPG (@RichRymanPG) January 8, 2018
I'd prefer he didn't but I understand the reasoning
BAM!!!
Brian Gutekunst's philosophy on free agency: "It's an absolute must as an accessory piece," but the foundation will still be through the draft. Rob Demovsky, ESPN Staff Writer
Herschel posted:Goalline posted:Lambeau Lobo posted:michiganjoe posted:Poor drafting, especially on the defensive side of the ball, was a bigger issue than TT's failure to adequately use FA, IMO. Seems to have done better of late but there's a stretch where the defensive drafting was very poor and it was evident on the field. Jerron McMillian went from a guy the organization envisioned opposite Burnett to a guy they felt couldn't even play in the league in less than a year.
That's true, but that also supports the point that many TT critics made: the draft is a crap shoot; you can't count on it as the sole method of building your team, because even the best have a large number of misses. On the other hand, when you acquire a player via free agency, it is more of a known commodity.
It is somewhat ironic that the franchise experienced a rebirth largely as a result of a key free agent acquisition (Reggie White) and a trade (Brett Favre), chose to generally avoid such means of building the roster over the past decade.
Free agency also a crap shoot. Lots of busts, only those busts are so expensive they destroy your cap.
Except they don't any more. The cap goes up enough and there are good-but-not-crushing salaries to be had. Good, solid contributors at reasonable prices are out there. None of the six teams with the most internal/"home grown" talent made the playoffs this year. When you have a hole to fill, you need to fill it with someone who can play and play now.
Weak use of stats. What part of the roster do these free agents occupy? The bottom or the top? Sorry, I’m giving no credit to the 3rd string fullback for leading his team to the playoffs.
At least, give me those stats based on the starters.
Most of the best teams in the league draw their best players from the draft and make judicious use of free agency.
The only reason teams have stopped going into cap he’ll is because they’ve become much smarter about free agency. The silliness that ensued a decade ago with teams like the Vikings and Redskins, that doesn’t happen any longer.
Nobody feels safe? What? You mean accountability?
Gutekunst's thoughts on #Packers current roster: "I think we have a lot of quality pieces on this team, but there's a lot of work to do as well." He stresses competition at every position, "so nobody feels safe."
— Ryan Wood (@ByRyanWood) January 8, 2018
Eliot Wolf has an offer for a prominent job on Gutekunst’s staff, source said. But he has to decide if he wants to come back before details are hammered out.
— Tom Silverstein (@TomSilverstein) January 8, 2018
Brainwashed Boris posted:I think I'm aroused - Be still my heart!
Listened to the presser streaming while in a meeting. 
"I think it moved Jerry."
So much to like from Gutey's comments. Solid statements/approach. Schneider or Dorsey have some success elsewhere, but Gutey gives the impression he is very much up to the task. I can see why Harlan called it a home run.
Couple notes that struck me.
A - twice Murphy commented about asking for Gutey's scouting reports of their top 3 picks from the past few years.
B - Murphy commented in his opening statement and in a response to a question that some things came to light during the interviews that influenced his decision on the re-structure.
RE: A -- a few busts in the first 3 picks the past few years. Was Murphy just wanting to see what Gutey can do, or was he looking deeper at some of the roster deficiencies?
RE: B -- has to be tied to McCarthy and Rodgers not being thrilled with Ball, right? And/Or, could be related to 'A'.
Was watching the Press conference. Reporter asked what MM would be reporting to Murphy if GM has final say on roster and player evals. Murphy answered with "Game plans and Coach evaluations"
Seriously? you need weekly updated on game plans and Asst Coach Evals? That is micro mgt at it's worst. What the F do you know about game plans in todays NFL Murph? Are weekly status reports on job performance of the coaches really the best use of your HC's time?
Not liking this structure one bit.
Not a good answer. More accurate response, my guess, would be that their in-season relationship will be more on the are you getting what you need type general team discussions. While the off-season would be more front office focused. The key take away I have from this restructure is that McCarthy now has input on the roster. I know he said he talked weekly with Ted about the roster and player evaluations/transactions, but he likely felt his voice was not really heard.
I posted during the season that maybe Thompson wanted to get a vet backup QB and McCarthy told him no, "I like the QB room the way it is". But maybe it was the opposite, and Thompson/Ball balked at signing a vet and McCarthy fell on the sword with the QB room comment?
This move by Murphy to have MM report to him is another cluster. (first onesbeing trying to get his guy Ball in the job and not having the succession plan in place from day 1) I have very little faith in him at this time as a leader.
As far as Wolfe not getting the job, he had 2 negatives against him IMO, one being age and 2) being RW's son which would always bring up speculation that he only got the job because of his last name. I don't know if either of them has any merit, but combine this with the fact Gutekunst had interest for a GM position at SF last year and possibly TX this year and it would be a no brainer to take him over Wolfe.
For everyone who can't wait for the Packer's big FA signings, remember that those contracts can really come back to bite you real fast. A couple of bad ones (including injuries) can put a team behind the 8 ball real fast. I agree with most that TT might have been overly cautious, but hopefully the new regime will be judicious.
BrainDed posted:Was watching the Press conference. Reporter asked what MM would be reporting to Murphy if GM has final say on roster and player evals. Murphy answered with "Game plans and Coach evaluations"
Seriously? you need weekly updated on game plans and Asst Coach Evals? That is micro mgt at it's worst. What the F do you know about game plans in todays NFL Murph? Are weekly status reports on job performance of the coaches really the best use of your HC's time?
Not liking this structure one bit.
Did he say weekly? You didn’t include that. Seems like coach evaluations going right to Murphy aren’t that bad of an idea. Everyone complains about how MM keeps coaches too long, perhaps Murphy is trying to keep his loyalty in check and give him a different perspective on realignments. Game plan is a hard one to understand, I don’t know why Murphy would need that unless he doesn’t mean scheme game plans, but rather game schedules like travel schedules, practice schedules, etc. That seems more like the kind of “game planning” he would be involved in. MM is seemingly on notice for the next two years, Murphy is going to be watching everything closely.
BrainDed posted:Was watching the Press conference. Reporter asked what MM would be reporting to Murphy if GM has final say on roster and player evals. Murphy answered with "Game plans and Coach evaluations"
Seriously? you need weekly updated on game plans and Asst Coach Evals? That is micro mgt at it's worst. What the F do you know about game plans in todays NFL Murph? Are weekly status reports on job performance of the coaches really the best use of your HC's time?
Not liking this structure one bit.
Grave Digger beat me to it....
Good of you to jump to the conclusion that they'd be meeting weekly on these items & then condemning the structure you know little about.
packerboi posted:Bring him on board Uncle Brian:
Gutekunst cites @MccloughanScot as the person most responsible for having him fall in love with scouting.
— Aaron Nagler (@AaronNagler) January 8, 2018
And Scotch...
if McCloughan has his stuff together I would love to see BG bring him in. The guy knows talent.
Goalline posted:SteveLuke posted:Goalline posted:Lambeau Lobo posted:Free agency also a crap shoot. Lots of busts, only those busts are so expensive they destroy your cap.
Yeah, those poor Patriots, extremely active in free agency each and every year and all they have to show for it are all those Super Bowls.
If New England only realized that it should limit player acquisitions to the draft and sprinkle in a few undrafted free agents then they too could have one of the youngest rosters every season and also be among the NFL leaders when it came to most homegrown players and they would have plenty of money left under the cap just like the Packers always had under GM Ted Thompson.
NE may have all those Super Bowls with Brady, but under Thompson we were always one of the youngest teams (or most financially prudent teams or had the fewest players from other teams) with Rodgers. Oh the glory.
Don’t be daft. The Patriots are a draft and develop team. Go through their roster and show me they have that many more free agents than the Packers squad.
Terrible example!
Daft? Terrible example? Seriously?
Is the internet is too much for those that still cling to the discredited notion that bringing in talent from another team is the Devil's Brew? If so, it would explain why so many have been so wedded to that idiotic approach.
Here are SOME of the current veterans the Patriots have acquired via trade or through free agency: QB Hoyer (FA), RB Lewis (FA), RB Burkhead (FA), RB Gillislee (FA), WR Dorsett (Trade), WR Amendola (FA), WR Cooks (Trade), WR Britt (FA), WR Hogan (FA), TE Allen (Trade), DE Guy (FA), DT Branch (FA), DT Jean-Francois (FA), LB Harris (FA), LB Van Noy (Trade), CB Gilmore (FA), CB Rowe (Trade), and S Chung (FA).
I left out TE Bennett (Trade last year and FA this year) because he is on IR.
The Pats have been big players in free agency and trades throughout BB's time in NE. Remember names like Moss, Revis, Dillon, Rodney Harrison, Chris Long, etc. from years past?
The Pats are the antithesis of the draft only mindset. If a draft pick flounders they cut him sooner rather than later and go with whatever veteran they can find.
Something else Murphy mentioned, 13 of the 32 teams have a similar structure to what he is implementing where the Coach & GM report to the owner. Said he is not the owner, but represents the shareholders. Also noted, that 7 of the playoff teams this year have similar structure. It is the current direction in the NFL.
A strong CEO can absolutely manage in this type of structure. Murphy may look like Howdy Doody, but he impressed in the presser today when he wasn't trying to be funny.
31 players on their roster have only played for NE, so yeah they’re not focused on draft and develop. Definitely not.
SteveLuke posted:Goalline posted:SteveLuke posted:Goalline posted:Lambeau Lobo posted:Free agency also a crap shoot. Lots of busts, only those busts are so expensive they destroy your cap.
Yeah, those poor Patriots, extremely active in free agency each and every year and all they have to show for it are all those Super Bowls.
If New England only realized that it should limit player acquisitions to the draft and sprinkle in a few undrafted free agents then they too could have one of the youngest rosters every season and also be among the NFL leaders when it came to most homegrown players and they would have plenty of money left under the cap just like the Packers always had under GM Ted Thompson.
NE may have all those Super Bowls with Brady, but under Thompson we were always one of the youngest teams (or most financially prudent teams or had the fewest players from other teams) with Rodgers. Oh the glory.
Don’t be daft. The Patriots are a draft and develop team. Go through their roster and show me they have that many more free agents than the Packers squad.
Terrible example!
Daft? Terrible example? Seriously?
Is the internet is too much for those that still cling to the discredited notion that bringing in talent from another team is the Devil's Brew? If so, it would explain why so many have been so wedded to that idiotic approach.
Here are SOME of the current veterans the Patriots have acquired via trade or through free agency: QB Hoyer (FA), RB Lewis (FA), RB Burkhead (FA), RB Gillislee (FA), WR Dorsett (Trade), WR Amendola (FA), WR Cooks (Trade), WR Britt (FA), WR Hogan (FA), TE Allen (Trade), DE Guy (FA), DT Branch (FA), DT Jean-Francois (FA), LB Harris (FA), LB Van Noy (Trade), CB Gilmore (FA), CB Rowe (Trade), and S Chung (FA).
I left out TE Bennett (Trade last year and FA this year) because he is on IR.
The Pats have been big players in free agency and trades throughout BB's time in NE. Remember names like Moss, Revis, Dillon, Rodney Harrison, Chris Long, etc. from years past?
The Pats are the antithesis of the draft only mindset. If a draft pick flounders they cut him sooner rather than later and go with whatever veteran they can find.
And the Packers have 6. 18 vs 6. Yeah, not even close. Goalline’s the daft one? Maybe, we need to avoid the draft and just sign free agents? If the Patriots win the Super Bowl, I’m giving full credit to the signing of Hoyer.
Floridarob posted:if McCloughan has his stuff together I would love to see BG bring him in. The guy knows talent.
He doesn't have his stuff together. Rehab didn't take. He's blaming it on the culture in Redskin offices. Can't imagine what he'd do in Wisconsin....
There are liquor stores, bars, etc. all over the United States. He isn't going to fall of the wagon any easier in Green Bay than anywhere else.
Heck, give the guy shot if your due diligence says he deserves one.
FinnLander posted:BrainDed posted:Was watching the Press conference. Reporter asked what MM would be reporting to Murphy if GM has final say on roster and player evals. Murphy answered with "Game plans and Coach evaluations"
Seriously? you need weekly updated on game plans and Asst Coach Evals? That is micro mgt at it's worst. What the F do you know about game plans in todays NFL Murph? Are weekly status reports on job performance of the coaches really the best use of your HC's time?
Not liking this structure one bit.
Grave Digger beat me to it....
Good of you to jump to the conclusion that they'd be meeting weekly on these items & then condemning the structure you know little about.
I'm 90% sure that he said they would be sitting down once a week. About 2 mins later the questions was asked about content of the meetings. See his response above.
one big takeaway - you can't take murphy or gute so literally - murphy said he hires 'good talent' and let's them do their jobs - so the micro management thing, I don't think is an issue here, maybe mis-construed.
Scot looks pretty good to me.. also said the right things RE who to pick
I like the re-organization and the more I think about it the more I like it. Murphy is able to retain the three most important pieces to the Packers Football operations. He will be the leader so that Ball feels more integral rather than second best. MM wont be able to bully Gutey into player acquisitions and management. Gutey can act like a GM without feeling Ball and MM are looking over his shoulder. He kinda buffers any ego conflicts too.
Also, it does set the Packers up to be more like many other NFL teams where the HC reports to the owner. Listening to Murphy, he said this idea came to him a couple years ago. You can see why too...TT wasn't going to get rid of MM as long as the Packers continued to make the playoffs. But after some of the recent disappointing ends to the last several seasons, you gotta think Murphy was scratching his head and getting earfuls about MM from Board members.
Murphy has taken the burden off Gutey in regards to evaluating and extending MM after 2018. And if the Packers fail miserably in the season or playoffs, you can bet Murphy will be hard-pressed to ignore the exec committee, board and fans to jettison MM.
Read in McGinns article today, that Gutekunst had more college scouting experiences which was key over Wolf. Bob quoted some AFC guys that thought Gutekunst was an outstanding choice and excellent to take over.
Hungry5 posted:If there is a dispute between the triad, Murphy said he'll "sit down with them" to resolve the conflict.
That's comforting.
I was hoping for John Schneider, but it would be counter-productive for a 'Rodgers era turnaround' to give up big draft choices for him...I know absolutely nothing about GuteKunst...but I liked his terrible choice of clothing and handshake with McCarren in his interview today...so he passes...
Nice shout out from Murphy to Charlie Casserly.
Casserly's rug makes Capers look MAHvelous.
All I want out of Gute is for him to draft Nick Collins.
Grave Digger posted:chickenboy posted:You’re wrong. 4th rounders are 4th rounders for a reason. If you’re counting on Jerron McMillan to come in immediately be a quality starter then you’ve made a bad mistake, which they did and it was. 1st rounds should be expecting to contribute immediately, 2nd rounders pretty early, 3rd rounders, should contribute some but you don’t count on it. Any round past that you should NOT expect to come in and start. Maybe you HOPE they contribute early, you expect them to make a jump in year 2, and expect they are starting or at least contributing significantly by year 3. Dean Lowry is a great example of how you should expect a day 3 player should perform.
I could be rong but I think it depends on the position. I would expect an OL drafted in the 4th or later to come in and contribute right away, ala Mark Tauscher, David Bakhtiari, Corey Linsley. I would not expect street FA OL to become starters right away. Fullbacks fall into the same catagory.
Many kickers and punters can contribute immediately whether drafted 5th or later or street FA.
Almost all other positions 4th and later are for depth, development and special teams.
BrainDed posted:FinnLander posted:BrainDed posted:Was watching the Press conference. Reporter asked what MM would be reporting to Murphy if GM has final say on roster and player evals. Murphy answered with "Game plans and Coach evaluations"
Seriously? you need weekly updated on game plans and Asst Coach Evals? That is micro mgt at it's worst. What the F do you know about game plans in todays NFL Murph? Are weekly status reports on job performance of the coaches really the best use of your HC's time?
Not liking this structure one bit.
Grave Digger beat me to it....
Good of you to jump to the conclusion that they'd be meeting weekly on these items & then condemning the structure you know little about.
I'm 90% sure that he said they would be sitting down once a week. About 2 mins later the questions was asked about content of the meetings. See his response above.
You went off the rails about meeting weekly to discuss game plans & Assistant coach evaluations which is unlikely to subject of the meeting.
Just to back the topic up a little bit, talk about draft picks and free agency but maybe the biggest benefit to Thompson being out will be this:
https://www.jsonline.com/story...s-roster/1014078001/
A bombshell quickly followed: Ted Thompson was out as general manager after 13 years.
Later that afternoon, a young member of the Packers’ roster texted a reporter to express concern. He wondered if players were about to be cut. He vowed to play better next season.
“It was up and down for me this year,” the player wrote. “Next year I need it to be all up.”
Yeah, but that was from A.J. Hawk.
...maybe it lights a fire.
Heard earlier today Schneider approached Bruce Allen about allowing him to terminate his agreement to join the Packers and the Seahawks denied his request. If that's true then **** that team and I hope bad things follow them.
Then again, this is the same team that pays A&M royalties for using 12th man references so idiocy seems to run deep with that has been franchise. Congrats Seattle. You are the NFL version of the LA Lakers.