Bombshell: Brian Gutekunst is our new GM.

GBP1 posted:

McMike is going into the last year of his contract... What do you do as a new GM?  Sign him to an extension or let him be a lame-duck?   If you, as the new GM, extend him and the Packers somehow underachieve (again...which history demonstrates might happen), then you're plugging your ears to drown out the drumbeats to fire MM and the Board member who are complaining about the buyout cost.  If I was the new GM, I would be extremely cautious about keeping MM.  I'm sticking to 50/50.

Extend him 2 years, so 3 total. Easy buy-out, and if he gets another job, the team is only on the hook for any $$ delta with his new deal.

If the new GM is Wolf or Gutenkunst, I think the above is a real possibility.

MichiganPacker2 posted:

Hungry5 posted:

Would not be surprised if #Packers fans never heard from Ted Thompson again.

— Jeff Blumb (@jeffblumb) January 2, 2018

You mean other than his induction into the Packer HOF?

Should have more SBs with #4 and #12 here than 1 in his tenure.  I don’t know why you’d put him in the HOF for being below average (if you subtract #12) at his gig considering the absolute leg up he had to begin with.  

I guess in retrospect, if you gave him the HOF for being the warm body that was there to draft #12, then I agree.  But it was a no-brainer pick then, it wasn’t like it was an unexpected move, most teams didn't have QB needs while the Packers clearly did with #4 being hot and cold about retirement or not every year.

In general my major complaint with Ted was his inability to use all facets of being a GM to build a winner.  I know he wanted to do it via the draft only, but it just seemed that it was hubris that left them a player or two short, especially on the defensive side of the ball.

Goalline posted:

Reggie McKenzie, anyone?

Interesting take, Goldieline. 

Well, TT was a warm body with a brain since several others passed on AR.

You mean everyone, and the cold bodied Vikings twice?

Diggr14 posted:

I guess in retrospect, if you gave him the HOF for being the warm body that was there to draft #12, then I agree.  But it was a no-brainer pick then, it wasn’t like it was an unexpected move, most teams didn't have QB needs while the Packers clearly did with #4 being hot and cold about retirement or not every year.

This is a tired and stupid take that has been shot down daily. Favre was not hot and cold about retirement in the spring of 2005. To the contrary, there was a lot of questions why GB would take a QB in the 1st round with Favre still very near his prime. The talk about retirement wasn't really plausible until the 2006 season. I'm sure you'll recall that pic with his OL at Soldier Field in the season finale? 

If you are going to post here, come up with some decent football insight, and not parroted commentary from the JS Comments.

It's amazing to read some of the comments here now that TT is out. These are a lot of the same posters that believed Ted could do no wrong, and was one of the best, if not the best GM's in football. Even thought he was doing the right thing by not signing big ticket FA's. My how the tune has changed. I never liked him ignoring FA, and this is a GREAT day because as Packer fans, we can all enjoy the FA frenzy again, and we will finally have a GM that uses all facets available to him to build his team.

My first reaction to this is not a positive one. If this was a well thought-out plan by Murphy, or Murphy and Thompson, then they should have pounced on Dorsey who was available for months. Or had an agreement with Schneider to return. Not announce Thompson no longer as GM and only now begin a search. And complicated with McCarthy still here -- and in the process of looking for a new defensive coordinator. Would like to think this is all part of a well thought through, strategic plan being executed. But very concerned it's not.

I don’t want to enjoy the FA market any more than what TT (or whoever) did this year. You could argue that the best FA signing this year was Evans. Brooks, hurt. Dial, didn’t do a whole lot. MB, head case. Not a lot of those big-name FAs in recent years have worked out, for any team. Woodson was the exception, not the rule.

sschumer - Packer Fan HoF'r posted:

My first reaction to this is not a positive one. If this was a well thought-out plan by Murphy, or Murphy and Thompson, then they should have pounced on Dorsey who was available for months. Or had an agreement with Schneider to return. Not announce Thompson no longer as GM and only now begin a search. And complicated with McCarthy still here -- and in the process of looking for a new defensive coordinator. Would like to think this is all part of a well thought through, strategic plan being executed. But very concerned it's not.

Hmmm...good insight.

Brainwashed Boris posted:

If you hire a new HC, then you have a completely new philosophy on offense & an All-Pro QB that potentially has to learn a new system.

There is nothing wrong with MM's offense. Hell we've even seen Hundley perform in it to open games at least. 

If the GM gets a new HC, that's when you might lose your All-Timer at QB. 

He might want to move along to say....Jacksonville.

Or Minnesota! Nahhhh.....a Green Bay QB would never want to play in purple

Boris...Happy New Year!

A couple weeks ago you commented that defense-minded HC might work well with Rodgers.   

If the Packers were to hire a new HC, my guess is they will not bring in a guy who would overhaul the offense.  But they may bring back somebody like McAdoo or Philbin as the OC.   

Happy New Year!

Just so much uncertainty now but I don't believe MM is going anywhere. Not yet anyway

Wow Packer fans have become spoiled.  In a weekend where the Browns wrapped up a 1-31 streak and the Bills ended their 17 years playoff drought, we're bitching about our GM b/c he hasn't brought us enough Super Bowls.  Maybe it should be better, but it could be a whole lot worse.  We're about to find out.  

And just curious, but who are the top 10 GMs in the league?  I'd say TT is easily in that group but sounds like I'm in the minority.  

GBP1 posted:

sschumer - Packer Fan HoF'r posted:

My first reaction to this is not a positive one. If this was a well thought-out plan by Murphy, or Murphy and Thompson, then they should have pounced on Dorsey who was available for months. Or had an agreement with Schneider to return. Not announce Thompson no longer as GM and only now begin a search. And complicated with McCarthy still here -- and in the process of looking for a new defensive coordinator. Would like to think this is all part of a well thought through, strategic plan being executed. But very concerned it's not.

Hmmm...good insight.

It’s not completely inconceivable that nothing was going to pry Dorsey away from the Cleveland GM job. 

1. He told Haslam he has 100% say in all football operations. Probably wrote that into his contract. If Haslam steps over him it’s going to cost Jimmy a mint.

2. It’s not a low bar. The bar is laying on the ground. Maybe a little embedded. It’s impossible to screw things up in Cleveland. 

3. Cleveland has a gazillion early picks. It’s very possible Dorsey swings a couple simple moves and selects the first two players in the 2018 draft. I say QB and RB and he goes from there. 

4. Cleveland isn’t completely devoid of talent. It’s just a culture black hole. Fix the mindset. Draft well. Hold coaches accountable. 

No guarantee Dorsey ever wanted to come back to GB. Same with Schneider. The so called out clause for Schneider to come back to GB was never verified from what I recall.

McKenzie, Dorsey, & Schneider all started with Wolf, they are from that tree, just like Thompson.

Fandame posted:

I don’t want to enjoy the FA market any more than what TT (or whoever) did this year. You could argue that the best FA signing this year was Evans. Brooks, hurt. Dial, didn’t do a whole lot. MB, head case. Not a lot of those big-name FAs in recent years have worked out, for any team. Woodson was the exception, not the rule.

Well, let's see, one of the Packs biggest weaknesses going into this season was at CB..Two of the biggest FA's (AJ Bouye...who I really wanted them to sign), and Stephon Gilmore were available. Bouye finished as PFF's 5th graded CB and Gilmore was 17th. Pretty sure either of them would have helped the secondary immensely this year.

You're not in the minority. 

Diggr14 is in the minority & his take about Rodgers "falling in TT's lap" & a "No brainer pick" is flat out inaccurate. Especially with a HOF QB already on the roster with 5 solid years left in his career.

It took a ton of balls to draft Rodgers in that slot with Favre already on the team but TT did the right thing for the Green Bay Packers & didn't let his superstar QB "hurty feewings" play into it.

I thank TT every day for drafting Rodgers. It's the reason we have at least 1 more Super Bowl title in our pockets. We might get another in the future

My Top GMs (in no particular order): Bellichick, Newsome, Thompson, Colbert, and that's really it.  No one else really stands out.  No other GM in the league has shown any kind of consistency.  

I like Eagles Howie Roseman too but TT is definitely top 5

People will point to Schneider as a top GM but that roster is a disaster right now. He's living off his 2010-2012 drafts (which were unreal), and now that those players are older and getting paid market value, things aren't as rosy.  He swung and whiffed huge on Harvin, Graham, and Richardson (who is a FA after giving up a second rounder for him) and has little to show for his last 5 drafts - only Frank Clark is a great player and he only fell to the second round b/c he allegedly beat his girlfriend.  

Oh, and you know how the Seahawks have RB problems?  Did you know Schneider released Alex Collins at final cuts this year to keep Eddie Lacy?  That's the same Alex Collins who finished 11th in the league in rushing yards and averaged 4.6 ypc for a Ravens team with little else on offense. Collins literally left to become a starter on a solid Ravens team, while the Seahawks paid 8 times as much for a healthy scratch.  Not good.  

EDIT: And this isn't to say that think he sucks.  But he has shown some real issues the last few years in the draft and his judgement in trades.  He's probably top ten but I just can't put him in the same class of TT.  

Brainwashed Boris posted:

I like Eagles Howie Roseman too but TT is definitely top 5

I was thinking about him too but will have to wait for more consistency.  I don't know how to look at the Chip Kelly years with Roseman.  But he's on track to show he's a top GM.  

CUPackFan posted:

People will point to Schneider as a top GM but that roster is a disaster right now. He's living off his 2010-2012 drafts (which were unreal), and now that those players are older and getting paid market value, things aren't as rosy.  He swung and whiffed huge on Harvin, Graham, and Richardson (who is a FA after giving up a second rounder for him) and has little to show for his last 5 drafts - only Frank Clark is a great player and he only fell to the second round b/c he allegedly beat his girlfriend.  

Oh, and you know how the Seahawks have RB problems?  Did you know Schneider released Alex Collins at final cuts this year to keep Eddie Lacy?  That's the same Alex Collins who finished 11th in the league in rushing yards and averaged 4.6 ypc for a Ravens team with little else on offense. Collins literally left to become a starter on a solid Ravens team, while the Seahawks paid 8 times as much for a healthy scratch.  Not good.  

EDIT: And this isn't to say that think he sucks.  But he has shown some real issues the last few years in the draft and his judgement in trades.  He's probably top ten but I just can't put him in the same class of TT.  

Excellent points on Schneider. He left Seattle an aging, poor OL, mess. He has nowhere to go in Cleveland but up. 

You know, it might sound  like I hate MM and want him to be fired.  I really don't.  I like him and think he fits with Green Bay. 

But I keep looking at the recent results, his longevity and some other things that seem to point to a HC that's welcome mat is getting worn out.  Sure, we had the incredible playoff run and MM pulled together some of those teams to make it deep into the playoffs.  But each of those seasons, save one, have ended  in major disappointments.  And toss in the game yesterday, which was a debacle pure and simple.  At some point, good might not be good enough anymore and it might be time to turn the page and take your chances elsewhere.

GreenNgoldBlood posted:

Fandame posted:

I don’t want to enjoy the FA market any more than what TT (or whoever) did this year. You could argue that the best FA signing this year was Evans. Brooks, hurt. Dial, didn’t do a whole lot. MB, head case. Not a lot of those big-name FAs in recent years have worked out, for any team. Woodson was the exception, not the rule.

Well, let's see, one of the Packs biggest weaknesses going into this season was at CB..Two of the biggest FA's (AJ Bouye...who I really wanted them to sign), and Stephon Gilmore were available. Bouye finished as PFF's 5th graded CB and Gilmore was 17th. Pretty sure either of them would have helped the secondary immensely this year.

Yeah Jax must really regret all those FAs they signed to improve their D (Campbell, Church, Bouye) last offseason.

And NE always regrets their high-level of free agent activity (both big time FAs like Gilmore and Revis and lots of older vets signed to bargain contracts) as it only ends with them in a Super Bowl practically every year.

Fandame posted:

Excellent points on Schneider. He left Seattle an aging, poor OL, mess. He has nowhere to go in Cleveland but up. 

Schneider is the GM in Seattle. 

John Dorsey is in Cleveland.

I know they're practically interchangeable.

It's late. Thanks for the catch, Boris. Then I really rest my case on Schneider.

Dorsey? He is hamstrung if the owner insists on him keeping Jackson. In three years as a HC, Jackson is 9-39 (8-8 for his only year in Oakland). Why an owner would bring in a GM and then tell him he has to keep a coach who has a two-year win percentage of 3% (23% overall) is mystifying, but then again, it is Cleveland...

I seem to remember reading a story on MM some time back where he talked about some of the things he has to do to 'wrap up' his end of year duties, including evaluations with players and coaches.
I've wondered if he already knows he's being let go, but the team and he have agreed to let him wrap up his stuff as he usually does.
My SWAG is if there are no 'leaks' or reports from Schefter, Rappaport, and their ilk by the weekend, and no announcement is made next Monday, he will be here for at least next year.
I'll further speculate that if the new GM is someone internal, it should be a simple extension for 3-4 years. If they come from outside 1265, he may have to negotiate a new deal. If that were to happen, it could be anything; no deal and he moves on, 1 year, 2 years, or longer.

Packers will HAVE to hire within.  No self respecting person outside of the organization would want anything to do with that crap roster, much less have to work in the village of Green Bay.

So...Thompson gonna be the greeter at the Packer Hall Of Fame?  Designated bobble head hander-outer?  Will they hire a personal caretaker to feed him his applesauce when he has one of his "moments"?

Why the hell would the Packers want him anywhere NEAR the scouting department or personnel department?  Worst roster in the league.

Packer fans should be THANKING Anthony Barr for exposing this talentless roster.

Something interesting (to me) about the GM's discussed above is that these men are generally perceived to be among the best at their profession. However, they also seem to have cycles of being hot/cold.
A team gets hot, remains strong and competitive over a number of years, and they're hailed as geniuses. Then all kinds of variables start to factor in; contracts, injuries, FA defection, aging players.... suddenly they're not looking so smert.

Just a couple of years or so ago, we were laughing at the Eagles circus.
This year, they look to be good young team on the rise.
Seattle is another good example, albeit with the opposite trend. 
Last year, some people couldn't gush enough over the Raiders.
Newsome doesn't seem to be such a genius in Baltimore any longer.
Heck, even the Rams have had so much turmoil with the move to LA, had not been looking particularly good, and seemed to be going nowhere. And nobody ever talked about their GM.

I don't know if this says success (perceived or real) depends on finding the right players at the right times, or having a life cycle of 5-7 years for a GM....

It's definitely cyclical in the NFL. 

Only the best teams keep their continuity.

Packers have had only 3 losing seasons in a quarter century over 3 different GM's. No other team in the NFC North is even close to that record.

Now the new GM has a pretty high bar to achieve.

SteveLuke posted:

Yeah Jax must really regret all those FAs they signed to improve their D (Campbell, Church, Bouye) last offseason.

And NE always regrets their high-level of free agent activity (both big time FAs like Gilmore and Revis and lots of older vets signed to bargain contracts) as it only ends with them in a Super Bowl practically every year.

Stephon Gilmore, cornerback, New England Patriots

The Patriots signed Gilmore — an original 10th overall pick by the Buffalo Bills in 2012 — to a generous five-year, $65 million contract. This was after Gilmore originally said he wanted to earn at least $14 million per year.

For the money Gilmore is earning, he should be contributing at a high level, rather than getting burned in coverage. After missing three games this season for health reasons, Gilmore has nabbed just two interceptions and has defended only eight passes. In his final season with the Bills, Gilmore achieved a career-high five interceptions.

Gilmore is not exactly a bright star on a Patriots defense that is yielding 373.9 yards on average each game.

Free agency guarantees success, don't ya know!

Interesting to find out how much of this was a TT decision and how much of it was a shove from Murphy. Dorsey was my first choice and it's unfortunate it played out the way it did. My guess is they likely stay in-house and MM suffers the same fate as Infante and Sherman in a year or two when the GM wants his own guy as coach.

Keep the viking trolls off X4.

My guess is Gutekunst.

If it is Wolf, don't we need him to cut his teeth with the Raiders first?

And the Buccaneers & Jets.

michiganjoe posted:

Interesting to find out how much of this was a TT decision and how much of it was a shove from Murphy. Dorsey was my first choice and it's unfortunate it played out the way it did. My guess is they likely stay in-house and MM suffers the same fate as Infante and Sherman in a year or two when the GM wants his own guy as coach.

McGinn posted an article this morning that indicates the board of directors were heavily involved in this decision and there are concerns regarding Thompson mental health.  

FinnLander posted:

SteveLuke posted:

Yeah Jax must really regret all those FAs they signed to improve their D (Campbell, Church, Bouye) last offseason.

And NE always regrets their high-level of free agent activity (both big time FAs like Gilmore and Revis and lots of older vets signed to bargain contracts) as it only ends with them in a Super Bowl practically every year.

Stephon Gilmore, cornerback, New England Patriots

The Patriots signed Gilmore — an original 10th overall pick by the Buffalo Bills in 2012 — to a generous five-year, $65 million contract. This was after Gilmore originally said he wanted to earn at least $14 million per year.

For the money Gilmore is earning, he should be contributing at a high level, rather than getting burned in coverage. After missing three games this season for health reasons, Gilmore has nabbed just two interceptions and has defended only eight passes. In his final season with the Bills, Gilmore achieved a career-high five interceptions.

Gilmore is not exactly a bright star on a Patriots defense that is yielding 373.9 yards on average each game.

Free agency guarantees success, don't ya know!

First, you cite a site called "Yardbarker" as proof of anything. 

Second: New England's major issue is no pass rush, which is why they signed Harrison. Their leading pass rushers are Trey Flowers and weak-side linebacker Kyle Van Noy, who are decent, but there's no primary guy there. 

That's sad.  Link?

PackerJoe posted:

michiganjoe posted:

Interesting to find out how much of this was a TT decision and how much of it was a shove from Murphy. Dorsey was my first choice and it's unfortunate it played out the way it did. My guess is they likely stay in-house and MM suffers the same fate as Infante and Sherman in a year or two when the GM wants his own guy as coach.

McGinn posted an article this morning that indicates the board of directors were heavily involved in this decision and there are concerns regarding Thompson mental health.  

That's alarming if true, but after some of the photos of TT in the press box recently, it's not out of the question. He had the kind of look you see in dementia or Parkinsons patients at times.