2013 - Free agency season

I find it hard to believe Minny wouldn't offer Jennings more than 6 million per year, wherever that number came from.

They don't have a receiver to speak of in that organization.

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They don't have a receiver to speak of in that organization.

Aside from Crissy Carter, Randy Moss, and Bobby Moore when have they ever had one?

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Originally posted by Shoeless Joe:

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They don't have a receiver to speak of in that organization.

Aside from Crissy Carter, Randy Moss, and Bobby Moore when have they ever had one?

Anthony Carter and Jake Reed, too.

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Originally posted by chickenboy:
Find where I ever said continuously. Everyone lauds the Woodson signing from years ago. He could afford add another every now and then. And no, Ryan Pickett, although a wonderful pickup, doesn't fit the narrative currently rolling on this thread.

You say the same thing every year around this time. "So and so would shore up this weakness" or "this team or that team is filling weaknesses with quality free agents while Ted sits on his hands". You continuously call for free agents during the offseason implying that Ted's "plan" isn't the correct way...yet the success he's had in GB screams the opposite. The Jerry Jones/Dan Snyder way has proven that signing free agents doesn't instantly upgrade the team or even the position of weakness. But Ted's/Belichick's/Colbert's/Polian's/Ozzie's way doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt?

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Originally posted by chickenboy:

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Originally posted by Goalline: Everytime free agency starts I look to see who is signing the "name" free agents. Never fails. It is always the teams who have drafted poorly the last few years.

Like Seattle?

Like Seattle. Drafting all those crappy receivers will force you to send your draft to another team for their malcontents.

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Originally posted by Fandame:

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Originally posted by turnip blood:
http://profootballtalk.nbcspor...isiting-the-vikings/

Jenning is visting the Queens.

Leverage.

Jennings is good with computers?

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Originally posted by Floridarob:
the difference between Woodson and REggie White is that nobody else wanted Woodson. Ted did not have to go up against other teams to bring him in. Tampa wanted him but did not have the money at the time. I think Ted is a great GM but if a REggie White was on the market and had 10 suitors chasing him, I would bet the house that Ted would not get involved.

Has there been a talent like Reggie White since? Does TT live and work in a the age of the salary cap? Would the Reggie sweepstakes even be the same? So let's try to look at all the hypotheticals before crying about.

Same scenario every year. Whine about FA yet it's proven again and again that teams that build through the draft with conservative moves in FA win championships.

Mario Williams.

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Originally posted by chickenboy:

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Originally posted by Pakrz: I would expect that Minnesota will offer Jennings a better contract than the Packers.

I would sure hope they would. If TT is going to let guys like Avril (who plays a position of need) sign two years deals with one of the conference's elite and you overpay by even a dollar for a guy in a position of strength would not seem to fit the "plan" I keep hearing about.

Avril is a pass rush specialist at best. A liability in the run and in no way proven as a 3-4 LB. Avril lost money because he thought he was worth more.

****ing idiot passive aggressive contrarian horseschit that pours off of your keyboard borders on epic.

Mardy Fish‏@MardyFish
. @GregJennings Free tennis lessons for life if you sign with the @Vikings



This may do it.

Christian Ponder‏@cponder7
@MardyFish @GregJennings where are my lessons??

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Originally posted by chickenboy:

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Originally posted by Goalline: Everytime free agency starts I look to see who is signing the "name" free agents. Never fails. It is always the teams who have drafted poorly the last few years.

Like Seattle?

And let's watch the fun in the near future when payday comes. So essentially, Schneider and ****bag have put it all in one basket and if it doesn't hit they are bailing cap water instead of adding to the nucleus of young players.

Young, developing team bringing in POS like Harvin? Have fun with your future player negotiations Schneider. You just shortened your window and we all know how a flukey season of injuries is enough to stop forward momentum.

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Originally posted by Henry:[Same scenario every year. Whine about FA yet it's proven again and again that teams that build through the draft with conservative moves in FA win championships.

Mario Williams.

Mario Williams is a good example of a perpetual crummy team overpaying for a FA and not getting any improvement out of it from him.

If a good team overpaid for him and inserted him in a position of need I would say they would have been very happy with his 10.5 sacks after coming off a injury yr.

So in the age of the salary cap you're going to hamper the ability to pay the young core of players you develop? You're going to pay one guy or the team.

Say the Packers landed Williams. How do those contracts for Rodgers, Matthews, etc. look now? That window closed to a crack. If your goal is to win just once, good luck with that. If your goal is to field a competitive team with a shot at the Superbowl on a regular basis you don't overpay for one guy in this day and age.

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Originally posted by Henry:
If your goal is to win just once, good luck with that.

That's the funny part. Signing free agents like Mario is part of a "win now" philosophy, but those same people screaming for a win now philosophy criticize Thompson for only winning 1 SB in 4 recent playoff trips. They want the consistent success over several years, but advocate moves that make that difficult.

All those kvelling over TT and his calm austere approach to FA should look around at what is happening and stop rationalizing. The Packers generally draft at the bottom every year resulting in higher likelihood we won't get a difference maker, and aside from Rodgers and the great Mathews/Raji draft we've been skunked almost every year. So few difference makers in the draft and a rare difference maker in FA (I'll give you Woodson and Picket). Meanwhile, San Fran is loaded with talent on the D as a result of having sucked for years, same with Seattle. We have major holes at ILB, OLB, OL, S, DL and we think we'll fix them in the draft? This reverence for TT is way too cultish. There are a lot of good players out there. Yes we're hoarding money for Rodgers/Mathews/Raji but winning costs money. TT is waiting for a bargain, for the second wave, keeping his powder dry... CRAP! He'll sign three or four mid level FA's in the hope one will blossom but the odds are against it. We've been trashed in big games, folks, trashed. There's a reason. As a great coach once said, "It's time."

hurry TT hurry!!!! sign someone in FA so... so the fans can feel happy that something was done. that's no way to build a team. in TT I trust - he's earned it.

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As a great coach once said, "It's time."

Actually he said "It is TIME!"

Add in this as well. Nobody would say the Packers were firing on all cylinders last year with all the injuries and the middle of the oline being substandard but yet they still pulled out a season that got them into the playoffs. Yep, the loss sucked and that's when all the injuries came home to roost. But that's the hand that was dealt. And with all of those grind it out ugly games they still made it to the playoffs. Any other team and it's 6-10.

Now TT has his full compliment of draft picks and does smart shopping in FA to help patch holes as well. It's like a brewing culture. You have a mother culture that consistently gives you a excellent uniform product with some years being a little more extraordinary. In contrast, you have imitators that just throw a bunch of **** together and wonder why the product may have some interesting notes but has no character and ends up being a gimmick.

Culture and maturation.

I'll say the same thing I say every year. I do trust TT. I do enjoy the recent success. But, that doesn't mean I don't get a little jealous of all the fans who get new shiny toys this time of year....even if those toys turn out to be broken or not any fun. I would just like to get something.

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Originally posted by Hud:
All those kvelling over TT and his calm austere approach to FA should look around at what is happening and stop rationalizing. The Packers generally draft at the bottom every year resulting in higher likelihood we won't get a difference maker, and aside from Rodgers and the great Mathews/Raji draft we've been skunked almost every year. So few difference makers in the draft and a rare difference maker in FA (I'll give you Woodson and Picket). Meanwhile, San Fran is loaded with talent on the D as a result of having sucked for years, same with Seattle. We have major holes at ILB, OLB, OL, S, DL and we think we'll fix them in the draft? This reverence for TT is way too cultish. There are a lot of good players out there. Yes we're hoarding money for Rodgers/Mathews/Raji but winning costs money. TT is waiting for a bargain, for the second wave, keeping his powder dry... CRAP! He'll sign three or four mid level FA's in the hope one will blossom but the odds are against it. We've been trashed in big games, folks, trashed. There's a reason. As a great coach once said, "It's time."

Yeah, that's why the same approach doesn't work for Pitt, NE, Baltimore, etc.

I've got facts, you have hysterics.

You looked at the players in the first round only. It shows you have no vision or context. Good players come from all rounds of the draft and even UDFA (Shields sure sucks doesn't he?).

You're myopic. What's new?

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Originally posted by Hud:
All those kvelling over TT and his calm austere approach to FA should look around at what is happening and stop rationalizing. The Packers generally draft at the bottom every year resulting in higher likelihood we won't get a difference maker, and aside from Rodgers and the great Mathews/Raji draft we've been skunked almost every year. So few difference makers in the draft and a rare difference maker in FA (I'll give you Woodson and Picket). Meanwhile, San Fran is loaded with talent on the D as a result of having sucked for years, same with Seattle. We have major holes at ILB, OLB, OL, S, DL and we think we'll fix them in the draft? This reverence for TT is way too cultish. There are a lot of good players out there. Yes we're hoarding money for Rodgers/Mathews/Raji but winning costs money. TT is waiting for a bargain, for the second wave, keeping his powder dry... CRAP! He'll sign three or four mid level FA's in the hope one will blossom but the odds are against it. We've been trashed in big games, folks, trashed. There's a reason. As a great coach once said, "It's time."

I find it puzzling there are so many questioning TT's model and approach. This idea that we're wasting the top years of Rodgers's career is equally puzzling. Did we not just go 26-6 the last two years? That's hardly waste. I agree the playoff losses were disappointing the past two years, but you can't win every year. All you can do is put yourself in a place to be competitive and that's what GB has done with consistency in recent years.

Regarding TT's approach, for starters, I would challenge the idea that you can't get impact players through the draft outside of the start of the 1st round. We talk about how devastating the loss of Collins is, for example, but he was a 2nd round pick! Ditto for Jennings. Guys like Finley, James Jones, Sitton, etc. -- there's a ton of value after the first round of the draft. And while the two MVPS (Rodgers and CMIII) are first round guys, clearly TT has build a strong roster from the draft.

On free agency, while there are times I'd like TT to be more aggressive, it's really hard to question his approach. The early days of free agency are insane. You talk about the wholes on the roster, but what exactly would you like TT to do? They need a safety...and Dashon Goldson looks like a great fit, but should he spend $45 million to get him? Or, should he wait and maybe get a guy like Michael Huff at a much more reasonable deal down the road? The free agent market is flooded with quality players right now, and I think a patient approach is the right approach this year.

I guess they need to lose more often so they can get better draft picks.

It's so clear to me now!!! This team needs to suck to win!

I knew I was a 'WINNER'.

Let's expand on the "suck to win" philosophy.

So your team blows and you get some high picks that develop but you want your cake now! So you throw in a bunch of high priced FAs and you make some ruckus in the post season, maybe (and this rare) win a Superbowl.

Now it's salary cap time. Who gets paid? Where is the team philosophy now because you're drafting at the end of the round and you have a bunch of players that need to get paid! Well, it's the beginning of the suck cycle so what do you do? I know! Dump draft picks to move up, constantly try to shuffle contracts of past FAs who now see your organization for what it is, I WANT CAKE NOW! Players are only concerned about their payday because the organization isn't concerned with them. You still have a talent deficit because of injuries, aging vets but now you have nothing to rebuild with.

What do you end up with? The Raiders. Yeah, awesome plan.

Instant gratification - it's whats for dinner.

Now get off my lawn.

In another sport, it's called the FL/Miami Marlins

But you can enjoy that one championship from 15 years ago while the team on the field today could be beaten by a good college team.

If I remember right a Green Bay Championship team was once beaten by a College "All Stars" team before they ended the practice.

OFFENSE:

Quarterbacks (3) – Michael Vick, Vince Young, Mike Kafka

Running Backs (4) – LeSean McCoy, Ronnie Brown, Dion Lewis and fullback Owen Schmitt

Wide Receivers (5) – DeSean Jackson, Jeremy Maclin, Jason Avant, Riley Cooper and Steve Smith

Tight Ends (2) – Brent Celek, Clay Harbor

DEFENSE:

Offensive Line (9) – Jason Peters, Evan Mathis, Jason Kelce, Danny Watkins, Todd Herremans, Winston Justice, King Dunlap, Julian Vandervelde and Jamaal Jackson.

Defensive Linemen (10) – Ends – Trent Cole, Jason Babin, Juqua Parker, Darryl Tapp, and Phillip Hunt.
Tackles – Mike Patterson, Cullen Jenkins, Antonio Dixon, Trevor Laws and Cedric Thornton.

Linebackers (6) – Jamar Chaney, Casey Matthews, Moise Fokou, Akeem Jordan, Keenan Clayton and Brian Rolle.

Defensive Backs (11) Corners: Nnamdi Asomugha, Asante Samuel, Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, Curtis Marsh, Trevard Lindley and Brandon Hughes.

Safeties: Kurt Coleman, Jarrad Page, Nate Allen, Jaiquawn Jarrett and Colt Anderson.

SPECIAL TEAMS: (3) Kicker: Alex Henery Punter: Chas Henry Long-snapper: Jon Dorenbos

Back to free agency news.

Ian Rapoport saying that the Cardinals plan to release Kevin Kolb soon.

Rapoport also reporting that the Rams are working on hammering out a deal with Jake Long.

Per Rotoworld, Matt Cassel has been released by the Chiefs.

Schefter reporting that the Chiefs locked up Sean Smith for 3 years. Considering how high some folks were on him before the start of the silly season, it's kind of surprising.

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Originally posted by Hud:
We have major holes at ILB, OLB, OL, S, DL and we think we'll fix them in the draft? This reverence for TT is way too cultish.

Your comment on the TT cult has some merit around here, but understand that its the result of so much bashing by so many posters over the years.
So the pro-TT crowd tends to be a little cultish in response to the never ending slings and arrows. We know he whiffs, we know he has a lousy bedside manner and the personality of a dry toast. We get it

But as Chilijon so eloquently wrote- 9 of the last 10 Super Bowl winners followed the draft and develop mantra and used FA strategically - not to fill holes long term but to hold the fort until the new guys are ready

SF hasn't won squat so I don't know why so many are holding them up as a model for anything, same with Seattle. The Hawks have cap room because they scored a QB in the 3rd- leaving them with money to spend

But using a 1st rounder on a WR isn't very wise and spending 3 picks on a head case is borderline idiotic

As for fixing the holes in the draft, let's not forget that GB drafted 6 defenders last year, one of them in the 2nd round who turned into a rookie of the year candidate and replaced one of the most difficult to replace players in Charles Woodson - that's a fantastic pick and even more impressive coaching of Casey Hayward. A mid 2nd rounder who is a playmaker- imagine that !

And here's the part I think that all of you FA lovers really need to come to grips with:

Green Bay is not a favored destination for young millionaires. Its just not. There are 330 million people in the USA and only 5 million of them grew up in WI or lived there. So the vast majority of the population and players know nothing of WI and don't dream of coming to small town GB

So, how will you lure them there ? By overpaying. Whether that's on day one or day 75, players from FLA, CA, TX, the SEC etc simply wouldn't choose GB as a preferred destination if they have other choices.
Woodson didn't want to come to GB at all...

So, given that, Thompson and the front office chose a strategy that fits in Green Bay WI- how fukking smart is that ?

It also acts as a filter- guys who are all about football will see the value in Titletown and take a contract that is market value. Canty wouldn't even come to GB in 2009, so GB didn't bother with an offer. You won't even come for a visit ?

Screw you, get your cash someplace else

And finally, Thompson is one of the few GMs who actually played the game and understands the immense importance of locker room chemistry

He won't drop a turd in the pool, he won't pay outsiders more than the guys who toil all year long because all it does is create disharmony and animosity

And if you ask any Championship squad they all say the same thing

"We came together as a team, the chemistry is awesome and they'd take a bullet for their fellow players"

Contrast that with the Dream Team in Philly where $60 million dollar Nnamdi eats his lunch alone in the car cause he can't stand his team mates and they don't like him

We're blessed to have an organization that understands their position, their role and how the outside world views them and has developed a strategy to take advantage of their strengths, minimize their weaknesses... and despite being the smallest outpost in all of professional sports are the all time leaders with 13 World Titles spanning decades

They aren't perfect, but I wouldn't trade them for any other team


Go Packers

Post of the Year!!!

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Originally posted by Henry:

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Originally posted by chickenboy:

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Originally posted by Goalline: Everytime free agency starts I look to see who is signing the "name" free agents. Never fails. It is always the teams who have drafted poorly the last few years.

Like Seattle?

And let's watch the fun in the near future when payday comes. So essentially, Schneider and ****bag have put it all in one basket and if it doesn't hit they are bailing cap water instead of adding to the nucleus of young players.

Young, developing team bringing in POS like Harvin? Have fun with your future player negotiations Schneider. You just shortened your window and we all know how a flukey season of injuries is enough to stop forward momentum.

This is the way the Vikings front office works.

A player that's rarely produced, had a mysterious injury, and is a headache off the field, how would you handle him?

Clearly, if you're the Vikings, you lavish upon him a 1 year deal that includes: $1.35m base salary, $500k signing bonus, and $250k workout bonus.

Well said, Satori.

Good investigative work by:

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Originally posted by Satori: But as Chilijon so eloquently wrote- 9 of the last 10 Super Bowl winners followed the draft and develop mantra and used FA strategically - not to fill holes long term but to hold the fort until the new guys are ready.

The group that pines for a FA signing or two only wants what you state above. There is a notion on here that if you are a proponent of signing a FA that means you want silly Haynesworth-like deals. Nothing is farther from the truth.

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Originally posted by Satori: Green Bay is not a favored destination for young millionaires. Its just not.

I don't buy this. Players will go where the money is. They don't have to live there in the offseason.

Nice work on that post (even though I don't agree with it all).

Satori,
Once again, great post. I wouldn't trade the Packers for anything either. Go Packers!

Fantastic post, Satori.