bigdoggyjude posted:
I'm not sure AR is going to stand for this much longer. The look of disgust in a recent game when he marched down the field to give the Packers a lead only to watch Dom's defense give it back was rather telling.
And what do you expect Rodgers to do? Maybe he'll take his football & go home.
bigdoggyjude posted:50k Club posted:Coaching makes the difference. Sean McDermott came in to the Bills and simplified their defense and has them playing again at a high level (yesterday's point total to the Bucs notwithstanding). I still admire Vic Fangio, who has the Bears defense playing at a respectable level given a ton of injuries at linebacker and CBs you couldn't name, with an impotent offense and rookie QB to boot. And Wade Phillips was already mentioned above.
I recall complaints from our DBs in years past about Dom's defense being complicated, communication issues, etc. I'm not sure what it's going to take to turn this defense around. Bend, but don't break won't work with the Hundley-led O being a work-in-progress and the inability to sustain drives. The rookies (King and Jones) are already playing and are taking their lumps. Martinez has stepped up, Clark is playing really, really well and Perry looks healthy. I think there are a lot of good pieces on the D. Maybe simplify things so they can play faster, start getting snaps for M. Adams as an interior rusher, settle on a DB group (I know injuries are a part of that). After the bye, the D will have all of it's preferred starters assuming Burnett is back. There are no excuses any longer.
Indeed it does - look at how bad the Falcons offense is this year with Shanahan out. The only time the Falcons looked like the offense from last year was against the Packers - what does that say about Dom?
We do what we do.
We're being Schnelkered.
Think real change is needed- clean house completely and bring in John Dorsey.
Nope. Eliot Wolf. But that's a long way away. Maybe TT will retire...maybe not.
MM needs to do something about the defense "mis-communication" issues.
MM has a big problem on his hands. Multiple problems. Superman ain't around to "get that fixed" for him anymore.
At this point i don't fault TT for the talent on defense - I'm now 100% convinced this is a Dom issue, not a TT issue. There is a lot of talent in this group. And we see the talent individually but we don't get it as a group, like being lesser than the sum of the parts. Again, a Dom issue, not a TT issue.
Clark and Daniels are as good as any DT tandem in the league right now. Most teams would kill to have outside pass rushing tandem like CMIII and Perry. Martinez is proving to be the best ILB we've had in years. Even in the secondary, Haha and Burnett are a damn good safety duo (although Haha hasn't played that well lately but again, is that a Dom issue?). And Kevin King is proving to be as good a rookie CB as we ever could have hoped. This defense just has too much talent not just on paper, but talent we've seen on the field. But when we put all eleven guys on the field together, I'm not seeing it.
Now that Clark is showing he's a border line elite player, I'm convinced this defense should be top 10 with the talent they have. At the end of the day, if Dom can't succeed with this group, he has to go.
CUPackFan posted:At this point i don't fault TT for the talent on defense - I'm now 100% convinced this is a Dom issue, not a TT issue. There is a lot of talent in this group. And we see the talent individually but we don't get it as a group, like being lesser than the sum of the parts. Again, a Dom issue, not a TT issue.
Clark and Daniels are as good as any DT tandem in the league right now. Most teams would kill to have outside pass rushing tandem like CMIII and Perry. Martinez is proving to be the best ILB we've had in years. Even in the secondary, Haha and Burnett are a damn good safety duo (although Haha hasn't played that well lately but again, is that a Dom issue?). And Kevin King is proving to be as good a rookie CB as we ever could have hoped. This defense just has too much talent not just on paper, but talent we've seen on the field. But when we put all eleven guys on the field together, I'm not seeing it.
Now that Clark is showing he's a border line elite player, I'm convinced this defense should be top 10 with the talent they have. At the end of the day, if Dom can't succeed with this group, he has to go.
Yeah, guys like Casey Hayward go elsewhere and pick up their game.
That's a Dom issue.
Guys can't understand the scheme or what their job is.
That's a Dom issue.
Guys don't even know they're supposed to be on the field.
That's a Dom issue.
Henry posted:We're being Schnelkered.
X4 Schnelkered while Jerry burns?
Michael Rodney @PackersNotes 53m53 minutes ago
Love it when know-nothings on message boards rip me for being too negative and then repeat my opinions verbatim a year or two later.
Brainwashed Boris posted:Nope. Eliot Wolf. But that's a long way away. Maybe TT will retire...maybe not.
MM needs to do something about the defense "mis-communication" issues.
MM has a big problem on his hands. Multiple problems. Superman ain't around to "get that fixed" for him anymore.
I am not one to say that the Packers need to clean house. I don't think MM has forgotten how to coach and I don't think the shape this team is in right not entirely a TT issue either. There is no way that he can forecast for the amount of injuries they have had. I think CUPACKFAN brings up a great point that the talent is there on D I also agree with the talent it should be a #10 D easily. I just think that the talent is misused or rather I should say it is terribly coached. An example from the Saints game when both Matthews AND Perry are out of the game when the other team is driving and you are winning? Why? Was it defensive play calling that had them both out? if so that is inexcusable. Consistently leaving the center of the field open for the other team's players to run wild through? that is inexcusable week after week and season after season. Running zone D when it clearly isn't working against QB's like Brees it is inexcusable. I could go on but I think everyone gets my point on my ramble.
Dom has to go it is as simple as that and the only house cleaning I see that is needed is on the defensive coaching staff.
Don't think MM has forgotten how to coach either, just think he may be approaching the point Andy Reid reached in Philly if he's not there already. Continue to believe that an NFL head coach has a limited shelf life in one stop of approximately ten years.
From my view - The D, specifically the DB's, looked like crap in the 2nd half. Bad angles, missed tackles, sh!tty effort. The Saints run game had the youngin's biting on PA.
Decent analysis today at JSO of the defensive deficiencies.
"Analysis: Poor pass rush at root of Packer's defensive problems"
Sacking Brees once and hitting him three times effective equals his career average of less than 2 sacks per game. He’s incredibly tough to put on the ground. He always has been.
Pass rush wasn’t the problem Sunday. Secondary confusion, stopping the run, and Hundley not cutting it loose were the nails in Sunday’s coffin.
Brutal..
Andy Herman @SconnieSports 26m26 minutes ago
How many Packers does it take to get Mark Ingram down?! Almost 5 full extra yards after initial contact.
How many Packers does it take to get Mark Ingram down?! Almost 5 full extra yards after initial contact. Brutal. pic.twitter.com/pnyCp47nuy
— Andy Herman (@SconnieSports) October 25, 2017
Horrible..
Andy Herman @SconnieSports 2h2 hours ago
Everyone in man, Jones looks like he should be covering the TE, both 27 & 50 take Kamara & the TE is left wide open. Brees missed it.
Everyone in man, Jones looks like he should be covering the TE, both 27 & 50 take Kamara & the TE is left wide open. Brees missed it. pic.twitter.com/WpfCdlKBS0
— Andy Herman (@SconnieSports) October 25, 2017
There is nothing wrong with that coverage. Dix takes away Brees running with man coverage. Martinez drops down to force Brees to throw over him to Fleener with Brice helping. Drew knew he can’t make that pass with Clark in his lap. Clark was held by the way.
Its a good reminder that GB should play more man though.
Every time I see this thread reach the top of the forum, a part of me dies.
FC!
FC!
Without Rodgers to cover up for the missteps on defense, coordinator Dom Capers' unit was exposed for what it is: a subpar unit that may have fixed some of the problems that ended their season in the NFC title game last year but ultimately has too many other issues.
Been the story for years.
“That was kind of a gift touchdown off having 10 people on the field,” Capers said.
This defense isn’t good enough to give anything away.
Nice lackadaisical response there Dom.
A prime example of the attitude that permeates that entire defense, for years now.
Dom hates talking to reporters, always has. Old school guys are like that. Would rather stick to the X's and O's than explain things to reporters.
McCarthy had a comment the other day when a reporter asked about the scheme/play calling, MM mentioned MADDEN™ screwed this gig all up, used to be a lot easier.
I was willing to give Dom a pass last year when they didn't have any healthy CBs, but if you look at the talent on the defense right now, as many posters have said - the individual parts are much stronger than the whole and there is no starter right now that is at the Randall/Rollins/Gunter 2016 CB level or the Hawk/Brad Jones/Carl Bradford ILB level.
Mike Daniels and Kenny Clark are Pro Bowl candidates
CM3 is not what he used to be, but he is still a well-above average player. Nick Perry is a very good OLB.
Blake Martinez is the best ILB they've had in a while. Burnett and Dix certainly aren't players you'd be looking to replace. Josh Jones and Kevin King are very good players for being rookies and House is not the interstate highway that Randall was last year. Jake Ryan is not great, but generally you'd be OK with him as your weakest starter.
I don't really look at more than a handful of other teams and think their defensive talent is superior to ours (Seattle, Denver, Pittsburgh).
Add MIN to that list on D.
One of the problems in the secondary is they are still without a true #1 CB. Whatever shortcomings they had at the position when Shields was still active have been greatly amplified by his absence. KK is supposed to be the answer to that but it could be 18 or 19 before he is at SS's peak level and shutting down #1 WR's.
All the gaffe's due to miscommunication are not a surprise considering all the youth on the D. It may not always be the kids f'ing up but the vets are covering up for their inexperience. I'm sure it limits them at times.
Pass rush and pass cover go hand in hand and when you're struggling at both those positions you're going to get gashed. Biegel, a healthy Carroll and MAdams will hopefully inject a charge after the bye and you have to hope KK JJ and JH start showing improvement by late Nov. Unfortunately that could be too late for our post season goals but there is a whole other side of the ball to deal with that too.
I know the speed of the game is different than the college level, but most these kids come from top schools that run complex pro like systems. I'd think the mental part of the game would not be that hard to grasp. I'm not sure the communication issues are due to youth as much as they are a DC who has a whacked out scheme and doesn't teach it well. Dom reminds me of a tenured college professor lecturing from yellowed notes with no care in the world if the seats are vacant or occupied.
Five years ago, I started a thread here about how Capers needed to go, and got laughed out of town. "Dumbest post of the year".
https://packers.timesfour.com/...ye-dom-capers?page=1
I said then that guys on defense couldn't tackle. They exhibited poor fundamentals. Our cover guys were ten yards off the receivers.
Fast forward to October of 2017. Maybe you can say that the level of talent then wasn't what it needed to be. Look at what we have now. There's some pretty strong talent on the defensive side of the ball. How many players in the last six years have been drafted for defense in the top three rounds?
The players come and go. The same issues keep presenting, regardless of who's on the field. Look at all the playoff losses. Sixteen games in the post season with Aaron Rodgers. Twice the Packer D has allowed 30 +, and 40 + three other times. In seven playoff losses, Packer opponents have scored 254 pts. Take off six for the Rodgers fumble return TD by the Cardinals in 2009. 248 points. Capers' D has surrendered an average of 35.4 ppg in our playoff losses in the Aaron Rodgers era.
Know how many times the New England Patriots defense have given up over 35 points in the Tom Brady era? In 34 games? Once. One time. Do you think Dom Capers would still have a job in New England had his defense failed time and time again? The Pats have only given up 30 + three times in 34 games! Less than 9% of the games Brady's played in the playoffs have seen his opponent get 30 points. Rodgers sees it 31% of the time.
I had no problem with being called out back then. Maybe it was premature. But those issues never get fixed. And it's clear to Stevie Wonder that Dom needs to go.
x4 never forgets
I tried to not get in the FU Dom angry horde....
5 years ago you were wrong.
Bringing up the post now, doesn't make you "right" same as "know nothing" Michael Rodney.
Up to that point with the information we had in 2012, players were not doing their job. Defense ranking was high that year. 7th in points allowed.
Now, in 2017, I don't believe that to be the case. 5 years older & Dom's wizardry schemes have become stale & predictable along with "communication issues" & a seeming lackadaisical approach from our DC. Why? Because no matter what Dom does he knows he won't be fired.
Dom should've been terminated after the 2014 NFC CG. Saying you're some kind of soothsayer & could read the tea leaves by using 20/20 hindsight ain't going to wash on x4.
lambeausouth posted:Five years ago, I started a thread here about how Capers needed to go, and got laughed out of town. "Dumbest post of the year".
5 years ago, Dom Capers finished that year with the 11th ranked defense in points allowed, 11th ranked in total defense, ranked 4th in the NFL in sacks, and Capers was 2 seasons removed from winning a Super Bowl as a DC.
If he had held those numbers moving forward, Rodgers and the Packers would have one at least another Super Bowl, possibly 2 and this thread wouldn't exist.
To fire Capers, at that time. indeed would have been dumb. Incredibly Dumb.
It's easy for the Michael Rodney's of the innerwebs to crow over how he's been pounding his fist since 2011 how much Capers sucked, but the reality is if the Packers had indeed fired Capers after either 2011 or 2012, the Packers organization would have been the ones "laughed out of town".
packerboi posted:lambeausouth posted:Five years ago, I started a thread here about how Capers needed to go, and got laughed out of town. "Dumbest post of the year".
5 years ago, Dom Capers finished that year with the 11th ranked defense in points allowed, 11th ranked in total defense, ranked 4th in the NFL in sacks, and Capers was 2 seasons removed from winning a Super Bowl as a DC.
If he had held those numbers moving forward, Rodgers and the Packers would have one at least another Super Bowl, possibly 2 and this thread wouldn't exist.
To fire Capers, at that time. indeed would have been dumb. Incredibly Dumb.
It's easy for the Michael Rodney's of the innerwebs to crow over how he's been pounding his fist since 2011 how much Capers sucked, but the reality is if the Packers had indeed fired Capers after either 2011 or 2012, the Packers organization would have been the ones "laughed out of town".
The Packer defensive rankings were great in 2009, too. How'd we end our season? By surrendering 45 points to the Cardinals. That loss came three weeks after Capers' defense gave up 472 yards passing to Ben Roethlisberger. In the 2011 playoffs, we gave up 37 to the Giants. Two weeks after I made the thread I referenced, that 11th ranked defense surrendered 45 points again in another playoff loss, this time to the Niners.
45+37+45. When your defense is giving up 42 ppg over three playoff losses, I don't care what the regular season rankings show. What I do care about is how our defensive coordinator adjusts for the big games. And Capers, outside of 2010, has shown an inability, time and time again, to make the necessary adjustments. I don't claim to be a soothsayer, and there are plenty of posters here who know more about defensive football than I will ever know. All I can see is results, and our Capers-led defense has fallen on its face time every single time we needed it. And every year we lose in the playoffs because of him, the window of opportunity with arguably the best quarterback in NFL history closes just a little more. That Capers is still here after getting destroyed by Atlanta last year is baffling.
Who cares if the Packers would have been laughed at for firing Capers then? History has shown it would have been the right move.
Nice that you cherry pick stats to try & make your point.
Just because, 5 years later, most of us agree Dom needs to go, doesn't make it right back in 2012.
lambeausouth posted:The Packer defensive rankings were great in 2009, too. How'd we end our season? By surrendering 45 points to the Cardinals. That loss came three weeks after Capers' defense gave up 472 yards passing to Ben Roethlisberger.
Pretty sure Big Ben went over 500 in that game, but I do agree with your larger point. Defensive numbers in '09 weren't that bad but they couldn't hold up against the better QBs.
I said in 1982 Bart Starr should be fired and nobody payed attention to my whining bitch of a back seat driver post.
Jesus ****. Really?
Have to agree, LS was dead wrong on Capers.
Now, if he started that thread a year earlier, We'd have 2 more superbowl rings (one for sure).
In other words, he was accurate, his timing was off.
It's not about his timing or Capers sucking balls. It's about being one of those whiny tools about a friggin' post. Nut up for Christ's sake.
"Somebody said bad things about me 5 years ago".
Henry posted:I said in 1982 Bart Starr should be fired and nobody payed attention to my whining bitch of a back seat driver post.
Jesus ****. Really?
I saw that post! It was on a 16 color BBS msg board.
