Daniels hasn't been as disruptive but he and Clark are a big reason Martinez is staying clean and making plays.
Henry posted:It's not about his timing or Capers sucking balls. It's about being one of those whiny tools about a friggin' post. Nut up for Christ's sake.
"Somebody said bad things about me 5 years ago".
It has absolutely zero to do with what somebody said about me 5 years ago. I've admitted that in the past, I absolutely deserved the ball busting I received. That was a long time ago, and I'd like to think that I've grown up.
The original post I referenced was about Dom Capers defensive regression with each new team he would go to. I'm not going to pull up his history now, but his defensive units had a proclivity for starting off strong, and then badly regressing. And quickly. My post was made with this in mind. The Packers were very good in the regular season of 2009. In 2010, they were #2 in the NFL in scoring defense. In 2011? We had an historically bad pass defense. Part of that (and to what degree is debatable) could be directly attributed to the loss of Nick Collins. Tyrone Williams, if my memory serves me correctly, also played the entire season with basically one arm. I think he wrecked his shoulder (?) in week 2 or 3. The problem is that the defense didn't really improve after the post I referenced was made. A few days later, we got embarrassed in the playoffs again. The overall stats might have rebounded after 2011, but we still performed abysmally against top tier offenses.
I'm not cherry picking stats. I don't need to. I stand by my statement that Capers needed to go. You all can disagree with that (and do), and I respect your opinions. What I do know is Capers has been given a plethora of high draft picks for his unit. We've drafted enough cornerbacks and safeties where the pass defense should no longer be the steaming pile of cow flop it is. But time and time again, no matter who is back there, the really good QBs torch us. And after a while, the injuries excuse starts to lose its luster. All teams have injuries. The good ones find ways to adjust to their remaining strengths.
I'm tired of watching our Dbacks refuse to play physical football. Randall doesn't even want to hit a guy. They line up ten yards off the receiver at the snap, and then they're trying to play catch up. By the time they get back to the man they're responsible for, the ball's been caught with the receiver running at full stride. Or, the coverage has been blown because somebody didn't rotate, and pick up a guy the original cover man released. Shouldn't that kind of physical play-avoidance be discernible from game film prior to the draft? Just this week, Mike Daniels talked about the Packer defense, and referenced the old Lions D with Suh and Fairley, saying we needed to get some of that same disposition, without resorting to dirty play. The Packer D has no mean streak to it. It doesn't intimidate anybody. We've become lax because no matter how poorly the D plays, Aaron Rodgers will bail us out. Only, now he's out.
Rodgers won't be around forever. He's the most accurate QB in the league's history, and yet with the toughest position in all of professional sports being played at the highest level ever, the Packers have only made it to one Super Bowl since Rodgers took over as starter in 2008. A 4:1 TD pass to interception ratio is mind boggling. Nobody has ever taken care of the football better than #12. The only other guy with even a 3:1 ratio is Tom Brady, and he has five rings. Why? Because he's had consistently great defenses to help him.
We don't even need a great defense. Rodgers doesn't require the '85 Bears, the Ravens units of the early 2000s, the Steel Curtain or Buddy Ryan Eagles with Reggie White, Jerome Brown, Seth Joyner et all. A good defense that consistently has tight coverage, and gets pressure on the QB, would go a long way in getting us back to the final game of the season. Yet one embarrassment after another comes and goes, and nothing changes. Falcons nearly put up 50 against us in the NFC Championship Game? No problem, Dom. Come back next year. Kaepernick sets an NFL record for most rushing yards by a quarterback in a game, and the Niners destroy us? Hey, it happens. Eli Manning turns into Dan Marino with 330 yards passing and 3 TD throws, a couple weeks after we beat the same team in the regular season? That one should come with an asterisk, as team was reeling from the loss of Joe Philbin's son. But the defensive performance--would it have been much better had that not happened?
The Packers are the greatest franchise in American pro sports. I put them on equal footing with the Yankees. I want to see some accountability. I remember the early years when we had Rich Campbell, David Whitehurst, et all, before Dickey came along and made the offense sing, for at least a while. I know how hard it is to find a Hall of Fame QB. Ask fans in Cleveland, Minneapolis, and a hand full of other NFL cities how difficult it is. I know we get lower picks in each round because we are in the playoffs every year. But the Patriots are in the same position. Replicating their success is something each team wishes they could do. But we don't even need the defense to be as good as New England's.
I don't know. I'm probably grasping at straws. I'm just frustrated. I know we all are.
I'd suggest starting out your post "Here's some interesting stuff I mentioned awhile back" or even "Some of us have been saying this for a while you bunch of turd knockers". Choose your genre, don't cry like a bitch. Thee end.
Somebody says a bad thing about pretty much every hour on the hour.....but, that's just my family.
Tom Oates: Packers' season rides on defense finally stepping up
Again, the measure of a coach is what he does with what he has. No one should give Thompson a free pass, but at this point the onus is squarely on Capers to take this group of players and mold them into a defense that can help the Packers win. The season depends on it.
Tough but fair column from Oates.
I personally believe there is enough talent and scheme on the offensive side of the ball to get this team to 10-6. The defense negates that claim.
That is the crux and quite simply the most disappointing aspect of the season. When Rodgers is gone the Packers are going to need innovative coaching and GMing to stay competitive. I've been a big fan of TT's method but even I can see this team needs to be more nimble, to wit he has shown this offseason. Yet, it's also foolish to think everything should be thrown out. There needs to be a fusion of tried and true methodology with SOME innovative thinking in both the FO and coaching ranks. That includes knowing when to cut dead weight.
One thing people should be aware of when criticizing TT is the absolute amazing pedigree of the GMs coming out of this system. You don't throw that away. As far as coaching, I don't believe there is anything MM is running that isn't replaceable. Great FO, great team. I think we have that. Only The Wizard could totally **** that up.
Henry, I also believe that the offensive talent is there to make this team about 10-6 but as usual it will be the defense that lets this team down. Now I will give TT a pass for the most part because I do believe he has given Dom the tools to work with but he continues to disappoint. Far too often they let the other teams receivers run free over the middle, they fail adjust to a player that is just wearing them out, they play with no nastiness, and get pushed around a lot etc.
I have never been one to call for someone to be fired but I truly believe that until they truly fix the Dom situation this defense will never change.
I would also add is there even one defensive coach who you'd think "they may bring something to the table as DC"? Nope.
We shall see tonight if this O looks like it has the talent to go 10 and 6. I was of that opinion before the Saints game but something was missing. They have had 2 weeks to figure it out and come up with a game plan suited to the current personnel.
As Jerry Burns so eloquently put it "big knockers got to knock". Jordy, Cobb Adams and the tackles need to play better.
Its Detroit man....
Pikes Peak posted:I was of that opinion before the Saints game but something was missing.
Possible MM's assessment of the QB is off just like it was with Graham Harrell. Looking forward to seeing how the team plays on both sides of the ball when they don't have the franchise QB to carry them.
Henry posted:I would also add is there even one defensive coach who you'd think "they may bring something to the table as DC"? Nope.
I don't think there is 1 defensive coach that would get a job on another team - Maybe Perry? Turgo has bounced around the league quite a bit.
Jim Leonhard as DC - Sorry Badgers, we need him in Green Bay
It’s a given that Capers sucks. But it’s important to note that GB doesn’t have a WR or TE in the top 40 in receptions or yards after 8 weeks.
The entire coaching staff under MM has a general whiff of stagnation similar to this time last year.
Indy and SF both have two recievers in the top 40 in yards and receptions. Bennett and Kendrick’s aren’t top 90 yet TE Jack Doyle is 6th in the NFL in receptions with their complete collection of pure suck at QB in Indy.
Edgar Bennett needs to be better.
The entire coaching staff under MM has a general whiff of stagnation similar to this time last year.
You can bet Darius Slay and his mates fully expect McCarthy to trot out the ever predictable 11 personnel groups tonight - on a regular basis. Coaching matters.
Hope Mike has a more versatile game plan in store.
Capers is out of touch. But no doubt Thompson has missed the mark since his early talent acquisition success. You go from hitting in the draft, key FA, and successful UDFA development, to missing the mark in each area, its going to effect the defense. Time to get younger - several retirement parties at 1265 !!
justanotherpackerfan posted:Somebody says a bad thing about pretty much every hour on the hour.....but, that's just my family.
F you for posting that.
Jerk.
Who has next hour? 
If you don't post here to be insulted, where do you usually go?
Tom Oates: Packers' season rides on defense finally stepping up
Then the season is doomed. 
Hungry5 posted:
The difference between the 2010 personnel and the 2011 personnel was basically two players - Cullen Jenkins and Nick Collins.
DH13 posted:If you don't post here to be insulted, where do you usually go?
So what you’re saying is x4 is the Dicks Last Resort of football boards?
MP
Getting Burnett back should help tonight.
Really the same story it's been for years- the better QBs absolutely shred the defense.
Hungry5 posted:MP
Getting Burnett back should help tonight.
In theory
Gruden's comments about (paraphrased) "it's like the Loins knew what defense the Packers had called" was extremely telling.
He was saying it in jest, yet it has a loud and clear ring of truth to it.
Matthews and Perry should be embarrassed. They were invisible
#Lions 3rd-down conversions:
— Michael Cohen (@Michael_Cohen13) November 7, 2017
3-14 (penalty)
3-10 (16 yds)
3-3 (17 yds)
3-3 (15 yds)
3-5 (13 yds)
3-7 (17 yds)
3-10 (23 yds)
3-5 (13 yds)
michiganjoe posted:#Lions 3rd-down conversions:
— Michael Cohen (@Michael_Cohen13) November 7, 2017
3-14 (penalty)
3-10 (16 yds)
3-3 (17 yds)
3-3 (15 yds)
3-5 (13 yds)
3-7 (17 yds)
3-10 (23 yds)
3-5 (13 yds)
#domCapersisanOUTSTANDINGfootballcoach
#thanksted
These defensive players have completely given up on this defense. They have no interest in playing for Dom. It's quite obvious. The talent is there.
Unless a change is made.... 4-12. Unfortunately I'm not joking
Brainwashed Boris posted:These defensive players have completely given up on this defense. They have no interest in playing for Dom. It's quite obvious. The talent is there.
Unless a change is made.... 4-12. Unfortunately I'm not joking
The players gave up on Dom a long, long time ago.
However, without ARod around to cover up their play, the schism between Dom & the players is now apparent for all to see.
SteveLuke. You have no thoughts of a solution. You just bitch. That makes you a disposable cumrag.
ChilliJon posted:SteveLuke. You have no thoughts of a solution. You just bitch. That makes you a disposable cumrag.
You want solutions?
Pretty sure I started this thread to point out just how ridiculous the head coach was when he, right after his D got its arses handed to them in the NFC Championship in Atlanta, showered Capers with unqualified praise.
The solutions are obvious and have been for some time.
As for you my poor, poor Chilli, just because ARod's injury is showing the world just how bad the roster is that your beloved TT put together and what an average head coach MM truly is, no need for name calling.
It is so unseemly.
Now, go back to gazing fondly at your framed and autographed TT & MM pics and get a good night of sleep.
After all, you've got to rest up for the big game in Chicago for the division basement this weekend.
Indy is 3-6 without Andrew Luck. With him team graded out at 8-8. Do you consider MM to be a better coach than Chuck Pagano? Is GB a more talented team than Indy? Then again how does MN win with backup QB? Defense...
Steve Luke - You have NFI what you're talking about when you say TT put together a bad roster.
There is nothing wrong with the roster. I'll bet Hue Jackson of the lowly Browns can get more out of this roster.
How many top 3 round draft picks on this defense? Every single starter except Daniels yes? How many first rounders? There is nothing wrong with the roster put together by TT. These players have given up because trying is pointless in their minds. This ain't fantasy football. Oh yeah, MM's hand-picked 3 year project at QB is $#!T too. The QB room is fine! 
The entire coaching staff needs to be looked at especially if MM doesn't do anything about the defense. The players know these coaches aren't going anywhere. They're all earning a paycheck regardless of what happens on the field....Ahhhhhh......just kick back....R-E-L-A-X and collect a fat paycheck. Who cares about winning?
Thanks for the Super Bowl....but **** Dom Capers.
Jim Leonhard for DC ---- NOW!
SteveLuke posted:ChilliJon posted:SteveLuke. You have no thoughts of a solution. You just bitch. That makes you a disposable cumrag.
You want solutions?
Pretty sure I started this thread to point out just how ridiculous the head coach was when he, right after his D got its arses handed to them in the NFC Championship in Atlanta, showered Capers with unqualified praise.
The solutions are obvious and have been for some time.
As for you my poor, poor Chilli, just because ARod's injury is showing the world just how bad the roster is that your beloved TT put together and what an average head coach MM truly is, no need for name calling.
It is so unseemly.
Now, go back to gazing fondly at your framed and autographed TT & MM pics and get a good night of sleep.
After all, you've got to rest up for the big game in Chicago for the division basement this weekend.
Oh you filthy ****. You best stick around this time. And listen to how things end. Again.
Brainwashed Boris posted:Steve Luke - You have NFI what you're talking about when you say TT put together a bad roster.
How many top 3 round draft picks on this defense? Every single starter except Daniels yes? How many first rounders? There is nothing wrong with the roster put together by TT. These players have given up because trying is pointless in their minds. This ain't fantasy football. Oh yeah, MM's hand-picked 3 year project at QB is $#!T too. The QB room is fine!
The entire coaching staff needs to be looked at especially if MM doesn't do anything about the defense. The players know these coaches aren't going anywhere. They're all earning a paycheck regardless of what happens on the field....Ahhhhhh......just kick back....R-E-L-A-X and collect a fat paycheck. Who cares about winning?
Thanks for the Super Bowl....but **** Dom Capers.
Jim Leonhard for DC ---- NOW!
First Boris, Capers should have been fired after the debacle in the playoffs against SF after the 2012 season.
You'll get no argument from me about the players not responding to Dom's defensive instructions.
And I also think the D should be much better than it is with the roster TT has provided Dom with.
But about that roster.
Let me see, Quentin Rollins was a 2nd round pick I believe. Guess what, Rolliins was a 2nd round bust who lacked the physical ability to play CB.
And Kyler Fackrell was top 3 round pick, right?
Can you conjure up any defensive coordinator who might be able to hide all of Fackrell's deficiencies so he might look like an actual NFL player, because I can't.
And TT decided that Fackrell was going to replace Peppers all offseason, until he was so bad in training camp, TT got desperate and brought in Brooks.
How have Fackrell and his ZERO sacks worked out.
Again, don't get me wrong, Dom sucks and should have been fired long ago.
Finally, regarding Hundley, yes MM's handling of Hundley makes all those claims that he is a quarterback whisperer look ridiculous.
But let me ask you this, who traded up to pick Hundley in the 5th round? Ron Wolf?
And who, after seeing Hundley in Green Bay for 2 full seasons, decided Brett needed to be the #2 QB in 2017, instead of going out and getting a veteran QB and despite the fact that the team had plenty of cap room to spare? Tom Braatz?
The roster looks like crap without the all-world quarterback and the GM gets all the "credit" for putting that roster together.