He needs to bring back the two guys on a motorcycle to practice with.
antiworst posted:Positives: Fighting cancer but still here posting.
Negatives: Gotta go back for another treatment today.
Rodgers was bad, but we still won. Not sure if that's a positive or a negative.
Wishing you the best. Beat that f'n disease.
phaedrus posted:Hungry5 posted:Has he become much more inaccurate?
Yes.
Brilliant response.
antiworst posted:Positives: Fighting cancer but still here posting.
Negatives: Gotta go back for another treatment today.
Rodgers was bad, but we still won. Not sure if that's a positive or a negative.
Be strong AW. Positive thoughts your way.
+
Fackrell, King, Martinez (back to back plays), Savage and Amos (though it won't show much in the stat sheet), Sullivan(again). Ervin is a nice spark in the return game and in the offense. Lazard gets better every week.
OL was solid.
Graham after that initial drop played better... but I'd rather they throw to Big Dog.
-
DL 1st half.
Rodgers off on the deep throws. I can see missing some, but he was way off on the majority of the 15 deep misses.
Jaire did not have a consistent game. His best play was the DPI.
ChilliJon posted:Rodgers sucks right now. It’s as simple as that. He’s got to play better. Nothing more to be said. Rodgers has to be better.
The misses lately seem to be more missed by inches (or a foot or so on the deep throws) vs early in the year where he was throwing balls that had no chance at even a great catch. I think he also tends to throw more balls away now compared to earlier in his career when he would either take a sack or run OOB. I think that tends to lower the completion % a little bit.
The passes that drive me nuts are the little screen passes that go a foot over the heads of the receivers. Those used to be automatic. A completion or a drop.
So maybe we get a few breaks on those oh-so-close deep balls (like the couple of good hook ups with Adams and Lazard) and he stops missing those gimme screen passes. Or maybe that doesn't happen this year in the playoffs. But he's going to continue to play it safe and throw the ball away when he doesn't see anything develop until we get into a situation like yesterday where we need to score late in a game just to catch up. High probability of that happening after the WC weekend.
Hungry5:
Funny how phaedrus, who made the initial proclamation, never replied to support his observation.
Yes, I did though it wasn't real substantive. Also, I am OK with contributions from the body of work provided by other posters.
My support has been what my own eyes have seen and especially given I have not volunteered a lot of examples, I am fine that you consider my alleged support lacking.
But, look at the many overthrown passes. I recall complaining about a pass last year against the hags where Rodgers was dumping a ~2 yard pass to a running back right in front of him. The pass landed on the ground maybe a yard in front of the receiver.
I am simply going by what I see. Not stats.
Again, if you consider that an unsatisfactory analysis, that's cool. No biggie.
Hang in there Antiworst. Positive thoughts heading your way.
We all love stats, especially the ones that support our position
Tschmack posted:Rodgers had a historic run from 2009-2014. Since that time, he’s been decent just not dominant. I also think he’s slipped since the Barr injury.
There is always something to be said for the talent around him but make no mistake about it. This year, he probably has the best pass blocking OL in the league and a dominant running game to compliment him. Adams is also top 5-6 WR IMO.
I also know stats aren’t everything but he had a QBR of less than 40 in half of his games this year.
Do I think they need a real TE and a real #2 WR? Sure. But it’s not like the cupboard is empty.
The biggest difference this year compared to the last 2-3 years is the addition of the pass rushers, MLF, and the run game. If you want to say Rodgers is a big reason they are 13-3 I guess but Z and Aaron Jones should have a word with you first. Adams and Rodgers certainly matter but 12 isn’t as nearly important as we all think he is. If he were playing at a 2010-2011 level I’d say this team would be the odds on favorite to win it all. They still could win it all but the odds are much lower.
What you are not accounting for is the historic lack of turnovers that Rodgers gives up. Sure, his accuracy problems are making him look like an average Joe right now. But average Joes throw a pick a game.
Out turnover differential is a big reason why we are 13-3 right now and Rodgers is a big factor in that.
Sometimes I think he takes the risk aversion too far, but that’s another topic all together.
Couple things. First and foremost. I’m looking forward to reading your snarky backhanded compliment posts for a long time Antiworst. You obviously ain’t afraid of mixing it up so you beat that shit down. Fuck cancer.
Mason Crosby. After his 5 missed FG game nightmare in Detroit last year. Followed up by his brutally personal 2019 it was a special kind of special to see him kick GB to a playoff bye in Detroit.
Timpranillo posted:
- Aaron Jones is legit one of the best 2-3 RBs in the NFL. They need to lean on him from here on out like the Bears leaned on Payton in the 70's
You seriously believe that? 2 or 3 best?
I think Jones looks fantastic to Packers fans because we have gone for decades without a dynamic player at the RB position. We are just seeing what someone can do that a dozen other fan bases see as well.
But there just isn't a chance that Jones is in the top 2 or 3. He's not better than Barkley, Chubb, Jacobs, McCaffrey, Elliott, Cook, Kamara and I could name a half dozen others I could argue for over Jones.
I love the kid but he's limited by the size and he isn't a great receiver out of the backfield. He's OK but I think he fights the ball in the air. But when he gets into space he's something that we haven't seen since Terdell Middleton, and I'm not kidding.
Even Ahman Green wasn't that dynamic guy. He was a pounder behind a great OL who has good top end speed. In space he had a hard time making guys miss.
Aaron Jones is really good but I agree top 2-3?
There are a lot of really good backs and he’s in that group because of his versatility and speed.
I will say this though - given durability and availability of options in the draft I would really think twice about paying him big money.
CoPackFan posted:antiworst posted:Positives: Fighting cancer but still here posting.
Negatives: Gotta go back for another treatment today.
Rodgers was bad, but we still won. Not sure if that's a positive or a negative.
Go fight AW!
Fuck cancer.
Antiworst,
You rock, man! You’ve got the whole of x4 rooting for you. You’re a member of our team and we can’t do it without you! I’m a grandpa too, and I know how strong that bond can be. Those little guys are counting on you, and we are too! God bless and rock on!
Aaron Jones quietly put up 143 total yards yesterday. He averaged close to 6 yards per touch. He’s close to 200 total yards and a TD if Rodgers was better yesterday.
Top 2 or 3? I’ll just say this. The very last thing I’m willing to deal with is this site talking about Aaron Jones someplace else the way this site talks about Jared Cook someplace else because GB never figured out how to use either correctly. Aaron Jones is a dangerous weapon and it’d be a huge mistake to let him go anywhere. Kid is a legit superstar.
Aaron Jones is another Emmitt Smith type running back in that he does things that defy logic. He can slip through the tineyest of spaces and usually breaks a good one when needed. That young man is gonna be just fine for us.
AtTheMurph posted:You seriously believe that? 2 or 3 best?
2-3 is possibly some post game exuberance, but I think he's in the top 5ish, yes.
But there just isn't a chance that Jones is in the top 2 or 3. He's not better than Barkley, Chubb, Jacobs, McCaffrey, Elliott, Cook, Kamara and I could name a half dozen others I could argue for over Jones.
In that list, I'd without hesitation take Kamara and Zeke over Jones. Probably McCaffrey, but he's also used very differently than anyone else. The rest are similar to Jones, but nothing I would call head and shoulders above him.
I love the kid but he's limited by the size and he isn't a great receiver out of the backfield.
He's never been targeted out of the backfield nearly as much as other backs. But there's no indication he's not effective in that role, he just isn't getting the opportunities based on the scheme of the offense and the QB. This year he averaged more yards per reception than McCaffrey and had 1 fewer TD than him.
I think he could be used much more like McCaffrey, and he'd put up as good, if not better numbers. I don't think he needs to catch 100 balls, but I'd like to see much close to 75/80 receptions vs the 50 he had this year.
There are 5 RBs in the NFL that 32 teams would kill to have in 2020. Kamara, Barkley, McCaffrey, Jacobs and Jones. Is McCaffrey being the leading receiver in Carolina a good thing? No. But his receiving targets being triple Jones total receptions represents how GB has elected to use Aaron Jones. Or not use him.
Aaron Jones put up 1,600 total yards and 19 TDs in 2019. And he did so without a lot of mileage. Aaron Jones is a 2,000 total yard talent if a team opts to use him that way. Never forget that. He’s really, really, really good.
My main issue with Rodgers is not necessarily the innacuracy. I'm more interested in how a decision is made from the sideline and what happens in the huddle and at the LOS. I think it's safe to say AR has earned the opportunity to check out of plays when he sees something he can potentially exploit. But at what rate is that a successful venture this season?
When they've been playing from behind or they're in tight games, the short and intermediate game mixed with AJ/JW run and short passes has moved the team down the field. We saw it again yesterday. When they need a drive and they shift to higher pct plays, they are able to move the chains in a fairly consistent fashion.
So is AR or MLF more likely to be reverting to lower pct plays that are seen as high risk/high reward? We know that approx 16 months ago, Rodgers had a big enough issue coming out of camp that he publicly ripped his WR corps. Does he know their limitations or doesn't he? Is he being thickheaded if indeed he's the one responsible for a missed opportunity with what the world knows to be a mediocre bunch? The issue with this dynamic is not that plays are missed. It's that they are missed to the extreme detriment of moving the chains, and sustaining drives.
It's one thing to look at a teammate and say "I'm going to challenge you to be better." It might also be that AR sees every next chance as the one that springs the well and opens the flood gates for everything to fall in place. It's another thing to KNOW what you have, and continue to force the issue to the point where now your game as QB starts to suffer as a result. If we can sit at home and see how average they are after Adams, shouldn't Rodgers know that 100 times over?
They had a vg 2-3 drives in the second half yesterday where they converted 3rd downs....Rodgers and his WRs converted....which says to me they are capable of doing certain things within the scheme. Knowing they don't have the GJ/Jordy/Cobb/Jones sixth sense, should Rodgers not understand what works and what is within their grasp and ability heading into the postseason? Dialing it back to sustain drives is complementary for your defense and special teams, and it's been during those times when this team as a whole has looked the best this year.
Had the chance to attend yesterday's game in Detroit with all our kids and their spouses. It was the first time I'd seen the Packers play a regular season game in-person since attending the first Lambeau Leap game in December 1993 (although I've watched some training camp practices since).
Some observations after watching a game in person that are less appreciated on TV.
1. Rodgers still makes 4-5 throws a game that only a handful of QBs can make, but almost all of them are to Adams. Some of those throws to Adams yesterday were dropped into tiny windows 30 yards downfield while he was bracketed by 2-3 guys. Then, he'll miss an easy throw to one to one of the other receivers. It might be due to the fact that Adams makes Rodgers throws look more accurate because he tracks the ball so well. Adams really reminds me of Greg Jennings. Fluid and runs great routes.
2. Watching pre-game with all the WRs in a group gives you an appreciation for how big Lazard is. He's a TE playing WR. Rodgers missed him once on a post route, but he goes and gets the ball when it's near him. He needs to be on the field as much as possible - and maybe get some TE snaps. He and Adams have catch radiuses that the other WRs just don't have.
3. MVS is the opposite of Adams - he's got faster straight line speed, but he has very little ball awareness. Even in warmups, he looks like he doesn't track the ball well in the air. On the one bomb to him in the second half, the ball looked decent in the air, but MVS didn't even seem to see it or adjust his route at all.
4. Good observation by someone on Jones about fighting the ball in the air. He runs great routes, which is very apparent in person, but he struggles to reach over his head to catch the ball in the air and struggles to track the ball (although he's better than MVS). The balls Rodgers threw to Jones that he missed all day show this. Rodgers threw some truly awful passes to Jones, but it's partially because he tends to throw them to Jones the way he throws to Adams. The pass at the end of the first half just required Rodgers to throw a soft lob to Jones since he would have walked in for a TD, but Rodgers threw it like Jones would continue sprinting full speed and catch in in stride. It's Rodgers' fault for not adjusting to his personnel, but Jones doesn't help because he often seems to jump for the ball instead of continuing to run through his route and catch it in stride. MLF is contributing to this because he is calling plays that require Jones to run go routes and catch the ball over his shoulder in stride. He's much better when you throw him bubble screens or crossing routes where he can catch the ball and run, rather than requiring him to track the ball in the air the way Adams or Lazard can.
5. Jimmy Graham runs and walks around in warm ups like he's 50 years old. He has no flexibility left at this point. It looks like it hurts him to bend at the waist. He looks stiff.
6. Having Veldheer around was a life saver. No more Jason Spriggs/Justin McCray types. A guy that can get you by in a pinch probably saved them from playing in the wild card round.
7. When Jones went down and got stepped on, it looked really bad at first. When they showed that replay in the dome there was a very loud groan because it looked awful, and Jones did not look good right after it. I was sitting in front of a physical therapist who saw the replay and said that he thought it was probably a fracture in the forearm since when his hand got stepped on it looked like he hyperextended his arm. They really dodged a bullet there.
MichiganPacker2 posted:
7. When Jones went down and got stepped on, it looked really bad at first. When they showed that replay in the dome there was a very loud groan because it looked awful, and Jones did not look good right after it. I was sitting in front of a physical therapist who saw the replay and said that he thought it was probably a fracture in the forearm since when his hand got stepped on it looked like he hyperextended his arm. They really dodged a bullet there.
Thanks for sharing that inside knowledge with us in the game chat topic. 
Aaron Jones is a special back and he is top 5 in the NFL. The KC game should tell you all you need to know about his receiving ability. But it is his running ability that makes him so good. He gets skinny to the hole, makes great cuts, can make people miss, and has such good balance. His speed makes him a threat to take it to the house at any time.
Pikes Peak posted:We all love stats, especially the ones that support our position
Never said Rodgers couldn't play better, or hasn't missed some throws we have come accustomed to him making.
Just disagreed with the idea he is "much more inaccurate" when the stats don't support that statement. He was off yesterday for sure.
Watching live any bad play seems like a trend or some ineptness by the player or play caller. When often the stats (and rewatch) don't support that.
Another ugly win. Rodgers struggled again - especially in the first half - but let's take a step back from this team and look at the positives:
- We have a top-10 scoring defense for the first time since 2010. This defense is capable of making plays and winning games for us, even when the offense is off.
- We arguably have top-5 players at both the RB and WR positions.
- We are the healthiest we've ever been heading into the postseason in a long time - certain the healthiest playoff team during the Rodgers era.
- We have excellent team chemistry. You can see that many of these players love each other. They love this team. I haven't seen chemistry like this on a Packers team in years.
- We have a gritty bunch. We've had multiple games in which they were punched in the mouth and knocked down, but they answered the bell nearly every time.
This isn't the most dominant team, but this team is solid all-around. They consistently find a way to grind it out and win. I've sat back for years and watched numerous Patriots teams win in a similar fashion. Even though I often said to myself, "Yeah, but they didn't look that impressive," in the end, I admired their ability to consistently win. This year, I've been doing much of the same with this Packers team.
Give me three more ugly wins, and this will be one of my favorite Packers teams of all-time.
Forgot my one big negative. None of you responded when I said I'd be at the game and wanted to meet up for a beer......
Henry posted:Fandame posted:Oh, I saw him last year as well, but most folks blamed it on the WRs (again), the staleness of MM’s offense, etc. But what’s different this year is that it’s much more consistent and his throws and reads are consistently worse than last year. Rodgers said earlier this year that he had to be more of a game manager. His head knows that, but his heart (ego?) doesn’t yet believe it. If that happens, he will lead this team a long way...
It would go even further if they actually had more than two legit WRs. I hope Sternberger shows something next year.
Who is the other one besides Adams?
Packers did not finish last in punt return average but did in total return yardage.
DocBenni posted:Forgot my one big negative. None of you responded when I said I'd be at the game and wanted to meet up for a beer......
I don't think it had anything to do with you, and everything to do with...
AtTheMurph posted:Henry posted:Fandame posted:Oh, I saw him last year as well, but most folks blamed it on the WRs (again), the staleness of MM’s offense, etc. But what’s different this year is that it’s much more consistent and his throws and reads are consistently worse than last year. Rodgers said earlier this year that he had to be more of a game manager. His head knows that, but his heart (ego?) doesn’t yet believe it. If that happens, he will lead this team a long way...
It would go even further if they actually had more than two legit WRs. I hope Sternberger shows something next year.
Who is the other one besides Adams?
I'm including Lazard but he's obviously a work in progress. I think he's a 3 in any other scheme but he probably should get some TE snaps too.
Happy for Lazard. Here's a guy Jacksonville didn't think was even worthy of their regular roster and yet he came to GB and became a significant contributor to a 13-3 team. Out of all the receivers the Pack currently has that are not named Davante Adams, he's the only one I'd definitely like to see back next year.
I know MVS has sucked but you need to bring him back through TC again next August.
Sometimes it takes some players longer to develop.
It would be a mistake to not have him at least in TC next year. If he continues to suck, he gets the AX in early September.
Jimmy Graham -- great locker room guy. Rodgers buddy. He's done as a player. That's a guy that needs to be told, don't even worry about showing up at TC unless you want to be on the coaching staff.
DocBenni posted:Forgot my one big negative. None of you responded when I said I'd be at the game and wanted to meet up for a beer......
It was the offer of a proctological exam that made us leery.
fightphoe93 posted:Out of all the receivers the Pack currently has that are not named Davante Adams, he's the only one I'd definitely like to see back next year.
I want to see St. Brown back. He showed more than MVS last season IMHO, we really don't know what he can do being on IR all this season.
I expect Gutey to almost completely overhaul the receiver position, and rightfully so. Adams is the only sure lock I see to be on the 53 when the season starts next year.
I really do think Gute will attack the WR/TE position with a vengeance this off season. I agree with the rest of you that Lazard and Adams are probably the only two that are safe at the WR going in to next season.
TE? I would think that Jace is the one guy who is safe but the rest? Maybe Tonyan I suppose.