I think the reason Dan Campbell owns MLF is because MLF is too pretty. Guys as good looking as me and my avatar have to overcome a lot of preconceived notions about our appearance.
Article from May.
https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/...nsistency-on-defense
Barry said, via Jason Wilde of Madison.com. “We’ve got to show up and play our best version of football, our best version of defense. We can’t be up one week and down the next. We’ve got to find that consistency and show up every single week. The last five or six weeks of the season, we found that. We don’t have time to waste 10 weeks. We’re in May. That’s what OTAs are for. That’s what the offseason is for. That’s what training camp is for. But we’ve got to be much more consistent than we were a year ago, week in and week out.”
Article from just before week 1 game.
https://madison.com/sports/pro...itter_WiStateJournal
“If you stay the same, you get passed by. The 2023 Green Bay Packers (defense) is going to be completely different than the 2022 Green Bay Packers. There’s no doubt.” - Joe Barry
It takes a lot of work to overcome the perception of being a Box Wine Beta.
It’s probably unpossible.
I don't think there is anyone, even inside 1265, that gave this year's Packers a realistic shot at the SB, and probably only a slightly better than 50/50 shot at the playoffs.
Lots of comments since TNF about moving on from Barry, and who do you replace him with... and, how waiting until the end of the season limits the retooling.
Win or Lose on MNF, if MiLF sees more of the same (refer to my previous post), I'd fire Barry on Tuesday. At some point the Barry anchor will sink LaFleur.
@GratefulPack posted:1) Bisaccia has not experience as a DC, I like the guy, but that seems foolish.
2) Why do people think Saleh will get fired at the end of the year? Seems to me unlikely.
3) I am not a Barry supporter in any stretch of the imagination and wished he was gone a long time ago, but at what point is it fair to think that maybe some of all those #1 draft choices on defensive may not be that good. I know the tackling on the team is horrendous, I get jealous watching teams like the Jets hit a guy, wrap him up and drive him backwards. I don't think anyone is questioning Clark, Jaire and Gary, but maybe the rest aren't as good as we think.
The Jets defense gets all the praise but in the game last night, they needed to stop the Chiefs one last time to have a shot with two minutes left. Instead that great defense let Mahomes run for a first down and put it away. If the Packers defense were in the same situation and let Mahomes do that, the coordinator would have been crucified.
Bisaccia has no experience as a DC. He also had no experience as a head coach before taking over for Gruden. The team ralied around him. It probably isn't that difficult. It doesnt matter. MLF is not going to fire Barry during the year and probably shouldn't anyway.
@H5 posted:I don't think there is anyone, even inside 1265, that gave this year's Packers a realistic shot at the SB, and probably only a slightly better than 50/50 shot at the playoffs.
Lots of comments since TNF about moving on from Barry, and who do you replace him with... and, how waiting until the end of the season limits the retooling.
Win or Lose on MNF, if MiLF sees more of the same (refer to my previous post), I'd fire Barry on Tuesday. At some point the Barry anchor will sink LaFleur.
Not sure what the real truth is on the hiring/keeping of Barry. Some have posited MLF has little say in hiring his DC and STC...not sure I believe that.
Best case he has full say, and is just too much of a pusscake to fire Barry after last years debacle.
Worst case, he's a beta cuck-boy and either the "GM" or God-forbid Alfred E. Fuckstick are far more in control of the coaching staff than is optimal.
While Barry certain has his warts, the defense this season hasn't been the primary reason for the losses...the offense has left them on the field a lot because of piss poor OL play. I get injuries happen to starters...you are not going to replace 69 and 74 with backups and not skip a beat...but the Packers are relying on consistently weak links...Newman, JRJ and Myers who have been in the system for years.
Yes Gutey gets gebins and credoes for guys like Zach Tom and perhaps one day Rasheed Wallace...but let us also not forget failures like Cole Madison, Stepaniak, Newman, Van Lanen, etc.
Watching the 49ers yesterday...yeah they have McCaffrey who is crazy good...but let's not forget that OL made Raheem Mostert a star. They just know how to D&D OL there...and until Gutey figures that out, this is about what we can hope for.
@michiganjoe posted:Agree with Herman's conclusion that this is an evaluation year and nothing is really gained by firing Barry now. Discussion since the Detroit debacle has really been about the defensive failures and the larger overall problem, the softness of the team. Dan Campbell owns MLF and the lack of toughness of the team is the primary reason for it.
I don't have 42 minutes so answer me this, why wasn't last year "an evaluation year?" Why would we expect anything different this year?
@Chongo posted:While Barry certain has his warts, the defense this season hasn't been the primary reason for the losses...the offense has left them on the field a lot because of piss poor OL play. I get injuries happen to starters...you are not going to replace 69 and 74 with backups and not skip a beat...but the Packers are relying on consistently weak links...Newman, JRJ and Myers who have been in the system for years.
This year isn't about wins and losses, it's about building for the future. What are we building on Defense? There is no improvment or promise displayed.
On offense, we see promise in the young WR's and QB. They have obvious holes on the OL that can be filled with FA when the cap situation improves.
Defense, it's not just about the holes at Safety. If we plugged in The safety tandem from the Seahawks glory years, I don't think it matters that much.
Herman's larger point (that I agree with) is that firing Barry midseason will satisfy a lot of frustrated fans, but really serves no useful purpose. If there's further deterioration in the performance of defense perhaps a change will be warranted but we're not there yet.
@michiganjoe posted:Herman's larger point (that I agree with) is that firing Barry midseason will satisfy a lot of frustrated fans, but really serves no useful purpose. If there's further deterioration in the performance of defense perhaps a change will be warranted but we're not there yet.
I agree that there isn't much gained from firing him in week 5 as we are not going to be a contender this year even if we found the next Buddy Ryan. Plus, Buddy Ryan isn't available mid season.
That said, the evaluation is over. He failed. Shit can him in week 14 to send a message to the players that we are serious.
Joe Barry on issue with run defense: "It's not one thing. It's one thing on this play, another this on this play...so it's a number of things."
— Kassidy Hill (@KassidyGHill) October 2, 2023
Well at least a thing here and a thing there messing up is an improvement from 2022 when all things were messed up.
The whole world knew going into the season with Barry was a waste. It might be time to show MLF the door as well.
@BrainDed posted:I agree that there isn't much gained from firing him in week 5 as we are not going to be a contender this year even if we found the next Buddy Ryan. Plus, Buddy Ryan isn't available mid season.
That said, the evaluation is over. He failed. Shit can him in week 14 to send a message to the players that we are serious.
I don't think it should stop MLF directing the powers that be to start looking for a better replacement. And I don't know about a set week for dismissal, because the defense could so rapidly erode as to justify canning him sooner. But I also agree with waiting to see if that happens. The offense has not been doing the defense any favors by packing it in for the first half of the last two games.
One other thing to consider. We know what the defense is capable of. It has performed admirably at times against good teams. So it's not like we lack the talent. That means it's on coaching and it probably means a lack of accountability which leads to inconsistent results by coaching which in turn points to MLF who took too long to get rid of one coach and allowed Amari Rodgers to return punts until it finally killed us. This is more concerning to me than just the DC. I you haven't noticed, ST has also taken a step back this year with the exception of our kickers.
Something's off at 1265 and we can speculate all we want, but we don't really know where the root of the problem is. Do Opie and Gute have a say in who MLF retains as his coaches? How much? Does MLF make all coach decisions? His comment on doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results, made me think, "He's finally going to fire Barry!" But the next thing you know, he's explaining it away as players, scheme, etc. Anything but coaching.
Is he that much of a softy who can't can a guy? Or do the other two silos remind him who's really in charge and that he has to work with Barry? As mad as he was after that Lions game, I really was thinking he was going to kick some ass and move on from Barry. If MLF is really that soft, then he's not HC material. If it's the other two silos, I'd keep Gute but get rid of Murphy -- and restructure the decision-making of the farm.
Is it tomorrow? If not, it's not soon enough.
Can him now. Make a statement to the team that we mean business and this year ain't over. 10 wins is the goal and Barry is in the way.
@lovepack posted:Can him now. Make a statement to the team that we mean business and this year ain't over. 10 wins is the goal and Barry is in the way.
I agree, but I don't think it's going to happen. If it were, after the Detroit debacle would have been the perfect time: a mini-bye, a Monday game, and then the bye. The new DC would have had one game in three weeks, and that would have been the perfect time to install a new DC. Yet, Barry is still here.
Unless the Raider game is schemed as poorly on defense as the Lions game, Barry will finish the year. If they lose to the Raiders because of the D, there might be a chance, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
@Boris posted:Murphy will be 70 soon and automatically removed. His 70th birthday can't get here fast enough.
Too much time left.
@Goalline posted:Too much time left.
LOL, he won't be 70 for almost 2 years. I'll make it next week!
@PackerRick posted:LOL, he won't be 70 for almost 2 years. I'll make it next week!
Congrats! I hope to get there someday.
lafluer’s failure to fire barry tells me all i need to know abut the direction of this team.
@Fandame posted:Something's off at 1265 and we can speculate all we want, but we don't really know where the root of the problem is. Do Opie and Gute have a say in who MLF retains as his coaches? How much? Does MLF make all coach decisions? His comment on doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results, made me think, "He's finally going to fire Barry!" But the next thing you know, he's explaining it away as players, scheme, etc. Anything but coaching.
Is he that much of a softy who can't can a guy? Or do the other two silos remind him who's really in charge and that he has to work with Barry? As mad as he was after that Lions game, I really was thinking he was going to kick some ass and move on from Barry. If MLF is really that soft, then he's not HC material. If it's the other two silos, I'd keep Gute but get rid of Murphy -- and restructure the decision-making of the farm.
Is it true that Leonhard was low balled and that is part of the reason he rejected offer? I do recall that when MLF came on, he wanted this top dog Teams coach and they low balled him. Don't recall his name.
Point being, it may be they don't say no to MLF, but they say no to the candidate with insulting finances.
Leonard is(was) 100% Wisconsin Badger and he thought he was a shoe in for that HC job. Had he known at the time he was offered the Packer DC job that he would get blindsided by the UW he would have taken the offer. Money would not have been a factor.
@BrainDed posted:Is it true that Leonhard was low balled and that is part of the reason he rejected offer? I do recall that when MLF came on, he wanted this top dog Teams coach and they low balled him. Don't recall his name.
Point being, it may be they don't say no to MLF, but they say no to the candidate with insulting finances.
I don’t know about Leonard. But the special teams coach MLF wanted was lowballed. He went to New Orleans - and has been doing well. That was mentioned during the Packers - Saints game.
It's an abomination that this man still has a job. Come to think of it, Matt Lafleur can pack his shit and hit the bricks. I'm tired of excuses and justifications for horrible play on the field.
MLF just seems like a guy the player don't fear. Sometimes you have to fire or cut a few people just to keep everyone on their toes. The team generally takes on the personality of the coach and MLF does not come across as a enough of a hard ass. Barry should have never been hired let alone get a second year. Now we're in year three and it could cost MLF his job. 2 consecutive losing seasons in the Not For Long league is justification regardless what he did previously.
LaFleur is going nowhere. The hard-ass coach thing sounds good but players can tune that out quickly. Kingsley Keke got shipped out because of attitude issues last year and Savage sat part of last year because of performance. What else do you want?
I want Barry gone too but watching various clips of defense against the Lions show players making glaring mistakes (cough, cough - Quay Walker jumping into wrong gaps), missing tackles, badly biting on fakes (Douglas), not getting off blocks. Those are mental and belly-fire issues. Not scheme issues.
@50k Club posted:LaFleur is going nowhere. The hard-ass coach thing sounds good but players can tune that out quickly. Kingsley Keke got shipped out because of attitude issues last year and Savage sat part of last year because of performance. What else do you want?
I want Barry gone too but watching various clips of defense against the Lions show players making glaring mistakes (cough, cough - Quay Walker jumping into wrong gaps), missing tackles, badly biting on fakes (Douglas), not getting off blocks. Those are mental and belly-fire issues. Not scheme issues.
On that goal line play where the Lions scored Quay sat back surveyed the field and walked through the wrong gap. It was awful.
Savage is a perfect example. He played so poorly that he got benched last season. Now he's on the field playing just as bad. So what's the message being sent?
I disagree on MLF not going anywhere. The team starts games as if they aren't ready to play. If that continues and the team wins 6-7 games I think he's in trouble. The fact that he's done nothing with Barry will come into play. Nobody was expecting McCarthy to get canned either.
@50k Club posted:Those are mental and belly-fire issues.
To me that's a coaching issue as much as a player issue. How do you think Campbell would handle these issues compared to MLF?
@PackerRick posted:Savage is a perfect example. He played so poorly that he got benched last season. Now he's on the field playing just as bad. So what's the message being sent?
I disagree on MLF not going anywhere. The team starts games as if they aren't ready to play. If that continues and the team wins 6-7 games I think he's in trouble. The fact that he's done nothing with Barry will come into play. Nobody was expecting McCarthy to get canned either.
Not to mention how he handled the special teams fiasco. No one fears MLF. He's a nice guy but he's soft.
@13X posted:Not to mention how he handled the special teams fiasco. No one fears MLF. He's a nice guy but he's soft.
He's the 2020s version of Norv Turner.
@50k Club posted:LaFleur is going nowhere. The hard-ass coach thing sounds good but players can tune that out quickly. Kingsley Keke got shipped out because of attitude issues last year and Savage sat part of last year because of performance. What else do you want?
I want Barry gone too but watching various clips of defense against the Lions show players making glaring mistakes (cough, cough - Quay Walker jumping into wrong gaps), missing tackles, badly biting on fakes (Douglas), not getting off blocks. Those are mental and belly-fire issues. Not scheme issues.
MLF is not going anywhere and is going to get the benefit of the doubt with this young team. Like him or hate him he is going to be on the sidelines for at least this year and probably next year.
I also would bet good money that behind the scenes he is on the defense and the defensive staff hard to get things straightened out. Just because he isn't chewing butt on the sidelines like Lombardi does not mean he isn't on top of things.
@PackerRick posted:MLF just seems like a guy the player don't fear. Sometimes you have to fire or cut a few people just to keep everyone on their toes. The team generally takes on the personality of the coach and MLF does not come across as an enough of a hard ass. Barry should have never been hired let alone get a second year. Now we're in year three and it could cost MLF his job. 2 consecutive losing seasons in the Not For Long league is justification regardless what he did previously.
I was watching MNF last night and although I’m not a big fan of the gum Smacker Pete Carol, he doesn’t at all seem like the kind of coach that players fear and yet he’s had plenty of success in Seattle. I don’t believe any of his teams have been considered soft either.
I don’t think MLF needs to be feared to be successful. Like it or not, that’s just not his style. He definitely needs to figure out something that gets better results though….preferably without Bary.
Barry is a joke but I am also sick and tired of hearing about the "eight first rounders" on defense. I don't care if they were drafted in the first round, they aren't that good. Savage plays like a undrafted free agent. I love Gary as a pass rusher but his awareness and run stopping are weak. Clark has been just ok so far. Is he fading? Wyatt is intriguing but maybe we would have been better served with a run stopper? Walker needs a brain. Rasul Douglas is more interested in picks (and foolish penalties) than playing overall sound defense. This D plays undisciplined and uninspired. I think the players are equally culpable as well.