Packers Defensive Coordinator (Sole Stealer) Joe Barry is FIRED!!

@The Crusher posted:

Barry is a joke but I am also sick and tired of hearing about the "eight first rounders" on defense.  I don't care if they were drafted in the first round, they aren't that good.  Savage plays like a undrafted free agent.  I love Gary as a pass rusher but his awareness and run stopping are weak.  Clark has been just ok so far.  Is he fading?  Wyatt is intriguing but maybe we would have been better served with a run stopper?  Walker needs a brain.  Rasul Douglas is more interested in picks (and foolish penalties) than playing overall sound defense.  This D plays undisciplined and uninspired.  I think the players are equally culpable as well.

We don't know if it's players or coach but it's easier to replace 1 coach then it is 8 first rounders.    Let's start there.    It's not like he is some highly sought after commodity and the Org will be kicking themselves like the Sox letting Ruth go to the Yanks. 

@The Crusher posted:

Barry is a joke but I am also sick and tired of hearing about the "eight first rounders" on defense.  I don't care if they were drafted in the first round, they aren't that good.  Savage plays like a undrafted free agent.  I love Gary as a pass rusher but his awareness and run stopping are weak.  Clark has been just ok so far.  Is he fading?  Wyatt is intriguing but maybe we would have been better served with a run stopper?  Walker needs a brain.  Rasul Douglas is more interested in picks (and foolish penalties) than playing overall sound defense.  This D plays undisciplined and uninspired.  I think the players are equally culpable as well.

I’m with you, lots of stuff in the news about overvaluing assets, we may very well be guilty of it too. At this stage, regardless of coaching, guys should be able to tackle.  It is also true that it is easier to replace one than 8.  Send him packing AND let the new guy assess what we have.

@bdplant posted:

I was watching MNF last night and although I’m not a big fan of the gum Smacker Pete Carol, he doesn’t at all seem like the kind of coach that players fear and yet he’s had plenty of success in Seattle. I don’t believe any of his teams have been considered soft either.

I don’t think MLF needs to be feared to be successful. Like it or not, that’s just not his style.  He definitely needs to figure out something that gets better results though….preferably without Bary.

Pete Carroll has had a ton of success and draws immediate respect from anybody entering the organization. He's also a lot more energetic and fired up than MLF. Players take on the HC's personally and there's a huge difference between the two. Even age and experience is a factor as to how a player views a HC.

Don't confuse fear with respect.

Respect is earned, and largely dependent on two things...success and confidence. Success breeds confidence...but before you are successful, you have to proceed with an air of confidence.

MLF has had a lot of success since he's been HC here...you'd think he would be brimming with confidence...yet here we are...he doesn't appear to be very confident...especially when under pressure.

The only time he seems "confident" is when he's busting balls of his very soft press corps. "I know you were going to ask that question Bill, and the answer is still the same. I'm not gonna comment," with a wry smile and a chortle. That comes across as inauthentic and makes me question if he has the right makeup to be an NFL HC? Does he have enough asshole in him? Which isn't to say just because you're an asshole doesn't mean you will be a good HC...look no further than the 49ers for that with Mike Singletary and Jim Dumbsula.

Whatever the case, MLF needs to find some legit confidence and have the balls to make changes to his team and to his staff...otherwise he's going to be back coordinating for someone else or coaching QB and the narrative will be "you were only successful because of Rodgers."

@Chongo posted:

Whatever the case, MLF needs to find some legit confidence and have the balls to make changes to his team and to his staff...otherwise he's going to be back coordinating for someone else or coaching QB and the narrative will be "you were only successful because of Rodgers."

Agree. Whether there are eight first-rounders or not on defense, they still play undisciplined. That falls on the coaches and primarily the DC. Sometimes they come out uninspired. That's on the DC as well as other players and the player's internal fire. We've all seen the scheme where they need two yards for a TD, and we've got a pass defense alignment called or the soft zone that gives up five to seven yards automatically. That falls on the DC.

Barry is not cut out for this job, and if MLF doesn't get it straightened out he's an HCNFL: Head Coach Not For Long.

@PackerRick posted:

To me that's a coaching issue as much as a player issue. How do you think Campbell would handle these issues compared to MLF?

We don’t have a clue how Campbell handles player issues - unless there’s someone from that team who has experienced him with those issues and is willing to talk about it.  

And the issue of MLF being soft?  In 50 years of work, I always responded better to a leader who treated me with respect and honesty.  Unless some of you are the hard-ass leaders that you want MLF to be, I’m guessing the majority of us value respect and honesty from our leaders.  I live in the Philly area, and there’s a significant percentage of Flyers fans who think leadership is soft and they have to get back to the Broad Street Bully days.  No matter that the style of hockey has drastically changed - let’s just go back to how it used to be.  

@Chongo posted:

Whatever the case, MLF needs to find some legit confidence and have the balls to make changes to his team and to his staff...otherwise he's going to be back coordinating for someone else or coaching QB and the narrative will be "you were only successful because of Rodgers."

The thing the organization was most worried about was the Jordan Love would fall on his face and Rodgers would play lights out in NYC. Rodgers getting hurt took the latter possibility off the table and Love has looked like a legitimate NFL QB. MLF deserves a lot of the credit for developing Love into what he has looked like so far. Getting the QB wrong is usually what gets head coaches fired, and that's not been the case.

We've had a lot of discussions on this board about personnel and draft philosophies. The general gist is that, outside of QB and elite WRs (mostly a fast guy like Tyreke Hill or a TE that can threaten down the middle (Gronk) that forces the safeties to stay deep), you can cover up a lot of offensive talent deficiencies with scheme as long as your OL is semi-competent. Defensively, scheme is generally less important and you are more reliant on talent. If your CBs aren't fast enough or your pass rush lacks an elite edge rusher, you are more than likely going to fall short. We all loved Fritz Shurmur, but he was just an average DC in many of his stops before he came to Green Bay. Reggie White types (along with Butler, Sean Jones, and S. Dotson) make any scheme look good. Dom Capers looked incredible when he had Charles Woodson making plays.

Right now, outside of maybe Gary on occasion, the defense just doesn't have playmakers. They lack the guy that beats a double team and gets a sack on a critical down to get a stop. Other than Douglas, their DBs drop a lot of game changing interception opportunities. They have a lot of what looks like individual talent, but no transcendent playmaker. You could argue it's because Barry's schemes don't allow for anyone to be a playmaker, but I would bet if you put a Woodson or White type out there they make plays no matter what the scheme.

@Chongo posted:

Don't confuse fear with respect.

Fear has to be part of it, a player must have some "fear" of losing their job.....I guess it would be called accountability.

@PA green & gold posted:

We don’t have a clue how Campbell handles player issues - unless there’s someone from that team who has experienced him with those issues and is willing to talk about it.  

And the issue of MLF being soft?  In 50 years of work, I always responded better to a leader who treated me with respect and honesty.  Unless some of you are the hard-ass leaders that you want MLF to be, I’m guessing the majority of us value respect and honesty from our leaders.  I live in the Philly area, and there’s a significant percentage of Flyers fans who think leadership is soft and they have to get back to the Broad Street Bully days.  No matter that the style of hockey has drastically changed - let’s just go back to how it used to be.  

We're talking about the NFL, not 7-11. If you can't see a difference in attitude on certain teams compared to the Packers you're not watching very closely. The Packers are regarded as soft and that sentiment will grow if nothing changes.

This was the year where the Packers were transitioning on offense. Defense and special teams were going to pull their weight and then some. It's not happening.

@MichiganPacker posted:

The thing the organization was most worried about was the Jordan Love would fall on his face and Rodgers would play lights out in NYC. Rodgers getting hurt took the latter possibility off the table and Love has looked like a legitimate NFL QB. MLF deserves a lot of the credit for developing Love into what he has looked like so far. Getting the QB wrong is usually what gets head coaches fired, and that's not been the case.

We've had a lot of discussions on this board about personnel and draft philosophies. The general gist is that, outside of QB and elite WRs (mostly a fast guy like Tyreke Hill or a TE that can threaten down the middle (Gronk) that forces the safeties to stay deep), you can cover up a lot of offensive talent deficiencies with scheme as long as your OL is semi-competent. Defensively, scheme is generally less important and you are more reliant on talent. If your CBs aren't fast enough or your pass rush lacks an elite edge rusher, you are more than likely going to fall short. We all loved Fritz Shurmur, but he was just an average DC in many of his stops before he came to Green Bay. Reggie White types (along with Butler, Sean Jones, and S. Dotson) make any scheme look good. Dom Capers looked incredible when he had Charles Woodson making plays.

Right now, outside of maybe Gary on occasion, the defense just doesn't have playmakers. They lack the guy that beats a double team and gets a sack on a critical down to get a stop. Other than Douglas, their DBs drop a lot of game changing interception opportunities. They have a lot of what looks like individual talent, but no transcendent playmaker. You could argue it's because Barry's schemes don't allow for anyone to be a playmaker, but I would bet if you put a Woodson or White type out there they make plays no matter what the scheme.

Pretty much agree except for the team knowing that the QB is legit.  I think he just may be but lots of guys with only a few starts have looked like the answer.  

Much like baseball, let’s see him the second time thru the order.

I'm not concerned about Love, he'll only get better. But the defense has to be better than the opponent. Specials teams needs to return punts for TDs, not give them up. Giving up 24 points per game is not going to get it done. And it's not like we've gone up against the most prolific offenses.

A HC must always be honest, sometimes brutally so, with his players. He also must find a way to motivate them: play for each other; play against the world; play for revenge; play because someone else will be in your job, etc. The HC has to take the temperature of the entire team and know how to raise or lower it.

And here's where I think MLF fails: he should be a CEO-type of HC and not a CEO/play-caller. I think if he stuck to the CEO role, he would be a really, really good HC. He gives off more CEO vibes than guy-in-the-trenches fighting man. Having both playcalling and CEO duties is too much for him and not his strength.

I'm tired.
I'm tired of losing to sub-par teams, often in historical fashion.
I'm tired of listening to the same bullshit being repeated year after year.
I'm damn sure tired of seeing that same bullshit.
Most of all, I'm tired of Joe Barry.

One only needs to look at a few plays to see what a huge mess the defense is.
When the dust settles, that falls to one man, and one man only.
IDGAF if it "doesn't make sense", "won't make a difference", or "who else would be DC?", Barry is as incompetent as Capers was in his final years--maybe worse.

If MLF is too big a pussy to handle that, he can fuck off, too.

4 games into the season and the sky is falling. Fuck.

The Packers sucked as far as wins and losses in the 70s and 80s but I still enjoyed watching them because even though they were often overmatched physically; they gave it their all and they played with heart. The current team (especially defense) has far more talent than those old teams but are not nearly as fun to watch as there is no desire or spark and I blame that on the coach. They need someone nasty on that side of the ball who can kick some butt and get the whole defense fired up.

You know what we need right now? A really well written mission statement.

Where is 2006 McCarthy when you need him?

@GBFanForLife posted:

4 games into the season and the sky is falling. Fuck.

It's not 4 games.
It's at least 38 games by my count (17 in 2021, 17 in 2022, 4 this year).
Still can't stop the rush, still can't tackle, still have a soft pass defense.

Call me Turkey- Lurkey, but that still sucks by anybody's measure.

It is 4 games into the season.

@PackerHawk posted:

You know what we need right now? A really well written mission statement.

Where is 2006 McCarthy when you need him?

YOU CLEARLY APPRECIATE THE POWER OF ALL CAPS.

@GBFanForLife posted:

It is 4 games into the season.

5-3 or maybe 6-2 in a month. Let's talk then. Learning curve.

What I know: The DC isn’t very good at his job.

What I think I know:  The HC does not appear to be a leader of men.

So you’re saying they should be politicians?

I think they could address the pass defense pretty quickly by simply letting Jaire and Rasual line up and play more press coverage.  That won’t fix the talent gap at safety, but at least you wouldn’t see as many breakdowns in coverage.  

The run defense is a little more challenging as GB isn’t stout up front and our OLB aren’t great at holding the edge.  

I’d still rather see the defense giving up a big play over the top once in a while versus death by a 1,000 cuts.

@Tschmack posted:

I think they could address the pass defense pretty quickly by simply letting Jaire and Rasual line up and play more press coverage.  That won’t fix the talent gap at safety, but at least you wouldn’t see as many breakdowns in coverage.  

The run defense is a little more challenging as GB isn’t stout up front and our OLB aren’t great at holding the.  

I’d still rather see the defense giving up a big play over the top once in a while versus death by a 1,000 cuts.

When you have your 330lb NT rushing the passer on 3 and short no amount of stoutness will stop the run.

Or you're in nickel on the goalline against 3 tight ends with undersized edge guys on your side?

Exactly! This defensive coordinator is calling defenses against ghosts. The defense is so predictable that offenses know exactly what to do against it.

@Tschmack posted:

I think they could address the pass defense pretty quickly by simply letting Jaire and Rasual line up and play more press coverage.  That won’t fix the talent gap at safety, but at least you wouldn’t see as many breakdowns in coverage. 

Almost every game its the same thing playing the CBs at least 10 yards off  the LOS on a something like a 3rd and 3.  Shoot my old, fat, washed up ass, with no knees to speak of could waddle the 9-10 feet needed for the first down against Barry's defense.

I guess what I am getting at is that the Packers defense so often is a passive chasing style of play not taking it to the opponent like you need to on defense. 

“The Detroit Lions have heat for us. They playing their best game against us because they have never been in this position before. So it’s a different game.

“We got beat up front so bad that I am embarrassed. Don’t put nothing on Jordan Love. Don’t put nothing on the running backs. Don’t put nothing on the defensive backs. Don’t put nothing on the linebackers.

“We got beat between the tackles like mama came down the stairs and caught you doing something you had no business doing.

“We got embarrassed at home, up front, period.”    -   Gilbert Brown

MLF won't fire Barry now because although it would elevate some pressure, it would only serve to put the bullseye on his own back with an underperforming offense that taxed the defense. The D would now have an interim DC who is in over his head and neglecting his position duties as a result. What is obvious win in week 5?

Also Packers FO doesn't want to pay salaries of fired coaches.

Then it puts pressure on MLF

What the fuck has Matt LaFleur done?

He seems more interested in how he looks and doing local commercials than holding his goddamn assistants accountable.

This is an easy conversation.  Either he deals with that moron running the defense or he’ll be dealt with in short order.

Barry and MLF need to slow down and ask the fundamental question of football: how's the pad level?

They don't have the belly fire to do that.

Doubt there will be an in season change but if the D plays poorly Monday then right after that game and before the bye would be the time.  

I am sure that others have mentioned this but the team has drafted and picked players who are better pass rushers than run stoppers. This is on Gutie and Matt. So there is plenty of blame to share.

I've been thinking, maybe my negative opinion of Joe Barry is unfair.  I mean, he does come from the Matt LaFleur coaching tree...

Dagger by Duggar

So many questions:

1) Is the overall scheme bad?

2) Is the play calling inappropriate for the situation?

3) Are the players undisciplined and out of position?

4) Are the players as talented as we think they are?

5) Are the Lions just really, really good?

6) How can you have any pudding if you don't eat yer meat?

7) How many roads must a man walk down before you call him a man?

8) Who is on first?

9) How many licks does it get to the center of a Tootsie Pop?

10) What is the sound of one hand clapping?

“Roads are just a suggestion Marge, just like pants.” Homer Simpson

What about all those trees in the woods that no one hears falling?

Does a Barry sh*t in the woods?  I mean, they sh*t all over themself on a football field.

@JimBobDuggar posted:

I've been thinking, maybe my negative opinion of Joe Barry is unfair.  I mean, he does come from the Matt LaFleur coaching tree...

Call someone a pussy x4 and that goes into your permanent file.