@FinnLander posted:Apparently you believe that all a team needs to win the SB is stellar QB play.
Pay no attention to Jaymo....
Makes sense for both sides. Jets seem desperate, maybe Pack can get their first rounder. Or second rounder at worst.
@titmfatied posted:The only thing the Jets fans love more than the Jets winning is tearing them to pieces when they disappoint. The general delusional sentiment I gather is they're impatient and think they're a QB away from winning their 1st championship in 50+ years.
Rodgers isn't fun snark, he tends to lean into condescension. It wouldn't take long for it to get personal and combative. It would be entertaining but ugly. GB media tends toward professional and the team seems to exert a lot of PR pressure to keep them that way. The NY media is a whole different animal. They're comfortable being nasty and there's a cohort of TMZ level gossip rags that would be more than happy to needle him to supply fodder for the backpage antics.
I almost wish he'd go there so he could gain an appreciation for how well he's been treated his entire tenure in GB.
I don’t think that the Jets fans are the only ones who scream when their team does not win the Superb Owl. I read some of that here. Yet I do agree that mgmt has treated Rodgers like a king. But, why not? Four MVP’s have shown that he had talent. It’s the team (and perhaps coaching) around him that has left us short. His cap hit is killer. Except for what we pay Rodgers, Gutie has not done a bad job with the team’s makeup. Sure, he could have done better. But he also could have done a lot worse. I wonder what he could have done for the team without those constraints? If Love becomes the starter and Gutie has money to spend I see a vastly different team.
Thing is it will be a while before he has "money to spend"
People talking about Love like he’s a star in the making that just needs a chance are hilarious. He’s a completely unknown talent and the odds are heavily in favor of him being closer to Tim Tebow than Aaron Rodgers.
On a similar note, the amount of disdain thrown at Rodgers is ridiculous. Might be time to move on… might not be. But this hatred towards a career Packer and 4-time MVP is shameful.
@Pakrz posted:People talking about Love like he’s a star in the making that just needs a chance are hilarious. He’s a completely unknown talent and the odds are heavily in favor of him being closer to Tim Tebow than Aaron Rodgers.
On a similar note, the amount of disdain thrown at Rodgers is ridiculous. Might be time to move on… might not be. But this hatred towards a career Packer and 4-time MVP is shameful.
Yeah, truth be told, I’ve never been impressed with Love until that Phily game where he did look really good in a tough situation. It sort of reminded me of Rodgers’ relief appearance vs the Cowboys in 2007.
The one major difference though was that Rodgers was very impressive in pre-season 2007 (his 3rd year) and Love wasn’t as good as I had hoped in preseason 2022 (Also his 3rd year). He’s young and still maybe getting better. Pre-season 2023 will give us a better idea if the Philly game was a fluke or if Love truly has turned the corner.
The biggest allure of Love right now is that he will run MLF's offense with 100% loyalty...there will be no more checking out of things because "he knows better."
I, for one, am interested to see if there is any truth to that premise.
I don't think it's a stretch to say Love will never be as good of a QB as Rodgers. But you don't need to be to win titles. You can win if you're a top 10 QB and have a good defense. Rodgers has been top 2-3 QB most of his career and that hasn't gotten him anywhere. But you got guys like Stafford and Foles who have won a SB, and Ryan, Goff and Garappalo who have gotten there.
The problem with Rodgers isn't necessarily Rodgers. It's his contract. When you're paid as the top QB in the league, it's harder to sign the other guys who help you win. When you are paid as the top QB and your stats regress to that of a mid-tier QB now there are even more problems.
It's not that people don't necessarily want Rodgers at QB, they just don't want him at that price if he's going to perform like he did this year. It would be better to go with the cheaper option (Love) and build a solid team around him. Love doesn't need to be as good as Rodgers to win. But the team overall needs to be better and that's hard when your QB is eating $32m of cap next year (for comparison that cap number is the same as Douglas, Jenkins, Campbell and Gary combined).
It's not only the contract that's part of the problem with Rodgers, it's his energy for the game and his teammates. When they started play on Sunday, I wanted to see the same energy out of Rodgers that we saw when they beat Dallas and Minnesota, and even Miami. In those games, Rodgers was relaxed, smiling, running after plays, calm after guys dropped balls, etc. In the game against Detroit, he started with some of that but it quickly changed when they came up against some adversity -- the Jones fumble at the end of the first half. After that, Rodgers' demeanor went downhill. He became the guy griping when things didn't go his way, his body language was different, griping after dropped balls, etc.
While Love will almost assuredly never be as good as Rodgers, at this point I think the team needs a leader who is younger, more positive, and has more energy for the game.
Was listening to some idot on ESPN radio going on about Shanahan's "system," works with Purdy because any QB can run it.
Completely glossed over that the Whiners have one of the top 3 defenses in the NFL...makes it a lot more plausible to win QB's with a "game manager."
Also, what would 12 look like if he had Kittle, Deebo, McCaffrey and Aiyuk is the 4th best option in that mix?
33 you could say is a McCaffrey comp...but we have no Deebo, no Kittle and Watson will likely surpass Aiyuk on day, but is still a rookie. Hell, give me the 49ers D instead of Barry's crew and it's a different conversation.
Sounds like the object is to field a complete team.
@Chongo posted:Was listening to some idot on ESPN radio going on about Shanahan's "system," works with Purdy because any QB can run it.
Completely glossed over that the Whiners have one of the top 3 defenses in the NFL...makes it a lot more plausible to win QB's with a "game manager."
Also, what would 12 look like if he had Kittle, Deebo, McCaffrey and Aiyuk is the 4th best option in that mix?
33 you could say is a McCaffrey comp...but we have no Deebo, no Kittle and Watson will likely surpass Aiyuk on day, but is still a rookie. Hell, give me the 49ers D instead of Barry's crew and it's a different conversation.
I'd take the Niners defensive coordinator instead of Barry and it's a different conversation already. The Niners DL is much better, but the Packers have a better secondary and the Niners don't have a shut-down corner like Jaire.
Trade AR like should have been done last year when had high value. Let’s ride deal long gone. Will settle for a let’s walk type compensation.
Quit being a pussy Gutencrew you traded up for JLove give him the fuckin keys
it’s obvious same coaches and personnel guys are all back
kicking the can down the road and staying “competitive” ain’t working.
@Pakrz posted:People talking about Love like he’s a star in the making that just needs a chance are hilarious. He’s a completely unknown talent and the odds are heavily in favor of him being closer to Tim Tebow than Aaron Rodgers.
On a similar note, the amount of disdain thrown at Rodgers is ridiculous. Might be time to move on… might not be. But this hatred towards a career Packer and 4-time MVP is shameful.
Who knows how good Love will be, but I’ve seen enough to “know” we ain’t winning shit with Rodgers. Time to see what Love can or cannot do.
@Chongo posted:The biggest allure of Love right now is that he will run MLF's offense with 100% loyalty...there will be no more checking out of things because "he knows better."
I, for one, am interested to see if there is any truth to that premise.
This is exactly right. Rodgers insisting on doing things that haven’t won a chip in 13 years is getting old. Has gotten old! If your goal is to enjoy MVP winning REGULAR SEASON QBs, fine. I don’t give a shit about regular season awards.
If Love became the starter due to a change or injury to AR, does anyone think he would perform at a Purdy level?
We don't have much to go on with Love at this point, but I think he should at least be the equal of Purdy, if not better.
Love may be able to perform at the Purdy level, but the Packer defense isn't performing at the level of the 49er defense. 
@Iowacheese posted:Trade AR like should have been done last year when had high value. Let’s ride deal long gone. Will settle for a let’s walk type compensation.
Quit being a pussy Gutencrew you traded up for JLove give him the fuckin keys
it’s obvious same coaches and personnel guys are all back
kicking the can down the road and staying “competitive” ain’t working.
Who says IT ain't working?
Gutey & MLF got themselves lengthy extensions last summer and Murph announced he was retiring ... in 3 years.
Thus, the status quo is clearly working for the President, GM, and head coach.
Indeed, it is almost unheard of for an executives in corporate America to be allowed to announce his or her departures 3 years in advance -- no matter how the corporation's product or service performs in the interim. So kudos to Murph for being so, so secure in his position.
Furthermore, the evidence further reveals that the job preservation project at 1265 has been such a smashing success that 3-time loser Joe Barry will now have a longer stint as a Defensive Coordinator in Green Bay than he had during his prior failures in Washington and Detroit.
Super Bowls be damned, the Packer FRONT OFFICE is stable, secure, and self-assured and isn't that what is truly important?
To be fair, he HAS to retire in 3 years. He still could get canned in the meantime. 
To be fair, Packers bylaws say he has to retire in 3 years time. That is the only reason Murphy is retiring.
@SteveLuke posted:The second straight FART IN THE WIND ERA WITH A HALL OF FAMER AT QB IS OVAH!!
Time for Gute to get his boy Jordan on the field.
1 year anniversary of the start of this thread.
Any Packer fan out there think the Murph/Gute duo has the stones to move on from Rodge prior to the 2023 season?
@MichiganPacker posted:I'd take the Niners defensive coordinator instead of Barry and it's a different conversation already. The Niners DL is much better, but the Packers have a better secondary and the Niners don't have a shut-down corner like Jaire.
Niner's DC will soon be a head coach. He's excellent and would be a huge upgrade over Barry. I don't necessarily agree with you on your talent eval. Charvarious Ward is their top CB. He's excellent, plays the run game well and is a much better tackler than Alexander. Jimmy Ward is a stud you can move around, currently playing the slot. Hufanga is a beast and made the Pro Bowl in his second year (he was a 5th rounder btw). He's only going to get better. Our safeties are a joke at this point. Niners have had issues at CB#2 because of injuries. They also have the best MLB in the game in Warner and Greenlaw should have made the Pro Bowl.
@SteveLuke posted:1 year anniversary of the start of this thread.
Any Packer fan out there think the Murph/Gute duo has the stones to move on from Rodge prior to the 2023 season?
Gutey------YES
Murphy-------NO
@SteveLuke posted:1 year anniversary of the start of this thread.
Any Packer fan out there think the Murph/Gute duo has the stones to move on from Rodge prior to the 2023 season?
This all comes down to whether the FO thinks Love is "the guy" and/or how long they want to kick the can down the road (a rebuild becomes exponentially worse the longer it is).
If they think Love is the guy they *must* trade Rodgers this offseason. If they pick up Love's 5th year option and Rodgers plays this year, then in 2024 our cap hit at the QB position is ~$54m (~$20m for Love, ~$34m in AR's dead cap). That's not feasible.
The fact that they gave Rodgers this contract at all to me says the FO does not think Love is the guy moving forward (actions speak louder than words), or they wouldn't have hamstrung the team like this, but the contract does provide an out this offseason *if* Rodgers is traded (or retires), so it's always possible the FO always saw this as a one year deal.
If they don't give Love his 5th year option (in order to work the cap to your favor in 2024 by re-signing Love), you run the risk of losing him in FA if they let Rodgers come back this year. Then you end up with the potential of Rodgers retiring *and* Love going elsewhere in 2024 and you're probably drafting in the later half of the 1st for a new QB who will need to be thrown into the fire on day one with no real vet presence left on the roster.
One could also say, fine, let Love walk, don't sign his 5th year option, and let Rodgers start in '23 and '24 and deal with this later. But now you have $77m in dead cap from Rodgers contract spread between '25 and '26, plus whatever other cans you kicked down the road to build a team that AR even wants to play on, with some random rookie starting at QB while Rodgers *still* takes up most of the cap for two seasons while not even on the team.
I think the "stones" needed here are purely cap constraint ones. Their best option is to move on from Rodgers now solely from a cap standpoint, even if they don't think Love is "the guy". It at least gives them some breathing room in cap if they do, and if Love stinks then you're at least drafting in a higher spot and Love becomes the interim QB until we get a better rookie to take his place. And that rookie wouldn't be saddled with $35m+ of AR's contract eating up our cap every year for a couple years. A rebuild would be *much* easier.
I'll also point out that if they trade Rodgers it will most likely be before the draft which means *all* his dead cap would come this year, at $40m. This is $9m more than his cap hit would be if he played for us ($31m). We don't have $9m in cap space this year, but we should be able to easily restructure other players because it would mean we would have $21m in extra cap space in 2024 since we took the hit on AR's contract all at once. We could move that extra cap hit into 2024 and still have cap space left over in 2024 to re-sign guys, get better FA's, etc.
All the more reason that trading AR now is by far the best deal for the Packers. Plus we'd get draft capital in return. If AR plays for us this year, you're looking at a lengthy rebuild, no draft capital, lower potential draft picks, and a cap mess for years to come.
It seems almost every year we hear something about cap hell but teams are able to navigate through it without blowing rosters up.
@Pakrz posted:It seems almost every year we hear something about cap hell but teams are able to navigate through it without blowing rosters up.
Tell that to the Saints. QB contracts are unique in that they are high value and also mostly fully guaranteed now. You can't always restructure/extend them away, especially when a QB is at the end of their career.
The only way to manage them is to get a QB on his rookie deal to insulate the dead cap numbers from the previous QB, but we've wasted most of Love's rookie deal already.
@Pakrz posted:People talking about Love like he’s a star in the making that just needs a chance are hilarious. He’s a completely unknown talent and the odds are heavily in favor of him being closer to Tim Tebow than Aaron Rodgers.
On a similar note, the amount of disdain thrown at Rodgers is ridiculous. Might be time to move on… might not be. But this hatred towards a career Packer and 4-time MVP is shameful.
For an election denying, covid conspiracy spreading, 'beautiful mystery' hostage taker, who shows up when he wants and has won all of 2 playoff games in the past 5 years, I think he gets treated pretty well. I can't stand him, but I appreciate everything he has done for the Packers.
And on that note---how in the world is he able to say crazy things like: "If there's a rebuild ahead, I won't be part of it" --without people laughing at him. Should somebody tell him that if you bogart all the cap money, ya can't pay other players, thus it's got to be a rebuild? That's profound respect to not call him out for absurd comments.. Jeopardy doesn't have a lot of math questions. That works in his favor.
I see it as the Packers needing the chance to to evaluate Love, not Love needing the chance. If he plays like Tebow, move on.
You have to ask yourself - can the Packers win a Super Bowl in 2023 or 2024 with Rodgers? That's the only question that matters. If you believe this team can win in the next 2 years, then sure, bring it back with Rodgers. But after watching this team in 2022, I don't think that's reality. So I believe it's time to move on.
Now Love won't win a Super Bowl in 2023 or 2024 either. But could he win one in 2026? Or 2027? Maybe. And that's a better shot than Rodgers has in those years.
For the record and given the choice, I'd also opt to trade 12 this off season. I think he is still one helluva talent but I don't think GB can win a SB within the window he has left. That, and GB does need to figure out what they have in Love.
If GB decides to stick with 12 and ride it out, I'm good with that also.