Love Notes - 2023 Game 3 and up!

@13X posted:

I think the only one that missed the Lion game that is coming back is Jenkins as I believe Myers, Runyan, and Tom all played that Game but I'm going off of fading memory so I could be off a little here.

Tom wasn't near 100 percent and dealing with a knee. Runyan gets hurt and was playing on a bum ankle.

With Love, it's hard to judge his body of work when it's musical chairs with his OL, they are hurt, and the cherry on top is Bakh which has been a train wreck.

Now you have Jones still not 100 percent and dealing with a hammy tonight and probably doesn't play.

To get a real gauge on Love, you would need to have a healthy Jones, Watson, Musgrave, and Doubs. Then would need a healthy OL in front of him.

He's gotten none of that minus week 1 and we all know the numbers he put up then. And even at that, Jones was still under used and played 2.5 quarters.

@GreenBayLA posted:

Apparently Barry is as Barry does. 🤬

I’ve been calling for the  jet sweeps and motion too but maybe with the young guys and OL shuffle it was too complex? No excuse but do you add more moving parts? That said O slow starts and lack of run not working so…

In the Saints game they ran a nice little jet sweep with Nixon going left to right. I think it gained at least 5 yards. Not sure why they never went back to it even if you make him a decoy.

Hmmm. First 5 games

@ilcuqui posted:

Hmmm. First 5 games

There’s no room in this forum for facts or reasonable thinking!  The Packers were embarrassed on national TV yet again and it’s getting really old (losing by four wouldn’t normally be embarrassing, but it was against the Raiders….and national TV got to see Preston Smith covering 17…..and Savage injuring himself while trying to avoid contact.)

One thing about that comparison: both teams were young but AR ended up having a really good group of ball catchers (Gerg, Driver, Jordy, Finley, Jones)….There’s a lot of potential with Love’s receivers, but they have a sh!t ton of work to do if they’re going to be anywhere near as good as AR’s receivers.

I can see some good things in Love's game. The running. The ability to throw toward the sideline to guys on shallow routes with touch and in-stride. His timing is off; if he throws to Watson as soon as he comes open on the last play, Watson has an easy TD. Last night, the game was just too big for Love. He has to learn how to handle those big moments. He also has to learn how to settle down and get in a rhythm right at the start and not wait until the second half.

He also needs to improve his accuracy and MLF can help with that if he puts the reins on his QB and starts out making him simply move the sticks instead of trying all these shot plays.

How is MLF not watching the Niners and Lions do the exact same plays and not learning anything from that....Christ me or you can play the copycat game and coach this team using Ben Johnson and Shanarat plays. 😂😆

Last night the emphasis in the beginning was so much on the run that there were quite a few 3rd downs. With Dillon that's not really a great plan because most of his runs are 3-4 yards and you don't get that 2nd and 2 situation where the defense is caught in between.

Love does have problems with accuracy but he's not getting much help. He threw a deep ball to Watson which would have been on the money except Watson slowed down near the end of the route. Watson had a terrible night and really doesn't look the part of top flight NFL receiver. He doesn't appear to track the ball very well, run crisp routes, or compete for the contested catch. He looks more like a situation WR, a 3 or 4 guy, than a #1.

It appears that teams know the Packers can't gouge them with the run and are just using all out pass rush and overplaying the short passing game. Since our OL is getting overpowered there is virtually zero chance of having time for 20+ yard throws.

Love is getting killed in the media, and by any measure, he was not good last night.

MLF is getting killed, and he probably deserves the criticism he is receiving.

But do Packer fans remember way, way back to April of this year when MLF went on record with his desire to add a veteran pass catcher to make his existence and the existence of his first year QB perhaps a little easier heading into 2023?

"Well, I think some veteran leadership would be nice," LaFleur said.

https://www.nfl.com/news/packers-matt-lafleur-would-like-to-add-to-wide-receiver-room-some-veteran-leader

Wonder if there was any reason MLF seemed so adamant that the team add a veteran pass catcher to go with two second-year and a bunch of rookie WRs and two rookie TEs?

Sammy Watkins is still available. Been there, done that. Without a clear number 1 WR the unit will be shaky. There are certain points in a game where you have to have that go to guy. The Packers bottled up Adams but when it mattered he made two critical catches on what became the winning drive.

The only thing I remember from ARs first couple of years was he would take a sack instead of throwing the ball away.  That drove me crazy. I don't remember him struggling with accuracy. Instead, I remember these amazing throws he would make and I would shake my head thinking wow. Love has had a few of those but misses way more than he makes. Love also seems a little too mechanical. I am not sure you can fix accuracy issues. Especially on long balls. The throw to watson at the end was just like the throws earlier when Love would under throw a receiver that had a step on the DB. He has the arm but for some reason has trouble with that.

My concern is much less with Love and much more with MLF and Stenovich.

Doubs, Reed and Wicks IIRC combined for 3 catches last night.

8 first half carries for AJ in the opening half after Dillon did a good job on the opening drive, averaging 4 per carry. Then MLF gets away from this until the opening drive of the 2nd half.

There is little to no scheming of WR's open for easy pitch and catches.

This side of the football has no identity. I get Aaron Jones is a very good player but this offense should not become completely stifled when he's out. And that's precisely what's goin' on.

NYG are shopping Mecole Hardman.  Vet receiver with some speed.

They were stifled against the Bares when MiLF didn't use Jones too.

@SteveLuke posted:

https://www.nfl.com/news/packers-matt-lafleur-would-like-to-add-to-wide-receiver-room-some-veteran-leader

Wonder if there was any reason MLF seemed so adamant that the team add a veteran pass catcher to go with two second-year and a bunch of rookie WRs and two rookie TEs?

Because so many Packer fans said NO  to  a veteran WR.  They all wanted to see the young WRs develop together.   I even read that on Times Four.

Who is this mythical veteran wide receiver? They seemed to be doing fine until Watson started playing. For some reason it looked like Love was forcing throws to Watson last night.

@bdplant posted:

There’s no room in this forum for facts or reasonable thinking!  The Packers were embarrassed on national TV yet again and it’s getting really old (losing by four wouldn’t normally be embarrassing, but it was against the Raiders….and national TV got to see Preston Smith covering 17…..and Savage injuring himself while trying to avoid contact.)

One thing about that comparison: both teams were young but AR ended up having a really good group of ball catchers (Gerg, Driver, Jordy, Finley, Jones)….There’s a lot of potential with Love’s receivers, but they have a sh!t ton of work to do if they’re going to be anywhere near as good as AR’s receivers.

The other thing about the 2008 team is that it wasn't like they didn't know they had good WRs going into the year. Donald Driver had already made 3 Pro Bowls. Greg Jennings had 920 yards in 13 games with 12 TD catches the year before. Both were consummate route runners, especially Jennings. Jordy Nelson and James Jones were young and developing, but they didn't need to be #1 WRs at that point, the Packers already had two guys to fill those roles.

The offensive line was also Clifton, Colledge, Wells, Spitz, and Tauscher and Sitton was their 6th lineman as a rookie. Jenkins would be the only guy that might start for the 2008 OL.

Love has a lot less to work with than Rodgers and he is often running for his life on many drop backs, but the concerns are that he is often inaccurate in what should be simple throws. The screen pass to Dillon that was thrown at his feet last night. The same thing on a screen to Taylor. He doesn't seem to hit guys in stride often enough (although the touch throw to DeGuara last night was a beautiful throw).

I've gone back and forth thinking about Love the last two games. The concerns are some of the decision making and the inaccuracy. The thing that's hard to judge is would he look that inaccurate if he was throwing to a guy like Davante Adams? Adams is a superstar WR because he adjusts to throws in the air and maybe makes them look like more accurate throws than they really are. Jordy Nelson, Jennings, and Driver all had the same ability. Christian Watson looks like he can't adjust to anything. None of their current WRs look to have that ability except maybe Doubs.

@SteveLuke posted:

Wonder if there was any reason MLF seemed so adamant that the team add a veteran pass catcher to go with two second-year and a bunch of rookie WRs and two rookie TEs?

You're the guy that will bitch to high heaven about having guys like Sammy Watkins or Randall Cobb's veteran presence/lack of production on the roster.

And then turn around and question why the Packers don't have a veteran presence to go with the young WR corp.

You've got this shit down pat!

At this point, Love's successes and failures will rise or fall with the performance of the OL.
Until they can build and sustain some kind of protection, he's going to suffer David Carr syndrome.
He has no chance to improve when most plays are spent immediately avoiding the pass rush/pressure as opposed to watching the downfield developments.

IMHO, the plays called over the last few weeks certainly aren't doing him any favors and are in fact detrimental.
But, the bottom line is it still comes down to pass pro, or lack thereof.

@Timmy! posted:

At this point, Love's successes and failures will rise or fall with the performance of the OL.
Until they can build and sustain some kind of protection, he's going to suffer David Carr syndrome.

But, the bottom line is it still comes down to pass pro, or lack thereof.

That's not 100% accurate.

This is on MLF....get the ball out of Love's hands quickly to HELP the O-Line.

This is 100% on MLF.

@GBFanForLife posted:

Who is this mythical veteran wide receiver? They seemed to be doing fine until Watson started playing. For some reason it looked like Love was forcing throws to Watson last night.

Sort of like Rodgers always forcing throws to Adams? 

Overheard from an elderly woman wearing a Packers shirt on my flight from Vegas to Denver right now:

“I’m waiting for them to give up on Jordan Love.”

Said she liked Sean Clifford in preseason because he reminded her of Brett Favre.

This is gonna be a long season.

— Matt Schneidman (@mattschneidman) October 10, 2023

@PackerRick posted:

Sammy Watkins is still available. Been there, done that. Without a clear number 1 WR the unit will be shaky. There are certain points in a game where you have to have that go to guy. The Packers bottled up Adams but when it mattered he made two critical catches on what became the winning drive.

I feel the game was lost on the 1st and Goal at the 3 series, when we couldn't punch it in on 3 running plays and had to settle for a FG. I was hoping for a Love bootleg or something to Musgrave there, during that series to get a TD, instead of settling for 3. More rough patches ahead, folks. Be patient. GO PACK, GO!!!

"I sent Jordan Love a message last night and he's a great kid..

The important thing as a QB is to keep your confidence and we all go through growing pains..

He's gonna be around a while and that Packers team is gonna get it fixed" @AaronRodgers12 #PMSLive pic.twitter.com/izKdiJu0vj

— Pat McAfee (@PatMcAfeeShow) October 10, 2023

@ammo posted:

Sort of like Rodgers always forcing throws to Adams?

Here's Love's picks against the Raiders.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9QO2Q2ojDw

The first interception (not to Watson) was one of the worst throws I've ever seen a Packers WB make in the almost 50 years I've been watching games. There were two Raiders defenders between Love and the intended WR. Both guys could have picked off that pass and Love had plenty of time (mainly because they triple teamed Crosby).

The interception at the end was a really poorly thrown ball, but Watson has to do more to go after that.

The 2nd interception Love had Monday night was a ball that you hear about how the QB has to trust his WR is going to win the 1 x 1 matchup to throw. Love has to make the decision to throw as Watson is coming out of his break and its Watson's job to win that matchup. Watson is 6'4" and 210 pounds, but he plays very soft. You can't let a DB drive through you on that type of play. But Watson is still pretty raw. It's a bit of a concern after two NFL training camps.

Davante Adams probably catches the 2nd interception and at least knocks down the final interception.

All I meant was Rodgers forced the ball to Adams  when others were open but not thrown to because Rodgers didn't trust them.  That's it.  Don't put more into this than it is.

I would like to see Jordan Love play better, of course. But unless he's horrible week after week, I'll reserve long term opinion until the end of the season. He's playing for the first time with a very inexperienced receiving corp. Hopefully there's improvement as the season moves on.

@mrtundra posted:

I feel the game was lost on the 1st and Goal at the 3 series, when we couldn't punch it in on 3 running plays and had to settle for a FG. I was hoping for a Love bootleg or something to Musgrave there, during that series to get a TD, instead of settling for 3. More rough patches ahead, folks. Be patient. GO PACK, GO!!!

The game was lost when Love was woefully late and then under through a wide open Watson for the game ending pick.

Watson had 3 steps but had to slow down to a jog and then Love still under through the ball.

@Boris posted:

That's not 100% accurate.

This is on MLF....get the ball out of Love's hands quickly to HELP the O-Line.

This is 100% on MLF.

Yes! I remarked in the game thread (or another one?) I couldn't understand why every pass play had to be a 7 step drop when Crosby was wrecking the game.
It should have been 3 steps and fire. Whatever happened to slants or other quick-action, short passes?
It may even allow the offense to go quick tempo or have other good results.

@Boris posted:

Overheard from an elderly woman wearing a Packers shirt on my flight from Vegas to Denver right now:

“I’m waiting for them to give up on Jordan Love.”

Said she liked Sean Clifford in preseason because he reminded her of Brett Favre.

This is gonna be a long season.

— Matt Schneidman (@mattschneidman) October 10, 2023

She might not have enough time to wait!

@Boris posted:

Overheard from an elderly woman wearing a Packers shirt on my flight from Vegas to Denver right now:

“I’m waiting for them to give up on Jordan Love.”

Said she liked Sean Clifford in preseason because he reminded her of Brett Favre.

This is gonna be a long season.

— Matt Schneidman (@mattschneidman) October 10, 2023

That's cold as ice. Goldie has a name. 😉😊🙂😋

@mrtundra posted:

I feel the game was lost on the 1st and Goal at the 3 series, when we couldn't punch it in on 3 running plays and had to settle for a FG. I was hoping for a Love bootleg or something to Musgrave there, during that series to get a TD, instead of settling for 3. More rough patches ahead, folks. Be patient. GO PACK, GO!!!

Plenty of momentum, that the Packers had just gained on the 77 yard play, was lost on that sequence of running plays.

@MichiganPacker posted:

Here's Love's picks against the Raiders.

Davante Adams probably catches the 2nd interception and at least knocks down the final interception.

I agree, Watson had a terrible game and I have my doubts not only if he a #1 WR but even a starter. He looks like the 3rd WR you bring on passing downs. Doesn't look like a route runner at all, just a speed guy. On the 2nd INT he didn't create any separation so nobody is even honoring his speed.

The first INT was real bad but it was obviously a case where Love didn't see the defender....or the defender that was behind him that would have also picked it off. The Raiders seemed to know our plays that were being ran as well as our players did.

@BrainDed posted:

The game was lost when Love was woefully late and then under through a wide open Watson for the game ending pick.

Watson had 3 steps but had to slow down to a jog and then Love still under through the ball.

If the Packers had scored a TD after the horsecollar play that last pass never even happens as they are tied playing for a FG.

Same reasons I've said Doubs looks like a better receiver at this point than Watson.  He's just more polished at playing the position.  Watson's absences have only stunted his development.

@PackLandVA posted:

You're the guy that will bitch to high heaven about having guys like Sammy Watkins or Randall Cobb's veteran presence/lack of production on the roster.

And then turn around and question why the Packers don't have a veteran presence to go with the young WR corp.

You've got this shit down pat!

And you're the guy who thinks that Gutey signing Sammy Watkins was a shrewd move while insisting there just were never any worthy WRs available between 2018-2021 for poor Gutey to draft while he was working his magic with the roster.

Adding a competent veteran (not someone like the corpse of Sammy Watkins) to a receiving group made up of green 2nd year WRs and a bunch of rookies at WR & TE should not be beyond the ability of a competent GM -- particularly when his Head Coach is publicly pleading for one.

But keep making excuses for your boy.

@SteveLuke posted:

Adding a competent veteran (not someone like the corpse of Sammy Watkins) to a receiving group made up of green 2nd year WRs and a bunch of rookies at WR & TE should not be beyond the ability of a competent GM -- particularly when his Head Coach is publicly pleading for one.

Really what this is telling us that this truly is a rebuilding year, a season where players gain experience and mesh together as a unit. Last year Rodgers struggled with 3 rookie WRs. How can we expect our offense to be anything but more dysfunctional with those same 3 WRs plus 3 more rookie WRs and 3 more rookie TEs?

The Packers aren't just turning the page on the Rodgers' era, they're shit canning the whole book. Rodgers took a 12-4 Packer team that played in the NFC Championship game and went 6-10. Jennings, Driver, Jones, Nelson, and a 1200 yard rusher in Ryan Grant were the skill players on that offense.

@SteveLuke posted:

And you're the guy who thinks that Gutey signing Sammy Watkins was a shrewd move while insisting there just were never any worthy WRs available between 2018-2021 for poor Gutey to draft while he was working his magic with the roster.

But keep making excuses for your boy.

Good point! Except I've never made much comment on the Watkins signing other than he's oft-injured. Nor have I ever suggested there weren't any "worthy WRs available".

However, your schtick is about as old and recycled as ever. And anyone who posts with a modicum of regularity knows it.

Keep flailing. And bitching.

Watson does play soft right now. I'm wondering if he's still not fully healed or if it's because in college he was just wide open and didn't have to fight for receptions. I'm also puzzled at the lack of throws to Doubs on Monday. Yes, he had that horrible drop with less than two minutes to go, but he is a more polished route runner, has better hands, and is more willing to fight for a ball. Make him the No. 1 for now until someone else takes the job away. Why they force-fed Watson is a question to ask MLF.

@Fandame posted:

Watson does play soft right now. I'm wondering if he's still not fully healed or if it's because in college he was just wide open and didn't have to fight for receptions. I'm also puzzled at the lack of throws to Doubs on Monday. Yes, he had that horrible drop with less than two minutes to go, but he is a more polished route runner, has better hands, and is more willing to fight for a ball. Make him the No. 1 for now until someone else takes the job away. Why they force-fed Watson is a question to ask MLF.

Watson is playing like he's made of glass which he probably is.