Love Notes - 2023 Game 3 and up!

@mrtundra posted:

I feel the game was lost on the 1st and Goal at the 3 series, when we couldn't punch it in on 3 running plays and had to settle for a FG. I was hoping for a Love bootleg or something to Musgrave there, during that series to get a TD, instead of settling for 3. More rough patches ahead, folks. Be patient. GO PACK, GO!!!

My brother constantly preaches that they need to run the ball. On that very drive, after each failed run, he was texting me that they need to run it again...2nd down, 3rd down. There's no doubt that the previous drive that was all Dillon gave the Packers clear momentum. It was simple and straight forward line up and pound the rock. It was probably their most impressive drive of the season in terms of establishing an advantage against a defense.

So they get to 1st and goal from the 3, and they run two pretty obvious plays into a highly compressed spot of the field. I'm sure had it worked, it would have changed the outcome of the game. But it's also a good example of needing to pick your spots. The Andy Reids and Shanarats have a great knack for mixing play calls to keep a defense off kilter. MLF sucks at it, and worse yet is he sucks at it down in the red zone. In nearly every game this season, the offense has essentially telegraphed and given away their intentions in big short yardage plays. You have a mobile qb. You have a highly suspect front. You have weapons that have little experience but are athletic. The last thing to be doing should be trying what worked from the 37 inward in such a heavily congested area with a guy that has cement cleats and many times flinches at first contact. Not to mention this offensive line certainly can't be trusted when facing a 9 or 10 man front on the goal line.

I also didn't like the rollout to the left on third & goal. I realize that they were probably trying to run it away from Crosby, but much more difficult run / throw option going left than going right.

Double team or triple team Crosby?!?! To allow Love to roll right???? What is this sorcery?!?!

Pssshaw.....how dare you question the greatness of M.L.F!!!

I always heard the best way to neutralize a great defensive player was to run right at him.  As The Boss said, double team him and put him on his ass.

Thanks for sharing that Tit. Easily explains the weird slow first halves and strong second halves. GB needs to be better prepared going into the game for atypical coverage looks, Love needs to mature with his decision making when the defense is giving him a different look, and they need playmakers back and healthy. All that seems really on point. Would love to see how Love performed with the 2008 offense with vet receivers, healthy 1,000 yrd rusher, and 3-4 solid veteran OL. Makes a huge difference.

Podcast: Mike Holmgren had some interesting thoughts on young QBs in his radio spot this week

Skip to 12:15 to get right to it. Whole interview is good though. Going to find out about Love and his ability to respond to pressure if nothing else this season.

Love to Watson looks a lot like Rodgers to MVS. MVS always seemed to have stupid drops and Rodgers always under or overthrew him. They never seemed to get their timing down for whatever reason.

That said the worst part of Loves play is his accuracy. Which is probably the worst thing you can say about a QB. But if he can somehow get that down pat you can see how he would be really good. Because most of the rest of his game is pretty decent.

Good analysis, love JT's show. Can't help but feel like the biggest issue with the offense is preparation. So many mental mistakes, such a lack of understanding of what the game is, and so little confidence in young talent. I'm not a "fire all the coaches" kind of guy, but take away all pro's like Rodgers, Adams, and A. Jones, it's hard to think that our QB, WR, and RB coach are effective at their jobs. No they've not been given ferraris, but the mistakes aren't with talent...it's all mental. It's all basics. Butkus and Steno are the only ones I really see excelling with what they're given, they're getting the most out of what they've been given, but should really be evaluated.

It may sound too obvious, and so be it, but really Love's success starts and ends with the OL.

Losing what they thought was going to be an All-pro LT for the season, then seeing a multi-Pro bowl LG go down for weeks, having Myers who is OK at best, and a still raw RT in Tom is where much of these issues are with Love's timing and feeling comfortable in the pocket.

Particularly in the interior OL has been brutal in the past 3 weeks. Fix the OL and get Jones back and Love will look much better.

Gute, and before him Ted, invested a lot of day 1 capital on the defense in draft after draft the past few years. I fully believe Gute feels this season and the next is going to be spent rebuilding this roster and revamping this team.

He has to invest day 1 and 2 picks on the offense moving forward. That probably means spending high picks at T, Center, and RB. Surround Jordan with good players and he will look that much better. It's not that hard to figure out.

Gotta disagree. Clements is an excellent QB coach, who AR credits with a major factor in his development. Love's fundamentals look good, it is more accuracy , protection, and not having people open. O-line was better when Steno was coach, that maybe his calling rather than OC. Position coaches should really be the guys that develop talent. Tom came in pretty much NFL ready as far as technique. We really haven't seen Myers or Runyan get any better. The jury is still out on whether  Doubs, Watson, Touree will show improvement. IDK how much coaching can improve Dillon ... he just doesn't seem to have the vision to see daylight.

Doubs was doing pretty good until Watson started playing.

Like I said, late and underthrown is what cost the game.

https://ftw.usatoday.com/lists...9gO8QLpX0_fV2wdQtznU

It's one play, that's like saying the guy that made the last out in a baseball game lost the game. It doesn't work like that. Not getting a TD with a 3rd and goal was a much bigger factor. A 17-10 lead would have been huge. So huge the last drive would be for a FG.

Did you forget the 2 drops on the previous 2 pass plays prior to that INT? 1st and 10 from the 15 is a lot better than 3rd and 10 from the 35.

BTW, Robert Zeglinski, the guy that wrote that article is my UBER driver. Point being the guy is no more of an authority than you or me.

How is Robert’s driving skill?

I just watched that video of that last INT several times and Watson was basically jogging the entire route and Love actually led him for the speed he was "running". I think he duped Love into thinking he was so wide open that that's where the ball had to go. Had Love thrown it to the corner it probably would have been an overthrow because Watson wasn't running hard. I'm not making excuses but Watson really leaves a lot to be desired as a WR. He did nothing on that play whether it be the speed he ran the route or being competitive making a play on the ball. I have serious concerns about him being a very reliable WR.

@Goalline posted:

How is Robert’s driving skill?

About the same as he writes.

@PackerRick posted:

I just watched that video of that last INT several times and Watson was basically jogging the entire route and Love actually led him for the speed he was "running". I think he duped Love into thinking he was so wide open that that's where the ball had to go. Had Love thrown it to the corner it probably would have been an overthrow because Watson wasn't running hard. I'm not making excuses but Watson really leaves a lot to be desired as a WR. He did nothing on that play whether it be the speed he ran the route or being competitive making a play on the ball. I have serious concerns about him being a very reliable WR.

Well, he definitely slowed down because he was running out of real estate. Other than the pathetic attempt to defend the pass, I am not sure that INT wasn’t just the type of thing that happens when two players are trying learn each other’s traits.

Love has to learn to throw and/or anticipate that guy being open, especially if that's his first read. Watson has the speed that would let Love throw him open. I got a little sick watching the replay when I saw how open Watson was but the ball was so late -- and the pathetic attempt to play DB on his part. And then I realized that they are young and Love is going to miss some, and Watson doesn't know is learning how to play receiver.

If Watson had ran the route Love could have thrown it to the corner of the endzone instead of lobbing. As it was he led Watson according to the speed he's running. I've watched it enough times and that's another garbage route by Watson and he's just as much to blame as Love who threw to the spot. Watson had the DB beaten badly but allowed him to get back into the play by not running and creating more separation.

Watson and Love both played like **** in the game.

Rich Gannon won NFL MVP in 2002. Here’s what he’s seen in studying Packers quarterback Jordan Love all season.

Good Huber piece with Gannon's view of the QB. Really surprised at the number of Packer fans apparently ready to give up on the young QB.

@michiganjoe posted:

Rich Gannon won NFL MVP in 2002. Here’s what he’s seen in studying Packers quarterback Jordan Love all season.

Good Huber piece with Gannon's view of the QB. Really surprised at the number of Packer fans apparently ready to give up on the young QB.

It’s a very rare occasion where I wish the Packers had an owner. This is a precise one where I am glad they don’t. Patience is key here and everyone just needs to a take a breath. Stabilize that OL , get these young WRs experience and get Jones back. Love will look much better.

@michiganjoe posted:

Watson and Love both played like **** in the game.

I see more upside in Love than Watson. Love looked better when watson wasn't playing and Wicks looks like a better option. A WR needs more than straight line speed. I can think of 3 targets where Watson didn't perform like an NFL WR and I'm not counting the play where he couldn't outrun a journeyman CB.

@Goalline posted:

Well, he definitely slowed down because he was running out of real estate. Other than the pathetic attempt to defend the pass, I am not sure that INT wasn’t just the type of thing that happens when two players are trying learn each other’s traits.

He's jogging at the 20 yard line with 4 yards of separation. The DB makes that up by the time Watson gets to the 5 yard line.

This is what concerns me as much as anything in the Raider game. It's as if the Raiders knew what was coming and it was said Crosby figured out the silent count. Is this offense that predictable? "The play didn’t have a chance, though. Spillane read it like a book for an easy interception."

Herman had Wahle on his podcast today ....said our o-lineman are "tipping" the direction of their run plays by their body position and head (looking at where they have to block).

That's coaching.....plain and simple.

Something coaches should be picking up on during self-scout. Especially during the bye week!

Think we'll see anything different?

LaFleur needs to get a clue.

For as many eyes that see the game tape, and I suspect the position coaches and assistants see it more than once, somebody should pick up on that kind of stuff.

I'd have slightly more faith in Butkis to make changes than I would a certain DC, but he's on thin ice. The play from the OL has been noticeably different on his watch. And not in a good way.

@PackerRick posted:

I see more upside in Love than Watson. Love looked better when watson wasn't playing and Wicks looks like a better option. A WR needs more than straight line speed. I can think of 3 targets where Watson didn't perform like an NFL WR and I'm not counting the play where he couldn't outrun a journeyman CB.

Not just outrun Marcus Peters. He didn't even compete to break up the final interception against a 5'9" mid-round pick when Watson is 6'4".

@PackerRick posted:

This is what concerns me as much as anything in the Raider game. It's as if the Raiders knew what was coming and it was said Crosby figured out the silent count. Is this offense that predictable? "The play didn’t have a chance, though. Spillane read it like a book for an easy interception."

When you’re snapping the ball at the half second point yes it’s easy to figure out the snap count

@MichiganPacker posted:

Not just outrun Marcus Peters. He didn't even compete to break up the final interception against a 5'9" mid-round pick when Watson is 6'4".

That last play was a pitiful effort on Watson's part. The route was lazy and if he high points the ball it's not an INT, maybe even a TD. He doesn't seem to have the natural instincts of a WR and the jury might be out for awhile on him. He looks like the type that is part of the 4 WR package, not a #1 WR.

@Boris posted:

That's coaching.....plain and simple.

Something coaches should be picking up on during self-scout. Especially during the bye week!

Think we'll see anything different?

Freshman HS team coaching.

MLF is going to be taking a lot of heat if the offense is asleep against Denver after a bye week. And their defense did not look that bad against KC.

First-year starter at QB with absolutely no ability to run the football whatsoever is a recipe for defeat.

I'd like to see Love run the ball more. Not a burner, but he has adequate speed. Good size , and he seems aware enough to go down before taking most hits. The big advantage with the QB running is that you get one extra blocker. I realize that the RG3 injury fueled the opinion that running in only going to end up in an injury. Found this article that somewhat debunks that theory.

https://www.fantasypoints.com/...s-and-injury-rates#/

Lots of excuses being made for a guy that historically struggles with decision making and accuracy.  

Love's draft profile weaknesses:

• Consistency and production took massive step backward in 2019
• Looping windup part of slower operation time
• Too much staring and telegraphing
• Six games with multiple interceptions, including three pick-sixes
• Below-average decision-making against zone looks
• Allowed coverage to swarm due to lack of anticipation
• Unusually spotty ball placement forced targets to work for catches
• Completed just 31.8 percent of his deep throws
• Doesn't slide to safer launch points enough
• Will void viable pockets at times
• Needs to use eyes to hold safeties longer
• Issues bringing in off-target snaps, leading to fumbles

We've seen a bit of this already.

@PackerRick posted:

If Watson had ran the route Love could have thrown it to the corner of the endzone instead of lobbing. As it was he led Watson according to the speed he's running. I've watched it enough times and that's another garbage route by Watson and he's just as much to blame as Love who threw to the spot. Watson had the DB beaten badly but allowed him to get back into the play by not running and creating more separation.

Is it possible that Love didn't get the ball out on time which caused Watson to slow down?  Seems to me that was an easy 6 if that ball is thrown earlier.  I would expect a quality NFL QB to hit Watson in stride.