I knew this year would have some struggles with Love and the youth of the O, but what I am disappointed in is not seeing the progress I had hoped to see out of Love. I watched the Denver game thinking Love had a chance to win it. So, what does he do? Repeats the very same mistake he made against the Raiders. I'm not seeing the growth that I want to see. That's probably a mix of poor coaching and Love's limitations. It's disappointing.
@Fandame posted:I knew this year would have some struggles with Love and the youth of the O, but what I am disappointed in is not seeing the progress I had hoped to see out of Love. I watched the Denver game thinking Love had a chance to win it. So, what does he do? Repeats the very same mistake he made against the Raiders. I'm not seeing the growth that I want to see. That's probably a mix of poor coaching and Love's limitations. It's disappointing.
Those reviewing all 22 (and also posting about it) are rightfully pointing out much of it is not Love. It's WR's running the same routes, it's them running an entirely wrong route and Love is throwing to where the WR should be and not where he ends up. It's an OL that can't block for shit either.
Yes, Love has missed his share of throws. But the offense is a hot mess and most of it is the youngest team in the NFL with no experience and a coaching staff who can't figure out how to coach them up.
@MI PACK posted:Good article on the Ringer today about the situation the Packers are in. Not much that hasn't been said elsewhere (young team, injuries, etc.) but I think the author states it well. "The only way out is through."
I'm not in tune with the time factor they talk about as being critical. Love is signed through next season and Rodgers didn't get his first long term deal until halfway through his FA season.
@PackerRick posted:I'm not in tune with the time factor they talk about as being critical. Love is signed through next season and Rodgers didn't get his first long term deal until halfway through his FA season.
Correct. The Packers have time if they want to stick with Love another year. It's not dire and he's not costing much at all right now. Things will look much clearer after week 17. Whether they stay with Love or blow the whole thing up.
They're not going to blow the whole thing up unless that thing starts with Gute. Otherwise, they will stick with Love through next year.
@DH13 posted:They're not going to blow the whole thing up unless that thing starts with Gute. Otherwise, they will stick with Love through next year.
It doesn't make sense to blow the whole thing up until the person that replaces Murphy comes on board. I don't think anyone on this board would want Murphy choosing the next GM/head coach of the Packers so he can continue to have an influence even after he's gone.
@Blair Kiel posted:The best stats are the cherry picked stats. My alma mater, UW-Milwaukee is undefeated in football since 1974. Fuck Alabama. 😀
They quit playing football then?
@packerboi posted:Those reviewing all 22 (and also posting about it) are rightfully pointing out much of it is not Love. It's WR's running the same routes, it's them running an entirely wrong route and Love is throwing to where the WR should be and not where he ends up.
I respectfully disagree. On short passes, Love is consistently behind his receivers. On the long balls, he's late to pull the trigger and the receivers have to slow up to stay where they should be when Love should have thrown the ball. There have been several long balls where the receivers have their man beat and if the ball arrives earlier in that same spot it's 6.
@AZPackerBacker posted:I respectfully disagree. On short passes, Love is consistently behind his receivers. On the long balls, he's late to pull the trigger and the receivers have to slow up to stay where they should be when Love should have thrown the ball. There have been several long balls where the receivers have their man beat and if the ball arrives earlier in that same spot it's 6.
Love has missed throws. No question. But it's plenty of this coupled with bad blocking and no veteran WR's or TE's for Love to have as a safety blanket (e.g. Donald Driver in 05 along with 3rd year WR Greg Jennings).
Matt LaFleur, top of the screen left middle with his best Shanahan outburst after two receivers end up running the same route in the same space. pic.twitter.com/2faAODb6j1
— Rich (@richjmadrid) October 25, 2023
@AZPackerBacker posted:I respectfully disagree. On short passes, Love is consistently behind his receivers. On the long balls, he's late to pull the trigger and the receivers have to slow up to stay where they should be when Love should have thrown the ball. There have been several long balls where the receivers have their man beat and if the ball arrives earlier in that same spot it's 6.
That’s what makes it tough. Is he throwing late by delayed recognition, or is he throwing late because he’s waiting a bit to see if the receiver is running the right damned route?
If they end up with a top pick, they still should pull the trigger on Williams or Maye. If they end up with two good ones somehow, there’s a trade haul for one of them.
@packerboi posted:Love has missed throws. No question. But it's plenty of this coupled with bad blocking and no veteran WR's or TE's for Love to have as a safety blanket (e.g. Donald Driver in 05 along with 3rd year WR Greg Jennings).
Matt LaFleur, top of the screen left middle with his best Shanahan outburst after two receivers end up running the same route in the same space. pic.twitter.com/2faAODb6j1
— Rich (@richjmadrid) October 25, 2023
Well, it is not like the GM could have possibly foreseen what has come to fruition by throwing a first-year starting QB out there with a bunch of green as can be receivers.
On a completely unrelated note, anyone remember way, way back like 6 months ago when ...
"Packers' Matt LaFleur [said he] would like to add to wide receiver room: 'Some veteran leadership would be nice'"
@packerboi posted:Those reviewing all 22 (and also posting about it) are rightfully pointing out much of it is not Love. It's WR's running the same routes, it's them running an entirely wrong route and Love is throwing to where the WR should be and not where he ends up. It's an OL that can't block for shit either.
Yes, Love has missed his share of throws. But the offense is a hot mess and most of it is the youngest team in the NFL with no experience and a coaching staff who can't figure out how to coach them up.
I watch all 22, used to post breakdowns here, I see all the above but I also see Love being consistently late. He takes too much time to commit and pull the trigger.
He is consistently late and behind. Maybe that improves with more game action or maybe he’s just not capable of processing what he sees fast enough.
Love struggling with accuracy and lack of experience at receiver causing issues are not mutually exclusive.
@BrainDed posted:I watch all 22, used to post breakdowns here, I see all the above but I also see Love being consistently late. He takes too much time to commit and pull the trigger.
He is consistently late and behind. Maybe that improves with more game action or maybe he’s just not capable of processing what he sees fast enough.
I've noticed that as well. Love is Very late hitting the window. Hopefully he improves in the future.
For instance Brock Purdy was hitting those windows perfectly and on time.....and Deebo was right there to haul it in.....once Deebo got hurt...all of a sudden the same play wasn't connecting anymore with Deebos replacement.
A by-product of being late is very little YAC for our receivers.
How much of him being late is not trusting that the WR is going to be where he is supposed to be, even when he is? I don't recall him having this problem in WK01 and I'm going to guess the WR's were running routes correctly on that day.
Hard to throw with anticipation if you're not sure your guy is going to be there. He's probably waiting an extra tick before pulling the trigger.
I guess he could do what Favre used to do and just plunk the receiver in the back of the helmet.
The by product of my girlfriend being late led to our marriage.
He doesn't do well with the shotgun. He needs to be under center.
Well, then luckily women's lib happened and cowgirl was invented.
The implications by the in-laws were that, yes, the shotgun was loaded.
@lovepack posted:The implications by the in-laws were that, yes, the shotgun was loaded.
Lead allergy?
@SteveLuke posted:Well, it is not like the GM could have possibly foreseen what has come to fruition by throwing a first-year starting QB out there with a bunch of green as can be receivers.
On a completely unrelated note, anyone remember way, way back like 6 months ago when ...
"Packers' Matt LaFleur [said he] would like to add to wide receiver room: 'Some veteran leadership would be nice'"
Christian Watson is a second year player. He's been through two training camps and was supposed to be a breakout player this year. Instead, he's probably the worst one out there in terms of not knowing what routes to run and dogging it on some routes. He's their most physically gifted WR and he appears to not be setting a good example.
What is somewhat concerning about Watson is that he is very bright (he had a higher wonderlic score than Rodgers), but is making mental mistakes. His knowledge of the offense was being lauded in preseason, but now doesn't know routes? What is going on?
We don't know what his responsibilities are at the position yet. Is he reading defenses and adjusting his routes based on that? If so, he could be reading the D wrong which may be more of an experience problem than an intellect problem.
Favre was 'football smart'. Full stop.
@Blair Kiel posted:The best stats are the cherry picked stats. My alma mater, UW-Milwaukee is undefeated in football since 1974. Fuck Alabama. 😀
And my Alma mater, St. Bonaventure, is undefeated in football since 1952 when Ted Marchibroda led the Brown Indians.
@MichiganPacker posted:Christian Watson is a second year player. He's been through two training camps and was supposed to be a breakout player this year. Instead, he's probably the worst one out there in terms of not knowing what routes to run and dogging it on some routes. He's their most physically gifted WR and he appears to not be setting a good example.
2nd year player but only 14 starts. He doesn’t even have a full season of play under his belt yet cuz of all his injuries.
I think people forget a lot of WRs take 3 years to really shine. Not every receiver is Justin Jefferson.
Shine? Just running the correct route occasionally would be a good start.
No matter how it was spun before the season, this is a rebuilding year. Not only when it comes to players, but also the salary cap. My take is that Gutey knew this team didn't have the experience to compete right now. As it's been said many times, they are looking to 2024 and more likely 2025 as the target.
Of course it was the dream that Love would play awesome and the skill position players would wow us. As of right now, that hasn't been the case. I think they overvalued what they had on the offensive line, but losing Bahk has hurt. Having Jones hurt and Dillon regressing makes matters worse.
I agree that MLF has not done a very good job on the offense, but it's almost like there are no options. You can't count on the run game, receivers are not where they are supposed to be, and Love has not corrected his accuracy problems. Is it coaching, probably to some extent, but I can't imagine that they haven't worked on this in practice.
The biggest mistake, in my opinion, was keeping Barry. Just like the offense is in a "figure it out" year, the defense should have been the same. It needs to be determined if the defensive issues are mainly from scheme, talent, or both. If they had a new coordinator you might get a better idea. Granted, they've held some opponents to scores that should allow you to win, but they really have not dominated a game.
It's possible that Love never gets better, Watson is just a guy, and the draft capital they used on defense was a waste, and MLF sucks without AR. But it's also possible that with more experience, health at key positions, a new DC, and a healthy cap, that this team can return to relevance.
The long term future of this franchise will be determined by the Board of Directors when MM retires. Get that hire wrong and we could be in for a long time of suck. Nail it, and who knows.
Someone once said, "It's all a beautiful mystery."
@DocBenni posted:The biggest mistake, in my opinion, was keeping Barry. Just like the offense is in a "figure it out" year, the defense should have been the same. It needs to be determined if the defensive issues are mainly from scheme, talent, or both. If they had a new coordinator you might get a better idea. G
Exactly.. Keeping Barry just extends the rebuild time a year. This should have been the first year of learning the new scheme. There is no scenario where Barry is still here and the Packers are winning the Owl. So rip the band aid off now you puss, Pepe.
@MichiganPacker posted:Christian Watson is a second year player. He's been through two training camps and was supposed to be a breakout player this year. Instead, he's probably the worst one out there in terms of not knowing what routes to run and dogging it on some routes. He's their most physically gifted WR and he appears to not be setting a good example.
Well, one training camp. He was injured the whole of his first camp. Hmmm, that sounds familiar. Watson injured.
@FLPACKER posted:What is somewhat concerning about Watson is that he is very bright (he had a higher wonderlic score than Rodgers), but is making mental mistakes. His knowledge of the offense was being lauded in preseason, but now doesn't know routes? What is going on?
He’s clearly book smart, but football intelligence is something completely different. The ability to see something on the fly you’ve never seen in the playbook and adjust accordingly. Watson seems to lack that. Football instincts.
So let me get this straight:
-many/most think the O-Line has been piss poor run blocking and possibly worse pass blocking;
-many/most think the young, inexperienced receiving corp has too many drops, and is poor at working through contested passes/catches;
-many/most think AJ is not the answer at RB in short-yardage situations, or really any time the ball is handed to him by the QB;
-Aaron Jones missed 4 games, and when he came back, the playcalling doesn't seem to involve him more than about a dozen or so plays;
-Many/most think that LaFleur and Stenavich call a shitty game, especially in the first half of games.
With that said, Jordan Love is the problem? After 7 starts in his career as QB1? And Sean Clifford should get a shot? Really? Comical that so many on this board laugh at the "whiner" Viking and Bears fans year after year.
I thought I was the only left not giving up on Love 🤷♂️
I don't see anybody on this forum saying Love is THE problem.
If you put Love down in Miami throwing to Hill and Waddle no doubt he’d look better. That said, I haven’t seen anything that screams out “This guy can lead us to a Super Bowl Championship”.
I do like the fact that he’s even keeled and poised. Those traits plus a decent arm will keep him in the league for awhile. But he is just so inconsistent from down to down, I just think he’s more of a guy that is backup level and spot starter as opposed to long term starter. He still shows a lot of rawness for a guy in his 4th year.
It’s fair to say Love has less help around him than probably 80% of the league or more. That said, at some point you have to make the best of what you’re working with and I don’t feel he’s done that. His instincts as a QB just look very ordinary and that may limit what he can become in another couple years when he reaches his prime NFL years.
Love hasn't exactly played lights out, but I think he can still be an above average QB in the right situation.
Two problems:
1. This is not the right situation.
2. The biggest advantage of having a young QB is being able to build a strong team around them while they are still on their rookie contract. The Packers aren't likely to be contenders next year, and if Love improves and plays well, the Packers will be in the no-man's land of having to pay a non-elite QB big money in 2025. It's the same purgatory that teams like the Titans (Tanneyhill), Vikings (Cousins), etc. end up in.
@DH13 posted:I don't see anybody on this forum saying Love is THE problem.
Maybe not in this thread but certainly in this forum. I am not one of them.
Love was never expected to carry the team. The talent around him was supposed to develop and he could be a game manager with the ability to make a big play here and there. But the team is behind the sticks constantly and he's not the one that puts them there. He's avoided sacks, made nice runs when he had to, but his teammates have got to pull their weight. After 7 games Dillon is the leading rusher, about 100 yards more than Love. That should tell us everything we need to know about how much help Love is getting.