I think Love has been so much under pressure throwing off balance that he's fallen into that tendency. Very seldom has he been able to stand in the pocket and step into a throw. I think he has zero confidence in his protection and rightly so.
No better example of this than the final INT in the Raider game. Watson had plenty of time to get in position to make a play on that throw.
— Average tracking deep throws. Inconsistent high pointing throws and will fall away and make himself a small target.
@MichiganPacker posted:He's basically a bigger, faster version of Jeff Janis - with the exception that Janis was very productive at a small school whereas Watson had mediocre college production at a similar type of small school.
And Janis could win a jump ball. It's all he could do but at least he could do that.
@PackerRick posted:Here's some startling numbers and observations from Andy Herman, especially about the last 25 first half drives. https://247sports.com/nfl/gree...-vikings--219149111/
I've been so disgusted with Packers twitter this season. It just feels like it's gone from people, and by that I mean people who run Packer pods/blogs/popular accounts, who had fun breaking down football (like Herman) to people who want to constantly whine and complain about the Packers. Some had an interesting perspective, but genuinely the most level headed person in Packers twitter right now is Aaron Nagler...
The majority of people on twitter have no recollection of what Packers football was pre-Favre. This has something to do with it.
All of these are really good, NFL throws including the INT. I mean he dropped that EXACTLY where it needed to be between two defenders into Reed's numbers.
Jordan Love is NOT the issue with the #Packers, his weapons are pic.twitter.com/WwTPdaP6ht
— MLFootball (@_MLFootball) October 30, 2023
@Grave Digger posted:All of these are really good, NFL throws including the INT. I mean he dropped that EXACTLY where it needed to be between two defenders into Reed's numbers.
Jordan Love is NOT the issue with the #Packers, his weapons are pic.twitter.com/WwTPdaP6ht
— MLFootball (@_MLFootball) October 30, 2023
yep. there’s one bad throw in there. the rest are pretty good. watson stinks.
In fairness to Love, the OL has been a mess and Aaron Jones hasn’t been healthy. The WRs are young and inconsistent.
Those reasons alone would be why you should be patient.
I think with all the disparate opinions on Love, there's only one answer.
Nobody knows for sure, time will tell.
As one who has called to see Clifford in a game these are the reasons.
1. Sure, Love was drafted in the 1st round. But if he had played his Senior season would he have been a 1st rounder? No one knows, but right now it looks like not. We are not the Bears. Look how they kept trotting out 1st rounders Turbursky and now Fields.
2. Yes it is only 7 regular season games, but he has had lots of pre season games and never looked like "the guy" then either. Plenty of excuses, back up OL, WR, RB, TE. But his fundamentals were just as bad then as now.
3. Clifford is only a 5th round pick, just brought in as a back up. Well Tom Brady was a 6th round pick. You never know what you have until a guy plays for real. All I know is I saw a much more exciting offense when Clifford was in the games in pre-season.
4. Love is losing confidence in his offense. Maybe the rest of the offense is losing confidence in Love and a change may help. They all talk the talk about how much they like Love but don't walk the walk when it comes to making critical plays.
5. Clifford completed 71.9% of his passes in pre-season. He was never sacked and had a QBR of 81.8. And that was with a lot of guys who are no longer in the NFL or are sitting on the Packers practice squad.
I'm not saying Love should never start the next game. But if he still can't score a TD in the 1st half of the next game and 1st drive of the 3rd quarter, it may be time to make a change. If Clifford is no better then what does Love have to worry about?
@ammo posted:5. Clifford completed 71.9% of his passes in pre-season. He was never sacked and had a QBR of 81.8. And that was with a lot of guys who are no longer in the NFL or are sitting on the Packers practice squad.
And that was against a lot of guys who are no longer in the NFL or sitting on other team's practice squads.
I don't see anything to gain playing Clifford. If you bench Love the way guys are screwing up around him they'll lose him. He'll never be worth a shit with a $20 ml contract next season.
I saw an article on Love. If there were no drops he would have been 30-41 yesterday and an easy 300 yards. It seemed like he threw a lot of bad passes but looking at those numbers who played better? Every time I look at the INT it just shows how deceptive stats can be.
If we are seriously having discussions about playing Clifford over Love we are more fucked than any of us think.
I know he has good size but can a dog even play QB?
With Love, it’s all confidence. He is sooo tentative and throwing the ball late. It really comes down to timing with WR.
@Packy posted:With Love, it’s all confidence. He is sooo tentative and throwing the ball late. It really comes down to timing with WR.
Oddly, it's almost reminiscent of the last guy not sure he could trust what he was seeing, or whether targets would be in the spot he expected them to be. He had no issue pulling the trigger down the middle to Reed, or putting a ball right on Wicks's mitts inside the 5.
Podcast: Bill Michaels show 10/30/23
Skip to 18:21 Mike Clemens talked to one of the Vikings safeties about their strategy for defending one of Love's tendencies.
Ironically that DB was beat and only got the INT because it bounced off Reed's chest.
When they talked about the Walker penalty for being downfield that was actually Doubs' mistake. It was a RPO on 3rd and 1 and was supposed to be a quick pass to Doubs but he took off instead of waiting at the LOS for the easy 1st down. Those are the mistakes that kill drives.
Really difficult to evaluate Love's accuracy issues (yes, he's got them) with the offense being a complete mess.
@titmfatied posted:
thanks for the link titmfatied, brutal but honest.
@DH13 posted:Can't establish timing or trust with a WR if he's not running the right routes or doesn't win contested balls.
I just watched the lowlights on Youtube. Love had some misfires but it was a team effort in dropping balls or in Reed's case handing the ball to the defender for an "interception". However, there is a precedence on how to fix this: don't throw to them for the rest of the year.
There's not a single WR running a route. Wut? 
Mentioned this play on the pod the last couple days. As @JuMosq said multiple times on the podcast today - the stuff happening in Green Bay is not normal for NFL teams. You just don’t ever see this stuff at the pro level. https://t.co/cy89KQnhMu
— Andy Herman (@AndyHermanNFL) October 31, 2023
That’s one way to avoid running the wrong route. Just don’t do it at all.
You have to read the comments on that post. It was clearly a mis-read or 10 not communicating "pass" to the offense - everybody was blocking. Also read that the ball was supposed to go to Doubs on a hot read (defender playing off) but Doubs read the D wrong or misunderstood the play call.
No matter the reason, it is still embarrassing. But had Doubs done what 10 though he was going to, the play was there to be had and 10 would have made a good read on the D pre-snap.
Anyone still wondering why 10 is late on his throws? He's not sure where the WRs are going to be.
It's an RPO. If Doubs reads the defense correctly it's an easy first down.
Fire the ball exactly where it's supposed to go and give the coaches a reason to get up everyone else's ass about being at the right place on time for the next game. That's how you hold younger guys accountable and how you get better. Futzing around with everyone doing improv is how you turn the offense into the mess we're watching every week with everyone going in different directions. The QB needs to be the standard everyone else revolves around. Run the offense, don't try to win the game every play and they'll start winning games sooner than if everyone tries to do too much and everyone's head is spinning.
One thing I didn't care for about MLF this season was his directive for players to try to do one thing better a week or two ago. Seems to me like 69 guys went in 69 different directions trying to fix everything their own way.
No one has even mentioned that we still got it to third and 1 after a Vikes penalty, and Myers looks like he went the wrong way on a blocking assignment and left Phillips unblocked! After that first drive the litany of mistakes just continued for this offense.
2nd drive - two dropped passes that both would have been first downs
3rd drive - we have second down and 5 - Love takes a deep drop out of shotgun (obviously looking to throw it down field, and gets sacked for -12 - POOR call by MLF ....get a fricking first down!
4th drive - second down and 6, Runyan gets called for holding
Hard to not root for this kid
@titmfatied posted:The QB needs to be the standard everyone else revolves around. Run the offense, don't try to win the game every play and they'll start winning games sooner than if everyone tries to do too much and everyone's head is spinning.
I'm having trouble reconciling the idea that the qb needs to set the standard with the drops we saw on Sunday. The ball down the middle to Reed was a great throw, maybe a hair underthrown, but absolutely a ball that is Reed's for the taking if he wants it. The slant to Wicks is right on him, nothing any different than we've seen from Rodgers hundreds of times. Heck, we've seen that play to Doubs from Love and it results in tds. How exactly is Love not setting a standard with those throws, especially when most times "trying to win the game every play" stems directly from those missed opportunities? It seems as though that logic puts Love in a nearly impossible position.
@DH13 posted:You have to read the comments on that post. It was clearly a mis-read or 10 not communicating "pass" to the offense - everybody was blocking. Also read that the ball was supposed to go to Doubs on a hot read (defender playing off) but Doubs read the D wrong or misunderstood the play call.
No matter the reason, it is still embarrassing. But had Doubs done what 10 though he was going to, the play was there to be had and 10 would have made a good read on the D pre-snap.
Anyone still wondering why 10 is late on his throws? He's not sure where the WRs are going to be.
To Doubs credit he looks back and sees Love with the ball and immediately disengages his blocker and goes out for a route for Love to throw him the ball. But yeah obviously either Doubs or Watson were supposed to get the ball on a hot read and never caught on.
Everything I've read said Doubs was the one. But it was 3rd and 1. A team should be able to run for that. One team weakness leads to a communication mistake.
Seems like Love has done better with 2 minute offense. A big reason is that the defense doesn't have time to change calls / looks, which has given the offense trouble. I wonder if we could see us go to that early to get the offense going?
@artis posted:I'm having trouble reconciling the idea that the qb needs to set the standard with the drops we saw on Sunday. The ball down the middle to Reed was a great throw, maybe a hair underthrown, but absolutely a ball that is Reed's for the taking if he wants it. The slant to Wicks is right on him, nothing any different than we've seen from Rodgers hundreds of times. Heck, we've seen that play to Doubs from Love and it results in tds. How exactly is Love not setting a standard with those throws, especially when most times "trying to win the game every play" stems directly from those missed opportunities? It seems as though that logic puts Love in a nearly impossible position.
I think the knock on Love is he’s inconsistent. He makes some great throws (even if they are dropped), but then he throws a ball on the ground three feet in front of a wide open receiver.