Ubetcha posted:this may have still happened, but in a more dignified way, if there is such a thing in getting sh!t-canned.
Really don't get this perspective of if somehow not being dignified. Being let go early allowed him more time to assess his next move, and be clearly in the picture when the jobs open up. Much better than being fired really late after several of the job openings had been filled.
The more I read and listen to MM the more I get the feeling that he is “organized “. I wish that he could have translated that into getting more production on the field.
As time goes on I think will people will agree with MM. Fans were bitter with Holmgren the way he left GB for a long time it felt like, at some point we only remember for the positives times in GB. It's starting to happen with Favre and the same will be true with MM. We can rationalize it by saying we did him a favor or GB needed to get a head start, but ultimately that wouldn't have made a difference for either party and those are just crappy excuses. We treated a coach who had been here for 13 years, won a SB, has a street named after him, like he was a coach who had been here for 3 years and meant nothing to the organization...like he was one of the coaches that cycle through the Jets or the Dolphins. Like or hate MM he's a Packer HOFer and he deserved to leave on his own terms. We were out of the playoffs essentially, it wouldn't have made a difference to let him finish his tenure. Murphy fukked up and he should own it.
Timpranillo posted:Ubetcha posted:this may have still happened, but in a more dignified way, if there is such a thing in getting sh!t-canned.
Really don't get this perspective of if somehow not being dignified. Being let go early allowed him more time to assess his next move, and be clearly in the picture when the jobs open up. Much better than being fired really late after several of the job openings had been filled.
I"m referring to MM's perspective of how it went down. Based on Murphy's press conferences of late and the way he just sort of blurts things out, it wouldn't surprise me if did this impulsively after a crappy showing and loss by the Packers at home. This was obviously building to bad end for MM but it maybe it could wait just a couple of days to put some thought into what the right way to do this would be? Never smart to make decisions in the height of emotions.
Obviously. It couldn't have been handled any worse. Anytime you lose a close game, it's a difficult time emotionally afterwards, but when you lose a home game at Lambeau Field in December, it's really hard. And that hasn't happened very often. I walked out of my press conference, and I'm thinking about the game, thinking about how our playoff shot was now minimal. That's where my head was at. And when I was told Mark Murphy wanted to see me -- and the messenger was cold and the energy was bad. Mark said it was an ugly loss, and it was time to make change. He said something about the offense and the special teams, and he didn't think it was going to get any better. There was no emotion to it. That was hard.
Every time I released an individual, you get your words right. There's a personal component to it. You know he has a family. He's family. There wasn't any of that. So that was off. The way people leave that building was very important to me. That's a part of the business. Hopefully moving forward for guys like Clay [Matthews] and Randall [Cobb] and Nick Perry and Jordy Nelson and T.J. Lang, it's important for them to leave the right way. That way represents the Green Bay Packers standard that I tried to uphold every day.
Not allowing Pittsburgh Macho to finish out the season has never struck me as a particularly big deal. Unfortunate that it didn't end nice and clean but that's the nature of the business.
No hard feeling toward MM off the field. I know he's a good man with a great heart. Sucks the way it went down but, it's business, not personal.
It's his ON the field coaching I had a problem with. Losing to the effing Cardinals last year.....completely inexcusable.
Grave Digger posted:As time goes on I think will people will agree with MM. Fans were bitter with Holmgren the way he left GB for a long time it felt like, at some point we only remember for the positives times in GB. It's starting to happen with Favre and the same will be true with MM. We can rationalize it by saying we did him a favor or GB needed to get a head start, but ultimately that wouldn't have made a difference for either party and those are just crappy excuses. We treated a coach who had been here for 13 years, won a SB, has a street named after him, like he was a coach who had been here for 3 years and meant nothing to the organization...like he was one of the coaches that cycle through the Jets or the Dolphins. Like or hate MM he's a Packer HOFer and he deserved to leave on his own terms. We were out of the playoffs essentially, it wouldn't have made a difference to let him finish his tenure. Murphy fukked up and he should own it.
Disagree. Like Coughlin with the Giants, he was coasting on past Super Bowl success and didn't have his heart in the job. Losing at home to the Cardinals was the ultimate insult.
At first I was firmly in the defending MM camp and I wouldn't budge from that. Now with more things that have been coming out I think it was just time and I will say that I was wrong.
I do think that what ultimately was his undoing was keeping Ernest Capers around 3-4 years too long and the roster fell apart with TT's drafts and he couldn't coach up what dregs he had left.
I really would have liked to have been a fly on the wall at 1265 the weeks/months leading up to the firing to hear what exactly was going on. I would bet really good money this firing wasn't out of the blue and a surprise.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/...-pack-handled-firing
"But, hey, I'll never forget the response after, because I put my phone away [that night]. I woke up, and I could not believe my phone. When we won the Super Bowl, I received over 200 texts. That week, I had over 500. I got more than twice as many messages for getting fired than I did when I won the damn Super Bowl. It's remarkable. They were from current and former players, competitors, owners of other NFL teams, politicians, media members, guys I competed against that I had never even talked to. I was blown away by it, and still am."
I'm not saying he shouldn't have been fired, but for all the success he had in GB he didn't deserve to have Murphy take a dump on him after an embarrassing loss. There are parallels with Coughlin, but Coughlin got to finish the season and resign. MM would have done the same, he clearly saw the writing on the wall.
Not sure he would've resigned. We do what we do.
michiganjoe posted:Not allowing Pittsburgh Macho to finish out the season has never struck me as a particularly big deal. Unfortunate that it didn't end nice and clean but that's the nature of the business.
At his after the game PC that day, MM literally had no answers. He looked completely lost and had no idea what to do after that embarrassing loss to the Cards.
To me, at that point Murphy and Gutey really had no other option. Yes, they could have let this drag on, but more then likely more embarrassing moments would have happened that season and you could have seen a public blow up between MM and a key player such as Rodgers.
In other words, it could have gotten much, much uglier.
Stop the bleeding. Cut the ties. Move on.
Well said. I concur.
If they let him play out the string, we don't win another game and end up picking top 10.
"We do what we do"
He was only comfortable with one system . It was a failure with anyone other than ARod running it. When everyone else figured it out, he was done.
Firing him early was the right thing to do if only to send a message that your past successes don't matter. "How are you doing right now?" is (and should be) the metric.
In the NFL, what have you done for me lately is how BB makes it work in New England. No sentiment.
The rest of the league didn't "figure it out and he was done". The rest of the league figured it out long before that, it's not a complicated scheme. But he had the horses to win matchups until age and low draft order/bad draft picks took their toll. You can't win a matchups-dependent scheme with mediocre players. And the constantly descending D didn't do the O any favors.
You could see MM's heart wasn't in it much the past two years, but it was painfully obvious this past year. From the get-go, he had nothing left; no enthusiasm, no smile, no look in his eye that said he was ready for the challenge.
At the end of each year, a coach should step back and take an honest, hard-edged look at him/herself. "Do I WANT to go through the grind next year? Do I want to go through the grind HERE next year?" And it is a grind. If the truthful answer to both those questions is "yes," then you ask your spouse what they honestly see. If you're still good to go, the next question becomes, "What do I need to change about me and my coaching in order to coach this team to a better record next year?" And only then do you start to work on the team...
I maintain the premature death of his brother knocked him for a loop.
You guys are brutal. MM's legacy is apparently only 2 years old.
The loss of his brother three days after the collapse in SEA would put anyone out.
Grave Digger posted:You guys are brutal. MM's legacy is apparently only 2 years old.
Just realistic. For brutal, see what we said about Favre when he ended up on the Vikings.
No sentimentality. The guy was a great coach in GB, won a lot of games, end our 14 year championship dry spell, and he had a bad 2 year run. That's realistic. Saying he didn't deserve to coach out 4 meaningless games (and they were meaningless) despite his accomplishments and what he's done in the community is being petty.
Grave Digger posted:No sentimentality. The guy was a great coach in GB, won a lot of games, end our 14 year championship dry spell, and he had a bad 2 year run. That's realistic. Saying he didn't deserve to coach out 4 meaningless games (and they were meaningless) despite his accomplishments and what he's done in the community is being petty.
In the words of the great Ron Burgundy, we'll just have to agree to disagree. Or is it "When in Rome..."
Grave Digger posted:As time goes on I think will people will agree with MM. Fans were bitter with Holmgren the way he left GB for a long time it felt like, at some point we only remember for the positives times in GB. It's starting to happen with Favre and the same will be true with MM.......... Murphy fukked up and he should own it.
Old timers won't admit it, but legend has it fans were mad at Lombardi when he left for Washington.
Hindsight being 20/20 - wish he would've coached out the season.
Pack wouldve been 4-11-1 & drafting 3rd overall.
Packdog postedOld timers won't admit it, but legend has it fans were mad at Lombardi when he left for Washington.
This old timer remembers it well.
There were some who questioned Lombardi's mantra of loyalty and then handing off to Bengston.
That being said, I don't know when Vince first knew he was circling the drain and I don't blame him for securing a percentage of the Redskins as a financial move.
Boris posted:Hindsight being 20/20 - wish he would've coached out the season.
Pack wouldve been 4-11-1 & drafting 3rd overall.
Excellent point. GB even ****ed that part of it up.
All BS aside, MM should have been gone several years ago as most of you know. It was obvious that AR was carrying the team and covering up holes elsewhere.
That said, the MFer that still needs to go is Murphy. He's horrible.
My theory has always been that Capers dug MM's coaching grave, and Hundley shoveled the dirt on top. I see no reason to change from that.
"There was no emotion to it. That was hard."
Whether anyone thinks MM was fired too early, too late, or at the right time, this is what stinks and created hard feelings.
Murphy is such a choad.
McCho found out he wasn't as hot a commodity as he'd hoped. I call bull$hit the proximity to GB was a deciding factor.
The deciding factor was he has a reputation as a stubborn MF, and no one was desperate enough to roll those dice.
This is his agents pathetic attempt to try and save face and con someone into paying his dumb ass as a HC once again.
YATittle posted:I maintain the premature death of his brother knocked him for a loop.
I would agree. Enough to drive a man to drink.
Ok. I've read all of this stuff, and a couple observations.....
1. "Chode" or "Choad" as it is referred to on here, has the exact same meaning. Seeing that my wife has a name that coincidently rhymes with this term and became a goof nickname in college (before I met her of course
, I believe the correct spelling is "chode". Please respect on my behalf.
2. Everyone brings up legitimate points on MM. Everyone has there opinion, and I'm not going to begin to try and change people's views. But the truth was that the guy deserves our respect. His teams brought us a ton of success over the past decade and half. So many good memories on this website. Not unlike TT who brought 12 to GB, we have absolutely no idea if 12 would have excelled to the level he did without MM's coaching. I personally have doubt anyone would have. I celebrate MM, appreciate him greatly, but also realize like he did that it was time to move on. The timing of the fire is a tough call, but ****in celebrate the guy and get off the criticism.
Tavis Smiley posted:Ok. I've read all of this stuff, and a couple observations.....
Not unlike TT who brought 12 to GB, we have absolutely no idea if 12 would have excelled to the level he did without MM's coaching. I personally have doubt anyone would have.
Whatchu talking 'bout Willis?? Look, MM was a good coach for a period of time. But to suggest, to even hint, that Aaron Rodgers is who he is today because of Mike ****ing McCarthy is blasphemy. Make a fist and punch yourself in the suck.
**Don't actually do that, I'm just playing.
Chongo posted:YATittle posted:I maintain the premature death of his brother knocked him for a loop.
I would agree. Enough to drive a man to drink.
If my memory serves me correctly, that was the brother that he told before the NFCCG in Seattle to buy his tickets for the Super Bowl because they were going, they had the perfect game plan and they were gonna take it to them....
If only AJ Hawk and Brian Bostick had been inactive....
Hypothetical.
Packers beat the Hags in 15 to get to the Superb Owl. Win or lose there.
Everything else remains the same, does the narrative change?
Reading what his wife said, the Packers did him a favor. They might have executed the favor poorly but this was a really unhappy man. He needed time away from this.
Also, I know it's easier said than done but you would hope with all that time off he would spend a little of that spare time concentrating on his physical fitness. Going by his profile I'd say that has not been a priority.
PackerHawk posted:Reading what his wife said, the Packers did him a favor. They might have executed the favor poorly but this was a really unhappy man. He needed time away from this.
Stubborn and sucking isn’t a good place to be.
Sure it was harsh but MM admits his wife saw the silver lining right away. He was exposed by his approach to Brett Hundley season and subsequent failure when AR returned. But It's over and done, I'm tired of talking about MM's shortcomings. Move on.
bvan posted:Packdog postedOld timers won't admit it, but legend has it fans were mad at Lombardi when he left for Washington.
This old timer remembers it well.
There were some who questioned Lombardi's mantra of loyalty and then handing off to Bengston.
That being said, I don't know when Vince first knew he was circling the drain and I don't blame him for securing a percentage of the Redskins as a financial move.
The book on Lombardi by Dave Maraniss - When Pride Still Mattered - shed some light on this. During the 2 seasons prior to his resignation as HC the players noticed he brought a bottle of antacids to the practice field and took some frequently. Maria wanted Vince to go to the doctors and get checked out but he refused - (again a wife could see it first). But he did not have much energy left so I think once he got his 3 championships in a row he was done as HC. In fact after beating Dallas in the NFL championship game (as it was known at the time) Vince told his son that he just saw him coach his 2nd to last game - some words to that effect. But then just being the GM didn't satisfy either, so he looked to get back into coaching. Hence he left for the Redskins but lasted less than 2 years before dying from cancer. But were the fans upset? Yes - and for the reasons BVAN states. Maybe if we had known the truth about his health and what went into all those end of career moves we would have been more understanding. I don't know.
I wonder if he had listened to his wife and gone to the doctor and if they found something that precluded him from coaching if he would have had 3 championships in a row. I wonder if that didn't play into his refusing to go to the doctor. I file that under "things we will never know".
