gbIdaho posted:If Datone leaves, who possibly can replace his tendency to have a bad penalty at a critical moment? <sar>
Intersting to see how the cap space fills up here with Defensive needs remaining. TT never fails to keep it interesting
They still have dumb**** Daniels.
Henry posted:
I don't think it was a bad pick but it was pretty obvious they kept shuffling his role on the defense due to being ineffective. Capers is the only guy I know who can perpetuate the problem of having a different DC every year without ever leaving. See BJ Raji.
He kind of has to when he's handed Glass Joe and a bucket of random chum every year.
Crash-Ka-Bong posted:I assume House was signed to take Hyde's place.
I still cannot imagine we have a plan for Ty to get more than about 10 carries a game. Big Ty fan, just see him breaking down with more carries than that. Ty is a fantastic complimentary back, not a feature back, even in this pass first offense.
I'd guess Rollins/Randall slide and House comes in outside.
SteveLuke posted:With the reacquisition of CB Davon House, the Packers now have just 5 players on their active roster from the 2013, 2012, and 2011 drafts combined (players entering their 5th, 6th, & 7th years in in the NFL, respectively -- that is the primes of their careers).
That seems pretty low for a "draft & develop" organization.
Ouch, that hurts.
There is a bigger picture shift going on here. When is the last time we saw so many starters or split/starters lost/not re-signed? Not suggesting bad/good, just that it is unlike what we have seen the last 5+ offseasons.
Lang
Lacy
Jones
Hyde
Cook
Shields
Tretter
Peppers
ChilliJon posted:Possible RBs in play. Kareem Hunt, Wayne Gallman, Samarje Perine, D'Onta Foreman, Brian Hill, Matthew Dayes, Elijah McGuire. Between round 3 and 6. There will be RBs available to split carries with Ty. Would not surprise me to see Ted take two RBs, which has already been floating around as a possibility for GB in this draft.
I have a feeling it will be Hill if he's on the board in the third, even if a trade up is needed. He seems like a MM/TT guy, otherwise they may wait for Clement or Conner on Day 3 as shorter-yardage guys too, but that seems a big gamble to me.
DH13 posted:There is a bigger picture shift going on here. When is the last time we saw so many starters or split/starters lost/not re-signed? Not suggesting bad/good, just that it is unlike what we have seen the last 5+ offseasons.
Lang-Old, with treadwear
Lacy-Fat, Injury-prone
Jones-Underachiever, miscast
Hyde-Slow, fun, but slow.
Cook-See M. Bennett
Shields- A damn shame
How inconceivable is replacing these guys in the draft? (PS for less $$$)
I'm okay with this level of roster-churning. No one hits on all their picks. I can't name too many guys TT has cut who have gone on to have illustrious careers for a different team. Serviceable, yes, but not stars.
To not do anything even for a couple of years is to invite disaster.
Dammit. Ted needs to hold onto these guys so we can complain that he holds onto guys like this longer than he should. He can't go shifting the narrative like this just because fans have been screaming that things have to change. That's not the way this is supposed to work!
Incredible that Thompson may have actually found a way use free agency to downgrade the worst position on the team. House played on one of the worst teams in the NFL, and look at the defensive snap counts after week 4: 3, 15, 3, 0, 0, 12, 2, 0, 1, 14, 2, 2. 54 defensive snaps over the last 12 games and he was active for all of those games. I guess that's what happens when a player is in the process of allowing an opposing QB rating of 153.3 against him.
Why the hell would Thompson give him 3.5 million dollars? Were there any other team's interested or did Ted just get in a bidding war against himself?
But the best move was re-signing Jayrone Elliott. Thompson wouldn't tender him a RFA contract, which would have cost Green Bay 1.797 million. But Thompson will sign him a to contract for 1.6 million dollars. Good thing Thompson is so thrifty and saved a whooping $197,000 on the Elliott deal. He must be planning to go hog-wild in free agency the next few days and push that cap number right to the limit. LMAO. Silverstein should have a field day with this one (and rightfully so).
At least we are rid of Lacy.
ChilliJon posted:Dammit. Ted needs to hold onto these guys so we can complain that he holds onto guys like this longer than he should. He can't go shifting the narrative like this just because fans have been screaming that things have to change. That's not the way this is supposed to work!
I agree. Don't any of these guys have pictures or something? There is something to be said for preparation.
Below is what Greg Jennings had to say about Lacy today on Colin Cowherd.
“When you’re drafted and you’re a first-round draft pick, especially at an organization like Green Bay who typically drafts well… this was a young man who had the opportunity to do something special within this organization.
“And he wasted it away, because he was unwilling to commit to his personal training. His health. And to that team. It was the ultimate sign of selfishness. He was worried about off-the-field things, whatever that entailed in the offseason, and he didn’t dedicate what he needed to the game and to his personal training, and being prepared and ready to go for a season.
“They didn’t need him to be like typically every other three-down back. They had James Starks. They just needed you to be healthy, to run through the tackles…”
Colin Cowherd: “And not eat cheeseburgers all day.”
Greg Jennings: “…and not eat cheeseburgers. Just reel it in, a little bit.”
Please don't ever quote Greg Jenning's as the voice of reason my friend.
Lacy may have been a great fit for $5.5 million, but by playing left guard.
Blair Kiel posted:Please don't ever quote Greg Jenning's as the voice of reason my friend.
Eeven a blind squirrel finds a not once in a while.
Just like with the whole Favre saga, TT takes the hit, but the coaching staff has a lot of say as to who he brings in & who he lets go. House was rated as one of the league's top CBs in 2015 when they played press man coverage. They went to a zone scheme this year & he was not good in it. I'm sure that TT consulted with our staff as to how he fits with what we do.
PackerJoe posted:Why the hell would Thompson give him 3.5 million dollars? Were there any other team's interested or did Ted just get in a bidding war against himself?
Silverstein should have a field day with this one (and rightfully so).
R E L A X - 3.5 mill is cheap for some veteran leadership. Besides, some of those guys BB picks up didn't play well in a previous stop - but we all think well of him. Sometimes players don't play well because of bad coaching or whatever. If we had all the information TT has, we might understand where he is coming from.
I wouldn't worry about Silver-fish. He & McGinn will be in the unemployment line complaining about how little unemployment pays. Maybe they will co-write a book entitled "Things We Don't Complain About". Should be a very small pamphlet.
Weird week. Ted letting guys go that should be let go. Greg Jennings making sense. Vikings signing ex Packers. Greg saying Eddie was a first round draft pick.
Ok. So not entirely weird.... but weird.
Blair Kiel posted:Please don't ever quote Greg Jenning's as the voice of reason my friend.
I agree. I stopped reading after Jennings said Lacy was a first round pick.
Ghost of Lambeau posted:Blair Kiel posted:Please don't ever quote Greg Jenning's as the voice of reason my friend.
I agree. I stopped reading after Jennings said Lacy was a first round pick.
It is funny how many people forget he was a 2nd round pick. Probably because he was projected to go in the 1st round, and our first round pick that year was Datone.
On that note, RIP the 2013 draft class. Datone (1), Lacy (2), Tretter (4), Hyde (5) all gone.
FLPACKER posted:.... I'm sure that TT consulted with our staff as to how he fits with what we do.
What's that? Watching the other team score TD's. Sorry, couldn't resist. I'm glad house is back in GB.
Blair Kiel posted:Please don't ever quote Greg Jenning's as the voice of reason my friend.
Or Colin Cowherd.
SteveLuke posted:With the reacquisition of CB Davon House, the Packers now have just 5 players on their active roster from the 2013, 2012, and 2011 drafts combined (players entering their 5th, 6th, & 7th years in in the NFL, respectively -- that is the primes of their careers).
That seems pretty low for a "draft & develop" organization.
Damn.
I see this and it does make me wonder whether TT is the master of the draft that we make him out to be. I've been in that group; I've long looked at an upcoming draft day and thought "What is Ted Thompson (a/k/a Green Bay's Santa) going to bring us this year?" And don't get me wrong, he certainly hits on picks here and there. But he also has a lot of misses.
I noticed you cleaned up those thoughts on Ted and Aaron in short order. Good call.
As Buddy Nix said, the difference between a genius and a failure as a GM is finding a franchise quarterback.
GreenNgoldBlood posted:That's absolutely ridiculous.
GreenNgoldBlood posted:Ted is always the smartest guy in the room
I can't help but wonder if this mass exodus of free agents is about what T.T. And McCarthy anticipated, or if this is a sign that there are a fair number of guys on the team who have stopped buying in to Capers or McCarthy. That may be reading too much into the departure of 6 (soon to be 7 with Cook) free agents, but the idea crossed my mind. (Maybe we'll get the inside scoop from ECPB's brother! ;-)
RoyalWulff posted:I can't help but wonder if this mass exodus of free agents is about what T.T. And McCarthy anticipated, or if this is a sign that there are a fair number of guys on the team who have stopped buying in to Capers or McCarthy. That may be reading too much into the departure of 6 (soon to be 7 with Cook) free agents, but the idea crossed my mind. (Maybe we'll get the inside scoop from ECPB's brother! ;-)
I look at as a bunch of draft choices that played out their contracts and got paid by a bunch of stupid GM's shelling out way more money than they were worth.
In a perfect world they would have kept Lang and probably Tretter. However, Lang got paid more than he was worth and maybe Tretter just wasn't valued as highly as we all thought?
I keep going back to the Josh Sitton move and they didn't miss a beat there. Rest assured if the the JC and Lang replacements don't work out we will hear about it but I'm going to trust the process at this point.
Losing Cook? Who cares. They signed a better player (Bennett) and a solid #2 in Kendricks.
Losing Datone and Eddie? Help me understand what kind if impact they made last year??
Micah Hyde. Good player, but Buffalo should get kicked out of the league for making that deal. It's teams like the Bills that keep driving up the cost of free agents.
SteveLuke posted:With the reacquisition of CB Davon House, the Packers now have just 5 players on their active roster from the 2013, 2012, and 2011 drafts combined (players entering their 5th, 6th, & 7th years in in the NFL, respectively -- that is the primes of their careers).
That seems pretty low for a "draft & develop" organization.
Did you compare the Packers to any other team? Are there in fact other teams that have less of their draft choices? Prove to me that all other 31 teams or at least a majority have more there draft choices from these years.
To me draft and develop means you draft guys and if they don't develop you draft new guys. Maybe Hyde didn't develop into what TT thought he would. Same with Lacy. Injuries also play a roll into whether guys are kept or move on, be it other teams or other careers.
Lambeau Lobo posted:SteveLuke posted:With the reacquisition of CB Davon House, the Packers now have just 5 players on their active roster from the 2013, 2012, and 2011 drafts combined (players entering their 5th, 6th, & 7th years in in the NFL, respectively -- that is the primes of their careers).
That seems pretty low for a "draft & develop" organization.
Damn.
I see this and it does make me wonder whether TT is the master of the draft that we make him out to be. I've been in that group; I've long looked at an upcoming draft day and thought "What is Ted Thompson (a/k/a Green Bay's Santa) going to bring us this year?" And don't get me wrong, he certainly hits on picks here and there. But he also has a lot of misses.
Wait! A bunch of those guys just signed for multi-million dollar contracts elsewhere. It's not like guys like Eddie Lacy are sitting at home as busts. Losing players. That's what happens when you win. Time to move on, draft some more guys and develop them.
ammo posted:SteveLuke posted:With the reacquisition of CB Davon House, the Packers now have just 5 players on their active roster from the 2013, 2012, and 2011 drafts combined (players entering their 5th, 6th, & 7th years in in the NFL, respectively -- that is the primes of their careers).
That seems pretty low for a "draft & develop" organization.
Did you compare the Packers to any other team? Are there in fact other teams that have less of their draft choices? Prove to me that all other 31 teams or at least a majority have more there draft choices from these years.
To me draft and develop means you draft guys and if they don't develop you draft new guys. Maybe Hyde didn't develop into what TT thought he would. Same with Lacy. Injuries also play a roll into whether guys are kept or move on, be it other teams or other careers.
Nope didn't compare GB's 5 remaking drafted players from 2011-2013 drafts to the 31 other teams.
Just noted that for a self-professed draft & develop team, having only 5 players from the 2011-2013 drafts is not exactly what you'd expect.
Now, don't get me wrong I am thrilled that TT has apparently finally recognized that always signing your own is foolish. I mean he could have easily paid Datone Jones & Lacy the one year deals they got. Instead, he acknowledged his 2013 1st round mistake and let Jones go to a 4-3 team where he always belonged and recognized his 2013 2nd round pick lacked the necessary commitment to the game. Kudos to TT (or whomever directed him to stop signing his own guys at all costs).
If and when TT uses his remaining pot of money to bolster the remaining weak spots by signing additional veteran free agents the transition away from the silly nearly exclusive reliance on draft & develop will be nearly complete.
Finally, the idea that you draft a Jones & Lacy in the first & second rounds in 2013 and then have them signed away 4 years later in the primes of their career for compensatory 6th round picks (at best) and that somehow signifies draft and development success for the Green Bay Packers makes no sense.
Sign vets. Any vets. Pay them lots of money. Super Bowl. Never fails. Not sure TT is the silly one. Lots of silly in the post above.
SteveLuke posted:Nope didn't compare GB's 5 remaking drafted players from 2011-2013 drafts to the 31 other teams.
Just noted that for a self-professed draft & develop team, having only 5 players from the 2011-2013 drafts is not exactly what you'd expect.
Maybe because it's 2017 and the average NFL career is roughly 3 years and in turn about half the roster is made up of players we drafted/signed as undrafted from the 2014-2016 drafts (within the last 3 years). Also 94% of the roster overall is made up of players drafted or signed as UDFA's by GB which does speak to the "professed" draft and develop strategy. Also we have 6 players from the 2011-2013 draft classes still, 5 of which are starters, 4 of those 5 are top 100 NFL players (Cobb, Daniels, Perry, Bakhtiari)...4 top 100 players from 3 drafts isn't that bad of a haul.
Geez, hope ted knows what he's doing.
PackerJoe posted:Incredible that Thompson may have actually found a way use free agency to downgrade the worst position on the team. House played on one of the worst teams in the NFL, and look at the defensive snap counts after week 4: 3, 15, 3, 0, 0, 12, 2, 0, 1, 14, 2, 2. 54 defensive snaps over the last 12 games and he was active for all of those games. I guess that's what happens when a player is in the process of allowing an opposing QB rating of 153.3 against him.
Why the hell would Thompson give him 3.5 million dollars? Were there any other team's interested or did Ted just get in a bidding war against himself?
But the best move was re-signing Jayrone Elliott. Thompson wouldn't tender him a RFA contract, which would have cost Green Bay 1.797 million. But Thompson will sign him a to contract for 1.6 million dollars. Good thing Thompson is so thrifty and saved a whooping $197,000 on the Elliott deal. He must be planning to go hog-wild in free agency the next few days and push that cap number right to the limit. LMAO. Silverstein should have a field day with this one (and rightfully so).
At least we are rid of Lacy.
See FLPacker's post. What were his stats when he played in GB as a press corner? Actually complaining about TT signing a guy for less. Brilliant.
ammo posted:SteveLuke posted:With the reacquisition of CB Davon House, the Packers now have just 5 players on their active roster from the 2013, 2012, and 2011 drafts combined (players entering their 5th, 6th, & 7th years in in the NFL, respectively -- that is the primes of their careers).
That seems pretty low for a "draft & develop" organization.
Did you compare the Packers to any other team? Are there in fact other teams that have less of their draft choices? Prove to me that all other 31 teams or at least a majority have more there draft choices from these years.
To me draft and develop means you draft guys and if they don't develop you draft new guys. Maybe Hyde didn't develop into what TT thought he would. Same with Lacy. Injuries also play a roll into whether guys are kept or move on, be it other teams or other careers.
I went back and looked the Patriots 2011, 2012, and 2013 drafts.
In this year's Super Bowl they had 6 draft picks on the roster from those 3 years.
2011: Nate Solder (1), Marcus Cannon (5)
2012: Hightower (1), Ebner (6)
2013: Logan Ryan (3), Duron Harmon (3)
Here's the other Super Bowl teams 2011-13 drafts (Falcons)
2011: Julio Jones (1), Matt Bosher (6-punter)
2012 - no one
2013- Trufant (1), Alford (2), Toilolo (4)
The Falcons only have 5 guys from those drafts as of last month and one of them is the punter.
If Hightower signs elsewhere, the Patriots will also have 5 players from those drafts on next year's team - the same as the Packers.
The key to winning in the NFL is having enough guys playing well on their rookie deals (Years 1-4) to save enough money to pay SELECT guys their second contract to get years 5-8 if they are worth it.
Goalline posted:Lambeau Lobo posted:SteveLuke posted:With the reacquisition of CB Davon House, the Packers now have just 5 players on their active roster from the 2013, 2012, and 2011 drafts combined (players entering their 5th, 6th, & 7th years in in the NFL, respectively -- that is the primes of their careers).
That seems pretty low for a "draft & develop" organization.
Damn.
I see this and it does make me wonder whether TT is the master of the draft that we make him out to be. I've been in that group; I've long looked at an upcoming draft day and thought "What is Ted Thompson (a/k/a Green Bay's Santa) going to bring us this year?" And don't get me wrong, he certainly hits on picks here and there. But he also has a lot of misses.
Wait! A bunch of those guys just signed for multi-million dollar contracts elsewhere. It's not like guys like Eddie Lacy are sitting at home as busts. Losing players. That's what happens when you win. Time to move on, draft some more guys and develop them.
Look at the actual picks. There are a lot of complete busts on there. For example, take Datone Jones. He was a first round pick. I don't care that another team just signed him; the fact is that he was a complete bust for a first round pick. As for Lacy, based upon his entire four years, he was a disappointment.
We all know TT's approach; he likes to keep his productive players, especially while they are still young. He's letting guys like Lacy, Jones, etc. walk because they were not impressive and they're not worth resigning.
Goalline posted:Sign vets. Any vets. Pay them lots of money. Super Bowl. Never fails. Not sure TT is the silly one. Lots of silly in the post above.
I don't see anyone suggesting that TT should hand out ridiculous contracts; many are simply suggesting that he should utilize free agency more. His signings of Bennett and Kendricks suggest that he's more willing to do so. That's a good thing.
Look at the recent Super Bowl champs - Pats, Broncos, Seahawks, Ravens, etc. Those teams all used free agency to supplement their roster. None of them were a strict draft-and-develop-only.
I'm fine with TT letting these guys walk, as long as he is willing to utilize free agency to help fill those holes. It appears he will do so, so I'm not complaining.
