Henry posted:PackerJoe posted:See FLPacker's post. What were his stats when he played in GB as a press corner? Actually complaining about TT signing a guy for less. Brilliant.
DUH!, No player will actually help us win until TT pays them like a king. That's the way it is done in this NFL, you know? Teams like the Daniel Snider led Redskins and the Vikings have tons of trophies to demonstrate this.
Look at Martellus already getting deep into the Packer playbook!
Ummmmm. He's pretty good.
Bob McGinn@bobmcginn. Eddie Lacy's 1-yr, $4.25M deal w/Sea includes weight clause linked to a $385,000 workout bonus. S-bonus of $1.5M. Base of $1.365 guaranteed.
Andrew Brandt@andrewbrandt. See weight clauses in Lacy-Sea deal. Learned not to do those, guys would sit clothed in sauna for hours day before weigh-ins. Got depleted.
ChilliJon posted:Ummmmm. He's pretty good.
But we miss all the entertainment associated with those extra 76 interceptions from Favre.
ChilliJon posted:Weird week. Ted letting guys go that should be let go. Greg Jennings making sense. Vikings signing ex Packers. Greg saying Eddie was a first round draft pick.
Ok. So not entirely weird.... but weird.
I blame daylight savings starting.
Not that I expect Ted to do anything, but a 2017 pro bowl OL is getting released...
Aditi KinkhabwalaVerified account
@AKinkhabwala Looks like#Ravens bidding adieu to veteran OL Jeremy Zuttah. Person apprised of team's plans says he'll be released today, 6 days into FAThis will be the first Pro Bowl appearance in Zuttah’s nine-year career.
The 30-year-old center started all 16 games last season and graded out as the Ravens’ fifth-best offensive player by Pro Football Focus. Zuttah will replace Pittsburgh’s Maurkice Pouncey, who had to drop out of the game.
MichiganPacker posted:ammo posted:SteveLuke posted:With the reacquisition of CB Davon House, the Packers now have just 5 players on their active roster from the 2013, 2012, and 2011 drafts combined (players entering their 5th, 6th, & 7th years in in the NFL, respectively -- that is the primes of their careers).
That seems pretty low for a "draft & develop" organization.
Did you compare the Packers to any other team? Are there in fact other teams that have less of their draft choices? Prove to me that all other 31 teams or at least a majority have more there draft choices from these years.
To me draft and develop means you draft guys and if they don't develop you draft new guys. Maybe Hyde didn't develop into what TT thought he would. Same with Lacy. Injuries also play a roll into whether guys are kept or move on, be it other teams or other careers.
I went back and looked the Patriots 2011, 2012, and 2013 drafts.
In this year's Super Bowl they had 6 draft picks on the roster from those 3 years.
2011: Nate Solder (1), Marcus Cannon (5)
2012: Hightower (1), Ebner (6)
2013: Logan Ryan (3), Duron Harmon (3)
Here's the other Super Bowl teams 2011-13 drafts (Falcons)
2011: Julio Jones (1), Matt Bosher (6-punter)
2012 - no one
2013- Trufant (1), Alford (2), Toilolo (4)
The Falcons only have 5 guys from those drafts as of last month and one of them is the punter.
If Hightower signs elsewhere, the Patriots will also have 5 players from those drafts on next year's team - the same as the Packers.
The key to winning in the NFL is having enough guys playing well on their rookie deals (Years 1-4) to save enough money to pay SELECT guys their second contract to get years 5-8 if they are worth it.
Applaud looking at the SB contestants to see how their rosters were put together.
The analysis above is not really complete, however, as it is limited to players DRAFTED BY NE & Atlanta between 2011-2013 rather than players whose careers started during those years. Unlike the Packers prior to this offseason, those 2 teams supplemented their rosters with multiple players whose careers began in 2011-2013 through free agency and trades.
For example, NE added Dion Lewis (2011), Hogan (2011), Sheard (2011), McClellin (2012), Mingo (2013) and Atlanta added Sanu (2012), Upshaw (2012), and Reed (2011) (among others). The Pack meanwhile had only one player from outside the roster whose career began between 2011-2013, Christine Michael.
Teams that rely almost solely through the draft (as the Pack has done the past several years) die by the draft when the picks don't pan out & players are not retained as opposed to teams like NE and Atlanta that use free agency & trades in addition to the draft and undrafted free agents.
Jumal Rolle is out there!
Guys I'd think are on the radar:
Connor Barwin
Jamaal Charles
Jhari Evans
Chris Long
Manti Teo
Billy Winn
Yep. Atlanta is a model of building a roster the right way. Never mind they didn't qualify for the postseason between 2013 and 2015. They went 18-30 those three years playing in a **** division. They picked 6th overall in the 14 draft. 8th overall in the 15 draft. 17th overall in the 16 draft. Those last two picks netted Beasley and Neal. It's nice picking in the top 10.
Dont waste anyone's time that Atlanta knows how to build a roster because they sucked for years, got top 10 picks, and then caught lightning in a bottle.
Yes, MUCH greater chance to get all pro type players in the first 15 picks, which makes what we & NE have done even more impressive.
SteveLuke posted:MichiganPacker posted:ammo posted:SteveLuke posted:With the reacquisition of CB Davon House, the Packers now have just 5 players on their active roster from the 2013, 2012, and 2011 drafts combined (players entering their 5th, 6th, & 7th years in in the NFL, respectively -- that is the primes of their careers).
That seems pretty low for a "draft & develop" organization.
Did you compare the Packers to any other team? Are there in fact other teams that have less of their draft choices? Prove to me that all other 31 teams or at least a majority have more there draft choices from these years.
To me draft and develop means you draft guys and if they don't develop you draft new guys. Maybe Hyde didn't develop into what TT thought he would. Same with Lacy. Injuries also play a roll into whether guys are kept or move on, be it other teams or other careers.
I went back and looked the Patriots 2011, 2012, and 2013 drafts.
In this year's Super Bowl they had 6 draft picks on the roster from those 3 years.
2011: Nate Solder (1), Marcus Cannon (5)
2012: Hightower (1), Ebner (6)
2013: Logan Ryan (3), Duron Harmon (3)
Here's the other Super Bowl teams 2011-13 drafts (Falcons)
2011: Julio Jones (1), Matt Bosher (6-punter)
2012 - no one
2013- Trufant (1), Alford (2), Toilolo (4)
The Falcons only have 5 guys from those drafts as of last month and one of them is the punter.
If Hightower signs elsewhere, the Patriots will also have 5 players from those drafts on next year's team - the same as the Packers.
The key to winning in the NFL is having enough guys playing well on their rookie deals (Years 1-4) to save enough money to pay SELECT guys their second contract to get years 5-8 if they are worth it.
Applaud looking at the SB contestants to see how their rosters were put together.
The analysis above is not really complete, however, as it is limited to players DRAFTED BY NE & Atlanta between 2011-2013 rather than players whose careers started during those years. Unlike the Packers prior to this offseason, those 2 teams supplemented their rosters with multiple players whose careers began in 2011-2013 through free agency and trades.
For example, NE added Dion Lewis (2011), Hogan (2011), Sheard (2011), McClellin (2012), Mingo (2013) and Atlanta added Sanu (2012), Upshaw (2012), and Reed (2011) (among others). The Pack meanwhile had only one player from outside the roster whose career began between 2011-2013, Christine Michael.
Teams that rely almost solely through the draft (as the Pack has done the past several years) die by the draft when the picks don't pan out & players are not retained as opposed to teams like NE and Atlanta that use free agency & trades in addition to the draft and undrafted free agents.
SteveLuke - good discussion. I think the key is to maximize the number of contributors you have that are on rookie contracts or on reasonable mid-level free agent deals. I agree that TT should have been more aggressive in looking into Lance Kendricks/Davon House veteran type free agents rather than relying so heavily on his own recent draft picks.
Just to further discussion, the 2010 Packer Super Bowl team's contributors from drafts from the equivalent years to your comparison (2005-06-07) are as follows. This supports your argument. A lot of major contributors even without considering getting a Top 5 QB all-time
2005: Rodgers (1), Collins (2), Poppinga (4)
2006: Hawk (1), Colledge (2), Jennings (2), Spitz (3)
2007: B. Jackson (2), James Jones (3), Crosby (6), Bishop (6)
Tschmack posted:In a perfect world they would have kept Lang and probably Tretter. However, Lang got paid more than he was worth and maybe Tretter just wasn't valued as highly as we all thought?
I keep going back to the Josh Sitton move and they didn't miss a beat there. Rest assured if the the JC and Lang replacements don't work out we will hear about it but I'm going to trust the process at this point.
Losing Cook? Who cares. They signed a better player (Bennett) and a solid #2 in Kendricks.
Losing Datone and Eddie? Help me understand what kind if impact they made last year??
Micah Hyde. Good player, but Buffalo should get kicked out of the league for making that deal. It's teams like the Bills that keep driving up the cost of free agents.
I agree, Tschmack. Given this team's tendency to get to the NFC championship game and then stall, I think an infusion of new blood could be just what we need. Losing a starter on the OL always makes one nervous, though. And I had hoped that Lacy would stay to give us a "thunder and lightning" backfield with Monty and EddieBurgerEater. I love Monty, but I hope we have one more experienced RB on the roster before the season starts.
Lambeau Lobo posted:Goalline posted:Sign vets. Any vets. Pay them lots of money. Super Bowl. Never fails. Not sure TT is the silly one. Lots of silly in the post above.
I don't see anyone suggesting that TT should hand out ridiculous contracts; many are simply suggesting that he should utilize free agency more. His signings of Bennett and Kendricks suggest that he's more willing to do so. That's a good thing.
Look at the recent Super Bowl champs - Pats, Broncos, Seahawks, Ravens, etc. Those teams all used free agency to supplement their roster. None of them were a strict draft-and-develop-only.
I'm fine with TT letting these guys walk, as long as he is willing to utilize free agency to help fill those holes. It appears he will do so, so I'm not complaining.
TT also signs free agents, but people like you are always hoping he signs a billion trillion dollar free agents so you refuse to acknowledge it.
267 pounds???? Jeebus, Eddie! Way to shoot your high paying career in the foot! What a maroon, as Bugs Bunny used to say.
Goalline posted:Lambeau Lobo posted:Goalline posted:Sign vets. Any vets. Pay them lots of money. Super Bowl. Never fails. Not sure TT is the silly one. Lots of silly in the post above.
I don't see anyone suggesting that TT should hand out ridiculous contracts; many are simply suggesting that he should utilize free agency more. His signings of Bennett and Kendricks suggest that he's more willing to do so. That's a good thing.
Look at the recent Super Bowl champs - Pats, Broncos, Seahawks, Ravens, etc. Those teams all used free agency to supplement their roster. None of them were a strict draft-and-develop-only.
I'm fine with TT letting these guys walk, as long as he is willing to utilize free agency to help fill those holes. It appears he will do so, so I'm not complaining.
TT also signs free agents, but people like you are always hoping he signs a billion trillion dollar free agents so you refuse to acknowledge it.
It is true that TT signs free agents.
But the undisputed facts show that TT has signed fewer veteran free agents, street or unrestricted, than every other NFL GM. That is how GB has been able to lead the league in having the fewest number of players who have ever appeared on another NFL roster for several years running.
Well that and the fact TT has not made a trade for a player who has actually stuck on the roster longer than 3 weeks (hello Knile Davis) since ...?
TT has also had the second most wins in the league since he came aboard. You have provided evidence to show that TT is doing the right thing, yet you can't see it yourself. How silly.
By your opinion, TT should be following the blueprint set aside by the GM's of the Browns. Is that what you want?
Since March 2015. Jacksonville has signed 19 free agents. Total commitment of those contracts was $541 million. Actual dollars spent to date is $128 million. Of those 19 signed 8 have already departed. They are trying to shed more.
Jax is 8-24 the last two years.
Ted signed two of the top 20 Free Agents in 2017. One of them just happens to be a guy he drafted. So no one really gives him credit for signing a coveted free agent.
Let's sum up these 25 pages:
"I'm going to complain under the veil of not complaining because the Packers do win but not as much as my personal happiness demands"
ChilliJon posted:
Let's sum up these 25 pages:
"I'm going to complain under the veil of not complaining because the Packers do win but not as much as my personal happiness demands"
Amen!
Goalline posted:TT has also had the second most wins in the league since he came aboard. You have provided evidence to show that TT is doing the right thing, yet you can't see it yourself. How silly.
By your opinion, TT should be following the blueprint set aside by the GM's of the Browns. Is that what you want?
Second most wins, but how many Super Bowl titles with the best QB in football under center?? Look, it's hard to deny that Ted is negligent when it comes to utilizing EVERY option at his dispoal to build a roster. Look at how many trades NE has made over the past # of years..usually none of them costing them much at all, and those players have almost always been key contributors for them. ted never trades. God forbid he give up some precious draft picks once. The ONLY way the defense will get better is with some playmakers...playmakers you aren't likely to get picking as low as they do every year. So why Ted has never entertained the idea of using his first rounder for the current year and even the following year(if necessary) to move up to get said playmaker is beyond me.
I mean picking as late as they do every year, it's like having a 2nd round pick anyway, so what's the big deal?? Sadly..and this is pathetic, but I'm guessing the reason he never does anything bold like that isn't so much the picks he's giving up, but the $$ it would cost to sign a higher draft pick. That's just freaking sad. He's costing Arodg a legit chance at more Super Bowl titles.
Just remember, Arodg contract is up in two years, and there is NO guarantee he would stay in GB. I really don't think he's a fan of Ted and the way he does things. I could totally see Arodg leaving in 2 years because he doesn't want to deal with Ted's lack of improving the team anyway he possibly can. That would be a huge middle finger to ted and the way he does business, and I wouldn't blame Arodg one bit. The beauty would be coming here and reading all the posts here from people that are basically under the table fallating Ted. Bet that wouldn't be the case if it caused Arodg to leave, would it??
Goalline posted:TT has also had the second most wins in the league since he came aboard. You have provided evidence to show that TT is doing the right thing, yet you can't see it yourself. How silly.
By your opinion, TT should be following the blueprint set aside by the GM's of the Browns. Is that what you want?
The best in the business, without a doubt, is New England. How do they build their team? They draft well. They make trades. They sign key free agents.
Why are they successful? They do a good job evaluating talent and finding players that fit their system and compliment their roster.
Lambeau Lobo posted:Goalline posted:TT has also had the second most wins in the league since he came aboard. You have provided evidence to show that TT is doing the right thing, yet you can't see it yourself. How silly.
By your opinion, TT should be following the blueprint set aside by the GM's of the Browns. Is that what you want?
The best in the business, without a doubt, is New England. How do they build their team? They draft well. They make trades. They sign key free agents.
Why are they successful? They do a good job evaluating talent and finding players that fit their system and compliment their roster.
Perfectly stated. Imagine that, a team that actually utilizes EVERY avenue they can to build a roster. What a novel concept.
ChilliJon posted:Since March 2015. Jacksonville has signed 19 free agents. Total commitment of those contracts was $541 million. Actual dollars spent to date is $128 million. Of those 19 signed 8 have already departed. They are trying to shed more.
Jax is 8-24 the last two years.
And came within a whisker of beating the Packers....
Home season opener in 212 degree weather for a team that really, really really believed they were good.
It was a great win for the Pack.
New England should have lost the last four Super Bowls they've played in. They did lose two of them. The other teams ****ed the pooch in the those two games. Badly.
Dont give New England credit they fell into. Don't take away credit that GB got close. Don't give Atlanta credit when they **** down their leg in their lone big chance. Don't give Seattle cedit because they couldnt back it up.
Henry posted:
I didn't know Donald Trump was a break dancer.
Timmy! posted:ChilliJon posted:Since March 2015. Jacksonville has signed 19 free agents. Total commitment of those contracts was $541 million. Actual dollars spent to date is $128 million. Of those 19 signed 8 have already departed. They are trying to shed more.
Jax is 8-24 the last two years.
And came within a whisker of beating the Packers....
Funny too because GB starrted 4-6 and wasn't going anywhere because they weren't all in.
ChilliJon posted:New England should have lost the last four Super Bowls they've played in. They did lose two of them. The other teams ****ed the pooch in the those two games. Badly.
Dont give New England credit they fell into. Don't take away credit that GB got close. Don't give Atlanta credit when they **** down their leg in their lone big chance. Don't give Seattle cedit because they couldnt back it up.
So give less credit to the team that barely won and more credit to the team that barely lost. Got it.
Do you really want to go down that path? Do you really want to make that argument?
Face it. The Pats have been a more successful franchise than us over the past 20 years, even though we've had better and more consistent QB play during that time. Even though I believe Rodgers is a better overall QB, they've put Brady in a position to put together the better career (certainly in terms of achievements).
ChilliJon posted:New England should have lost the last four Super Bowls they've played in. They did lose two of them. The other teams ****ed the pooch in the those two games. Badly.
Dont give New England credit they fell into. Don't take away credit that GB got close. Don't give Atlanta credit when they **** down their leg in their lone big chance. Don't give Seattle cedit because they couldnt back it up.
You can spin it anyway you want, but the point remains, NE uses EVERY avenue available to them as far as building their roster goes, and because of that, they are always in the position they are in. They tradefor players , they resign their own key guys, they utilize UFA(and not just low $$ guys), they trade draft picks(Brandin Cooks). I have zero idea why any GM would deliberately choose to not use every avenue avaible to him to improve his roster, yet Ted does. Frankly, it's irresponsible and incomprehensible.
What years in the last 5 have we not been realistic superbowl contenders?
I mean a really solid chance of going to the superbowl.
The answer is Dom Capers.
You forgot one avenue New England uses, CHEATING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What years in the last 5 have we not been realistic superbowl contenders?
2013, the year Rodgers broke his collarbone.
Of course, Bob McGinn thought the Packers could go 11-5 without Rodgers.
Sonofabitch. Goddammit, y'all have finally convinced me. Screw Green Bay. Go PATRIOTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
El-Stalker-Bong posted:What years in the last 5 have we not been realistic superbowl contenders?
I mean a really solid chance of going to the superbowl.
The answer is Dom Capers.
Dom is a scape goat for many, but the fact is, he hasn't been given a lot of talent to work with. You can't make chicken sald out of chicken Sh*t. Hypothetically speaking, let's say the Packers would have signed Donta Hightower, and AJ bouye this year..think the Defense wouldnt have been significantly improved?? Of course it would have been. Would that have been because of Dom suddenly, or because they brought in more talent??
TT, he sucks because he's not Belichick. Apparently, every other team also has a Belichick.
It was a simple question.
Ted has built a supebowl caliber team more often than he hasn't
Hypothetically, if they won the superbowl in 2015, they would have one more superbowl
GreenNgoldBlood posted:El-Stalker-Bong posted:What years in the last 5 have we not been realistic superbowl contenders?
I mean a really solid chance of going to the superbowl.
The answer is Dom Capers.
Dom is a scape goat for many, but the fact is, he hasn't been given a lot of talent to work with. You can't make chicken sald out of chicken Sh*t. Hypothetically speaking, let's say the Packers would have signed Donta Hightower, and AJ bouye this year..think the Defense wouldnt have been significantly improved?? Of course it would have been. Would that have been because of Dom suddenly, or because they brought in more talent??
If your point is that TT sucks, because he hasn't produced great defensive tallant, I'm with you. TT hasn't drafted all that spectacularly well on defense. If your point is that free agency is the solution, I think you are nuts. Even the Patriots, with all their wheeling and dealing, will point to drafted players as the long term difference makers...for the most part.
/Fire Ted
/actions
/actions
/actions
/Win Superbowl
/Pat self on back
MichiganPacker posted:Some of that cap room may be used to extend a 2018 free agent or two.
The free agents next year are Burnett, Lane Taylor, Jayrone Elliot, Don Barclay, Davante Adams, RichRod, Linsley, Demetri Goodson, and Jan!s.
You would think Linsley is a priority as well as Burnett.
I know Henry and others will want to make sure we lock up Barclay long term.
Taylor, Linsley, Burnett, Adams, end of list.
