I see some football players taken in this draft, most likely no 'stars' but that's ok. Plug in guys and depth were needed in GB. If 3 or 4 can make long time contributions really that would be a win. Time to coach em up!
DH13 posted:You're missing the clear indication that this FO and coaching staff has supreme confidence in what it currently has at WR. We used to take RD2 or 3 WRs every year, even when there was more talent already on the roster. Not a one taken today. No high round WR taken since Adams. Is that 5 years ago?
Isn’t that how you end up need picking Randall, Rollins and Josh Jones and playing them out of position?
I get the point. The draft should always be BPA but GB got into a terrible run of draft need with shitty coaching going back to 2013 and are trying everything to get out of that rut by dipping into FA.
Im totally fine with Adams, Allison, Scantling, EQ, Kumerow, Moore at WR. There is a shit load of draft capital there. I love Tonyan and Sternberger long term at TE. I hope Jimmy Graham has 1 good year left.
Just think this draft was finally about BPA and value.
Graham has no good years left. That was proven last year.
Want to see Graham with a staff that actually knows how to use TEs. Nothing with TEs in GB was proven the last 12 years.
I'm no Graham apologist and he's not nearly the player he once was, but he was on pace to set several single season TE records for GB until he got hurt and injured his thumb.
This is the pace he was on after the first 6 games:
All told, Graham’s numbers through six games have him on pace for these stats over a full 16-game season:
- 120 targets
- 72 receptions
- 931 yards
- 3 touchdowns
The first 3 numbers are Packer TE records. The TD's would have sucked but I think that number would have been higher. Plus as Chili said, Stubby and his staff never could figure out how to use a TE.
No way in effing hell GB would have EVER considered a guy like Sternberger in the draft under Mikes offense. Got to go all the way back to 2015 to find the last TE GB stepped out and actually drafted a TE. Kennard Backman in the 6th round. He worked out great.
Funny thing is GB found the importance of TE and starting signing every TE FA imaginable. Just couldn’t figure out how to use any of them effectively.
Should never have let Cook go in favor of Bennett. Cook and AR were starting to form a chemistry even though Cook was hurt for part of the year.
Cook went on to do well in Oakland and Bennett completely disappeared off the face of the earth after his disastrous partial season in GB.
I’ll take Tonyan and Sternberger and a year of Graham and move on over keeping an overpaid and misused Cook. And if Lewis can teach the kids how blocking extends a career then I’m totally down with 100% of the TE room.
Well Chili, they ended up paying Bennett and Graham a lot more than they would have paid Cook. I agree that he would have continued to have been misused as long as Stubby was in control though.
I'm also okay with the current TE room for the time being if Lewis and the Coaches can teach the kids to block. (Tonyan and Sternberger that is. It's way too late for Graham.)
Tonyan and Sternberger. That’s all that matters now. They have a TD catching legend and a block loving TE to learn from and a HC that wants them to soak up all of it and then let them go to work.
Interior OL slobs. Draft capital at WR. 3 good backs. Aaron Jones on the verge of just needing more opportunities. Aaron Rodgers wanting to run the ball more.
Yes. I like all of it.
Offense. Also pretty clear the plan this year is to actually run the football. A lot. And then run it again
Until LaFleur decides the Packers do what they do.... 
Draft Capitol at WR is another way of saying the best they could do to fill their roster is have a bunch of day 3 guys and lunchpail jesus fill it out. The best collection of receivers this franchise ever had was full of day 2 picks, plus Driver.
DH13 posted:Draft Capitol at WR is another way of saying the best they could do to fill their roster is have a bunch of day 3 guys and lunchpail jesus fill it out. The best collection of receivers this franchise ever had was full of day 2 picks, plus Driver.
If you are right, Gute's head is up his ass because he doesn't know what the hell he is doing with respect to acquiring decent wide receivers. With your reasoning, his 3 WR picks were stupid as they were WR picks and they needed to be made for other positions.
The converse is that he knows what he is doing with WR's meaning at least one of the three becomes a legitimate #2 at the least.
I have said it before and I won't say it again.
I feel awesome about the draft except I am totally perplexed and concerned about RT. If Bulaga goes down, which is not exactly highly unlikely, WE HAVE CRAP TO REPLACE HIM WITH.
Protect the franchise my a$$.
I am ecstatic with Gute's work with the interior of the line, by the way.
Isn’t Turner a possibility to fill in at RT?
Maynard posted:Isn’t Turner a possibility to fill in at RT?
If you are right, I have no problem with a retraction!
But, Bulaga simply is not sufficiently reliable. He just isn't.
Yeah, great when healthy but not healthy for 17 weeks. I hear ya. But I think Turner can play some tackle. There’s always Spriggs!!!
According to Benjamin Albright the Packers were going to take Drew Lock at 44 (Aaron Nagler confirmed this report). But the Broncos traded up and grabbed him.
phaedrus posted:I have said it before and I won't say it again.
I feel awesome about the draft except I am totally perplexed and concerned about RT. If Bulaga goes down, which is not exactly highly unlikely, WE HAVE CRAP TO REPLACE HIM WITH.
Protect the franchise my a$$.
I am ecstatic with Gute's work with the interior of the line, by the way.
I'm more worried about Bakhtiari going down. Turner, Madison, Jenkins maybe even Taylor are all talented enough to fill in at right tackle as a swing guy, depending on who ends up starting inside.
DH13 posted:You're missing the clear indication that this FO and coaching staff has supreme confidence in what it currently has at WR. We used to take RD2 or 3 WRs every year, even when there was more talent already on the roster. Not a one taken today. No high round WR taken since Adams. Is that 5 years ago?
..and it appears no WR taken as an UDFA, either.
ChilliJon posted:DH13 posted:You're missing the clear indication that this FO and coaching staff has supreme confidence in what it currently has at WR. We used to take RD2 or 3 WRs every year, even when there was more talent already on the roster. Not a one taken today. No high round WR taken since Adams. Is that 5 years ago?
Isn’t that how you end up need picking Randall, Rollins and Josh Jones and playing them out of position?
I get the point. The draft should always be BPA but GB got into a terrible run of draft need with shitty coaching going back to 2013 and are trying everything to get out of that rut by dipping into FA.
Im totally fine with Adams, Allison, Scantling, EQ, Kumerow, Moore at WR. There is a shit load of draft capital there. I love Tonyan and Sternberger long term at TE. I hope Jimmy Graham has 1 good year left.
Just think this draft was finally about BPA and value.
Pssssssst...despite saying different there is always a whole lot of need picking in every draft by everybody. They just wont admit it. Trade ups are the tell.
Splains about 90% of all marriages too.
So I really, really like the guys we got, but some thoughts about.
If we hadn't taken Gary at 12, who would have been a better pick? If front 7 (which is where the value was at the top of this draft), ILB Bush was gone, DL Christian Wilkins went at 13 and his Clemson teammate Dexter Lawrence went at 17. OLB/pass rusher options were Brian Burns who went 16 and Montez Sweat who went 26. My take is Pettine and Gutekunst wanted another pass rusher, one they could move around outside/inside like Z'Darius Smith. I agree with that. That wasn't Lawrence (run-stuffer only) or Burns (outside pass rush only). Sweat might've been the best option for that, but with 25 teams passing him by, was it because of his heart issue or other? He's still an enigma to me. I think Wilkins would've been the next best choice, but think Gary offers so much more potential. With all his risks, Bob McGinn still had Gary ranked #2 behind only Williams -- and ahead of Ed Oliver. Wilkins fifth, Lawrence sixth. I like the Gary choice, and the challenge for Pettine and his OLB/DL position coaches to harness his freakish abilities.
Gutekunst said he rated Savage as best safety in the draft, plays to his safety-best 4.35 speed, and traded up because he wouldn't have been there at 30. And we specifically needed a free safety to complement Amos. OK. When you re-read McGinn's rankings, Abram and Blair can't cover, Adderly and Rapp too slow, all four not good free safety choices. Juan Thornhill to me sounds like the next best free safety type. Bigger (6'0") than Savage, almost as fast (4.44). Thornhill lasted until the very end of the second round. We took G/C Jenkins in the early second at 44. Would we have been better off taking an OT at 30 -- with a choice of Kaleb McGary, Jawaan Taylor, Greg Little, Cody Ford, Dalton Risner (I liked Ford the best) -- then Juan Thornhill at 44 and kept both our 4th round picks? Boy, hard to pass that up -- except taking into account that Savage was the first safety taken and Thornhill the sixth more than a full round later. So maybe the difference between Savage and Thornhill really was significant. Hoping Savage is just so damn good he'll prove Gutekunst right. Related, when looking at McGinn's ratings and where the various safeties actually were drafted, his 6th best S (Savage) went first at #21 in the first round and his 7th rated S (Blair) went third, high in the second round. His 3rd highest ranked S (Gardner-Johnson) went in the 4th round. So pretty obvious NFL GMs had a much different safety ranking top to bottom.
Almost all the remaining Packer picks I have zero issue with. TE Sternberger in the 3rd looks like an excellent need/value match. DE Keke in the 5th reads extremely well, ascending player. CB Hollman in the 6th, at 6'0" 190 with 4.37 speed from a small school looks like a very good pick. RB Dexter Williams in the 6th not blazing fast, but appears to be the kind of one-cut runner tailor-made for LaFleur's running game. ILB Ty Summer offers all you can ask for from a 7th round pick, good Special Teams ability worst-case.
The cut off for elite talent always seemed to be right around 10. I wanted Gutekunst to trade down, but I'm not sure there was a clearly better option than Gary at 12.
sschumer, I like your reasoning and I don't think anyone could've argued with it had it happened that way. The only thing I would say is that 4.36 is a good bit faster than 4.44 in a straight line.
We'll see about Dexter.
I simply don't think anyone was interested enough in the 12th pick to present a trade down opportunity for GB or I believe there's a good chance they would have taken it. Washington let the board play out and still got Haskins at #15 who they may have wanted all along. Miami traded for Rosen which may have been their plan all along too. I still probably wouldn't have taken Gary but I think we were stuck with the pick. I always felt that pick #12 was going to leave us in a weird place this year.
heyward posted:The cut off for elite talent always seemed to be right around 10.
Not according to Chris Ballard.
heyward posted:I wanted Gutekunst to trade down, but I'm not sure there was a clearly better option than Gary at 12.
There wasn't. You can't invent or manufacture a player that isn't there. Devin Bush himself said he'd take Gary before himself. Shows what a good player & teammate Bush is too which explains why Steelers traded up & stole him from Bungles.
People think Gary is "overrated". With the talent on the DL & now the secondary - I believe we need to see Gary on the field before making any judgments.
I still say Clelin Ferrell was going to be the Packers pick until the friggen Raiders couldn't trade down so they over drafted him.
Sure was important to win those Jets & Falcons games! Whew....thank God the Pack won those 2! Where would the Pack be without those 2 wins?!?!?
Drafting Josh Allen instead of Rashan Gary. Probably keeping one of their 4th rounders and getting an Isaiah Johnson to help in the Defensive backfield when King gets hurt. Maybe getting Jawaan Taylor as Bulaga's heir. Getting a higher-rated TE like Josh Oliver over Sternberger (though I'm cool with Sternberger also).
Here's the Jags draft, and Green Bay would have been in front of them.
| Round | Selection | Player | Position | College |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | 7 | Josh Allen | Linebacker | Kentucky |
| 2 | 35 | Jawaan Taylor | Offensive tackle | Florida |
| 3 | 69 | Josh Oliver | Tight end | San Jose State |
| 3 | 98 | Quincy Williams | Linebacker | Murray State |
| 5 | 140 | Ryquell Armstead | Running back | Temple |
| 6 | 178 | Gardner Minshew | Quarterback | Washington State |
| 7 | 235 | Dontavius Russell | Defensive tackle | Auburn |
Josh Allen, Darnell Savage, Jawaan Taylor, Josh Oliver, Isaiah Johnson would have been a nice haul.
If Packers lost both Jets & Falcons games, they would've been 4-11-1 & drafting 4th overall behind Cards / Niners / Raiders.
Knowing the Cards / Niners selections aren't changing (Kyler & Bosa) The Packers would've had 1 of....
- Quinnen Williams
- Josh Allen
- Clelin Ferrell
Oh BTW....they still would've traded up to get Savage too.
I'm guessing the #4 pick would've been a toss-up between Q & J.A. assuming Raiders stick with Clelin Ferrell - even if they don't, the Packers are getting one of Q or J.A or Ferrell.
Ahhhh.....what could've been. 
Or... Gute would have stayed at #4, taken Rashan Gary, and sent X4 into a tailspin.
could have taken wilkins - that's insurance for 76 or kenny clark. and lookng at 76 is in a contract year. that's what i would have done. i don't like burns and too high for fant. if they didn't like the tackles wilkins would work just great. i like the interchangeable piece theory, but i also think you can be jack of all trades, master of none...hope they don't fall into that 'smartest guy in the room' mentality.
pkr_north posted:could have taken wilkins - that's insurance for 76 or kenny clark. and lookng at 76 is in a contract year. that's what i would have done. i don't like burns and too high for fant. if they didn't like the tackles wilkins would work just great. i like the interchangeable piece theory, but i also think you can be jack of all trades, master of none...hope they don't fall into that 'smartest guy in the room' mentality.
What's to say Wilkins isn't a bust? We see the same schit every year. Guys are graded out to be studs and then they don't amount to jack in the NFL for one reason or another.
I'm pretty damn happy with the Gary pick. His physical traits are off the charts. He could end up being the best player in the 2019 draft.
Or he could bust too.
Getting down on him without seeing him in the league or how he progresses is silliness.
I kind of get the feeling Wilkins is more of a "sure thing" than Gary, but nobody really is a 100% sure thing in football. I think Wilkins is maybe more advanced than Gary, but I believe he's also 2 years older. Kenny Clark was on the younger side when he was picked and really came on in the NFL, maybe they think Gary can go on the same path.
Sure seems like the pre-draft and even current narrative on Gary is pretty distorted. Some how his work ethic is being questioned as well as his production. After watching multiple games, reading what teammates and coaches have said about him, and seeing his eye-popping measurables, I've got high hopes for him. He's going to be as good as he wants to be.
all i kept hearing was: they have GOT to hit on pick 12, you don't get this opportunity often, etc, etc, so to me, wilkins was a less risky pick and has really good tape, and he's uber smart and he won the Campbell award for community service, to me, that's a cornerstone guy. gary can be great, if he wants to be...but he hasn't shown it on tape yet...maybe he was hurt, etc...but that's risky at 12. there is no clear answer on his shoulder.
Gary has physical tools that you can't coach or teach. His ceiling is very high.
Wilkins' production at Clemson could very well be a byproduct of lining up next to Ferrell and Lawrence.
The bottom line is nobody knows, and that includes NFL scouts and GM's. There are countless examples of highly rated players that flop and very low draft picks that excel.
It's a crapshoot, plain and simple. Gary has the tools worth gambling on IMO.
