It's to the point where they should just have the conferences play madden against each other.
@Fedya posted:Ditch the Pro Bowl.
I did, circa 1970
@Pikes Peak posted:I did, circa 1970
See, I'm not that old. 
I've been hearing a lot of talk about GB switching to a 4-3 Defense, for this next season. How does a switch like that change our draft strategy, as far as our DL, LB rooms go?
I don't think it does. Van Ness, Gary, and Smith all play around 6'4" 270lbs so seem to all have the body type to play with their hand in the dirt and hold the edge. Clark and Slaton have the size to play NT. Wyatt and Brooks seem to be natural 3-techs. Enagbare seemed to be more of a 3-4 OLB but he's hurt, so needed a replacement for him anyways.
And they have Walker, Campbell, and McDuffie at LB. Not an ideal LB crew but these issues at off the ball LB exist no matter what defense they run. I'd be happy if they signed a legit MLB or drafted one high.
I actually think the roster fits a 4-3 defense better than a 3-4. 3-4 was popular awhile back b/c teams had problems drafting 270 lbs DEs that were athletic enough to rush the passer and big enough to hold the edge. Easier to find CMIII's who were 250 lbs and athletic and ask a 310 lb DE to go after the OT. Plus, few teams ran a 3-4 making it easier to find the personnel. That's changed.
The lack of athleticism at LB is even greater in a 4-3 base if Campbell is gone. Right now they have Quay, and that’s really it. McDuffie is small and slow. Maybe Preston can man a spot in base, but that’s often not playing to his strengths. While Barry was a huge part of the problem, they also have a hodge-podge of players on the defense.
As Gute said in his presser...it's a 4-2-5 league. The majority of snaps are played with that alignment.
Here's Draftek's take on the Packers needs in graphic format, you can see the rest of the teams in the link
https://www.drafttek.com/2024-...ckers-Draft-Page.asp
I think I'd call it a DT need over an NT need for that middle row. Packers have both TJ Slaton and Jonathan Ford for the Gilbert Brown role.
The rest looks reasonable
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@Herschel posted:The lack of athleticism at LB is even greater in a 4-3 base if Campbell is gone. Right now they have Quay, and that’s really it. McDuffie is small and slow. Maybe Preston can man a spot in base, but that’s often not playing to his strengths. While Barry was a huge part of the problem, they also have a hodge-podge of players on the defense.
Of course there is no chance they will draft a good to great player to fill that role or maybe even sign a FA. We'll just leave that position empty.
For a 4-3 to work properly, and particularly in a 4-2 alignment, the defense needs speed at the LB positions.
The Packers have 1 (Walker) and a few generally good LBs who are s-l-o-w.
Whether it's via draft or FA, we need a fast LB that can cover sideline to sideline.
sign budda baker, S is not such a hot button topic? maybe even one of the other FA guys...
@ammo posted:Of course there is no chance they will draft a good to great player to fill that role or maybe even sign a FA. We'll just leave that position empty.
Sure, but the topic at hand was which scheme does their current roster fit more. They'd need an off-ball linebacker either way if Cambell goes, and for a decent 4-3 base they most likely need one more than they would have.
@Herschel posted:The lack of athleticism at LB is even greater in a 4-3 base if Campbell is gone. Right now they have Quay, and that’s really it. McDuffie is small and slow. Maybe Preston can man a spot in base, but that’s often not playing to his strengths. While Barry was a huge part of the problem, they also have a hodge-podge of players on the defense.
Don’t give a shit about McDuffies 40 time and weight. He finds the ball more than Quay and Campbell. LB is all about instincts and reaction time, he has them. He gets there because he makes up his mind to do so faster.
@BrainDed posted:Don’t give a shit about McDuffies 40 time and weight. He finds the ball more than Quay and Campbell. LB is all about instincts and reaction time, he has them. He gets there because he makes up his mind to do so faster.
What do us fans want: there have been many on here who criticize Gute for drafting athletes and trying to fit them to positions, but then we criticize a player like McDuffie who is a football player without the measureables. Of course, we all want it all: guys who can run like a deer, hit like a bull, and think like a pigskin Einstein, but they are pretty rare.
So, which would you take: players who are lesser athletes or athletes who are lesser players?
It’s not an absolute dichotomy, but there are athletic baselines that are simply necessary to function well in the NFL. If a player is short on one, they need to be elite in others to make up for it. Your hope is that coaches can take better athletes who are good players and increase those skills.
Jaire is an example of a guy who’s rather short, but he has elite speed and fluidity to help counter it.
Richard Sherman, from the other side, had elite size and strength (and a press scheme) to make up for a lack of top-end speed. He also fell to Round 5 because there were so many questions if his elite traits were enough of a counter.
@PackLandVA posted:I would be pretty happy (pre-combine) with a totally unsexy, boring Graham Barton at #25.
Yeah, I’m in the boat of wanting a pair from Kingsley Suamataia, Barton, Troy Fautanu, Jackson Powers-Johnson and Dominick Puni. All could play multiple spots and maybe help make an elite offensive line.
Getting, say, Barton, Suamataia and if Gutekunst really likes an Edgerin Cooper (LB) or Darius Robinson (DL) in the first couple rounds would be a bit anxiety inducing, but there may well be DB value in the middle rounds.
@Packiderm posted:Players every time
Yes. Guys like Zach Thomas, and the guy from Carolina who I am having a brain fart trying to remember his name. Sam?
Mills.
Still, that's like saying every 6th-round QB is Tom Brady. There are ridiculously few exceptions that make it to long or superstar NFL careers.
So, are we at a point where we can go total BPA in the first couple rounds or are we still at BPA at a position of need?
@RochNyFan posted:Yes. Guys like Zach Thomas, and the guy from Carolina who I am having a brain fart trying to remember his name. Sam?
luke kuechly?
@FLPACKER posted:As Gute said in his presser...it's a 4-2-5 league. The majority of snaps are played with that alignment.
It is. 2 linebackers that can run and cover with a Safety creeping into the box that can cover tight ends and/or slots and can still support the run. Then the other Safety is more of a play on the ball type. D-Line needs to be stout though. With all of the spread formations we can't get caught with Preston Smith covering wide receivers, or anyone for that matter.
No Barry fan , but the whole "Preston in coverage" thing has gotten totally overblown as an indictment of his incompetence. MOST 3-4 team uses that call a couple of times a game to try to get an unblocked rusher on the opposite side. They drop the OLBer into zone coverage, thus leaving the LT with no one to block, creating a numerical advantage on the opposite side. The risk is that you have no control over who that OLBer has to "cover" in his zone, thus the poor optics of an OLBer "covering" a WR. You don't see it with 4-3 teams much.
@Packy posted:So, are we at a point where we can go total BPA in the first couple rounds or are we still at BPA at a position of need?
Is Edge a need for GBP? I think it is, so, in 2 mocks I did on PFN, I got Jared Verse, Edge , Fla St. with our 1st round pick at 25. I'd consider Verse a BPA at our pick.
@FLPACKER posted:No Barry fan , but the whole "Preston in coverage" thing has gotten totally overblown as an indictment of his incompetence. MOST 3-4 team uses that call a couple of times a game to try to get an unblocked rusher on the opposite side. They drop the OLBer into zone coverage, thus leaving the LT with no one to block, creating a numerical advantage on the opposite side. The risk is that you have no control over who that OLBer has to "cover" in his zone, thus the poor optics of an OLBer "covering" a WR. You don't see it with 4-3 teams much.
True, and it’s also why 3-4 teams tend to draft and deploy at least one quick, bendy guy around 250# rather than running dual elephants. Clay Matthews could drop and usually be fine.
It also doesn’t help when they can read your tendencies and have a good idea when that’s coming to exploit the matchup.
@FLPACKER posted:No Barry fan , but the whole "Preston in coverage" thing has gotten totally overblown as an indictment of his incompetence.
Totally agree.
His incompetence was allowing guys like Tommy Cutlets and Bryce Young to have career games and not putting any pressure on them.
Somehow.... After the Panther game, the defense improved 🤔 I wonder why that is?
But anyway....I want more first round defense on this team. 9 or 10 first rounders.
He isn't injured.
I’ll go on record an say I want the kid from Iowa as long as the intent is safety. I was dead wrong about Jackson, but I’m going for it again.
DeJean has to overcome the whole "white guys aren't fast enough to play DB" stereotype, much like McCaffrey did at RB. This kid is very athletic
@FLPACKER posted:DeJean has to overcome the whole "white guys aren't fast enough to play DB" stereotype, much like McCaffrey did at RB. This kid is very athletic
Well, he can dunk, shoot, and pass. But can he defend, intercept, and tackle? 🤔
Hopefully a little better than Abdul "From Hell" Hodge 😉
I'm all in for DeJean and would trade up to get him if necessary.
@PA green & gold posted:Well, he can dunk, shoot, and pass. But can he defend, intercept, and tackle? 🤔
@Pakrz posted:I'm all in for DeJean and would trade up to get him if necessary.
Ehh, he’s from Iowa, I never get overly excited over a defensive player from Iowa. Stand pat and if he’s there when we pick take him otherwise draft someone/something else