@BrainDed posted:

I don’t think I could hate RAS and PFF bullshit anymore than I do.   It’s all pointless bullshit.    Can the man play football better than the other men?   Trying to fit that into a algorithm is nonsense.

It's all part of the puzzle. Yes a player needs to be able to play but often a player's "play" in college doesn't transfer to the NFL because they aren't big, fast, or strong enough. We've seen it too many times. That's what RAS tris to quantify.

Just like how you can't draft layers solely on RAS, you can't draft solely based on their play in college. Josh Jackson vs. Jaire Alexander is a classic example why you can't just look at on-field performance and ignore RAS. And there are plenty of examples going the other way. Point is - you need both to determine a players chance at NFL success. 

@Herschel posted:

It's only stupid if you don't understand it.

Guys like Abdul Hodge and Amari Rodgers were good college players, but lacked the baseline athleticism to cut it in the pros. The level of competition and athleticism in the NFL is just so far beyond what guys face in college that if you can't stack up physically, you have very little chance of making it.

The NFL is a freak’s league. It’s not enough to be good at football. Being good at football is the most important metric but it is not the only one that matters.

@BrainDed posted:

I don’t think I could hate RAS and PFF bullshit anymore than I do.   It’s all pointless bullshit.    Can the man play football better than the other men?

In a vacuum, sure. But as mentioned already, it's another tool/metric/basis to grade an athlete's floor/ceiling/potential. An athlete may be raw and/or inexperienced in college but have tremendous measurables.  And that might make an athlete desirable.

Question: how many college football players are nominated/win college awards based on their play only to find out their play in college doesn't translate to the NFL?

@Herschel posted:

It's only stupid if you don't understand it.

Guys like Abdul Hodge and Amari Rodgers were good college players, but lacked the baseline athleticism to cut it in the pros. The level of competition and athleticism in the NFL is just so far beyond what guys face in college that if you can't stack up physically, you have very little chance of making it.

That's a polite way of putting it. 

DL May be a target too.

https://lombardiave.com/posts/...y-clark-01hsmfgaemx9

And how many undie champs shoot up the draft board to eventually stink in the NFL?

I’ll take the player over the cross fit champ every time.

None.

Teams may go back and look at a guy who tested better than they thought and it can break “ties”, but poor results are more likely to drop a player.

Area scouts already have an approximation of athleticism in their write ups. Testing can confirm their assessment but doesn’t cause massive improvements in valuation unless an area scout whiffed.

The testing gives us a better frame of reference for relative athleticism.

The team's draft boards have been generally set since January. Gutey has said this numerous times

I wonder if Gutey gets sick and lets me pick for him, if he would be happy with this haul?

@BrainDed posted:

And how many undie champs shoot up the draft board to eventually stink in the NFL?

I’ll take the player over the cross fit champ every time.

The point is, the best players are often BOTH. They are both good at football and good in the underwear Olympics.

You don’t have to chose one or another until later in the draft. Choose a good football player who is slow as hell and you get a player who can’t cut it in the NFL. Choose a good undies Olympian who can’t play football and you get a bad footballer.

Lack of information is not an advantage. Improper use of that advantage is a disadvantage.

@Goalline posted:

The point is, the best players are often BOTH. They are both good at football and good in the underwear Olympics.

20,000 scholarships available in just D1 football, even more in the other tiers
Of those, about 400 will be good enough to get drafted or invited to camp
Of those, 180 or so will stick around for more than 1 season.

That's less than 1% of the college football scholarships making it in the NFL

That's why you need the underwear Olympics to provide some insight and some separation between all of those talented, but maybe not- quite- talented- enough players. Wielded properly, it's really useful info

Additionally, we have the owners meetings this week and once again the owners are passing more rules to take football out of football
They want to preserve their gravy train and will do anything necessary to keep it growing and flowing. And that means more safety, less "football"

So the line between " football players" and athletes is getting thinner by the day.
We don't need massive Gilbert Browns anymore - that sort of player is out of the game. We don't need Ronnie Lott patrolling the deep throws and decapitating WRs - those guys have been legislated out of the game.
Ray Nitschke ? A liability in coverage and a walking penalty flag. We just don't use those type of football players anymore. Damn shame

The game has changed because of the legislation from the owners.
Its basketball on grass.
In the old days, you won your roster spot by lining up across from your team- mate and knocking him on his ass. Repeatedly. Man vs man, battle royale.

Now you win your roster spot by extra studying and knowing your responsibilities backwards & forwards. We saw this play out with the battle between JRJ and Sean Rhyan at RG. Rhyan is the better "football" player, but he wasn't consistent on his tests/quizzes/responsibilities.

The hottest coaches aren't the Vince Lombardi types, they are the whiz kids who can pencil- whip their opponent. Its a game that features the space between the ears way more than ever before and actually penalizes the human confrontation and controlled violence we loved in the past.

Football changed, so "football" players change too

That means Adapt or Perish for the scouting teams
That means adapt or find something else to do for fans

Excellent post.

@Goalline posted:

Excellent post.

Thank you kind sir, I was standing on your shoulders when I wrote it...

^^Sator-accheus!!!

@Satori posted:

The hottest coaches aren't the Vince Lombardi types, they are the whiz kids who can pencil- whip their opponent. Its a game that features the space between the ears way more than ever before and actually penalizes the human confrontation and controlled violence we loved in the past.

Does this explain Bellicheat not getting a head coach position?  No doubt he is as smart as they come but it is not the old boys coaching league any longer.

@Satori posted:

Thank you kind sir, I was standing on your shoulders when I wrote it...

My very narrow shoulders? I hope you didn’t fall.😊

@ammo posted:

Does this explain Bellicheat not getting a head coach position?  No doubt he is as smart as they come but it is not the old boys coaching league any longer.

Belicheat didn’t get a job because he’s a control freak who sucks at personnel.

@ammo posted:

Does this explain Bellicheat not getting a head coach position?  No doubt he is as smart as they come but it is not the old boys coaching league any longer.

I would not be surprised if Belichik was not 100% on board to coach this season, given the opportunities available.  I know he interviewed for some of the HC positions, and even went on second interviews.  But I think he's looking for a really good fit, and wouldn't be surprised if he has his eye on Dallas as a possibility after next season.

@PackLandVA posted:

I would not be surprised if Belichik was not 100% on board to coach this season, given the opportunities available.  I know he interviewed for some of the HC positions, and even went on second interviews.  But I think he's looking for a really good fit, and wouldn't be surprised if he has his eye on Dallas as a possibility after next season.

Dallas, Philly, and Buffalo are all potentially in play if those teams fall short again this year. All those jobs are better than anything that was open this year except for the Chargers job.

As an owner, you don't want BB coaching a young team or a non-established QB.

Since this is the "Official 2024 Draft Thread"

Here's a link to The Huddle Report Value Board, by position

https://www.thehuddlereport.com/valueboard.shtml

And player evals are linked here:

https://www.thehuddlereport.com/talentboard.shtml

Huddle Report is the one who runs the mock draft contest every year, McGinn has done well vs his peers over the years

Currect draft crush:

Quinyon Mitchell CB/DB Toledo

@Goalline posted:

The point is, the best players are often BOTH. They are both good at football and good in the underwear Olympics.

@"We"-Ka-Bong posted:

🤣🤣🤣🤣 I bet he hates that picture.

None athletic positions like pocket QBs and kickers exempt.

https://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/...green-bay-packer-757

IMHO it would be nice if we could reunite the Melton brothers in GB.

Having the Melton brothers in GB would be like having these guys on the team:

@Goalline posted:

🤣🤣🤣🤣 I bet he hates that picture.

None athletic positions like pocket QBs and kickers exempt.

And yet, he got all the girls!

@Satori posted:

And player evals are linked here:

https://www.thehuddlereport.com/talentboard.shtml

Huddle Report is the one who runs the mock draft contest every year, McGinn has done well vs his peers over the years

So If I'm reading this correctly, Drew B. Has about 38 players with a first round grade & 7 of them.... QB's.

If that's the Case, Gutey probably stands pat with his picks or possibly moves up to get extra picks in round 2.

Top heavy draft....just like we've been hearing.

As I shared before, the only people who don’t see that Cole Bishop is the top safety in this class are folks whose ego won’t let them admit that they simply just didn’t know about him before the Senior Bowl and/or the Combine!

JUST EVALUATE THE FILM!#HeIsGoingToGoEARLY 👊🏾 https://t.co/7rUN7Sa20m

— Tazim Wajid Wajed (@NFLHitman33) March 25, 2024

does not look like he is a big fan of Cooper Dejean.

Gutey said this draft is strong at safety. (Video Titm posted in other thread).

Man-cover skills fits right in with what this defense wants to do. Cole Bishop. 

I’ll admit, Bishop and Dadrian Taylor-Demerson are two of the guys I’d love to see in Green Bay, but It probably depends on what they’re looking for.

If they want a safety with the best slot cover skills to go with deep versatility, Gutekunst could prefer Javon Bullard, DT-D, Tykee Smith, Malik Mustapha or maybe Calen Bullock.

Bishop offers better size than all but Bullock, though, and tackles a lot better than Bullock.

Assuming no trades, if the Pack can have three of the following players after the 2nd round, I would be ecstatic:

• Tyler Guyton, OT
• Kingsley Suamataia, OT
• Jordan Morgan, OT
• Graham Barton, G
• Cooper Beebe, G
• Edgerrin Cooper, LB
• Cole Bishop, S

Then get two of these guys in R3:

• Max Melton, CB
• Christian Mahogany, G
• Dominick Puni, G
• Braelon Allen, RB
• Kiran Amegadjie, OT

IMO, need to get a minimum 2 OL (prefer 3) out of the first five picks.

Packers do so well drafting Olinemen after the 2nd round I don;t know if they go for one early.  I could maybe see them going interior Olinemen earlier than normal since Myers and Ryann are kind of Meh.  The only 1st round lineman they have drafted in the past 25 years was Bulaga and he was OK. But of course they rarely if ever draft offense in the 1st round anyway. I could see them trading their 1 and one of their 2s to move up for a corner back. Quinyon Mitchell or bust....

2011 R1 Derrick Sherrod OT.

@Boris posted:

Gutey said this draft is strong at safety. (Video Titm posted in other thread).

Man-cover skills fits right in with what this defense wants to do. Cole Bishop.

I could make the case to take Bish at #25...could tell from the jump he was better than any of the "top guys" like Nubin.

Lots of hybrid type DB too that may be higher value for Gutey...guys like DeJean and Oregon's Khyree Jackson, and the S/Slot from USC whose name escapes me right now.

Guys like Kool-Aid and Wiggins are freak afletes...but they are one-trick ponies. They are boundary corners.

Hafley needs athletic, position flexible guys...to me that's why I could see Trotter Jr ending up with the Packers...because though he isn't a size DFH, he's a flexibility DFH.

@Packiderm posted:

And yet, he got all the girls!

That’s a pretty guy.

@Boris posted:

So If I'm reading this correctly, Drew B. Has about 38 players with a first round grade & 7 of them.... QB's.

If that's the Case, Gutey probably stands pat with his picks or possibly moves up to get extra picks in round 2.

Top heavy draft....just like we've been hearing.

Trade down to load up on top 50 picks.

@Chongo posted:

As I shared before, the only people who don’t see that Cole Bishop is the top safety in this class are folks whose ego won’t let them admit that they simply just didn’t know about him before the Senior Bowl and/or the Combine!

JUST EVALUATE THE FILM!#HeIsGoingToGoEARLY 👊🏾 https://t.co/7rUN7Sa20m

— Tazim Wajid Wajed (@NFLHitman33) March 25, 2024

That’s a big slow TE.

@Goalline posted:

That’s a big slow TE.

And Bishop's feet get "stuck" as the guy runs at him. Bishop makes a nice recovery on the TE's cut, but it almost looks like Bishop knows what the route is because of how his feet stop. I'm thinking if he did the same thing to a quicker WR, he's not going to get there in time.

But, I haven't seen him in a game...