Clean pocket on the horrible pass to Adams where he passed up an open Lazard (and apparently where the play was designed to go). Poor decisions by the QB were probably a bigger factor in the game than pressure was.
@michiganjoe posted:Herman has seen the all-22 and it shows what most of us suspected.
Huh, interesting stuff about Rizzi around the 8:44 mark.
I get it. The thing then comes down to you as a QB trusting the system and not becoming the hero in your own story narrative...you trust the MLF calls, you trust your guys, he just doesn't do that in ANY of the last 5 playoff games. he zero's in on 17; and in this game decided to include 33 in his circle - you cannot do that against really good pressuring defenses, it is a TEAM effort, I just think that AR thinks he is the smartest guy in the room and that is the downfall of him.
Just parroting what we already know...they fucked up lowBALLing him (Rizzi).
Not sure who is going to be available to be STC, but it can't be any worse than DrayMo.
Packers need a longsnapper too...the shitbag they brought in needs to go back to the CFL.
With the avalanche we're staring at for the offseason, I've somehow forgotten all about ST.
listen, 89 fumbled, 49 drops an easy catch...13 was money, I also didn't see 18 get a lick...I think that you go back to the guys - BECAUSE the play was setup for that guy...he did it all year, if a pass was dropped, flat out dropped, or fumbled or whatever, he went back to that guy, 19, 13, I remember lots of those examples; in the playoffs, he just FORGETS it all and wants to write his own movie script, like he's writing his NFL films mini-movie for when he wins the SB and he's the MVP...and he's narrating, you just got to play together and take what you get, he doesn't do that in the playoffs, time in time out. it is gut wrenching for us and it's time to move on - we will suck for a period...until the next qb situation is figured out, but I would rather suck then be a perennial bridesmaid...honestly.
I found the commentary on Deguara verrrrrry interesting. 49ers ignored him essentially. LaFleur's scheme made him a safety outlet often, probably because 49ers wouldn't consider him a threat. Rodgers didn't go to him, likely because of "trust". 49ers probably took advantage of that - Rodgers won't throw him because he doesn't trust him. Chicken-egg scenario.
Lastly, it was a bit disheartening to hear that Rodgers did not play within the structure of LaFleur's offense, missing opportunities. I wonder if deep down, LaFleur wouldn't mind working with a ball of clay who will play within his scheme.
Of course he does. It's why he reacted the way he did when they drafted Love. But that ball of clay won't have elite skills.
@michiganjoe posted:Clean pocket on the horrible pass to Adams where he passed up an open Lazard (and apparently where the play was designed to go). Poor decisions by the QB were probably a bigger factor in the game than pressure was.
So Herman picked out and talked about one play to Lazard.
You know what was the biggest factor in the loss? Special teams.
@pkr_north posted:I just think that AR thinks he is the smartest guy in the room and that is the downfall of him.
He's dumb! IQ wise, he's probably OK, but his ego won't let that come out.
@Henry posted:When was that?
STOP! I'm not going to go back to find your own words for you.
Because they aren't there. I don't make stupid, inane, red herring comments like "you think Davante sucks".
You also don't seem to get this isn't "pro-Rodgers". It's pro-fire the fucking FO.
@Henry posted:You know what was the biggest factor in the loss? Special teams.
ST certainly was a contributory factor in the loss, but need to get more production from your MVP QB (and offense) than ten points in the biggest game of the year. Rodgers give you even a "C" game and the team wins.
@michiganjoe posted:ST certainly was a contributory factor in the loss,
I love this phrase. It's used all across the board with a big BUT right after it to grind whatever axe a poster has. Hell, I used it.
You would think the true whole is the Packers don't have a true championship caliber team from soup to nuts. Yet, some things are bigger than others.
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@Henry posted:You also don't seem to get this isn't "pro-Rodgers". It's pro-fire the fucking FO.
For not kissing Choker Aaron's butt hard enough. What's the difference?
Bald Bob recaps history of Packers ST fuckery...
@Chongo posted:Just parroting what we already know...they fucked up lowBALLing him (Rizzi).
Not sure who is going to be available to be STC, but it can't be any worse than DrayMo.
Packers need a longsnapper too...the shitbag they brought in needs to go back to the CFL.
Long rant before I have to work about 10 hours today on a work assignment.
They brought in Wirtel (the new longsnapper) because apparently he is the "fastest" longsnapper that the NFL has ever timed. I think he was also in training camp with Bojorquez before so he had a history with him as the holder.
https://www.si.com/nfl/packers...r-has-need-for-speed
The problem is the he is undersized as a snapper. Hunter Bradley was more than adequate for years and was 30 pounds bigger. I think the Niners saw that he could be exploited on bull rushes and went after him. However, obviously, every long-snapper is vulnerable to that kind of bull rush because of the position he's in after snapping the ball. Most teams put a guy 5 yards behind him to clean up stuff like that. Someone else posted earlier than the guys positioned to do that took off early. It's probably a result of the special teams being a clusterf@#k all year that they probably emphasized to them (I think Burks and another guy) to get out of the backfield fast and get downfield to help prevent a long return.
The thing that bothers me the most about the special teams is the way MLF approached it based on his comments to Aikman before the game. When you sit down with Aikman and Buck and tell them you "just hope that special teams downs doesn't end up getting you beat" what kind of message is that. WTAF?
The proper approach would be to say that "we know it's been a problem for us in earlier games. We really focused during the bye week, like we did after we had some problems earlier int the year, on working hard on that part of the game to make sure we maximized our chances for success. I'm confident we've tightened that part of the game up and we are excited about making some positive plays there."
He's the fricking head coach and he's sitting down 2 days before the game and saying that he just hopes they don't screw up? If I ran a business and I'd known for months that a crucial part of the business was performing poorly, I'd have made sure that it was improved - either by getting better personnel to run it or upgrading the equipment. I think a good analogy would that you run a business with two different manufacturer plants on different sides of the building. 95% of the business expenditures happen at those two sides of the building and you have some of the best people you've ever had running them and the personnel are exceptional. So, now you just need some guys to operate the forklifts to take the parts made on one side of the building to the other to complete the job. It's simpler than any other part of your business and every other similar business has people that know how to operate the forklifts. Other than a couple of guys (the kicker, punter, and snapper), it's basically filled by guys that don't make lot of money but are trying to impress in that part of the business so they can get promoted somewhere else. Except the foreman of your forklift division is incompetent and has no idea what they are doing or comes back after lunch breaks drunk. MLF just sort of figured that it's only 5% of the game and what really could go wrong enough to cause us to lose the game?
In the end, the Packers have had 5 coaches in the last 30 years (really 4 if you don't count Rhodes). Sherman got overpromoted because of circumstances.
The other three were Holmgren, McCarthy, and MLF. If they had competent special teams in 2014, McCarthy might still be here (no way they fire a guy who takes you to the Super Bowl only 2-3 years earlier). I think the clock is now ticking on MLF, and if and when he gets fired in 2-3 years, it will because he also failed to make sure special teams were good.
In contrast, Holmgren got hired away for bigger money and got to another Super Bowl with a journeyman QB. He probably wins that Seahawks-Steelers Super Bowl if it's officiated well. He had the best special teams coach in the NFL (Cromwell) and they won a Super Bowl and several playoffs games because of special teams more than anything else.
@Chongo posted:Bald Bob recaps history of Packers ST fuckery...
This part of that article is like something you'd expect to see in The Onion. Drayton got the job after being the assistant to the guy they fired, who was the assistant to the previous guy they fired, who got the job from the guy who was fired after one of the biggest special teams meltdowns in playoff history.
Drayton was promoted from within, having served as an assistant to both Mennenga and Zook (who worked under previous head coach Mike McCarthy). Zook got the job the same way, stepping in after Slocum was fired following the botched onside kick recovery in the 2014 NFC Championship Game.
@michiganjoe posted:ST certainly was a contributory factor in the loss, but need to get more production from your MVP QB (and offense) than ten points in the biggest game of the year. Rodgers give you even a "C" game and the team wins.
ST gives you even an F instead of FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF and the team wins.
@MichiganPacker posted:This part of that article is like something you'd expect to see in The Onion. Drayton got the job after being the assistant to the guy they fired, who was the assistant to the previous guy they fired, who got the job from the guy who was fired after one of the biggest special teams meltdowns in playoff history.
Drayton was promoted from within, having served as an assistant to both Mennenga and Zook (who worked under previous head coach Mike McCarthy). Zook got the job the same way, stepping in after Slocum was fired following the botched onside kick recovery in the 2014 NFC Championship Game.
MLF gets full blame for this. If Murphy is being cheap find the best cheap ST coach you can find, Matt. I would be blaming Murphy for this if MLF had at least ventured out of his comfort zone to find a promising young ST assistant coach at a more successful ST perogram.
Would love (or more likely hate) to see the Lazard thing in all-22 form to see if it's as bad as it looks with the ball already in the air. But yeah, seems like he totally blew that play, especially if Allen was his first read. Maybe he was just as discombobulated as the rest of us after that blocked punt nightmare. But he wasn't lighting it up before that... and he makes all the cash to be the guy to right the ship in that situation by moving the chains and bleeding out a long scoring drive and he didn't.
Maybe old man QBs just don't work in the froooozen tundra.
His GM move of getting Cobb in the end didn't really pay big dividends. You gotta wonder if you could have signed OBJ mid-season with that Cobb cash. Or maybe they wouldn't have anyway because let's face it, the FO are feckless cheapskates.
The receivers did suck in this game. And they mostly suck in general. But the situation was such that he needed to give the sucky players more chances than he did.
No MVS was a big problem, because in that pile of suck he at least provides the ability to stretch the field. Just a good chance he'll drop it. But still, run him deep a few times a game and generally it will pay off one way or the other.
If we're playing the blame game for me it's:
1) Special-Ed Teams
2) TEs, the fumble by the aged one, and that drop by Deguoraoaraia
3a) Aaron Jones's dumbshit cut infield towards the end of the half.
3b) Rodgers
4) Wideouts
Personally, I vote keep Rodgers and get some skill players with actual speed. And not just MVS straight line speed.
As for Aaron's trade value... if you can get a Stafford-like haul... at this point you may as well do it. But wasn't the whole thing that Rodgers comes back this past season, and if he wants out, we let him walk? Is it realistic to get all the picks we're fantasizing about considering that Stafford has a lot more career in front of him?
@pkr_north posted:I get it. The thing then comes down to you as a QB trusting the system and not becoming the hero in your own story narrative...you trust the MLF calls, you trust your guys, he just doesn't do that in ANY of the last 5 playoff games. he zero's in on 17; and in this game decided to include 33 in his circle - you cannot do that against really good pressuring defenses, it is a TEAM effort, I just think that AR thinks he is the smartest guy in the room and that is the downfall of him.
I don't know that this has anything to do with being smartest guy in the room.
I think that reality is he doesn't handle pressure well. And I don't simply mean "the niners were able to get pressure with 4". That's part of it of course, and no NFL QB loves dealing with that kind of pressure.
I think it's much more that when adversity arises, when his "legacy" is at stake, when things are not easy for him - like they almost always are - he tightens up, he puts blinders on, and he decides that will only focus on one guy or two. He portrays himself as a cool cat under pressure, but over and over he's shown that when the pressure is on, he gets tunnel vision and limits his options.
Maybe there's a bit of the "well if you think you're gonna beat me by taking away this thing, I'm gonna prove you wrong and beat you doing that thing anyway" as well.
You want your star players to have an ego. That's often part of making them great. I think AR has a massive ego, but it is an amazingly fragile ego that can be shattered at the first sign of adversity, which shows itself by blocking out everyone he doesn't have 100% trust will help him look good.
@4 Favre posted:Would love (or more likely hate) to see the Lazard thing in all-22 form to see if it's as bad as it looks with the ball already in the air. But yeah, seems like he totally blew that play, especially if Allen was his first read.
Oh, it's bad. You know it's bad when Rodgers admits to it in the postgame. And yes, Allen was the first read.
I’m less than impressed with MLF and his coaching ability in the playoffs and that goes above and beyond what happened with the STs.
I’d like to know what happened with Keke and also who decided to start Turner instead of Nijman at LT at the last minute. You could make a case the OL was as bad as the special teams. Get Turner to play his natural RT position and let Nijman play LT. He was good enough to play 8 games but not in this one?
This game was a failure across the board including Rodgers and the offense and the STs. The defense played well all the way up until the last drive when they forgot how to cover and tackle. They also got lucky earlier in the game when Kittle dropped what would have been a long reception resulting in a score.
The clock is certainly ticking on MLF
On the other end, whatever they are paying Shahahan to coach the Niners it’s not enough. He came up with yet another fantastic gameplan and made MLF look like a D2 college coach. And I don’t want to hear about Bak not playing or Dillon getting hurt. You think Warner and Bosa and Deebo were 100%? Jimmy G? They all rose to the occasion.
Someone said it but this team is mentally weak when the real bullets start flying in games that matter. Some of that goes back to coaching, but the players need to execute. It’s shocking just how inept and ineffective some of these guys played and Rodgers body language was awful. It wasn’t quite Brett Favre in the 2007 NFCCG, but it wasn’t that far off either.
@MichiganPacker posted:The thing that bothers me the most about the special teams is the way MLF approached it based on his comments to Aikman before the game. When you sit down with Aikman and Buck and tell them you "just hope that special teams downs doesn't end up getting you beat" what kind of message is that. WTAF?
The proper approach would be to say that "we know it's been a problem for us in earlier games. We really focused during the bye week, like we did after we had some problems earlier int the year, on working hard on that part of the game to make sure we maximized our chances for success. I'm confident we've tightened that part of the game up and we are excited about making some positive plays there."
I agree it's a horrible statement from a HC. I'm still curious as to who has control over what exactly.
I fucking hate this FO structure. Clear as mud.
@4 Favre posted:Personally, I vote keep Rodgers and get some skill players with actual speed. And not just MVS straight line speed.
As for Aaron's trade value... if you can get a Stafford-like haul... at this point you may as well do it. But wasn't the whole thing that Rodgers comes back this past season, and if he wants out, we let him walk? Is it realistic to get all the picks we're fantasizing about considering that Stafford has a lot more career in front of him?
Keeping Rodgers AND adding players is financially impossible. The cap situation is terrible. 12's time in GB is seemingly done. He either retires, which would be a complete disaster for GB, or he gets traded.
I think 12's trade value is inflated by Packer fans. Yes, he's likely going to be the back-to-back MVP but he is also pushing 40. How much do you give up for an aging player that has a history of not performing in the playoffs? I don't know the answer to that but this nonsense of multiple high draft picks coupled with multiple players is a pipe dream.
Every angle I look at this coming off season leads me to one conclusion. Rodgers is done in GB and it's probably best for both sides. Get the most you can for 12 if he decides to keep playing, try to tag/trade Adams, cut the living hell out of the high-priced veterans and use the cap space to start extending your core young guys like Alexander, Gary and Jenkins. Use the draft to build a stout defense and bolster both lines. Let Love play a full season to get a true indicator of what he brings to the table and go from there.
The thing that bothers me the most about the special teams is the way MLF approached it based on his comments to Aikman before the game. When you sit down with Aikman and Buck and tell them you "just hope that special teams downs doesn't end up getting you beat" what kind of message is that. WTAF?
Does anyone know the source of where this was reported? That is pretty damning and sure makes MLF look like a fool.
@13X posted:The thing that bothers me the most about the special teams is the way MLF approached it based on his comments to Aikman before the game. When you sit down with Aikman and Buck and tell them you "just hope that special teams downs doesn't end up getting you beat" what kind of message is that. WTAF?
Does anyone know the source of where this was reported? That is pretty damning and sure makes MLF look like a fool.
Actually the quote about hoping STs not losing the game goes back to what Kyle Shanahan told Aikman before SF's playoff game with Dallas.
SF had shitty STs play all season, finishing 26th in the rankings and Shanahan told Aikman “My number one goal is to not lose on special teams.”
https://www.foxsports.com/arti...pecial-teams-mishaps
And then SF's STs unit played poorly in that game, including giving up a 4th down pass for a 1st to the punter.
Aikman referenced the Shanahan quote in the game against the Pack, because he said even though the 49ers had terrible STs, Shanahan believed the 49ers could still exploit the Pack's other-worldly pathetic STs.
Yes, the GB STs were that bad.
and when the Packers lose, I just can not tolerate ANY sports shows……ALL the talking heads, ALL the BS coming out of all their mouths is to much to deal with…..so, no sports for me. Damn. Oh wait there’s always golf and tennis. 
This just feels like deja vu especially after looking at these threads.
I think we will find out soon enough just what his real value is because I see zero chance of him returning. Only scenario that works is he takes a 50% pay cut to allow GB to keep some players but that will never happen and he publicly stated he wants no part of a rebuild.
Realistically, to even get back to even the Packers would need to release Z, Preston, Amos and Crosby. Add Lowry to the list and now they have 5M available.
You trade Rodgers to Denver and get back Jeudy, Fant, and Shelby Harris and they have about 12M left in cap space to sign draft picks. Maybe release Cobb and now that number increases to 18M which may allow you to keep a Davante or Jaire.
@SteveLuke posted:Actually the quote about hoping STs not losing the game goes back to what Kyle Shanahan told Aikman before SF's playoff game with Dallas.
SF had shitty STs play all season, finishing 26th in the rankings and Shanahan told Aikman “My number one goal is to not lose on special teams.”
https://www.foxsports.com/arti...pecial-teams-mishaps
And then SF's STs unit played poorly in that game, including giving up a 4th down pass for a 1st to the punter.
Aikman referenced the Shanahan quote in the game against the Pack, because he said even though the 49ers had terrible STs, Shanahan believed the 49ers could still exploit the Pack's other-worldly pathetic STs.
Yes, the GB STs were that bad.
So was it actually Shanahan that made that comment about his Special Teams and not MLF about the GB Special Teams?
@13X posted:The thing that bothers me the most about the special teams is the way MLF approached it based on his comments to Aikman before the game. When you sit down with Aikman and Buck and tell them you "just hope that special teams downs doesn't end up getting you beat" what kind of message is that. WTAF?
Does anyone know the source of where this was reported? That is pretty damning and sure makes MLF look like a fool.
I thought I heard it in the broadcast.
@13X posted:So was it actually Shanahan that made that comment about his Special Teams and not MLF about the GB Special Teams?
Shanahan said that and Aikman said MLF told him that.
@MichiganPacker posted:Shanahan said that and Aikman said MLF told him that.
https://twitter.com/JoshNorris.../1485098193306234882
Josh Norris
@JoshNorris
Matt LaFleur told Troy and Joe in TV meetings "Well I just hope our special teams doesn't screw it up" !!!
Some interesting comments in The Athletic this AM made a pretty strong case that AR can come back and that a rebuild isn't necessary. Also one interesting comment about his commitment.
“Yes, they have to do some work with their cap, but that is easy,” a longtime team cap manager said. “Bad personnel decisions, not the cap, are the impediment to roster building. The idea that they would be in rebuilding mode is a joke to me. They can franchise Davante Adams, so they know that he won’t be going anywhere. They don’t need to use the tag on Rodgers or anybody else.”
I think the bigger question is - Are you ever going to be in as good of a position to win it all as the last two years? If you couldn't win then, what changes such that they aren't in the exact same spot again?
“Rodgers wants to talk about [stuff] and [other stuff] while Brady talks about all ball,” a veteran coach said. “Rodgers loves the standing invite on the A.J. Hawk show (Pat McAfee Show) and he wants to talk about [even more stuff\ and every other thing that doesn’t do anything but splinter and unfocus the group. To me, Rodgers doesn’t show the focus that it really takes to win the multiple championships.”
And then there's this, which I discount a bit as old school tough guy BS, but...