@ammo posted:Do you really expect that to happen with Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes, Joe burrow, Justin Hebert and maybe even Derrick Carr as QBs in the AFC? And if Hackett doesn't win his leash gets cut.
Who gives a shit. He's Denver's problem.
@ammo posted:As I asked before, we know Rodgers loves Hackett, but do we really know if Hackett loves or wants Rodgers? Having Rodgers may not be what's best for his long term interests in Denver.
Having Rodgers would be in the short-term (1-2 year) interests of any team that doesn't have the QB position solved without him (that's true for Denver for Green Bay). With Rodgers, both are Super Bowl contenders. Without him, they'll probably max out at 8 or 9 wins.
Having the extra haul of draft picks is much better for the long-term interests of any team (3-4 years from now). If Rodgers were 29 years old, it's different, but he'll be 39 next year. The list of QBs effective at that age or older that have maintained success is not very long. Brady has warped our thinking on that, and Favre was good for the Vikings at age 40. No matter where he goes, Rodgers is probably not going to be playing QB in 2024 as a 41 year old.
LET'S JUST SAY FOR SAKE OF ARGUMENT ... Rodgers wanted out.
— Peter Bukowski (@Peter_Bukowski) January 28, 2022
Denver gives up
Jerry Jeudy, 3 1sts (including No. 9 this year) for Rodgers
Then the Raiders give up
No. 22 + Trevon Moehrig for Adams
How do you feel about that?
17 is going where 12 goes, he would kibosh that deal
Funny how they are somehow trying to tie this to his future with the Packers. Never mind he still has the place in Malibu that he bought when he was with Danica.
DEN was #3 ranked scoring D in 21? That was facing KC, LAC and LV twice each and CIN. Gave up 18.9pts/game. Good bunch of young WRs. Don't know their OL situation but they look like they're in good position.
Denver's scoring D is inflated. The team played at such a slow pace, with an offense that focused on holding the ball but not necessarily scoring (8th in TOP yet 23rd in scoring offense with very few turnovers - very unusual). Their offense was predicated on not turning it over and limiting opponent possessions. Why? Fangio is old school and thought they could win a bunch of games 17-13. So it made his scoring defense look really good but it didn't reflect the reality of what was happening on the field. The reality? Denver had the 28th third down conversion defense. They were 22nd in forced turnovers. Those two metrics are more indicative of a great defense, ie: getting off the field.
It's a solid defense, probably 12th-15th in the NFL. Their o-line is probably middle of the road - 15th to 20th. Bolles is good but no one else really is. Those 4 guys are average, at best. They also lack depth. Javonte Williams is a stud at RB though and the backup is sold too (name escapes me). And the WRs and TEs? It's a toss up. Tim Patrick is the most consistent but he's a lot like Lazard in that he has size and toughness but lacks top shelf athleticism. Sutton is really good but lacks focus if he's not getting the ball. Jerry Jeudy has struggled. Remember when Davante ripped on young WRs for not practicing routes and instead working on Tik Tok videos showing off their footwork? That's Jeudy. KJ Hamler is another highly drafted WR who can't stay healthy and struggles with drops. And Noah Fant is nothing special. Tons of athleticism but it's yet to translate to the field. In general, Broncos WRs and TEs are quite overrated. Bridgewater is nothing special but if these WR/TEs were special, they should have helped him. They didn't. Their "potential" is really about draft position, where they have 2 first rounders and 2 second rounders.
Oh, and the Broncos special teams are a train wreck. I wonder if Rodgers is concerned about that.
Yes Gordon was the guy last year but he's a free agent. Just looked it up - Mike Boone. He'll be the backup to Wiliams in 2022. He's a solid #2.
As much as I don't want to see him go to the Broncos since I live here, I do think it makes the most sense in a trade. Rodgers' short list is probably Denver and Pittsburgh. That #9 pick looks a whole lot better than Pittsburgh's 20th pick, as any pick next year or the year after is going to be 25ish. Denver is also desperate for a real QB. It's been a 6 year rotating door of incompetent QB play that would make the Bears jealous. That has to jack the price up more than most teams and have drat capital - 5 picks in the top 100.
@packerboi posted:LET'S JUST SAY FOR SAKE OF ARGUMENT ... Rodgers wanted out.
— Peter Bukowski (@Peter_Bukowski) January 28, 2022
Denver gives up
Jerry Jeudy, 3 1sts (including No. 9 this year) for Rodgers
Then the Raiders give up
No. 22 + Trevon Moehrig for Adams
How do you feel about that?
@Goldie posted:#12 sold his California mansion in November.
Did you attend the closing?😅
@CUPackFan posted:Denver's scoring D is inflated. The team played at such a slow pace, with an offense that focused on holding the ball but not necessarily scoring (8th in TOP yet 23rd in scoring offense with very few turnovers - very unusual). Their offense was predicated on not turning it over and limiting opponent possessions. Why? Fangio is old school and thought they could win a bunch of games 17-13. So it made his scoring defense look really good but it didn't reflect the reality of what was happening on the field. The reality? Denver had the 28th third down conversion defense. They were 22nd in forced turnovers. Those two metrics are more indicative of a great defense, ie: getting off the field.
It's a solid defense, probably 12th-15th in the NFL. Their o-line is probably middle of the road - 15th to 20th. Bolles is good but no one else really is. Those 4 guys are average, at best. They also lack depth. Javonte Williams is a stud at RB though and the backup is sold too (name escapes me). And the WRs and TEs? It's a toss up. Tim Patrick is the most consistent but he's a lot like Lazard in that he has size and toughness but lacks top shelf athleticism. Sutton is really good but lacks focus if he's not getting the ball. Jerry Jeudy has struggled. Remember when Davante ripped on young WRs for not practicing routes and instead working on Tik Tok videos showing off their footwork? That's Jeudy. KJ Hamler is another highly drafted WR who can't stay healthy and struggles with drops. And Noah Fant is nothing special. Tons of athleticism but it's yet to translate to the field. In general, Broncos WRs and TEs are quite overrated. Bridgewater is nothing special but if these WR/TEs were special, they should have helped him. They didn't. Their "potential" is really about draft position, where they have 2 first rounders and 2 second rounders.
Oh, and the Broncos special teams are a train wreck. I wonder if Rodgers is concerned about that.
The main flaw in that defensive strategy then is that they didn't have the QB to guide them to more than 18.9 points. AR could probably get then more than 19pts. At least in weeks 01-18.
Thanks for the breakdown though. Very good reading.
@packerboi posted:LET'S JUST SAY FOR SAKE OF ARGUMENT ... Rodgers wanted out.
— Peter Bukowski (@Peter_Bukowski) January 28, 2022
Denver gives up
Jerry Jeudy, 3 1sts (including No. 9 this year) for Rodgers
Then the Raiders give up
No. 22 + Trevon Moehrig for Adams
How do you feel about that?
If we get a haul from Denver, send some of that plus Love to Seattle for Wilson
Retain this year's 9th pick to draft a stud wr or te. Then if you keep Adams you're still a SB contender and you have another WR as well as a little more mobile qb with better leadership skills
@ammo posted:Do you really expect that to happen with Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes, Joe burrow, Justin Hebert and maybe even Derrick Carr as QBs in the AFC? And if Hackett doesn't win his leash gets cut.
If it was just about the QB, Rodgers would have 3 or 4 more rings.
And no thanks on Jeudy. Story on him in Denver is he focuses too hard on beating a DB that he’s slow to actually get open. You see it with pass rushers too, hand fighting too much and not actually doing anything productive. Maybe a change of scenery will help but his value is closer to a third rounder being two years into his rookie deal without a whole lot of production.
Most of our speculation about an ARod trade to Denver has been on getting offensive players, specifically WRs, as part of the deal.
What if it went a different route?
They have anybody on DL that's any good? LBs or DBs?
I think getting Patrick Surtain Jr would better than any of their WRs. Extend Jaire and that’s the best CB group in the NFL w/Stokes.
They have a few intriguing young players in their front 7 but nothing guaranteed. Dremont Jones, Malik Reed, and Baron Browning are probably the most talented. First two are in the last year of their rookie deals though and Browning really only flashed as a rookie, hardly a guaranteed starter. Surtain is really the only projected pro bowler on this team who’s on a rookie deal (Williams too but we don’t need a RB).
@packerboi posted:LET'S JUST SAY FOR SAKE OF ARGUMENT ... Rodgers wanted out.
— Peter Bukowski (@Peter_Bukowski) January 28, 2022
Denver gives up
Jerry Jeudy, 3 1sts (including No. 9 this year) for Rodgers
Then the Raiders give up
No. 22 + Trevon Moehrig for Adams
How do you feel about that?
Obviously, that would be great, but it wouldn’t shock me if the Packers would end up with less. Some sort of bidding war may make that type of thing possible, but my gut tells me it won’t happen.
I’d probably be happy to get 3 #1s between the trades of Adams and Rodgers combined plus 2 or 3 more picks in 2nd or 3rd round. Even that may be a stretch though it’s possible.
The true worst case scenario, Rodgers retires and they get nothing, and they are unable to franchise tag Adams. In that scenario, a 3rd round comp pick might be all those two end up netting the Pack.
Chubb, alongside Gary, smith and Campbell would be one of the best lb group in the League
I just don’t see Rodgers wanting to go to Denver. Don’t think they’re poised to do shit with or without him and he knows it. The more I think about it, my opinion is GB or retirement.
Ha ha, in this survey dimple boy is the sorest loser……..#12 is second. Lotsa results are very interesting….
@Tavis Smiley posted:I just don’t see Rodgers wanting to go to Denver. Don’t think they’re poised to do shit with or without him and he knows it. The more I think about it, my opinion is GB or retirement.
I changed my mind. I think GB decides they don’t want 12 back. He’s had ample opportunity to win another championship and the cap space letting him and Adams leave is too big of a temptation to give up, especially if Rodgers is only there for 2 or whatever years. He’s gone to Cleveland.
Unless he isn’t. I’m done .
@Goldie posted:Ha ha, in this survey dimple boy is the sorest loser……..#12 is second. Lotsa results are very interesting….
Vickling fans 18th. Who ever took that poll obviously never read Rube Shat.
I was scared to death of losing Rodgers last year but now I'm not so sure. If he only has a year or two left in the tank (which obviously no one knows how long he will perform at a high level for) and we could potentially get a decent hall for him, it might be best for the team if he leaves-especially considering that it's not likely things will be all teed up for them again this year with the number one seed and a less talented roster is likely. It's a tough call. I f he can win a SB it's obviously worth it but it just doesn't feel like that is in the cards.
@13X posted:I was scared to death of losing Rodgers last year but now I'm not so sure. If he only has a year or two left in the tank (which obviously no one knows how long he will perform at a high level for) and we could potentially get a decent hall for him, it might be best for the team if he leaves-especially considering that it's not likely things will be all teed up for them again this year with the number one seed and a less talented roster is likely. It's a tough call. I f he can win a SB it's obviously worth it but it just doesn't feel like that is in the cards.
They are going to lose some talent, but they won't know what the most important talent outside of Rodgers will look like until probably next December.
Adams is great, but they won games without him. At worst, they'll have Clark, Alexander, Gary, and Stokes back on defense. Jones and Dillon on offense. The WRs/TEs without Adams really won't be any worse than they were this year and they were able to win games with them as long as the pass rush didn't overwhelm them.
As poorly as Rodgers played last week, if Bakh and E. Jenkins are lining up at LT and LG would this game have been close? If Bakh plays last year against the Bucs is that game even close?
If Rodgers comes back and those two guys are close to 100% come playoff time, they are the favorite in the NFC. The best pass blocking LT in the league and a top 3 guard make a huge difference. Those guys can handle almost everyone in front of them one on one, so the other 3 guys (Myers, Runyan, Nijman, Newman) can basically be schemed to handle two guys.
If Bakh never really comes back and E. Jenkins isn't ready until 2023, they need to move Rodgers for draft capital and start the rebuild.
@13X posted:I was scared to death of losing Rodgers last year but now I'm not so sure. If he only has a year or two left in the tank (which obviously no one knows how long he will perform at a high level for) and we could potentially get a decent hall for him, it might be best for the team if he leaves-especially considering that it's not likely things will be all teed up for them again this year with the number one seed and a less talented roster is likely. It's a tough call. I f he can win a SB it's obviously worth it but it just doesn't feel like that is in the cards.
The issue still comes down to having a franchise QB, not even a HoF one. Love hasn't shown squat yet. Are you ready to instantly go back to the 70s/80s or do you want to ride the wave a few more years?
Riding the wave: A couple more years of contending and time for Love to develop. A crap cap year is coming, but there's also a couple more shots at a Lombardi.
Blow it up: Instant tank. If Love isn't the perceived answer, they're instantly cellar dwellers and in the running for the top pick. Load up on pass rushers, maybe a Left Tackle, corners and wideouts. 2023 get your QB and (hopefully) work on your defensive line. Extend Amos and Alexander. Rodgers, Adams, Smith, Smith, etc. all gone. Hope to be competitive again in 2024.
The Packers also have built-in contract "outs" on guys like Aaron Jones and Adrian Amos after next season. That leads me to believe they have a plan for at least one more run in 2022.
This is a subtopic but the narrative that the O is just fine without 17 is a bit of a red herring. There is a difference between scheming to compensate for not having a WR01 for 3-4 games vs doing it for a season. And then there is the issue of facing elite defenses in the post season. This doesn't even get into the fact that having running game success is a lot easier with AR behind center.