Agreed it was a total failure on ST and No Mo, and on Mayo for keeping him in that position after multiple complete failures during the season. And you're correct, the points not scored by ST and the points given up by ST were huge factors in the loss. However, it was very disappointing that we couldn't score more than 13 points.
A few first downs after the defense held the Niners would have gone a long way to prevent the ST screwup TD
Well, I'm just glad that turd is gone, and hopefully MLF learned a lesson from this. It seems he has, at least with the choice of ST coordinator. I think Bisaccia was a major win.
@Henry posted:I guess you missed the game. I'll sum it up for you. ST lost the game.
Vernon Scott is so awesome he was passed up by another UDFA who, wait for it, played in the games.
Ah, so Vernon Scott, all by himself, was preventing the FO from signing the 3 or 4 players who fucked up on special teams in the playoff game? WOW, he must have a hell of a lot of potential to take up 4 roster spots.
Pat O'Donnell was added to Packers based on Bisaccia's recommendation.
He's really excited about having him.
Holy shit....I have some hope for our ST unit now
Laast time ( 1959 ) Green Bay hired an Italian things worked out pretty good.
We have two really good position coaches in the hopper right now with potential to move up. Biscotti and Jerry Gray.
Loved his definition of special teams. Not offense, not defense but wefense.
"We don't get three downs, we get one play to get it right."
He does a pretty good press conference. Then again I can't say I've ever watched a Drayton or a Zook or a Slocum conference...
I just assume they said things like "No need more than 10 for block field goal. Only have 10 finger. How have more?" and "Bostick big strong. Bostick go get ball. Sometimes Bostick no get ball. What can do?"
I am hoping he helps MLF round out his game as a head coach, gets in his ear about some of the goofy decisions he made in the Niner Game (OL lineup, putting such a KEY offensive player as our game-closing RB on special teams, etc.)
@Thunderbird posted:so this guy
would have been an upgrade?
LOL, yes.
Drayton. just like Mannenga, Zook and Slocum before him, was a poor STs Coordinator and deserved his firing.
However, the abject failures of the ST's units (especially but not only the kick coverage and return units) over the tenures of 4 different coordinators, 2 head coaches, and 2 GMs make it clear that the problems with Special Teams in Green Bay during the past 15 years are an organizational failure rather than just the failure of a particular coach.
There was much optimism this offseason that by finally ponying up for a respected ST Coordinator in Bisaccia that maybe, finally the Packers had turned a corner, alas that does not YET appear to be the case.
Matt LaFleur frustrated with Packers' special teams, especially in preseason finale at Kansas City
It’s not what Bisaccia is coaching, LaFleur is quick to point out, but an attitude that must be shifted before kickoff against the Minnesota Vikings.
"The thing that I would like to see," LaFleur said, "is just some of the things that we do in practice, you’d like to see that carry over into the game. And not just these made-up techniques that we don't necessarily, that we don’t coach and we don't see in practice. So that I think that's the most frustrating thing is when you see that; or a lack of effort, the things that you can control.
“Because, you know, there's some things that are out of your control, but the lack of effort, and it wasn't everybody, but there were a couple of guys that it was glaring on tape. It's like ‘you can not put this on film.’ Not only for the Green Bay Packers, but for the entire league. Everybody's watching this tape.”
How is it possible, with young testosterone-filled football players on the precipice of possibly getting cut and after a playoff loss and 2021 season that featured historically bad STs play, that Packers' ST's players are still displaying a lack of effort even under Bisaccia?
The organization's "attitude" towards STs has reflected neglect bordering on malpractice for quite some time, and thus I wholeheartedly agree with MLF that a shift in attitude (manifesting in better effort) is critical (and long past due).
The clearest way for the Front Office to signal that shift is by emphasizing STs contributions in deciding who stays and who goes on the final roster.
To that end, I hope the Front Office looks outside the organization for players who have a proven track record of positive STs play during the cutdowns next week.
Would be awesome if Gute could find the equivalent of a Campbell or Douglas for the STs unit.
Hell, I'd settle for a Travis Jervey or Jarret Bush.
It's partially a side effect of crappy drafting, especially at linebacker and tight end, who often are core players on those units. Note the one fast linebacker they drafted, Burks, became a good special teams player and was a priority signing by the 49ers in free agency.
2006 Abdul Hodge (slow AF), AJ Hawk (slow AF, and a starter)
2007 Korey Hall (FB/TE, letters can be used for Complete Fucking Bust), Desmond Bishop (slow, eventual D starter)
2009 Clay Matthews (D Starter), Brad Jones (he was decent on ST from what I remember)
2011 Ryan Taylor, Ricky Elmore, DJ Smith, DJ Williams
2012 Terrell Manning
2013 Sam Barrington, Nate Palmer
2014 DickPlod
2015 Jake Ryan (slow AF), Kennard Backman
2016 Blake Martinez, Kyler Fackrell (solid ST talent in 2016)
2017 Vince Biegel and his foot
2018 Burks (good STer)
2019 Sternberger, Ty Summers (slow AF)
2020 Kamal Martin (slow AF), Deguara (jury's out due to injuries)
2021 McDuffie (also slow)
The coordinator may not have been good, but the drafting sure didn't help get many guys who could play on STs worth a damn.
@SteveLuke posted:Would be awesome if Gute could find the equivalent of a Campbell or Douglas for the STs unit.
I think they got that guy in Leavitt. He's just got to return from injury first.
Wasn't Korey Hall a starter on the SB45 team? I distinctly recall him starting the SB ahead of Kuuuuuuuuuuuhn.
Special Teams Ace Justin Bethel released by the Pats.
Here's the Dirty Dozen...
12 guys who played significant ST snaps in 2021, who are no longer on the team
Malik Taylor
EQ
Dominique Dafney
Ben Braden
Lucas Patrick
Kinglsey Keke
Tyler Lancaster
Oren Burks
Ty Summers
Isaac Yiadom
Henry Black
Corey Bojorquez
In the past, the Packers preferred to have a guy who was closer to competent on offense/defense as opposed to really good at STs.
This year, they moved ST prowess ahead of offense/defense skills for several of the roster bottom dudes. Part of the thinking is that with the expanded PS rules, you can keep & develop offense/defense players - but they don't take up a spot on the 53.
Then, if somebody busts a chin strap, you can elevate the more competent offense/defense player from the PS. But on Sundays, GB will roll with the better ST guys and hope they don't need them to play much on other units.
Gute basically said as much in his PC this week. They went with some players who almost exclusively excel at ST. We’ll see how it works out.
but the lack of effort, and it wasn't everybody, but there were a couple of guys that it was glaring on tape. It's like ‘you can not put this on film.’
I think it's likely guys who've realized they can't play in this league. Whether it's physical limitations, the training regimen, the complexity requiring focus and study, the anonymity vs big man on campus etc, being a professional football player is a lot harder than being a star on a college team. If you've already reached this conclusion, why got get a knee blasted or your bell rung on a meaningless play on your way out the door?
From the new guy, Rudy Ford
General manager Brian Gutekunst’s renewed emphasis on special teams continued on Wednesday with the signing of safety Rudy Ford. Ford and former Raiders defensive back Keisean Nixon, who was signed in free agency, could be the gunners on the punt team.
“It’s probably one of the toughest positions on the field,” Ford said. “You should definitely write about it more, because at gunner they can fight you the whole time. They can hold you, you’ve got to beat two people, you can be blocked by two guys and one can grab and hold you, you’ve got to try and throw one of them off the other one. It’s a lot of dynamics. Definitely speed and power, you’ve got to use everything. …
Gunners are one area that is still a free-for-all during a game. The crap these guys have to deal with is a called penalty on offense or defense - but on STs, the refs allow it.
Green Bay is currently ranked 30th in Special Teams DVOA rankings, up all the way from 32nd last season.
Crosby is 11 of 14 on FGs, which at 78.6% puts him at 26th in the NFL among qualifying kickers. He has had 1 FG and 1 extra point blocked. His long is 48 yards.
Mason hasn't been able to regularly kick the ball deep on kickoffs for several season and it only gets worse the colder it gets.
Coco the long snapper looks like Gutey's latest failure at the position.
O'Donnell, like Crosby, is 26th in net punting average among qualifying punters. He has the lowest average hang time of any qualifying punter in the NFL.
Packers coverage units are well below average and have suffered as Nixon and Ford have been playing more defensive snaps.
Amari Rodgers, who still leads the NFL in fumbled punts, is gone and Keisan Nixon looks like he may not be a complete disaster as a return man so there's that.
The Special Teams failures in 2021 were not JUST due to Drayton being in over his head, which he was, but were also a product of the GM's roster failures.
Those roster failures continue to plague the Packers in 2022 despite Rich Bisaccia being the highest-paid Special Teams coordinator in the entire NFL.
Rodney:
6) Some fans might not even know he’s on the roster, but Eric Wilson is having a terrific season on special teams. The veteran inside linebacker, who blocked a punt less than two weeks after being signed off the Saints’ practice squad in early October, had a couple of tackles on Sunday. He’s a major reason why kick coverage has been so solid this season despite being tested more than any other unit in the league. Wilson, along with fellow veteran newcomers Rudy Ford, Dallin Leavitt, Keisean Nixon, and Corey Ballentine, has helped turn a major weakness into one of this season’s few positives.
Also, Mason Crosby in near the bottom of the league (again!) in kickoff returns. The dude is knocking on 40 and simply can't kick off like he used to. Now that weather is turning, that only gets worse.
In 2023, regardless of how good buddies he is with 12, the Packers really have to consider moving on from him OR finding a much younger leg to kick off. These kickoffs are barely making it past the 10 yard line.
@packerboi posted:Also, Mason Crosby in near the bottom of the league (again!) in kickoff returns. The dude is knocking on 40 and simply can't kick off like he used to. Now that weather is turning, that only gets worse.
In 2023, regardless of how good buddies he is with 12, the Packers really have to consider moving on from him OR finding a much younger leg to kick off. These kickoffs are barely making it past the 10 yard line.
Hope he does the right thing and hangs it up after this year.
always get a kick out of people who think they know the right thing for someone else to do
@Tdog posted:always get a kick out of people who think they know the right thing for someone else to do
What you ought to do is a phrase we hear all the time. Sometimes they are right. Sometimes maybe not. 
RIP Terry Glenn
always get a kick out of people who call me pal
Packers could have upgraded their return game at any time by rummaging through the roster scrap heap. Reason they didn't: their investment in Amari Rodgers and it was a significant miscalculation from both the GM and the coaching staff.
MLF's tendency to try and be "one of the guys"/friends with his team vs the requirement to be a Head coach to his players and his assistant coaches is a concern.
I am not saying he needs to be a hard ass with his players 24/7, but as a HC, you need to do what's best for the team....not what's easiest for you.
@michiganjoe posted:Packers could have upgraded their return game at any time by rummaging through the roster scrap heap. Reason they didn't: their investment in Amari Rodgers and it was a significant miscalculation from both the GM and the coaching staff.
They were stupid. It was clear even to laymen like us that the guy was not an NFL returner. No burst, no ball security. It took them too long to move on!