As a laptop GM, hell yeah I'd trade one of our #1 (and probably another high pick) for him
El-Ka-Bong posted:As a laptop GM, hell yeah I'd trade one of our #1 (and probably another high pick) for him
Same here, he would be a top 3 draft pick in any given year. I suggested trading CMIII instead of giving up another pick because I think he's in decline and has chronic injury issues.....plus unloading his salary would help fit Mack in within the cap.
Ghost of Lambeau posted:Tavis Smiley posted:I get all of the above. The one thing I never understood is why you wouldn’t trade a high draft pick for a player who has proved they can already perform at an elite level in NFL? In my “who really gives a ****” opinion, it would seem the better odds to trade even a high #1 for Mack if you were convinced you could sign him long term and were convinced he was on-board from a motivational perspective. I know finances obviously come into play, but I’m talking about from a talent perspective. I’d be more apt to want the “known” vs the “unknown”. To think you can get a player of Mack’s ability in the draft late 1st round is sure a possibility, but I’d say chances aren’t great.
Then again, GB probabaly already has decided to package one their 1st rounders with another draft pick and a player to move into the Top 5 in next year’s draft so what the **** do I know?
The "if you were convinced you could sign him" remark I think is the key. I would not give the farm if he were a one year rental. But otherwise, yeah, we don't know what exactly they are thinking. It is clear though that Gute is willing to get a free agent under the right circumstances. If Mack wants 28 mill/year, and AR wants 31 mill/year, that is a lot to cram under the cap.
You are exactly right. Draft picks for the most part are the lifeblood of your team and it you trade away a 1st rounder for a guy who may not even sign long term with you I say you would be foolish to do it.
I also agree on the cap. There is only so much room for that big salary players under the cap and if you had AR and Mack say for 50 million a year between them that is a huge chunk.
They're paying AR, Clay, Cobb and Crosby around $50 million this season.
Tavis Smiley posted:The one thing I never understood is why you wouldn’t trade a high draft pick for a player who has proved they can already perform at an elite level in NFL?
Because there is no mystery in it. How boring. Mack is going to get us 15 sacks every year and he is going to be stout against the run. Big deal.
Take a guy like Kyler Fackrell. That international man of mystery is also going to get 15 sacks. But we don't know how many years that will take him. Stout against the run? Maybe...on occasion. Who knows? Now, tell me that's not exciting.
As others have stated, Mack would have to have agreed to a reasonable salary before the trade. Draft picks are a crapshoot, and great pass rushers are almost as valuable as QB and LT. I think right behind them. One of our first round picks and another draft pick would be ok by me. But right now Mack sounds grumpy about his salary and might not be a good fit in the locker room anyway because of that holdout attitude. I don’t have a good feel about Gutekunsts tendencies on that but I know that he is not a TT clone.
Fedya posted:Henry posted:Brett Hundley has trade value. Package him up with Marvin Martini, trade to Cleveland for Joe Thomas. Joe Thomas and Khalil Mack straight up.
Too bad the Packers no longer have Jeff Janis! to trade.
Oh how the game has changed....everyone insists on route trees nowadays.
Go figure...a kid from the UP can't figure out effin trees.
They would have to play with a lot more Fackrells to afford Rodgers and Mack.
Cobb and CMIII are likely coming off the books after this year and that’s $24MM right there. If they cut Tramon Williams next year they pick up another $5MM in savings.
The Packers can afford to pay Mack and I would be willing to deal a #1 for him. The guy is a top 5 pass rusher in the league. Sure he would cost a lot to sign but he’s the type of guy that could put them over the top.
RochNyFan posted:El-Ka-Bong posted:As a laptop GM, hell yeah I'd trade one of our #1 (and probably another high pick) for him
Same here, he would be a top 3 draft pick in any given year. I suggested trading CMIII instead of giving up another pick because I think he's in decline and has chronic injury issues.....plus unloading his salary would help fit Mack in within the cap.
Isn't this the definition of proposing a trade and providing the reason why it never happens?
In my opinion. Clay is going to play out of his mind in 2018 and then walk away from football forever. Take a year or two off and then land a studio gig because he is incredibly marketable and is a natural in front of a camera.
He'll be in the Packer HOF one day. He's not Lambeau Facade. But he was a great Packer.
Goalline posted:Take a guy like Kyler Fackrell.
Channeling the late Henny Youngman, yes "Take a guy like Kyler Fackrell ... please."
I read that Mack could be a game changer. Not many of those become available often. He would be considered a proven player at his position. And worth the draft picks. It’s not like he would be a Hadel (spelling?) like trade.
Quite often, the teams that win are those that have superstar talent on their rookie contracts (or a bargain contract). Once those guys get to the point where they get paid market rate, there is a lot less money to provide depth and keep other veteran contributors. Mack is outstanding at a cap hit of 6 million in 2017. Not so much at 14 million this year.
The best players on the 2010 Packers Super Bowl champs were Aaron Rodgers, Charles Woodson, Clay Matthews, Greg Jennings, Tramon Williams, Nick Collins, Sam Shields, Chad Clifton, Cullen Jenkins, Sam Shields, Pickett, Josh Sitton, and BJ Raji. Those 13 players were really the core of the success. Rodgers was on his second contract, but it was a huge bargain (6.5 million cap hit). Shields was playing as an UDFA. CM3, Sitton, and Raji were on rookie deals. Jenkins, Pickett, Collins, Tramon, Jennings, and Woodson were making close to market rate.
The key to success in the NFL is winning during the window where a significant portion of your stars are playing on rookie or bargain deals. Rodgers even at 2010 rates was playing at about 40% of what he was worth. The Hawks had their run when Russell Wilson was being paid as a 3rd round pick and the Legion of Boom were on rookie contracts. The Ravens won before they had to shell out 20 million for Joe Flacco. The Eagles just won last year paying Wentz and Foles a combined 11 million. The Patriots win because they basically only pay Brady- everyone else is cast off before they get big money (or as soon as possible when they start to lose it) going back almost 20 years - Richard Seymour, Lawyer Milloy, Randy Moss, Ty Law, Jamie Collins, etc.
You probably aren't going to win paying Khalil Mack 25 million even as good as he is. The only guys worth that money are franchise QBs.
I'd still take a flyer trading a first round pick in the low to mid 20s for Mack knowing you'll probably get a 3rd rounder back in compensation after he leaves. Is the 20th or so pick worth one year of Mack and a 3rd rounder if you think your close? I'd say yes.
heyward posted:They're paying AR, Clay, Cobb and Crosby around $50 million this season.
Crosby doesn't really fit with the other 3. He's making about 4 million. The other 3 are getting 46 million.
Crosby is $5 million. The others are $43 million. Rodgers is almost 1/2 that which is a ****ing steal. I’m not sure what the point is here.
Rodgers will never not be a steal. Regardless of the cost. Everyone else needs to be all in
the guy is amazing!!!!!!!!
really love the one about half way thru , Al Michels on the call against Arizona.....
if they dont get 20 yards its all over, so #12 out of the endzone uncorks a 60 yard strike to Janis what a beauty.
The majority of those plays on that vid are down the sideline. He carves that edge like mofo'n Michelangelo. His footwork in and out of the pocket along with how quick he is to rotate his hips when squareing up to throw would make Fred Astaire and Elvis blush.
Are there any solid pass rushers in the college ranks who could be declaring for the 2019 draft that the Packers can get with one or both picks next year? Before giving the house away for Mack, we should look at who we could get out of college. Mack is a great player and would look great in Green and Gold but if this trade does not materialize, our two 1st Round picks in next years draft will be going to pass rushers and /or OTs. Maybe we even move up the board by trading both of those first round picks to get into the Top 5 if someone we want is there. Another thing is if we do get Mack and sign him long term, I think our number one need then becomes the OT position in next year's draft.
I'm sure that's already been weighed by the front office. The challenge is projecting who those prospects might be 8 months from now. I've read 2019 is supposed to be thick with edge rushers.
DH13 posted:The majority of those plays on that vid are down the sideline. He carves that edge like mofo'n Michelangelo. His footwork in and out of the pocket along with how quick he is to rotate his hips when squareing up to throw would make Fred Astaire and Elvis blush.
The talk of Aaron Rodgers and his hips puts Goldie into the sweats, tone it back a bit 
Since Tim Boyle played well against 4th stringers, They could trade Rodgers for a **** load of draft picks.
Yup, wanna see Boyle against some better competition before anointing him the second coming of Rodgers. I did like the way he stood in there and threw when things got pushed toward him rather than heading for the hills. But if I remember, we all handed out the Superman Second-String Cape to Hundley and a few others way too soon, so this time I'll take a wait-wait-and-see attitude.
Everyone wanting to "wait and see how Boyle does vs starters" better take a seat. He's not ready to go against 1's and there won't really be an opportunity to do that in the PS with Kizer/Hundley getting those snaps and opponents not playing all their starters to begin with. His biggest problem in college was his decision making which is what takes center stage against a starting D. Let him practice and study and maybe next year you'll see him take snaps with the 1's in the third PS game.
GBFanForLife posted:Since Tim Boyle played well against 4th stringers, They could trade Rodgers for a **** load of draft picks.
Or he could compete against two turds in Hundley and Kizer because we know how well Hundley did last year.
DH13 posted:Everyone wanting to "wait and see how Boyle does vs starters" better take a seat. He's not ready to go against 1's and there won't really be an opportunity to do that in the PS with Kizer/Hundley getting those snaps and opponents not playing all their starters to begin with. His biggest problem in college was his decision making which is what takes center stage against a starting D. Let him practice and study and maybe next year you'll see him take snaps with the 1's in the third PS game.
Now that I come to think of it, the concept of Boyle being developed by a HC that can't manage his own staff seems rather pointless. So I'm guessing both Hundley and Kizer stick with Hundley being #2. QB room is great.
Boyle, go elsewhere to develop. Oh wait, that Aaron Rodgers guy is pretty good and likely more effective in coaching players than the siamese OCs.
If Hundley makes the team and Boyle goes elsewhere then I’m done with MM forever.
Fandame posted:Yup, wanna see Boyle against some better competition before anointing him the second coming of Rodgers. I did like the way he stood in there and threw when things got pushed toward him rather than heading for the hills. But if I remember, we all handed out the Superman Second-String Cape to Hundley and a few others way too soon, so this time I'll take a wait-wait-and-see attitude.
I'm so old I can remember when Jerry Tagge was ...wait for this...drafted in the first round.
And some washed up porn star Del Gazo was the second coming once too.
And for WR's...Kenny Payne was a Jerry Rice one preseason in the early 70's as well.
Carry on whippersnappers.
If you really think Boyle is a hidden gem than you don't showcase him anymore in the games. That gives you the best chance to put him on the PS and role with 2 QB's on the roster.
I don't know about everyone else but I definitely don't see him as a hidden gem. He's a raw kid with some impressive traits. I want to see this kid under fire and run through the mill to see if he is a gem. If he is then some other stiff needs to get jettisoned. At least provide the illusion that MM would actually consider someone other than Hundley.
I truly don't know how anyone can think Hundley's performance is meaningful. It's the same **** with this stiff. Ryan Wood gets giddy because he roles out to his left side now too. Well, now that's development. 3 years in the ****ing system and now he can rollout to his left side is somehow a victory? The guy is a bum and he's hit his bum ceiling.
Kizer and Boyle actually show some real pro level presence. There isn't even a comparison. Let's not continue to Carl Bradford every ****ing stiff on the roster. Oh wait, MM and his input.
Time to call the shots Gutros Gutros-Gali
Now you're just Dana-Carvey-does-John-McLaughlan-ing it.
I'm with you Henry in terms of wanting to see Boyle in some more meaningful situations. I saw some people hyping him up on different message boards before yesterday and I was pretty skeptical. After yesterday, I'm on board with the "believers", that kid deserves a real shot at making the roster. He may be a street FA, but his raw tools are that of someone that should have been a high draft pick.
They should do Hundlet a favor & jettison him now.
Have they considered moving him to tight end?
