Brett Favre is retiring again

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sure it is. they went from 4-12 to 9-7, sold a bunch of merchandise and now have 13 mil to play with.

is it debatable that it worked out for the Pack since they went from 13-3 to 6-10?

You really think Favre was the sole reason for the drop? Or that they would have won those games with him at the helm?

Wow.

Should X4 order the manufacture of a bunch of #4 TOG Minneapolis Viking jerseys? That'll be the next color for the mantle, and I'll be quite interested to see how many 'GBP fans' order that model in the puke purple. I bet we'd cover the bandwidth for about 3 years pretty easily.

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Originally posted by packerboi:
The more interesting question will be how long it will take before the Packers and a large volume of their fans forgive him for his antics last season and retire his jersey. Not holdin' my breath it will be anytime soon.

2010 season. if he doesn't waffle again i'll be over it and they can have the ceremony next year.

No, its not debateable that it worked out for the Packers. Of course it did. They have a quarterback of the present and the future, along with a 3rd round draft pick in the coming draft.

Had they not shipped Favre off to the Jets last summer, they would be looking at doing 2008 all over again; meaning letting Rodgers be the starter for the first time, going through those growing pains again, and not knowing what the team actually had. That's all behind us. The Packers know exactly what they've got, which is a qb who is better than Favre.

Disagree. There's a lot of hate and vitriol there between the parties. This hatchet won't be buried until TT and MM are gone, and you could possibly include Murphy on that list as well. Cook out-and-out accused Murphy of bribing TOG, and that's not something that's just forgiven that soon. It'll happen, and folks will move on in terms of the fans' point of view, but I think it'll take longer than that for the actual parties involved to move on.

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Originally posted by chickenboy:

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Originally posted by Coach:
Personal opinion on whether it was worth it? We get a high round pick and they're left high and dry after a single season where they not only didn't make the playoffs, but they were knocked out by the team their former QB ended up with and the HC ended up getting canned and you honestly think it's even debatable?

sure it is. they went from 4-12 to 9-7, sold a bunch of merchandise and now have 13 mil to play with.

is it debatable that it worked out for the Pack since they went from 13-3 to 6-10?

No, they don't. The Jets were reportedly $12 mil over next year's projected cap with Favre on the roster. 13-12=1. That's not even enough room to sign draft picks (of which they now have one fewer 3rd). All for a non-playoff run.

Aside from it being completely irrelevant to the discussion (we're talking about compensation), are you honestly pinning the decline in Green Bay's record primarily to Rodgers (who also had a better year than Favre)?

If you are, you're dead wrong. If you aren't, then what has that got to do with anything regarding the compensation received and the relative position the two teams find themselves in going forward?

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Originally posted by Attack of the Pack:

quote:

sure it is. they went from 4-12 to 9-7, sold a bunch of merchandise and now have 13 mil to play with.

is it debatable that it worked out for the Pack since they went from 13-3 to 6-10?

You really think Favre was the sole reason for the drop? Or that they would have won those games with him at the helm?

Wow.

never said that. never said that favre was the reason the jets went from 4 to 9 wins or that pennington was the reason the phins went from 1 to 11 wins. also never said that arodg was the reason the pack went from 13 to 6 wins. my only point is that i think it was a good move/gamble by the jets that worked out in several ways. someone said it didn't and it wasn't debatable. i disagree.

EDIT: The jets don't have 13 mil to "play with." but they do lose a huge chunk of salary.

Is the punter Shane Lechler's number #4? I say sign him and give him that number.

I enjoy when the old Packers come to Green Bay for alumni day, or like this past year at the Houston game, when Ezra Johnson and Dave Robinson came to the game and were introduced at half time, but I don't care if I ever see Favre in Green Bay again. He's a dick.

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Originally posted by Coach:
No, it isn't fairly obvious Pennington would have "at best" been a stop gap for Clemens. He had a better year, and he's still playing.

Personal opinion on whether it was worth it? We get a high round pick and they're left high and dry after a single season where they not only didn't make the playoffs, but they were knocked out by the team their former QB ended up with and the HC ended up getting canned and you honestly think it's even debatable?

You talk as if it's a given that Pennington would have even started for the Jets this year. It was about 50-50. A year earlier the same coaching staff yanked him for Clemens.

The Jets were well aware that Favre might only play one year. It's not like his retirement now was a surprise to them.

In retrospect they're probably fortunate not to have made the playoffs. That third would have been a second, and they'd probably have been as embarrassed by the Ravens as Pennington's Dolphins were.

BTW, the head coach getting canned doesn't necessarily have anything to do with Favre. Certainly might have happened with Pennington or Clemens at the helm.

quote:

Originally posted by Mick730:
Is the punter Shane Lechler's number #4? I say sign him and give him that number.

Shades of the immortal Vince Ferragamo running (actually, stumbling) around in a #5 GBP jersey.

What "several ways"?

No QB: check
No 3rd pick: check
No playoffs: check
Knocked out of playoffs by team led by player released to make TOG room: Check
Tight against the cap: check
Head Coach fired: check

You're pinning an awful lot on the "excitement" of a 9-7 record and increased jersey sales.

You can't be serious, but apparently you are.

Coach, you're assuming an awful lot if you think most of those checks wouldn't have been there anyway. The third-round pick is the only given.

By the way, they wouldn't have made the playoffs even if they beat the Dolphins in week 17, so that check is incorrect regardless.

Half of you guys can't stand #4 (Which I disagree with), yet you can't stop talking about him.

quote:

Originally posted by Coach:
You're pinning an awful lot on the "excitement" of a 9-7 record and increased jersey sales.

And 1/2 half those jersey sales came from disgruntled TOG ball washers.

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Originally posted by PackFoo:

Plenty of them in this thread.

I hope this time is for real, and the next thing we hear from him is him making peace with us.

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Originally posted by Max:
You talk as if it's a given that Pennington would have even started for the Jets this year. It was about 50-50. A year earlier the same coaching staff yanked him for Clemens.

The Jets were well aware that Favre might only play one year. It's not like his retirement now was a surprise to them.

In retrospect they're probably fortunate not to have made the playoffs. That third would have been a second, and they'd probably have been as embarrassed by the Ravens as Pennington's Dolphins were.

BTW, the head coach getting canned doesn't necessarily have anything to do with Favre. Certainly might have happened with Pennington or Clemens at the helm.

He did play though (and showed that he still could), didn't he? If Clemens could out-perform Pennington (who unquestionably had a better year than Favre did) in training camp, would that not indicate that he could've been at least as successful (and if not Pennington would've still been on the roster)?

We can't know for certain how Pennington would've played for the Jets, however an argument can absolutely be made going by what he did last year that the Jets would've been just as well off with him (if not moreso) than Favre.

I agree with you (to a point) regarding the draft pick, but if you're going for broke for the playoffs and don't get there (which is the only way giving up that kind of a pick for a player you're conceding is at best a short term investment) it's a failure.

The HC getting canned absolutely may not (I have no idea of the relationship behind the scenes) be directly or primarily attributable to Favre (and I didn't say it was), but the Jets' failure to make the playoffs after the fast start (which if you look at TOG's stats over the last six games of the season he played a significant role in the end of season fade) ultimately cost the HC his job. That's not a successful season, and it wasn't a successful trade (for the Jets).

I don't begrudge the Jets for rolling the dice, but I still don't believe the ultimate outcome is even close to debatable.

Obviously I agree the trade didn't work out for the Jets.

I disagree about your idea of the scope of it all. I think the Jets gambled a third-round pick, which was a decent gamble, and that's it.

I think they gambled with more than that, Max, but we'll have to wait to see if I'm right. The latent aspect of their gamble is what would happen after the season. If Favre pulls another act like he did last summer, he'll literally be pulling the Jets over and/or under the cap as long as he stays on the reserve/retired list or asks off of it to be reinstated. That'll wreak complete havoc with their roster, and I don't think the risk the Jets took by making this trade has yet played out completely.

chickenboy, once again you need to just stop.

You sound dumber with each post.

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Originally posted by Max:
Coach, you're assuming an awful lot if you think most of those checks wouldn't have been there anyway. The third-round pick is the only given.

By the way, they wouldn't have made the playoffs even if they beat the Dolphins in week 17, so that check is incorrect regardless.

Not really (although I'll concede the playoffs point...I do seem to recall the Jets were still statistically alive entering the final weeks and wouldn't needed to win that to get in (which they didn't) and help (which they didn't get).

Pennington would've been on the roster (unless released for another reason). If he would've been released anyway by his play last year that would've been a mistake regardless.

They would've still had their 3rd rounder.

They didn't make the playoffs (that's not an assumption that's a fact).

Pennington didn't make as much as Favre so if he was still there, they'd still be in better cap shape (how much better is unkown and not really relevant)

The HC ended up getting fired (which still may or may not have happened with a different QB....but the fact remains it happened with TOG).

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Originally posted by FreeSafety:
chickenboy, once again you need to just stop.

You sound dumber with each post.

not a c-boy photoshop skills ball-washer?

Another funny thing about this thread is I got raked over the coals for wanting Pennington as a vet backup for ARodg last summer. I also stated the Vikes should snag him up immediately. Amazing how dumb I've become...

Forget Shane Lechler. The Packers should sign some undrafted kicker and give him the No. 4.

I hope that TT and MM win enough to stay around for another 10 or 15 years. After that, our next GM and coach can welcome TOG back.

At the end of the day, nobody can argue that TT and MM made the best decision for the franchise (how dare they not do what was best for TOG). They knew that Rodgers could play and they knew that TOG could not last an entire season. Their only mistake was thinking that Sanders could coordinate a defense.

It will take some time for Favre to be embraced in Green Bay again, but it will happen. It might not happen until after Ted or Mike leaves. But at some point it will happen. And it should. He was the greatest player in the history of a franchise with the greatest tradition in football. I try to logically understand his bitterness but it is something he caused and Ted did the best he could in the situation. I don;t know if any other GM could have handled it better. He was not exiled to New York. They provided the best return to the Packers in a trade. Tampa could have beat tnose terms and they would have had him but they did not even come close. The trade also provided him with what he wanted. A chance to play again. Favre needs to move on. And at some point he needs to apologize for his part in what happened. Then maybe the team and he can reunite. Hopefully it is sooner rather than later.

Fans can bash Ted Thompson all day long and pick apart what moves he does or does not make, but in the end, I believe he is a good man, and is not working with some vendetta to ruin Favre. Even the gesture about giving Brett his locker was great gesture but Brett mocked it.

The breakup of Favre and the Packers were like a bad divorce. People attached to both picked sides and dug in like friends and family do in a divorce. Hopefully there will be a reconciliation and the team and FAvre can bury the bitterness of this past year.

Chad Pennington had fallen out of favor with the coaching staff. Clemens was probably going to be their starting QB. Pennington was benched in 2007 and teams usually do not go back to QB's who have been benched.

The Jets knew what they were getting into and decided to go for it. If they had to do it all over again, they probably would not have.

I would like to believe that Brett is done, but nothing he has done over the course of the last few years would lead one to think that.

quote:

Originally posted by chickenboy:
Another funny thing about this thread is I got raked over the coals for wanting Pennington as a vet backup for ARodg last summer....

....I'm still going to "rake you over the coals" for it. Particularly since it would have been a complete watse of money or did you forget Rodgers played all 16 games last year?

Take a deep breath... step away from the keyboard. GO have some coffee (preferrably decaf for you). Thanks

quote:

Originally posted by Coach:

quote:

Originally posted by Max:
Coach, you're assuming an awful lot if you think most of those checks wouldn't have been there anyway. The third-round pick is the only given.

By the way, they wouldn't have made the playoffs even if they beat the Dolphins in week 17, so that check is incorrect regardless.

Not really (although I'll concede the playoffs point...I do seem to recall the Jets were still statistically alive entering the final weeks and wouldn't needed to win that to get in (which they didn't) and help (which they didn't get).

Pennington would've been on the roster (unless released for another reason). If he would've been released anyway by his play last year that would've been a mistake regardless.

They would've still had their 3rd rounder.

They didn't make the playoffs (that's not an assumption that's a fact).

Pennington didn't make as much as Favre so if he was still there, they'd still be in better cap shape (how much better is unkown and not really relevant)

The HC ended up getting fired (which still may or may not have happened with a different QB....but the fact remains it happened with TOG).

It's an assumption that the Favre trade had any impact on them not making the playoffs. They would have needed to win two more games with Pennington, and no one knows if they'd have gotten them. Maybe they'd have won a couple of Favre's worst games but lost a couple of his best ones.

Their cap shape would be the same. Favre's salary is off the books once they place him on the reserve/retired list.

If the Jets had beat the Dolphins in week 17, New England would have won the AFC East. NY needed to win and have either the Pats or Ravens lose, and both had already won when the Jets were still playing Miami.

JJSD, the difference is that if Favre wants to come back come July, and they can't fit him under cap, they can at that point release him, since -- unlike the Packers last July -- they're not concerned about him ending up with the Vikings. The Jets are already out the 3rd-round pick, which they'll be out if he stays retired or comes out. The only cost of them releasing him (which is one reason why they wouldn't automatically do it right now) is they wouldn't get a seventh-round pick from the Packers. Not a great pick, obviously, but they're not going to give it up for no reason.

It would have been a waste to have a decent veteran QB to back up a player who had never started a full 16 game season in his career?

I would disagree with that one. I would still prefer that next year's backup QB is not named Flynn or Brohm. QB's do get hurt in the NFL, the Packers are extremely fortunate that it has not happened since 1991.

As it turns out, and especially since they drafted not one but TWO QB's, yes signing Pennington (assuming of course he would even come here) would have been a bad decision.

Does everyone forget that Miami signed him, nearly immediately, after the Jets released him??

Originally posted by chickenboy:

quote:

What's that got to do with him? Seems par for the course with brother Scott. you left out the unquoted favre comment that followed:

Favre admits to virtually no interest in that kind of intramural competition. But he was devout in doing whatever he could to ensure that the Jets accomplished more than the Packers.

Regardless of which side of the fence you were on in the "saga of last summer," any competitor would wanna outperform the organization that they felt animosity toward.

Anyway, hopefully he had his last fling and he and the Packers can bury the hatchet.

I did not include the following sentences because I do not expect Favre to publicly admit to being concerned with Rodgers performance. What did surprise me, however, is that "friends and family" were "consumed" with how Rodgers was doing in Green Bay and were urging Favre to "throw more touchdown passes than his opponent." I understand that the animosity towards the Packers organization is strong among Favre's closest supporters, but the conflict was never between Favre and Rodgers. I figured that Favre's friends and family (his agent? his brother? his wife?) understood the distinction. I just find it sad that those around Favre were trying to make it all about Rodger's performance.

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Originally posted by JJSD: If Favre pulls another act like he did last summer, he'll literally be pulling the Jets over and/or under the cap as long as he stays on the reserve/retired list or asks off of it to be reinstated.

That's the caveat in this whole discussion, if he pulls that again, not a good trade. However, I don't see why it's ridiculous to believe this didn't work out to some degree for the Jets. I suppose it's kinda the same as the CC trade the Crew made last summer. Some think they gave up too much to just make the playoffs and lose in the first round while some believe it was worth it just to make it. Now the Jets missed the playoffs, but they did make a five game swing. Worth it or not? Your opinion and your opinion on what a third round picks is worth.

quote:

Originally posted by chickenboy:
Another funny thing about this thread is I got raked over the coals for wanting Pennington as a vet backup for ARodg last summer. I also stated the Vikes should snag him up immediately. Amazing how dumb I've become...

Why would Pennington go to Green Bay to backup when he had opportunities elsewhere to compete for a starting job and could still command 6-8 mil on the open market, and why would TT bring in a guy to backup that would've been making millions more (if he had signed) than Rodgers at the time (who hadn't been extended yet)?

They reportedly only offered Fumble-Pepper a Mil after all.

And I agree with you, it is amazing.

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Originally posted by BigChiefSecurity:
It would have been a waste to have a decent veteran QB to back up a player who had never started a full 16 game season in his career?

I would disagree with that one. I would still prefer that next year's backup QB is not named Flynn or Brohm. QB's do get hurt in the NFL, the Packers are extremely fortunate that it has not happened since 1991.

Right on. Hindsight is 20/20. For a team with playoffs aspirations to go into a seaason with a first-year starter and two rookies as backups was foolish. But that's another discussion (one that's been beat to death as well).

It would not have been a waste to had Pennington on a one year contract. Veteran backup QB's that can win games are a good thing to have.

Flynn could have went to the practice squad. Does everyone forget that there is a practice squad?

If Miami outbids Green Bay, then so be it, he goes to Miami. Doesn't mean he wouldn't have been an asset to the Packers' roster

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Originally posted by Boris:

quote:

Originally posted by chickenboy:
Another funny thing about this thread is I got raked over the coals for wanting Pennington as a vet backup for ARodg last summer....

....I'm still going to "rake you over the coals" for it. Particularly since it would have been a complete watse of money or did you forget Rodgers played all 16 games last year?

Take a deep breath... step away from the keyboard. GO have some coffee (preferrably decaf for you). Thanks

maybe they should have just skipped the backup QB position altogether then.

Again, Favre asking to be reinstated and forcing the Jets to consider releasing him, should that happen, is only a problem for the Jets if they gave a damn where he ended up. It was a bigger deal for the Packers last year, who had division rivals' whose biggest deficiency appeared to be at quarterback. I think we can agree that if the Jets released Favre he wouldn't go sign with the Patriots or anything.

Obviously it's only a problem for the Jets. Some of us just think that's exactly what's going to happen. Any other reason Cook would have asked the Jets for Favre's outright release?