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@TJQuinnESPN
Sources tell @OTLonESPN Bosch will swear an affidavit that he provided drugs to players. MLB may seek 100-game suspensions for Braun, A-Rod
ESPN write-up
One source familiar with the case said the commissioner's office might seek 100-game suspensions for Rodriguez, Braun and other players, the penalty for a second doping offense. The argument, the source said, is that the players' connection to Bosch constitutes one offense, and previous statements to MLB officials denying any such connection or the use of PEDs constitute another.
Sources tell @OTLonESPN Bosch will swear an affidavit that he provided drugs to players. MLB may seek 100-game suspensions for Braun, A-Rod
ESPN write-up
One source familiar with the case said the commissioner's office might seek 100-game suspensions for Rodriguez, Braun and other players, the penalty for a second doping offense. The argument, the source said, is that the players' connection to Bosch constitutes one offense, and previous statements to MLB officials denying any such connection or the use of PEDs constitute another.
quote:Originally posted by kabeerme: The argument, the source said, is that the players' connection to Bosch constitutes one offense... [/i]
This doesn't make much sense to me...but then again all this PED stuff makes my head spin...
This is absurd. If they couldn't suspend him when they had a jar of piss in their possession with a positive result, how on earth is the testimony of a known liar going to hold up during the appeals process scrutiny?
I personally have found Braun's explanation of that first episode to be lacking, but this is just harrassment. MLB seems to be way overstepping here...I can't imagine the CBA allows MLB to levy 100 game suspensions whenever a bioclinic owner decides to contradict his own story.
I personally have found Braun's explanation of that first episode to be lacking, but this is just harrassment. MLB seems to be way overstepping here...I can't imagine the CBA allows MLB to levy 100 game suspensions whenever a bioclinic owner decides to contradict his own story.
Good luck on getting that through the courts.
So having Bosch name you is offense #1. Stating you didn't know Bosch or use PED's prior to that constitutes offense #2. WTF is that???
And Bosch has now agreed to cooperate with MLB based on a deal offered by MLB...???
Is it at all possible MLB has decided this is the way to whittle away the NFL's popularity by showing they are taking (pushing the legal process way too far)an aggressive stance on PED's?
The amount of $$$ spent in legal expenses as a result of this makes the mind reel.
And Bosch has now agreed to cooperate with MLB based on a deal offered by MLB...???
Is it at all possible MLB has decided this is the way to whittle away the NFL's popularity by showing they are taking (pushing the legal process way too far)an aggressive stance on PED's?
The amount of $$$ spent in legal expenses as a result of this makes the mind reel.
Sellers anyway, but this speeds the process.
Lawsuits forthcoming.
Lawsuits forthcoming.
Well well well....looks like a bunch of people around here owe PackerJoe an apology
way to go * Braun *
way to go * Braun *
Mass spectrometer1!!!!11
If Braun is suspended, boy, I can almost see that being the death of baseball in Milwaukee. There's not much incentive to go to a game now. If they don't even have their marquee player to watch, why would fans bother going?
A schitty season keeps getting schittier.
A schitty season keeps getting schittier.
There is always that high draft pick to shoot for
If this proves to be accurate and he is suspended for the rest of the year what a nightmare season this has been for the Brewers.
MLB has been pretty good about keeping this stuff private. I'm shocked there has been a leak.
I wasn't 100% sold on Braun's explanation the first time. However, this just screams headhunting. MLB has been pouting like a 3 year old ever since Braun walked last time.
There is no way in hell this goes through. A known liar, now agreeing to cooperate with MLB because someone is putting the squeeze on him? The lawyers are going to have a field day with that.
And 100 games? No lawsuit there, nope.
By the time any of this gets through the courts, the season will be over.
There is no way in hell this goes through. A known liar, now agreeing to cooperate with MLB because someone is putting the squeeze on him? The lawyers are going to have a field day with that.
And 100 games? No lawsuit there, nope.
By the time any of this gets through the courts, the season will be over.
quote:Originally posted by Boneio:
By the time any of this gets through the courts, the season will be over.
Lots of ifs here, but this may suck in the long run if the alleged 100 game suspension held up somehow - now Braun would sit the first fifty/hundo of next year (assuming he wouldn't be serving during the appeal/court case).
The "kicks" just keep on coming for the Brewers.
Like I said before, time to clean house. But dont reward Braun with a trade, let him wallow in the losing culture that continues to grow in Beer Town.
As for MLB, they are a joke too. The once proud past-time of America has become a 2nd rate side-show. Greedy owners, power-hungry union, mega-paid under-performing players and over-charged fans.
I dont give a hoot about this investigation, the crook Bosch, the players or the outcomes. Baseball used to fun to watch. For me, the fun stopped years ago.
Like I said before, time to clean house. But dont reward Braun with a trade, let him wallow in the losing culture that continues to grow in Beer Town.
As for MLB, they are a joke too. The once proud past-time of America has become a 2nd rate side-show. Greedy owners, power-hungry union, mega-paid under-performing players and over-charged fans.
I dont give a hoot about this investigation, the crook Bosch, the players or the outcomes. Baseball used to fun to watch. For me, the fun stopped years ago.
I'm gonna' be honest. I watched the Crew tonight because I'm sick and tired of MLB running a second rate side show trying to derail Braun for making them look like a clown show. And I'm going to keep watching now. This is a prepubescent sand box witch hunt now over hurt feelings.
Test Braun, again, again, and again. If he pisses hot, then suspend him. Otherwise, f**k off MLB.
I have no idea what MLB's angle is here. But right now it stinks to high heaven.
Test Braun, again, again, and again. If he pisses hot, then suspend him. Otherwise, f**k off MLB.
I have no idea what MLB's angle is here. But right now it stinks to high heaven.
They should just stop with this anti-steroid charade in pro sports. All of these guys are juicing, and frankly, I just don't care. Fans who get all worked up about this stuff look at these athletes through the eyes of 10 year old boys.
MLB can cry all they want but they lost the arbitration hearing fair and square so **** them. That's how it works. The chain of custody was impacted with Braun the first time around so he walks. Again, that's how the process works.
It does seem to have a sour grapes angle but i find it hard to believe MLB would go to these lengths and disclose the information if they didn't have their ducks in a row. Time will tell I guess.
It does seem to have a sour grapes angle but i find it hard to believe MLB would go to these lengths and disclose the information if they didn't have their ducks in a row. Time will tell I guess.
I will admit to not being the biggest follower of baseball but when did Braun get caught the first time? I know there was the tainted sample thing that happened a year or two ago but was he actually caught to warrant a 2nd offense suspension?
Lets assume Braun is guilty of these charges. If I recall he was to be suspended for 50 games. Now he is perhaps facing 100 games and his reputation will be forever tarnished. In hindsight he would have been much better off taking the 50 games, apologizing and begging for mercy. It would have been over for him. It usually is better in the long run to accept punishment and not lie and compound the situation.
Now if he truly is innocent he should fight till the end but as we all know, where there is smoke there is fire.
Now if he truly is innocent he should fight till the end but as we all know, where there is smoke there is fire.
First paragraph is spot on.
Second point, espn is also in the business of creating smoke
Second point, espn is also in the business of creating smoke
I'm gonna wait and see what the rat bosch has as proof on my #2 boy friend. Ugh....
quote:Originally posted by GBP1:
The "kicks" just keep on coming for the Brewers.
Like I said before, time to clean house. But dont reward Braun with a trade, let him wallow in the losing culture that continues to grow in Beer Town.
As for MLB, they are a joke too. The once proud past-time of America has become a 2nd rate side-show. Greedy owners, power-hungry union, mega-paid under-performing players and over-charged fans.
I dont give a hoot about this investigation, the crook Bosch, the players or the outcomes. Baseball used to fun to watch. For me, the fun stopped years ago.
Agree completely, I do hope that this PED culture is a black eye for baseball players and the League.
quote:Originally posted by Tschmack:
It does seem to have a sour grapes angle but i find it hard to believe MLB would go to these lengths and disclose the information if they didn't have their ducks in a row. Time will tell I guess.
Let's not go overboard here. The report is that there are lots of players that MLB is looking at. I would argue that Braun isn't even the biggest star in this case. If they nail A-Rod, who has already admitted to doping, that is who they are really after. Braun is collateral damage, and one who, got off on a "Technicality" last year.
But wouldn't that be the reason MLB would go after him? The "technicality"?
quote:In his first public comments since reports surfaced in January that Major League Baseball was looking into whether Bosch had provided PEDs to players, including Alex Rodriguez, Melky Cabrera and other stars, Bosch backed up Braun’s claim that his name appeared on a Biogenesis ledger only because his lawyers used Bosch as an expert witness in Braun’s successful 2012 appeal of a 50-game drug suspension handed down by MLB in 2011.
“I just answered a few questions from his legal team, not from Braun or any other ballplayer,” Bosch said in an interview reported by ESPN Monday night.
So, MLB is going to continue this witch hunt because of a name written on a piece of paper. Based on words from a guy that is trying to get himself out of federal issues. Based on words that change 180 degrees possibly in the span of 5 weeks.
And, ESPN is reporting all of this as fact.
Gotta love MLB and ESPN man. Look I found this piece of paper with two guys from ESPN's name on them! Clearly they were buying cocaine from someone! Send them to prison right now!
I am always amazed at how much more we care about PEDs in baseball than football. The stuff that guys are on in football probably makes the baseball players look like grade school kids by comparison.
Can we please stop saying "technicality"?
It is NOT a technicality when the sample and testing procedures are done incorrectly.
Drug testing has very specific protocols and procedures in place for very clear and important reasons. If you are going to threaten someone's livelihood based on drug testing, those tests have to be 100%. A specimen kept in some guys basement for 3 days after the fact is not proper procedure. It could have been tampered with. It could have been put in an environment that it wasn't supposed to be in.
How anyone can view or call this a "technicality" is mind boggling to me. This isn't a "oops, he spelled the name Bruan on the sample, so too bad." This was an error in the most fundamental aspect of drug testing.
It is NOT a technicality when the sample and testing procedures are done incorrectly.
Drug testing has very specific protocols and procedures in place for very clear and important reasons. If you are going to threaten someone's livelihood based on drug testing, those tests have to be 100%. A specimen kept in some guys basement for 3 days after the fact is not proper procedure. It could have been tampered with. It could have been put in an environment that it wasn't supposed to be in.
How anyone can view or call this a "technicality" is mind boggling to me. This isn't a "oops, he spelled the name Bruan on the sample, so too bad." This was an error in the most fundamental aspect of drug testing.
The other big problem with all this is the leaks of information from someone connected to MLB. Whether Braun was guilty or not, or whether you think he got off on a technicality, his case needed to stay confidential until after the appeal process happened (and then if he was not found guilty the case needed to say sealed).
The loss of confidentiality will have as big an effect on future negotiations between MLB and the MBLPA than anything else. What if someone is actually found to be completely exonerated but was linked to a positive test by accident? They'll have already been convicted in the court of public opinion. The people in MLB that leaked the information about Braun 18 months ago did as much to damage the possibility of even trying to keep the game remotely clean as anyone else.
The loss of confidentiality will have as big an effect on future negotiations between MLB and the MBLPA than anything else. What if someone is actually found to be completely exonerated but was linked to a positive test by accident? They'll have already been convicted in the court of public opinion. The people in MLB that leaked the information about Braun 18 months ago did as much to damage the possibility of even trying to keep the game remotely clean as anyone else.
Why does the best testing system in sports need to go this route anyway?
George Mitchell thinks this is all a waste of time and effort.
The leak on the first drug test result apparently didn't come from MLB...I believe Braun's reps said it came from someone he consulted with (perhaps even the clinic guy in question here).
MLB will always receive more scrutiny with PEDs than the NFL for a couple of reasons:
1) Antitrust exemption gives Congress an excuse to exert pressure on them
2) Fans have a stronger emotional connection to historical records
Regarding Braun:
1) I've personally found his explanation of the initial drug test failure to be lacking -- if he is innocent I would have liked to hear a reasonable defense to explain what happened.
2) Regardless of my personal thoughts on him, his appeal was correctly and justly granted b/c of the breakdown of the process. There's no debating this -- just b/c I'd like an explanation doesn't mean he should or must provide an explanation to be correctly cleared. That's how the system works. If he wants public opinion to be in his favor, he may have a higher hurdle to clear, but that's a separate issue.
3) This latest ordeal is absurd. If an arbiter correctly ruled that a urine sample that tested positive should be thrown out, how on earth is a piece of paper with a name on it along with the contradictory testimony of the guy who wrote the name sufficient? No way that sticks and it would be an outrage if it did. The double jeopardy 100 game suspension threat is just the cherry on top. It's completely ridiculous and I suspect MLB is just doing this either out of personal vendettas or they are trying to win points with Congress through a symbolic gesture of how tough they are trying to clean up the sport.
MLB will always receive more scrutiny with PEDs than the NFL for a couple of reasons:
1) Antitrust exemption gives Congress an excuse to exert pressure on them
2) Fans have a stronger emotional connection to historical records
Regarding Braun:
1) I've personally found his explanation of the initial drug test failure to be lacking -- if he is innocent I would have liked to hear a reasonable defense to explain what happened.
2) Regardless of my personal thoughts on him, his appeal was correctly and justly granted b/c of the breakdown of the process. There's no debating this -- just b/c I'd like an explanation doesn't mean he should or must provide an explanation to be correctly cleared. That's how the system works. If he wants public opinion to be in his favor, he may have a higher hurdle to clear, but that's a separate issue.
3) This latest ordeal is absurd. If an arbiter correctly ruled that a urine sample that tested positive should be thrown out, how on earth is a piece of paper with a name on it along with the contradictory testimony of the guy who wrote the name sufficient? No way that sticks and it would be an outrage if it did. The double jeopardy 100 game suspension threat is just the cherry on top. It's completely ridiculous and I suspect MLB is just doing this either out of personal vendettas or they are trying to win points with Congress through a symbolic gesture of how tough they are trying to clean up the sport.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by GBP1:
As for MLB, they are a joke too. The once proud past-time of America has become a 2nd rate side-show. Greedy owners, power-hungry union, mega-paid under-performing players and over-charged fans.
QUOTE]
Not to attack you GBP, but how is the NFL any different. That league under Goddell has become more corrupt then ever. Think the Seahawks are the only ones juicing? And greedy owners? Jerry Jones may be the worst in any sport.
But I whole heartedly agree with you. The older I get, the more I care less about pro sports. I'm sure in the 80's, there were plenty of shady things going on. But everything seems much worse now.
As for MLB, they are a joke too. The once proud past-time of America has become a 2nd rate side-show. Greedy owners, power-hungry union, mega-paid under-performing players and over-charged fans.
QUOTE]
Not to attack you GBP, but how is the NFL any different. That league under Goddell has become more corrupt then ever. Think the Seahawks are the only ones juicing? And greedy owners? Jerry Jones may be the worst in any sport.
But I whole heartedly agree with you. The older I get, the more I care less about pro sports. I'm sure in the 80's, there were plenty of shady things going on. But everything seems much worse now.
quote:Originally posted by CAPackFan95:
Can we please stop saying "technicality"?
It is NOT a technicality when the sample and testing procedures are done incorrectly.
Drug testing has very specific protocols and procedures in place for very clear and important reasons. If you are going to threaten someone's livelihood based on drug testing, those tests have to be 100%. A specimen kept in some guys basement for 3 days after the fact is not proper procedure. It could have been tampered with. It could have been put in an environment that it wasn't supposed to be in.
How anyone can view or call this a "technicality" is mind boggling to me. This isn't a "oops, he spelled the name Bruan on the sample, so too bad." This was an error in the most fundamental aspect of drug testing.
This is one of the best posts I've ever seen on this forum, CA. Chapeau.
In my opinion, this whole thing has become highly reminiscent of "The Crucible". For any of you that are unfamiliar with Arthur Miller's work, the play was written about the Salem Witch Trials as a metaphor for Joseph McCarthy's "red scare", where he had thousands of Americans arrested, accusing them of being communists. History has shown those accusations, in large part, were baseless, and many innocent people had their reputations forever tarnished. Now, I'm not commenting as to Ryan Braun's guilt or innocence here, rather the environment created by MLB, and the stigma that is now attached to Braun's name, regardless of what happens going forward. MLB's "getting Braun", at least it seems to me, has usurped their desire to clean steroids out of the game.
It's just amazing to me the amount of "froth" that's been created by MLB, ESPN, Yahoo Sports and a few other media outlets that seem to be working in concert. They are taking an issue that is supposed to be handled through a confidential process, and making it very public. It used to be if a player were suspended for using an illegal drug, we could be confident that the system worked, that a very clear-cut process had been followed: MLB levied their suspension, the player in question had opportunity to confer with the Player's Union, and if there were grounds for appeal, enter into binding arbitration as a means to have their grievance heard. Now, we're hearing that suspension are imminent for some 20 players before the whole process has even started. And poor Ryan Braun, who is still bound to the confidentiality clause of the first appeal, can't speak out in any detail in his own defense. Why? Because even though he won arbitration, MLB is going to seek a 100 game suspension, asserting that in the first appeal Braun lied to them. So even though Braun won, they are going to treat it as a loss.
Does MLB have enough evidence to "convict" (or in this case, affect the suspension they seek)? Based on what I've been reading, I don't think so. I strongly believe the crux of their entire case is the word and "records" provided by Bosch, somebody who has already affirmed what Braun and his defense team have said publicly: the dollar amounts listed in the Biogenesis records were monies due for consulting. The case will be won or lost on the credibility of this man. It is clear that MLB is using strong-arm tactics to coerce favorable testimony from Bosch, and I have to believe on cross, he'll be torn apart.
I have to believe right now the attorneys for Braun's team, and the Player's Union, are absolutely licking their chops. They will go to bed tonight dreaming of billable hours.
Yup, MLB is going out of their way in this witch hunt to denigrate some of their biggest stars....
quote:Originally posted by Pikes Peak:
Yup, MLB is going out of their way in this witch hunt to denigrate some of their biggest stars....
What else would you call it? If MLB truly cared about the integrity of the game, and getting rid of steroids, this wouldn't be playing out on a public stage. Yet now, every time MLB farts, it's splattered all over the headlines. Either MLB is remiss in ensuring the confidentiality of process, or they just don't care. They had their shot at suspending Ryan Braun, and they lost. Yet here they are, like little kids who were told they couldn't have desert after dinner, crying about Ryan Braun, the big bad cheater, all over again. They have an agenda, it's unmistakable. They're looking to get even with the guy that embarrassed them.
Where was all this moral indignation from MLB when both Mark McGwire and Sammy Sosa managed to, in the same season, do something that had not been done even once in the prior 123 years? Babe Ruth, arguably the greatest power hitter in the game's history, in ideal circumstances (no African American or Latin American players, no cross-country travel, no night games, pitchers with lower velocity throwing more complete games), could only hit 60 bombs in his best season. Yet these two guys out of the blue are able to manage 70 and 66 home runs. Did MLB even raise the steroid issue? Nope, they reaped the increased attendance. They embraced the whole "chicks did the long ball" mentality. When Barry Bonds, a guy that had never hit 50 home runs in a season, suddenly hits 73 home runs at the age of 36, did you see MLB puffing it's chest, accusing Bonds of cheating? Of course not. But now they have to clean up the sport, and if it means railroading some players they think (but cannot prove) are cheaters, so be it.