He will if there is money on the line.
Ugh......I just want it to be over...I'm just sick about Ryan, and now this guy's attempt at his 15 minutes of fame. My #2 boyfriend is losing ground, but not his spot. Just want it to all go away. 
I don't care if "most everyone does it."
RYAN BRAUN IS A TOOL
Lyin' Ryan played the anti-Semitic card. Why is this not a surprise? Every time it appears that Braun couldn't look any worse a new story comes out and Braun looks like an even bigger asshole.
So for months we listened to the fools that believed Braun (that's you CAPackFan95) complain non-stop about MLB's leaks when MLB never leaked anything. Anyone care to comment on Braun's team throwing Laurenzi's name to the media?
Anyone see Matt Lauer ambush A-Rod's lawyer this morning on the Today Show? Matt set's him up by getting him to comment on Baseball not waiving the confidentiality agreement. Matt hands him a letter from the commissioner that was sent to the Today show overnight that say's the agreement is waived and everyone will be allowed to spill everything they have.
It's just a whole lot of dooshyness by all involved. Lauer for springing it on him. The lawyer for 30 seconds of stammering. The offices of MLB for agreeing to do something like this in the first place. This entire thing is an unmitigated grease fire.
Originally Posted by CAPackFan95:
That said, I also think MLB absolutely has an ax to grind with him specifically because he beat the system last year.
I think this perfectly captures the mindset of many Brewer fans -- sure Braun cheated, but MLB has also had a personal vendetta against the guy ever since he was cleared by the arbiter.
The problem is, I think this mentality is based on a false assumption that this is personal between MLB/Selig and Braun. It's becoming increasingly clear that MLB's hunt for these guys has nothing to do about the violaters themselves and everything to do with Bud Selig and his legacy.
For years, Selig's been a punching bag in the media for looking the other way and even benefiting from the PED problems of the late 90's and early 2000's. Baseball has experienced unreal growth and progress in so many areas under Selig's command, yet he's still perceived negatively because of his lack of leadership.
So when he's confronted with compelling evidence of PED abuse outside of a dirty test (and let's not kid ourselves, despite all the fishiness with the Biogenesis guy, etc., there's plenty of smoke here to pursue), what's he to do? According to most Brewer fans today, he's to ignore it because it's not a dirty test. But that's simply because Braun is in the crosss-hairs. Replace Braun with Pujols, and I'm convinced Brewer fans would have a totally different perspective on Selig's responsibility to act on this information. Heck, an entire generation of baseball fans still hates the guy for not acting on PEDs when it wasn't even in the CBA...so of course Selig isn't going to look the other way here. He's done that before and knows how that's perceived. So this time he's going to pursue these guys, whether they go into this thing with high Q ratings (Braun) or already toxic (A-Rod).
So, no, this isn't a personal vendetta against individual a or individual b. This is about a man learning from history and vowing never to do that again. And we can argue whether it's in his or the games best interests to do so...that would be an interesting discussion on both sides.
But let's not waste any more time painting Braun as any sort of victim here (even if we acknowledge he cheated). The guy hits a new low every week -- and this latest story about the collector should prove once and for all what a jerk Braun has been during this ordeal.
I am done reading about Braun...he is dead to me.
I don't care about PEDs. I don't buy into the ESPN fueled narratives about it. I don't think that MLB "turned a blind eye." I don't care about PEDs any more than I care about guys in the clubhouse popping 26 Red Bulls before a game. I don't care for Buster Olney spewing diatribes from his moral high horse communicating the talking points that MLB instructs him to, while conveniently ignoring the plethora of MLBs issues altogether.
Every generation of baseball player has tried to find ways to cheat the system in order to gain an advantage. From dried monkey testicle elixirs to spitballs to nail files to thumbtacks to bent eyelets of gloves to wedding rings to sandpaper to greenies to red juice to stealing signs to altering the field to corked bats to superballs to PEDs. Every single generation of ballplayer cheated in some way. Yet, PEDs are worse somehow? Because?
If cheating is cheating, then be consistent and manufacture outrage over almost every player in the game through all of history - tell us how horrible Mickey Mantle and Whitey Ford and Willie Mays and Gaylord Perry are. Scream about how they have stained the game and the Hall of Fame. Lobby for their banishment from the Hall of Fame. Thing is - guys like Olney view Whitey Ford as heroes, and if they are even bothered, they talk lightheartedly about that great competitor Whitey using his wedding ring to scuff baseballs. WHAT A CHARACTER HE WAS!!! HE CHEATED BUT HE WAS A LEGEND!
Otherwise, be a hypocrite and get back to your ESPN and TMZ fueled outrage and narratives about PEDs being the bane of MLBs existence.
I'm guessing Shyam Das heard the collector was a Cub fan and that was enough to put in judgment into question.
CaP? I am borrowing part of that to post online...love it.
One could argue that everyone who takes a medication is cheating nature.
Great article, that just got posted to Deadspin - I did not see it prior to my post...
The furor over PEDs is fundamentally a moral panic, and like the much more serious War on (Some Classes of People Who Use Some) Drugs it's defined above all by arbitrariness and irrational double standards.
Nor is it obvious why taking PEDs is considered highly objectionable but taking cortisone to play through terrible knee or back injuries is considered part of the game.
But the particular focus on players of the '90s makes it clear where baseball's anti-PED hysteria comes from. It's about the boomers who are offended that better players have taken over records they believe should belong to their childhood heroes in perpetuity.
Originally Posted by CAPackFan95:
I don't think that MLB "turned a blind eye."
...
Otherwise, be a hypocrite and get back to your ESPN and TMZ fueled outrage and narratives about PEDs being the bane of MLBs existence.
Is this directed at my post? I sure hope not because if so, that's an enormous strawman. At no point did I say anything about PEDs being the worse thing on earth. I simply pointed out that Selig's motivation in this probably has more to do with him getting beat up regularly on the PED's issue for years vs. some personal vendetta he has against Braun. It's not clear to me how that statement can be twisted into a moralizing argument on the evils of PEDs. I was simply trying to explain Selig's motivation for pursuing this.
While you personally may not care if baseball ignored PEDs in the 90's, plenty of fans do. In fact, plenty of Brewer fans do...how many Brewer fans consider Barry Bonds the true HR king over Hank Aaron.
Regarding PEDs in general, I think you raise some fine points on whether sports fans should care about them based on history and what they can even do now. That's a great topic of discussion and one I wish would get more coverage.
But let's also acknowledge the PEDs issue is not the sole reason people are down on Braun. The real damaging stuff is the way he lied to the public, lied to his teammates, lied to other players in the league (and friends like Rodgers out of the league), and indeed said awful things about a guy doing his job (no way to spin it now that he didn't throw the collector under the bus). No matter where you fall on the PED debate, that sort of behavior is despicable for anyone, let alone the face of the franchise. And while I'm not of the Chris Carpenter mindset of "what do I tell my son"...I'm also not going to delude myself that Braun is any kind of victim here.
It wasn't directed at you. It was a personal statement I made. Nothing more, nothing less.
Originally Posted by Rockin' Robin:
indeed said awful things about a guy doing his job (no way to spin it now that he didn't throw the collector under the bus).
I'm curious how this plays out as well. I would suspect that Braun's team came up with this plan, either through information they found out about the guy, information they twisted about the guy, or information they invented about the guy. While it is possible Braun came up with the "anti-Semite" angle on his own, I guess I doubt that (what do I know?). He was open to believing it and repeating it, which is it's own problem. I think most everything Braun said and did was a calculated move by his legal team, which at the time seemed pretty damn smart, but time has not been kind to that narrative. Considering the guy did screw up just doing his job, being called out for screwing up doesn't seem to be a problem in my book.
Agree Braun is no victim here.
Originally Posted by PackerJoe:
So for months we listened to the fools that believed Braun (that's you CAPackFan95) complain non-stop about MLB's leaks when MLB never leaked anything. Anyone care to comment on Braun's team throwing Laurenzi's name to the media?
For months we've listened to brain dead lackeys that simply spew whatever narrative that Buster Olney or Jeff Passan tells them to spew (that's you PackerJoe). And, it continued this morning, as ESPN told more TMZ like stories about Braun: throwing Laurenzi under the bus, calling him an anti semite, and a Cub fan. And within minutes of Passan and Olney telling PackerJoe what to think - he posts it here this AM like a good little lackey!
Anyhoo. Anyone care to comment on Troy Tulowiski completely denying the "news" that ESPN and Yahoo "reported" this morning that Braun threw the collector under the bus, called him an anti semite, and a Cubs fans to several MLB players, including Tulowiski?
Yahoo! Sports wrote that Braun tried to curry support with players, including Tulowitzki, the Dodgers’ Matt Kemp and the Reds’ Joey Votto, by alleging that Dino Laurenzi Jr., the sample collector, was anti-Semitic and a Cubs fan.
“He never say anything like that to me or asked for my support,” Tulowitzki said after reading the story on Monday.
WAIT. ESPN WASN'T ACCURATE? OR TRUTHFUL? OR HONEST? Oh dear, all these people hating on Braun for lying, yet depending on ESPN for the daily talking points must be so confused. Or intellectually dishonest.
Either way...
If you think that's good, CA, wait until you read this. Now Joey Votto, too, is saying that the Passan/Olney articles are wrong; no call ever happened.
http://cincinnati.com/blogs/re...ot-reach-out-to-him/
So, how long until Kemp comes out and says the same thing, hmm?
http://cincinnati.com/blogs/re...ot-reach-out-to-him/
Votto said he never spoke with Braun.
“As far as a phone call, I have no problem getting AT&T into this if they like,” Votto said. “There was never a phone call. It’s so silly to have to comment on this. That was really odd. I heard about it last night and it really bothered me. There was not that phone conversation.
So, how long until Kemp comes out and says the same thing, hmm?
I'm shocked. Passan and Olney are lying biased pieces of garbage?
Say it ain't so, PackerJoe. Say it ain't so.
Say it ain't so, PackerJoe. Say it ain't so.
Have noticed today that nothing has been said on the radio about Tulo and Votto's comments and JSO buried them at the bottom of the piece on Braun's disgruntled buddy.
Also, Olney and Passan's comments were so crazy that I believed them. I mean, who would make that stuff up? Hopefully they will have to address where and how they got this info but I suspect that won't happen. This whole thing is becoming a joke from the league, media and players/coaches (specifically Gibson's comments and Dempster the other night).
from the article I linked...
ESPN cited three unnamed sources saying Braun called veteran players privately to lobby for their support while waiting for arbitrator Shyam Das' verdict on his appeal of a positive test for elevated testosterone levels in October 2011. By claiming Laurenzi was a Cubs fan, the inference was that he might try to harm the star of their divisional rival, the Brewers.
Apparently, when cross validating with multiple sources, ESPN chose not to talk to the players it was referring to.
Also I'm sure we can all agree that, even as completely and utterly wrong Olney and Passan were on this, surely this is the only thing that either of them have gotten wrong in this whole situation. Right! Right. Right?
Also it's interesting that within minutes of a story making Braun look bad, PackerJoe is here posting it for everyone. Yet when that story is proven absolutely incorrect PackerJoe is no where to be found. He must still be on that conference call with Buster and Jeff working on the new talking points.
Also it's interesting that within minutes of a story making Braun look bad, PackerJoe is here posting it for everyone. Yet when that story is proven absolutely incorrect PackerJoe is no where to be found. He must still be on that conference call with Buster and Jeff working on the new talking points.
Well it appears the media finally screwed something up. Up to this point they had batting 1.000. Unless he is still playing you for a fool, Braun is a cheater and a liar. Nice for lambeausouth to finally make an appearance. Sorry kiddies, your athlete hero is just another great big fraud.
He was my athlete hero. You have found the pinnacle of our positions and defeated it with one swift, targeted blow.
Originally Posted by CAPackFan95:
He must still be on that conference call with Buster and Jeff working on the new talking points.
When did joe's mom get a LAN line in the basement?
Did we just get a "living in mom's basement" rip?
quote:CAPackFan:I don't care about PEDs.
If cheating is cheating.
While I appreciate the primary issue, cheating is cheating, I still think appreciating differences are in order.
A person on PED is cheating every single moment he is participating. Every at bat, every fielded play. There is not a single moment where his play is not "cheating."
Not one.
To me, in the absence of such an appreciation, what you are saying is tantamount to one guy being a murderer, another someone who likes to beat people up and saying, "I don't care about murderers. Violence is violence."
more like, he killed the guy with one shot vs he killed the guy with 20 shots, the guy is still dead.
If I look at my neighbor's test to sneak one question - it's cheating.
If I look at my neighbor's test to sneak all questions - it's cheating. It's not double secret cheating.
If you want to determine that some cheating is more or less acceptable to you, that's your prerogative. It's hypocritical but it's absolutely your right.
If I look at my neighbor's test to sneak all questions - it's cheating. It's not double secret cheating.
If you want to determine that some cheating is more or less acceptable to you, that's your prerogative. It's hypocritical but it's absolutely your right.
You certainly consistently write with a provocative tone - and that is your right, of course. I find this compelling, even more so than your objective content.
If one were more precise with the english language, one would discern other possibilities in interpretation (language is often subject to more than one interpretation). That discernment is certainly much more inviting should some interpretations be more critical than others.
In other words, that discernment enables a person to consider less critical possibilities and thereby help to stay clear of the behavior of assigning to others critical observations that are frankly untrue.
1. No cheating is more or less acceptable to me.
2. Some forms of cheating are more severe.
Overlay the above to what I wrote and I do not think you will find incompatibility.
http://disciplesofuecker.com/t...e-vs-character/14068
I enjoyed this, but I also have felt that media like ESPN has sensationalized as much as they can.
Originally Posted by phaedrus:
You certainly consistently write with a provocative tone
He consistently writes with zero butthurt, bullschit and passive aggression.
If you feel "provoked", that's your deal.
Originally Posted by phaedrus:
You certainly consistently write with a provocative tone - and that is your right, of course. I find this compelling, even more so than your objective content.
While I'm flattered that you view me as your armchair Freudian psych subject, I tend not to beat around the bush, nor do I try to obscure my thoughts.
[snips irrelevant material]
1. No cheating is more or less acceptable to me.
2. Some forms of cheating are more severe.
Overlay the above to what I wrote and I do not think you will find incompatibility.
If you apply levels of severity to "cheating" then you by definition must believe that some cheating is "better" or "less severe" and some is "worse" or "more severe".
I don't grasp how one can gauge severity without applying some personal opinions on that.. You stated point blank that you view PED use as a different level of cheating. The implication is that you view cheating by using PEDs as "worse" than I'd assume something like scuffing baseballs with your wedding ring. Maybe the word "acceptable" isn't as precise, however you absolutely do view some cheating as worse than other cheating. Maybe that doesn't mean acceptable, but it clearly you view some types of cheating in a better light than others.
If Mickey Mantle used a corked bat (hint, he did), he cheated every single time he batted. Is that the same "level" of cheating as PEDs? Preacher Roe used to throw spitballs. He went to his hat every pitch to make batters think he was throwing a spitter even if he wasn't. That's cheating every single time he pitched. Is that the same "level" of cheating as PEDs?
And, again, my point is to me cheating is cheating. Using PEDs is cheating. Popping greenies is cheating. Altering a baseball is cheating. Saying that one form of cheating is more/less severe is bizarre and I think hypocritical.
And, we're not even dealing with the larger questions - why is one drug that helps a player recover more quickly or play through pain legal and acceptable (cortisone), while another drug that helps a player recover more quickly or play through pain illegal and viewed as cheating (HgH)...
quote:CAWhile I'm flattered that you view me as your armchair Freudian psych subject
Me thinks thou protests too much! Just said provocative.
Yes, I think it 1) has levels of gradation and 2)in either case is fully wrong.
Certainly cases such as Mantle are quite severe (assuming every at bat was a cheat thanks to a corked bat).
To me an intense example is Bonds.
Not gonna bother, but what percentage increase in home runs did he enjoy after cheating compared to before?
I guess you can speculate based on "how often" or "how long," but it would be speculation. I guess using a corked bat for two seasons is worse than one season, but how can you speculate. Like your Bonds question, it cannot be answered unless you know the first day he got the needle.
It is all cheating. Since Braun and the others still haven't tested positive, we'll probably never know the starting point. I think calling this cheat worse is more emotionally based than anything.
Steroids. Corked Bat. Super cheater?
http://ronroenickestolemybaseb...-defamation-edition/
One of the clearer responses to the lawsuit I've seen.
What’s the most unintentionally hysterical line in the Journal Sentinel article about Sasson’s lawsuit?
I’m so glad you asked this. Near the end of the article is this line:
“Sasson, who says he is a law student…”
How great is that? Most of the time, when a reporter includes that parenthetical explanation of what a person does for a living, they’ll go: “Rubie, a cumquat farmer and amateur blogger, ate twelve tacos…” But the furthest the Journal Sentinel is willing to go with this cat is that he says he’s a law student, like they’re not even going to bother to take the two minutes to confirm with the Taft Law School (which is apparently a thing) that Sasson is studying there. Instead, they’re all: “That’s what dude says. I dunno, you figure it out.”
Would this be the second media outlet that ****ed up? I forgot to check in between hero worship. Not stopping a lot of people from assuming from their basements that Braun cheated on his Linguistics 101 exam and has been taking gummi bears since high school.
To answer CJ's question, Sosa only used to corked bat once, and by accident, which is like a misdemeanor level of cheating. He also doesn't speak enough English to use steroids.