Love Notes - 2023 Game 3 and up!

@bdplant posted:

Real signs? I hope he figures it out and becomes “the guy”, but right now he’s a late game int machine.

I liken comments like that to blaming the loss on the guy that made the last out in a baseball game. In almost every instance Love had given the Packers a late lead and the defense gave it back. Nobody remembers that. These late INTs are really a product of being put in almost impossible situations.

Against the Steelers, a bad call and a blocked XP put the Packers in situations they never should have been in. Love took the Packers down the field twice late in that game to be in a position to score. But part of that is because a missed XP meant the Steelers were defending against a TD instead of a FG. The fact that Love couldn't throw a 20 yard TD pass into 6 DBs in a congested area on the final play of the game doesn't make him an INT machine.

Against every opponent I felt Love was the better QB except against a few veterans. And in a couple years he'll be a better option than them. Love just turned 25 and has a lot of FB ahead of him.

@Fandame posted:

Nice take on Love's INTs. Demovsky also asks, Why does Love keep going to Watson when five of his 10 INTs have come when he targets Watson? I think there's a subtext in there that's more about Watson than Love...

"On their own, there are valid explanations for both plays at the end. But on the whole, Love has thrown 10 interceptions this season, and five of them have come while targeting Watson.

"Six of Love's interceptions have come in the fourth quarter, which is tied for the second-most by a Packers quarterback within the first nine games of a season over the past 45 years, according to the Elias Sports Bureau. Brett Favre did it twice (2000, 2005). Randy Wright had the most with nine in 1986.

"Five of Love's interceptions have come with a chance to tie or take the lead in the fourth quarter. If there's any solace to be taken in that, it's that Aaron Rodgers had similar struggles in his first season as a starter. In 2008, Rodgers threw four interceptions with chances to tie or take the lead in the fourth quarter. Love, however, still has eight games to play."

Here's the linky: Click me!

My preseason prediction coming true.    Pat my back!!

"I don't think they will win many close games this year.    In limited time, Love has shown the propensity to turn the ball over in pressure situations and in the RZ."

https://packers.timesfour.com/...6#711356216947108136

It's who he is...  I'm hoping he proves it wrong and I'm hoping the Packers provide the proper environment to do so, build that OL, but I'm not betting on it happening.

You forgot to include the Packers would blow 4th quarter leads in 4 of their losses. Love could actually have 4 comeback wins this season if not for that.

@PackerRick posted:

I liken comments like that to blaming the loss on the guy that made the last out in a baseball game. In almost every instance Love had given the Packers a late lead and the defense gave it back. Nobody remembers that. These late INTs are really a product of being put in almost impossible situations.

Against the Steelers, a bad call and a blocked XP put the Packers in situations they never should have been in. Love took the Packers down the field twice late in that game to be in a position to score. But part of that is because a missed XP meant the Steelers were defending against a TD instead of a FG. The fact that Love couldn't throw a 20 yard TD pass into 6 DBs in a congested area on the final play of the game doesn't make him an INT machine.

I’m not blaming Love for the loss. There’s plenty of blame to go around on both sides of the ball.  But ten interceptions in nine games….six interceptions in the fourth quarter.  If that’s not a late game int machine, I’m not sure what is.

I realize that Love has a downright mediocre supporting cast, but his decision making and ball placement has been suspect all season.  Watson has problems of his own, but you can’t throw the ball five yards behind him and expect him to catch it.

Is it really a bad decision to throw an INT on that last play of the Steelers game? He could just throw a worm burner and save his stats and the criticism. You have to consider the position he's been put in. He's made enough plays to win games. All of those INTs have been under duress and in situations where everyone in the stadium knows when and where the pass has to go.  That makes it a lot easier for a defense.

Like I said earlier, a Hail Mary has a higher probability of success than the final situation against the Steelers. In the normal concept of the game, where the defense doesn't dictate that you pass, he's had 2-3 INTs.

you play to win the game, not have the best stats...I have no problem with trying to score there...i have a problem with a number of other throws...but not that one.

In that situation he needs to give his guys a chance.  

Did not like the first INT vs. Steelers, just wasn't open and he made a poor decision to go there. The last int was just a play not working. MLF said they practice the play every week, the concept is to run guys into the end zone with the hope that all the DBs follow them, but the Steelers at the goal line never moved.

The first INT was actually a great play by Peterson. The ball was where it was supposed to be but you'll see Peterman is able to legal knock Watson to the ground because he had better position. After the deflection Watson is where he usually is, on the ground, and Peterson follows through standing up.

MLF really lit into Watson publicly this week which is rare for any coach to do but he's probably tired of people piling on Love when he knows what the problem is.

It's just time to stay away from Watson and play Wicks more.

@Pikes Peak posted:

In that situation he needs to give his guys a chance.  

In that situation what chance is there? They all ran their routes and the pocket was collapsing on Love's left side basically cutting off half the field. It's either throw it or take a sack.

@pkr_north posted:

you play to win the game, not have the best stats...I have no problem with trying to score there...i have a problem with a number of other throws...but not that one.

My point is if he throws incomplete there would be no criticism based on the defense he was throwing against. The reaction to that INT is indicative of what is happening here. The guy makes a ton of great throws to bring them down the field yet gets blamed for an INT throwing against a picket fence of 6 DBs stand on the goalline.

So you throw it deep into the endzone and let the WR high point the pass.  See it almost every week from other teams.

@FLPACKER posted:

Did not like the first INT vs. Steelers, just wasn't open and he made a poor decision to go there. The last int was just a play not working. MLF said they practice the play every week, the concept is to run guys into the end zone with the hope that all the DBs follow them, but the Steelers at the goal line never moved.

I didn't have a problem with that play. He put the ball where he should have. Maybe an inch or two higher and Peterson can't get a finger on it. Then it's either Watson's ball to catch or drop. Even with the tip Watson got his hands on it but tipped it to the other DB. I think if you have Doubs in that same situation he comes down with the ball. He can fight for the ball in traffic, Watson hasn't learned that yet if he ever will.

@PackerRick posted:

I liken comments like that to blaming the loss on the guy that made the last out in a baseball game. In almost every instance Love had given the Packers a late lead and the defense gave it back. Nobody remembers that. These late INTs are really a product of being put in almost impossible situations.

That point is comparable to 2008. Six of ten losses in 2008 were by 4 points or less. And on numerous occasions GB had tied or taken a lead late. A combination of awful kick coverage and bad defense played into many games in which Rodgers and the offense had done their job in the 4th quarter.

It's understandable that people will see the final INT and blame JL. But that blame also requires you to ignore the fact that Barry and his scheme gave up 200 yards on the ground, that a blocked extra point changed the way the offense had to approach the second half, and that a defensive TD was essentially taken away by the league office. Oh, and the brilliant heads up veteran wherewithal of Aaron Jones to stay in bounds and burn nearly half the remaining ticks on the clock. Why would we want to actually do our jobs and need only a FG to tie or a TD to win? INTs notwithstanding, there have been a few 4th quarters this year where Love has looked like the only competent guy on that offense, including his head coach.

@PackerHawk posted:

I didn't have a problem with that play. He put the ball where he should have. Maybe an inch or two higher and Peterson can't get a finger on it. Then it's either Watson's ball to catch or drop. Even with the tip Watson got his hands on it but tipped it to the other DB. I think if you have Doubs in that same situation he comes down with the ball. He can fight for the ball in traffic, Watson hasn't learned that yet if he ever will.

I just went back and looked at the play a number of times ...the ball was slightly behind Watson, Peterson made a good play, IMHO Watson is getting a bad wrap for this play , he didn't have a chance to fight for the ball. It was single coverage, he is taught to run to the corner of the end zone if the safety was over the top (he was more to the middle), that would key for him to stop short for back shoulder. So with Watson running to the back of the end zone IDK how people expected him to stop and come back to the ball. If the ball had been thrown 8-10 inches farther I think it would have been a TD.

@ammo posted:

So you throw it deep into the endzone and let the WR high point the pass.  See it almost every week from other teams.

We do what we do....

Packer Rick is the lady who gets beat by her husband and then defends his actions.  

“He just has so much stress officer, it’s not his fault!!  Jordan I love you!”

@artis posted:

That point is comparable to 2008. Six of ten losses in 2008 were by 4 points or less. And on numerous occasions GB had tied or taken a lead late. A combination of awful kick coverage and bad defense played into many games in which Rodgers and the offense had done their job in the 4th quarter.

It's understandable that people will see the final INT and blame JL. But that blame also requires you to ignore the fact that Barry and his scheme gave up 200 yards on the ground, that a blocked extra point changed the way the offense had to approach the second half, and that a defensive TD was essentially taken away by the league office. Oh, and the brilliant heads up veteran wherewithal of Aaron Jones to stay in bounds and burn nearly half the remaining ticks on the clock. Why would we want to actually do our jobs and need only a FG to tie or a TD to win? INTs notwithstanding, there have been a few 4th quarters this year where Love has looked like the only competent guy on that offense, including his head coach.

We’re not blaming him for the loss.   In fact, most of us don’t care if we won or lost.   We are blaming him for consistently being late, under throwing passes, and throwing picks in the 4th quarter.  He’s shown a glimpse here and there, but it’s been more bad than good.

Does that contribute to the losses.  Absolutely.   Is it the only or main reason.  Absolutely not.

@BrainDed posted:

We’re not blaming him for the loss.  

Who is we?

@BrainDed posted:

Packer Rick is the lady who gets beat by her husband and then defends his actions.  

“He just has so much stress officer, it’s not his fault!!  Jordan I love you!”

Leave it to you to be an expert on wife beating.

Whoah

When you respond twice to the same message someone is living rent free in your head.

@PackerHawk posted:

When you respond twice to the same message someone is living rent free in your head.

I think you might

@PackerHawk posted:

When you respond twice to the same message someone is living rent free in your head.

Be on to something

it wasn’t a fair catch by the way

@BrainDed posted:

We’re not blaming him for the loss.   In fact, most of us don’t care if we won or lost.   We are blaming him for consistently being late, under throwing passes, and throwing picks in the 4th quarter.  He’s shown a glimpse here and there, but it’s been more bad than good.

Does that contribute to the losses.  Absolutely.   Is it the only or main reason.  Absolutely not.

He's had a bunch of second half drives including fourth qtrs that seem to go unnoticed as well by "we." On Sunday he made throws throughout the second half on third and fourth downs. I haven't seen anyone deny his accuracy being an issue. It is an issue. But if you're basing the judgement on fourth qtr mistakes, go look at Rodgers at the end of games a year ago. The most glaring examples were both Lions games, but he didn't exactly light things up when they needed him to. Are those same issues nonexistent just a year later? Watson is facing scrutiny for his crummy route running and unwillingness to compete for balls. AJ pretty much single handedly doomed the final drive the other day. It was Love making plays the whole second half that had them in position to be in striking distance.

Most of us watched Brett Favre make game killing throws for most of his career. It sounds like people think Love is just chucking up wounded ducks the way Favre did for years. The way Rodgers did a season ago. There are a handful of those type of throws, but it doesn't encompass the situation of all the ints. I'd much rather a guy be decisive with what he sees and correct a mistake later. The last two weeks he's made better decisions and it resulted in a string of average to good throws for substantial games in tough spots.

Things should get better now that things are showing up in the numbers.

...............................

In the past four games, Reed has caught 15 of the 18 passes thrown his way for 207 yards and two touchdowns. Musgrave has caught 11 of the 16 passes thrown his way for 154 yards and a touchdown in the same span. The two have combined for six passes of 20 or more yards in the past two games.

Wicks also has been emerging. He has caught 10 of the past 13 passes thrown his way for 145 yards, including gains of 32, 18, 17 and 17.

It’s a big contrast to No. 1 receiver Watson, who has caught just 9 of 22 (41%) passes thrown his way for 93 yards in the past four games. His arrow has been trending downward while the rookies are climbing steadily.

I am getting very close to the point of throwing my lot behind Jordan Love as the QB in 2024 (and I know that means there will be some sort of contractual commitment to him beyond 2024).

He is developing a real rapport with Reed, Wicks, and Musgrave, even without much of a contribution from the running game.

I am not convinced Love is a QB who can take GB to a Super Bowl, but he has shown sufficient progress to merit another year unless he takes a step backward over the final 7 games.

Furthermore, the team has significant needs elsewhere, so going back to the well on another QB in 2024 would not be vey prudent.

His teammates love him. That alone is a huge plus and gives him a ton of slack. There's no Zach Wilson situation where more than half the team is rooting for the backup.

We should be back to the Favre days of a 3 QB roster though, imo. Grab another guy somewhere after the 1st round to develop and compete with Clifford while Love shows if he's worth a long term investment. Preferably a guy with accuracy as a strength and a different flaw that needs fixing. Until we're sure there's a franchise guy keep swinging, imo.

Sweet. Jesus. pic.twitter.com/V6j2dbDQPJ

— Aaron Nagler (@AaronNagler) November 20, 2023

@H5 posted:

Sweet. Jesus. pic.twitter.com/V6j2dbDQPJ

— Aaron Nagler (@AaronNagler) November 20, 2023

That was a great play and throw. Evades the pressure and then completely turned his body to square his shoulders to the receiver who was behind him.

Accurate pass with enough juice to get to Wicks before the D could react/change direction. I know they are taught to never throw a pass late and back across the middle but Wicks found a nice soft spot to sit down and present a good target so it really  wasn't a dangerous pass. Good job by both players. Wicks looks like he has the tools and instincts to be a good one.

That had to be intended for Kraft.

Let's talk in 7 weeks. He's made huge strides the last two games. His supporting cast is improving too.

Love made some throws, and this was one, that made me say, "This guy might be okay." When he just rips it, he does pretty well. When he thinks about it, like the long pass to Doubs to start, he lofts it and allows the DB to get back. The missed pass to Musgrave was just a bit off, but I like that he didn't throw it a mile high.

Can't throw deep https://t.co/k67CidakUT

— Peter Bukowski (@Peter_Bukowski) November 21, 2023

What’s the rushing yard comparison? Completion percentage? Is one able to lead a game winning drive more than the other?

No doubt Love is his equal, the stats prove it.

Think the W-L record of the Eagles is a much bigger factor than any individual stats are.