McCarthy NOT Extended...(Dead Man Walking?)

Packdog posted:

What's amazing to me is that NFL coaches are calling or visiting Lincoln Riley to get ideas. They are calling to talk shop and learn new ideas....the guy is brilliant. This is not something you would have thought could happen in the past with the huge difference between the college and pro games. Not any more !! Guys like Doug Peterson, Josh McDniels are known to pick Rileys brain.

Have a sneaking suspicion that Mike McCarthy is not one of the coaches visiting Norman. He's happy running plays out of the 80s WC Offensive Paul Hackett playbook. Ugh  

 

They'll never do it (hoping they prove me wrong). But No reason to change DC. Riley has to accept that, pay him more to soothe him if it bothers the guy.

Part of what’s both right and wrong about the Packers is the ownership structure. A good single owner would have shown McCarthy and TT the door a long time ago. 

The single owner in DAL has kept that GM a long time.

Green and Gold posted:

Part of what’s both right and wrong about the Packers is the ownership structure. A good single owner would have shown McCarthy and TT the door a long time ago. 

Maybe. Look at Pittsburg, Cincinnati, Dallas - all owned by single owner with long time head coaches.

PA green & gold posted:

Green and Gold posted:

Part of what’s both right and wrong about the Packers is the ownership structure. A good single owner would have shown McCarthy and TT the door a long time ago. 

Maybe. Look at Pittsburg, Cincinnati, Dallas - all owned by single owner with long time head coaches.

He did stipulate 'good' owner......Rooneys good, Jerry not.

My thought was that McCarthy would have already been shown the door by an owner in GB because of his performance over the last couple of years but the structure in GB isn't as demanding as long as the money keeps rolling in.

Green and Gold posted:

Part of what’s both right and wrong about the Packers is the ownership structure. A good single owner would have shown McCarthy and TT the door a long time ago. 

A long time ago? You mean after all of those losing seasons?? 

Green and Gold posted:

My thought was that McCarthy would have already been shown the door by an owner in GB because of his performance over the last couple of years but the structure in GB isn't as demanding as long as the money keeps rolling in.

Jason Garrett. 

McCarthy on message: We fully understand where we are. We need to win on the road. That's something we haven't done. It's a tough place to play there. Second time around in the division is a fun time in my experience. This is all about beating the Vikings. We have to win.

— Tom Silverstein (@TomSilverstein) November 19, 2018

Urgency

Just a question that I'm genuinely curious about, after their SB win in 2009 and before their 2017 season where they went 11-5, did you feel the same way about Sean Payton that you do about McCarthy? By that I mean did you think Payton's message had gotten stale, his organization skills were poor, and NO should have moved on? Before 2017, Payton had losing seasons 3 out of the previous 4 years despite having a HOF QB that was still having success. NO was extremely patient, infused a ton of talent on defense and it made a huge difference. This is not to say MM shouldn't be fired, but if he is retained through his final contract year and Gute can infuse some more talent (specifically at Safety, OL, and pass rush) I do think it's possible for him to right the ship. 

I'll leave that for the Saints fans...I will say Marvin Lewis is way past his best by date.

Actually, yes. I thought Payton was done in NO. He looked it, the team played like it, and I had him out the door. It has been a surprise to see NO jump back into the thick of things last year, and they might have had a Superb Owl if not for a dumb rookie mistake. 

As for Marvin, sheesh. He's past his use-by date by several years. Cincy is just an AFC version of GB without a great QB.

Don't be knocking the Red Rifle!

Marvin doesn’t have a ring as a HC either.

Grave Digger posted:

Just a question that I'm genuinely curious about, after their SB win in 2009 and before their 2017 season where they went 11-5, did you feel the same way about Sean Payton that you do about McCarthy? By that I mean did you think Payton's message had gotten stale, his organization skills were poor, and NO should have moved on? Before 2017, Payton had losing seasons 3 out of the previous 4 years despite having a HOF QB that was still having success. NO was extremely patient, infused a ton of talent on defense and it made a huge difference. This is not to say MM shouldn't be fired, but if he is retained through his final contract year and Gute can infuse some more talent (specifically at Safety, OL, and pass rush) I do think it's possible for him to right the ship. 

I asked the same question weeks ago.

Grave Digger posted:

Just a question that I'm genuinely curious about, after their SB win in 2009 and before their 2017 season where they went 11-5, did you feel the same way about Sean Payton that you do about McCarthy? By that I mean did you think Payton's message had gotten stale, his organization skills were poor, and NO should have moved on? Before 2017, Payton had losing seasons 3 out of the previous 4 years despite having a HOF QB that was still having success. NO was extremely patient, infused a ton of talent on defense and it made a huge difference. This is not to say MM shouldn't be fired, but if he is retained through his final contract year and Gute can infuse some more talent (specifically at Safety, OL, and pass rush) I do think it's possible for him to right the ship. 

The key difference is that Drew Brees maintained a good relationship with Payton through their lean years. Their offense always remained strong (especially the passing attack). It's obvious at this point that Rodgers and McCarthy aren't getting along. The offense is stagnant and mediocre in a year where offensive records are being shattered. It's a very bad look for Coach "QB Guru" McYinzer.

So as long as the HC and QB are getting along then we can excuse losing records in 3/4 years and no playoff wins since 2009? Even MM doesn’t have a record like that, both have HOF QBs. Brees is a HOF QB in Rodgers class, why couldn’t he overcome everything else like Rodgers has? I don’t think Payton is a better coach or their relationship carried them through lean years, I think Mickey Loomis got his head out of his ass and started getting him talent. Drafting high in 3 out of 4 years didn’t hurt either. 

Also we actually have no clue what the QB/HC relationship is in GB. They don’t have to be best friends. Holmgren was never tight with Favre. 

Grave Digger posted:

Drafting high in 3 out of 4 years didn’t hurt either. 

This definitely is why we’re talking about the Saints. Of course they hit, but better picks higher definitely helps... 

Surprised to hear Favre stick up for MM on his radio show yesterday. Said something to the effect of "MM is an outstanding football coach and I wouldn't write them off". With MM being the impedious for him leaving, I was surprised at Bert's maturity. 

Some guys escape puberty later than others.

Grave Digger posted:

Also we actually have no clue what the QB/HC relationship is in GB. They don’t have to be best friends. Holmgren was never tight with Favre. 

Since everybody loves referencing BB/TB as the shining example, they never had the warm fuzzies either.

The Saints have also hit on some lower round 1 and later picks also: Cam Jordan (24 - 2011), Mark Ingram (28 - 2011), Terron Armstead (75 - 2013), Michael Thomas (47 - 2016), Ryan Ramczyk (32 - 2017), Alvin Kamara (67 - 2017), Alex Anzalone (76 - 2017). Really Marshon Lattimore and Sheldon Rankins are the only high picks they've gotten something out of, but both those guys (especially Lattimore) have been difference makers. 

Maybe we should let them draft the guy we got in the trade. 

Hungry5 posted:

The single owner in DAL has kept that GM a long time.

And his red headed darling. 

He's not necessarily wrong, but probably an oversimplified look at analytics.  

This reminds me of a criticism I've heard of Mike McCarthy, one that rarely was discussed. The idea is he relied too much on analytics in his play calling. Analytics suggest big plays win games. So you throw deep. https://t.co/5bZjDkDS77

— Ryan Wood (@ByRyanWood) January 3, 2019

I also find it hard to believe because analytics could not have supported his assistant coach choices.

DUMP OFFS!!!  IGNORES THE SHORT GAME!!

Long plays are all-in or all-out. If it hits, yay! you're 40 yards down the field or even in the EZ. Miss and you now face longer odds of getting a first down. Long plays are also tougher on your D. Hit a couple in a row and a drive may last three minutes or less. Miss them and the drive may burn two minutes or less. Either way, the D is on the field a lot faster and not getting much rest. I'd rather have those five- or six-minute drives that exhaust a D and break the other team's back -- slowly, and with great pain.  

What you said.

Fandame posted:

I'd rather have those five- or six-minute drives that exhaust a D and break the other team's back -- slowly, and with great pain.  

Bull

****ing

shit.

I'll take touchdowns.  Chunk plays and 3 yard gains on 3rd and 2.  Mix it up and never be predictable.  The best offense can execute anything, the problem lies in relying on one thing.  

Just win baby!  90 yard scoring play or a 8 minute drive.

El-Ka-Bong posted:

Fandame posted:

I'd rather have those five- or six-minute drives that exhaust a D and break the other team's back -- slowly, and with great pain.  

Bull

****ing

shit.

I'll take touchdowns.  Chunk plays and 3 yard gains on 3rd and 2.  Mix it up and never be predictable.  The best offense can execute anything, the problem lies in relying on one thing.  

Well, yeah. Of course, you're unpredictable and don't rely on one thing. I'm not saying three-yards-and-a-cloud-of-dust on every drive. But neither am I saying let's have a just-go-long-and-I'll-heave-it-to-ya offense. I want ball control, control the LOS, take what's given, don't make mistakes -- you know, the usual perfection.   Those drives usually eat at least three, four or more minutes every time --  and the other team's O is on the bench. (I do not like the pinball offensive games ala Rams v Chiefs (54-51) earlier this year.) I especially like those longer, will-sapping drives in the fourth quarter when we're ahead.

https://sports.yahoo.com/marce...eason-031440680.html

This is a problem. 

And let me be clear... I’m not talking about the ****ing coach. 

Pakrz posted:

https://sports.yahoo.com/marce...eason-031440680.html

This is a problem. 

Not sure why the problem says, "former tight end".  As far as I know Lewis is still a Packer. 

Yup, that's about what I've been thinking/saying: that Rodgers had an awful lot to do with MM's firing by his play on the field. I recall reading that someone said MM could call the same play three times in a game and never see it run even once. Sorry, but that's not how a team player plays. Yes, Rodgers is super-smart and might be able to call a game. But then again, if he's been ignoring the playcalls as much as Lewis makes it out to be, Rodgers is responsible for a big part of the team's record. We may never know the true extent of it, but with this out in the open, it will be interesting to see if it influences any of the coaches being interviewed and/or how they address it. 

And if MM is successful in his next gig, then this makes Rodgers look pretty bad. If MM isn't successful, then the opposite is true. Either way, no one wins.

So Rodgers sees the defense and changes the play to a 40 yard completion that every person on this site wildly cheered as it happened but sprinkle in a little ****ing back story and he’s a ****ing problem because he won’t take the 4 yard swing pass to the running back that everyone ****ing thinks he should have been taking all along because he’s a greedy stat whore. 

This pick and choose bullshit to make a case has to end. This offense was  ****ing grinding to death. It was a shit plan with shit coaching that every  ****ing team in Football figured out. Rodgers could have played the loyal soldier in this shit show until he was 42 and retired with nothing more than his 1 Lombardi and then everyone would go straight back to MM wasting the greatest ****ing QB talent the NFL has ever seen. 

**** me this shit is getting tired. McCarthy had to get the **** lost. He. Was. The. Problem. 

Rodgers is an all-world QB and one of the greatest, but I don't want to ignore the warts either. MM's plan was stale, and I'm not ignoring that either. Breakups like this are never one person's fault. 

Other than that, how did you like the play Mrs. Lincoln?  

Maybe the play Rodgers changed was a cross to Marcedes which could have been his 4th reception in 2018 but Rodgers changed it....

Which could become an entire separate discussion about the complete and total ****ing misuse of Marcedes by MM in 2018 but TE misuse by MM is one tired mother ****ing story. 

Play calling has been an issue for MM forever.    Let's not pretend like Rodgers saying **** that to an idiotic play call is what brought Rome down. 

ChilliJon posted:

So Rodgers sees the defense and changes the play to a 40 yard completion that every person on this site wildly cheered as it happened but sprinkle in a little ****ing back story and he’s a ****ing problem because he won’t take the 4 yard swing pass to the running back that everyone ****ing thinks he should have been taking all along because he’s a greedy stat whore. 

This pick and choose bullshit to make a case has to end. This offense was  ****ing grinding to death. It was a shit plan with shit coaching that every  ****ing team in Football figured out. Rodgers could have played the loyal soldier in this shit show until he was 42 and retired with nothing more than his 1 Lombardi and then everyone would go straight back to MM wasting the greatest ****ing QB talent the NFL has ever seen. 

**** me this shit is getting tired. McCarthy had to get the **** lost. He. Was. The. Problem. 

God, I think you would blow Rodgers the first chance you got.  You listen to the coach period.  Anyone who has played a team sport knows this.  Rodgers has tons of talent, but also has a big ****ing ego that is not helping his play.