He sure had a game against Wisconsin.
phaedrus posted:I tend to think the Packer's personnel is near the bottom of the entire league.
I'd call it closer to mediocre and it's the result of some pretty lackluster drafting. Hopefully the new guy will pick it up a few notches.
Players that seem to be flourishing elsewhere do support the belief the drafted talent may not be as mediocre as we think due to the mediocre coaching they’ve received.
Lets see how guys like Fackrell, Ryan, Rollins, Dix, Josh Jones, Lowry, Odom do with a new game plan and direction.
PackerPatrick posted:Packdog posted:— Mike Daniels (@Mike_Daniels76) March 23, 2018
I get the Iowa love, but this guy is moving down the draft boards.
Maybe if here, Big Mike could motivate him some. Critics have mentioned that Jackson seems to lack it. I am not sure I buy that based just on the combine alone. But, he is not as fast as expected. At least not for pick #14.
His 40 wasn’t great, but I think I saw that he tested in the 75th percentile in everything else at the combine. I don’t know if he’s worth the 14th pick or not, but he will end up being a good pro.
I agree. I think we'll have better players at #14 especially if 4 QB's get drafted before #14.
If he's there in round 2, it's a possibility.
Only real knock on Jackson I've heard is the speed, and some of the so-called experts don't seem that concerned about it.
There's speed and then there's game speed. What's his game speed? That's what counts.
He looks like he’s going to be a good corner in the NFL. I just dont think he’s BPA at 14. Now, if Gute decides to drop back to say 18’ish and pick up a guy like Jackson, Wynn, or Connor Williams and grab an extra second for his troubles.....
I’ve completely given up my dream of Quenton Nelson at RG in GB. I’m all about what it might take to go up to get Tremaine Edmunds now. He’s a missing piece to the defensive puzzle that might be worth the acquisition cost. Might have to get to 7 though because he has Chicago at 8 written all over him.
I think the Bears are keyed in on Derwin James & Edmunds is going to SF at #9 overall.
A healthy Rodgers means it’s going to be a while before you catch a sniff of a guy like Edmunds. So do you pull the trigger or let the draft fall to you?
TT let's the draft fall to him & selects Aaron Rodgers.😁
As Boris said, take the best player available at any position, especially now that Rodgers is 34 years old. I don't care if it's a QB if one of the top rated guys slips and you have him at the top of your board.
Rodgers was not a need pick in 2005. Randall Cobb was not a need pick in 2011. Same thing for Davante Adams in 2014. Those have all worked out well.
When the Packers have gotten in the most trouble is when they clearly draft for need. The raft of DB picks over the last 5 years by TT was a problem, just like Ron Wolf drafting DB 1-2-3 in 1999 because of the need to respond to Randy Moss. Or course, one could argue if the defensive coaching staff had properly evaluated Casey Hayward and Micah Hyde, then TT's drafts from the period would have looked a lot better.
Is there one position on the Packers that you look at right now (other than starting QB and starting LT) and think they don't really need to improve at? I don't think so, take the BPA.
I can pass on a running back with a clear conscience
BPA at 14 should be a difference maker no matter what position he plays. Love to see either Nelson or Chubb tumble to 14. Either our OL or a pass rusher hole would be solved.
I also think they are in pretty decent shape at DL.
The BPA philosophy is fine and I would agree that if they were in better shape defensively I think drafting a QB would be ok. But, the Packers in my opinion have HUGE holes at CB, need linebackers, and edge rushers so if a QB falls to them I don't think you can go that route. I think the best thing for them to do is pick the BPA available on defense, pick more defense and when in doubt more defense.
Or find somebody who still wants/needs QB and deal for a starting CB or more draft picks, even into 2019 draft.
Fandame posted:There's speed and then there's game speed. What's his game speed? That's what counts.
And is he aware of what route the WR is going to run, and if so can he keep u with the WR?
MichiganPacker2 posted:. Or course, one could argue if the defensive coaching staff had properly evaluated Casey Hayward and Micah Hyde, then TT's drafts from the period would have looked a lot better.
No, they wouldn't. Hyde wasn't improperly evaluated, he was the third-best safety on a team with utter drek at CB.
At this stage of ARod's career, and the current state of the team, I think the Packers don't look at QB until 4th round or later. No need to have a 1st round pick ride the bench for 4 years.
Some needs are so obvious (CB/DB, WR), it's hard not to pick to cover them. Others (LB, OL, possibly TE) still need attention, so a pick from any of those groups would do just fine.
I hope they look at RB in the later rounds or at UFDA. Williams and Mays may make it superfluous....IF they can stay healthy. I'd much rather have Monty, Cobb, or others taking the occasional snap as opposed to taking starter reps.
Herschel posted:MichiganPacker2 posted:. Or course, one could argue if the defensive coaching staff had properly evaluated Casey Hayward and Micah Hyde, then TT's drafts from the period would have looked a lot better.
No, they wouldn't. Hyde wasn't improperly evaluated, he was the third-best safety on a team with utter drek at CB.
Good point.
Reference Jackson's speed:
I have long believed that the NFL combine doesn't even tell half the story. Josh Jackson can play football and play it well. So he's not worth the pick at #14 because he lacks speed? Joe Haden ran a 4.57 second 40 and he turned out ok I think.
How many examples do we have to see each year before we realize that combine numbers don't mean you can play football and shouldn't dictate your draft position. What matters is how you perform on a football field. Jackson performed.
Conversely, lots of guys perform exceptionally at the college level but lack that bit of speed/height/strength/whatever to make it big at the pro level. We've seen it pretty often with Heisman winners. The Combine gives a comparison point.
Jackson actually reminds me a lot of Casey Hayward. Exceptional ball skills and instincts. Not a burner by any stretch but he has NFL speed.
We could do a lot worse than him at 14
Herschel posted:Conversely, lots of guys perform exceptionally at the college level but lack that bit of speed/height/strength/whatever to make it big at the pro level. We've seen it pretty often with Heisman winners. The Combine gives a comparison point.
Jamar Fletcher is a great example.
Tschmack posted:Jackson actually reminds me a lot of Casey Hayward. Exceptional ball skills and instincts. Not a burner by any stretch but he has NFL speed.
We could do a lot worse than him at 14
He's 2-3 inches taller than Hayward. He's more of a potential Richard Sherman type. Jackson and Sherman both ran 4.56 at their combines.
As they say. Look at the tape. The guy can play football. Put him opposite king and the packers defensive backfield just got a lot better. He is better than a lot of faster definsuve backs for sure.
Football speed v combine speed. Give me football speed.
Fandame posted:Football speed v combine speed. Give me football speed.
Jerry Rice. 40 time of 4.71 coming out of college. He did OK.
El-Ka-Bong posted:I can pass on a running back with a clear conscience
I wouldn't pass if Saquon Barkley dropped to them.
MichiganPacker2 posted:Fandame posted:Football speed v combine speed. Give me football speed.
Jerry Rice. 40 time of 4.71 coming out of college. He did OK.
Rice could cut on a dime without losing stride, his lateral quickness was ridiculous. Jackson's 40 alone is only a bit of a concern for covering deep, his agility drills were pretty similar to Randall's (but slower deep) and weaker than Hayward's and he looked stiff trying to open his hips. His instincts were enough in college where it didn't cost him, but I don't blame teams for being concerned about him in the pros. That could be enough for him to drop a bit, but I'd guess the very furthest would be early second (which isn't really very far).
MichiganPacker2 posted:Fandame posted:Football speed v combine speed. Give me football speed.
Jerry Rice. 40 time of 4.71 coming out of college. He did OK.
Rice 4.7 time is often repeated but never substantiated. Gil Brandt claims they never clocked him below a 4.5. Watch his early highlights....there is no way he was a 4.7.
So...that was the Niner's spreading lies so Rice would "fall" to them?
The draft isn't about how players perform at the combine.....the draft is about knowing where the other 31 teams have the players YOU WANT, ranked.
If 31 teams have Josh Jackson off their draft board but the Packers still like him, they can get him (theoretically) with their last 7th rounder.
This is exactly why Quentin Rollins got drafted in late 2 & Ozzie Newsome was pissed off. Because Ozzie wanted him in middle 3, before the Packers pick in late 3.
Like TT always said, "Stay true to your board."
...and that is what the draft is all about.
Pakrz posted:Reference Jackson's speed:
Josh Jackson Combine:
40 yd Dash - 4.56
20 yd shuttle- 4.03
3 cone drill- 6.86
Bench Press- 18
Vertical - 38
Broad jump - 123
Josh Norman Combine:
40 yd Dash - 4.61
20 yd shuttle- 4.23
3 cone drill- 7.09
Bench Press- 14
Vertical - 33
Broad jump - 124
Josh Norman has been a very good corner. He and Josh Jackson are very similar in size and if you compare the combine numbers, Jackson is faster, quicker, stronger, and more explosive. Coming out of Coastal Carolina and not having eye popping numbers will get you drafted in the late rounds(5th)....but he turned out more than ok. Jackson has a leg up due to playing at a higher profile school and has amazing tape.
Trust the tape !!!
Josh Norman has NOT been close to a "shut down" corner. He's a terrific zone corner but gets exposed in man.
Quinten Rollins:
40 4.57
20 Shuttle 4.28
3-cone 7.10
In the top of the first, I'd prefer someone with good tape AND measurables. I'd also prefer an edge guy because that position is MUCH thinner and my preference would be Edmunds or Vander Esch.
