If Gute feels the same way, we may see a trade up because they have so many picks this year
trade up and draft Nelson and I'll smile
Packdog posted:Brainwashed Boris posted:#14 overall is "no man's land"
Here's one way to look at it. The following players are almost guaranteed to be gone before #14 (not to mention, there will be a team that does something stupid)
- Sam Darnold - QB
- Bradley Chubb - Edge
- Josh Allen - QB
- Josh Rosen - QB
- Quenton Nelson - OL
- Saquan Barkley - RB
- Minkah Fitzpatrick - S
- **Baker Mayfield - QB(QB desperate team will jump up)
5 players from the list below will be available to the Pack :
- Derwin James - S
- Roquon Smith - LB
- Tremaine Edmunds - LB
- Marcus Davenport - Edge
- Denzel Ward - CB
- Mike McGlinchey -OT
- Harold Landry - Edge
- Josh Jackson - CB
- Vita Vea - DT
- Calvin Ridley - WR
Maybe someone else ???
Seems like they have a very good chance to get a good player at #14
this is the way I was looking at it, so from this point - pick the highest rated guy on your board. (period) - if the scores are the same between 2 guys, go to need. If the big names happen to be gone on defense, I really think they will draft ridley. I also happen to think they will package picks and move up in the 2nd or 3rd rounds...but not first.
NO had an outstanding draft and hopefully Gutekunst can replicate what they did. Way too many draft misses from the Packers of late.
I'm not so sure it was "draft misses" as much as it was "mis-use of talent"
Coaches need to put players in the proper position to succeed.
I'm not certain that was happening. Let's see what happens in 2018
Brainwashed Boris posted:I'm not so sure it was "draft misses" as much as it was "mis-use of talent"
Coaches need to put players in the proper position to succeed.
I'm not certain that was happening. Let's see what happens in 2018
I think it was a perfect storm last year. The coaches (primarily Capers) put players in a bad position with terrible schemes. And then factor in the injuries and thin roster and the team had its complete mess.
2018 to me might be one of the most pivotal years we have seen in awhile. The team has to build up its roster and get some player makers. I am not saying they will take a big downward spiral but I do believe this year is extremely vital.
Two guys I really hope they look at in Rounds 2 and 3 are Colorado CB Isaiah Oliver and Louisville CB Jaire Alexander. Both guys have that swagger and confidence you see in lock-down CBs and they seem to have the skills to match. Both are aggressive man cover corners who attack the ball contest every throw. I wouldn't be upset if they took both actually, Oliver in R2 and Alexander in R3.
Brainwashed Boris posted:I'm not so sure it was "draft misses" as much as it was "mis-use of talent"
Coaches need to put players in the proper position to succeed.
I'm not certain that was happening. Let's see what happens in 2018
Is it misusing talent if none of it is qualified to play cornerback?
Grave Digger posted:Two guys I really hope they look at in Rounds 2 and 3 are Colorado CB Isaiah Oliver and Louisville CB Jaire Alexander. Both guys have that swagger and confidence you see in lock-down CBs and they seem to have the skills to match. Both are aggressive man cover corners who attack the ball contest every throw. I wouldn't be upset if they took both actually, Oliver in R2 and Alexander in R3.
Of the corners I really like, Oliver will probably go the highest but I feel he's in no-man's-land for the Packers as 14 is too high and 45 is too low. I think he'll be next after Ward and Jackson, with maybe Carlton Davis in that mix. I'd love to come out of the draft with Oliver/Davis, Isaac Yiadom and Quenton Meeks (higher) or Michael Joseph (lower) and knock the tar out of receivers before they ever get in their routes.
As for Alexander, I wonder if Gutekunst would break the "Green Bay Golden Rule" for cornerback minimum height.
I like Carlton Davis anywhere after round 1: From NFL.com
BOTTOM LINE
" Davis' combination of height, weight, length and ball skills make him a nuisance that college wide receivers could do without on Saturdays. Davis has some struggles mirroring routes in space and is best as a full-time press corner who is able to use his length and strength to take wideouts out of their game. Davis plays with confidence and some edge and was able to show and prove against NFL-caliber talent over the last three years. In the right scheme, he could become a high-impact starter."
DH13 posted:I've seen mocks with Alexander in RD1.
Interesting, I’ve not seen that. His sub-4.4 40 could have something to do with that. He reminds me of Marcus Peters to some extent, with his confidence and the way he attacks the ball, don’t know if he has the same amount of baggage.
Walter Football had us taking him at 14, last week.
NFL.com on Alexander:
BOTTOM LINE
Twitchy and quick, Alexander is an instinctive cornerback with the ability to anticipate routes and the quickness to close on throws and make plays on the ball. He tape in 2017 was uneven due to issues with a sprained knee which could raise concerns over his durability considering his slender build. When healthy, he has the potential to become a second cornerback, but teams may view him as a full time nickel cornerback who is able to avoid the rigors of excessive run support.
I'm sure there are dozen other takes on Alexander but that one doesn't suggest much of a ceiling.
Floridarob posted:Feeling Josh Jackson would be an ok pic. A 6-2 corner back that has long arms and can play man to man. He may not have sub 4.5 speed but the tape says he plays fast enough. The defense could do a lot worse.
It would be worth drafting Jackson just to play him against Cousins for two, maybe three games a year. Visions of INTs dancing through his head!
DH13 posted:Walter Football had us taking him at 14, last week.
I've seen two mocks where Minkah Fitzpatrick goes to the Packers. A lot of teams trading to grab a QB made several players fall a bit. Fitzpatrick fell to 14.
I can't see it happening, but Fitzpatrick at 14 would be a gift
DH13 posted:I've seen mocks with Alexander in RD1.
I've seen mocks with Alexander going to the Packers at 14, as well. Most of the mocks seem to be based on what the team, in question, needs. None that I've seen has taken the BPA approach. I'd like to see one mock posted with BPA in mind.
Fitzpatrick is a great example of a guy available at 14 that shouldn’t ever be available at 14. That would be a very nice development.
I figure someone unexpected will surprise and jump into the top 13. Despite all the QB's going early, I can see Lamar Jackson being one of those guys who goes much earlier than anticipated. De'Ron Payne is another who I can't imagine falls as far as all the mocks have him falling. But that is it really, mocks don't matter when teams are staying true to their boards.
I also feel Courtland Sutton and DJ Moore will be off the board before Calvin Ridley.
ChilliJon posted:Fitzpatrick is a great example of a guy available at 14 that shouldn’t ever be available at 14. That would be a very nice development.
Yeah that would be outstanding to get him at 14. To me he was THE alpha on a defense full of playmakers.
Lamar Jackson to me is a player to watch in this draft. He is either going to go pretty early to a team that needs a QB like the Jets, Bills, or Browns. Or he will slip and we will be saying "wow its round 4 and he is still there?"
I agree with Grave Digger on Fitzpatrick. If I am the Packers and he is available I make that pick in about 2 and half seconds. I hate Bama with every ounce of me but I would be happy to have pretty much any of their defense players in GB.
Has Fitzpatrick been brought up on charges or something ? Not going to be available at 14.
Packdog posted:Has Fitzpatrick been brought up on charges or something ? Not going to be available at 14.
Every year a great player or two falls inexplicably....
From USA Today article:CB/S Minkah Fitzpatrick, Alabama: Long considered the consensus top cover guy, Fitzpatrick has been losing steam in mock drafts. Some question whether he can play on the boundary or whether his slot/safety role has diminished his value versus a pure cover corner like Denzel Ward. Even so, Fitzpatrick has dropped all the way to the Packers in recent mocks because there’s been so much movement up top with the quarterback position. If that’s the case, the Packers would love a guy like Fitzpatrick, who could come in an start immediately.
Packers got the best player in the draft at #24 and middle-round talent at #5. Never know how it's all going to shake out and I'm just hoping in three years we can look back at Gutekunst's first draft as a resounding success.
And that re-do of the draft where we got Bahktiari had him as the number one pick. It's a crap shoot.
Grave Digger posted:ChilliJon posted:Fitzpatrick is a great example of a guy available at 14 that shouldn’t ever be available at 14. That would be a very nice development.
Yeah that would be outstanding to get him at 14. To me he was THE alpha on a defense full of playmakers.
HaHa fell to 21 - Bulaga fell - Rodgers obviously fell.
A good football player will be available at #14. Not certain an elite football player will be there.
Josh Norris Mock Draft has the Packers passing on Minkah Fitz and opting for Harold Landry. Love Landry's speed off the edge, but if the lines of communication between coaching staff and FO are truly open then I can't imagine the coaches would prefer more of a project in Landry over a complete player like Fitz. Fitz fills a major hole in coverage is just a dam good football player. I wouldn't be unhappy with Landry, he's an outstanding speed rusher, but that hole in the back end of the D is glaring.
Fitz would sure make us forget about Micah Hyde, Casey Hayward and Morgan Burnett
Brainwashed Boris posted:Grave Digger posted:ChilliJon posted:Fitzpatrick is a great example of a guy available at 14 that shouldn’t ever be available at 14. That would be a very nice development.
Yeah that would be outstanding to get him at 14. To me he was THE alpha on a defense full of playmakers.
HaHa fell to 21 - Bulaga fell - Rodgers obviously fell.
A good football player will be available at #14. Not certain an elite football player will be there.
Didn't some scrub named Mathews fall to 26?
YATittle posted:Packdog posted:Has Fitzpatrick been brought up on charges or something ? Not going to be available at 14.
Every year a great player or two falls inexplicably....
From USA Today article:CB/S Minkah Fitzpatrick, Alabama: blah blah
Not Minkah !!! Stop getting our hopes up.
There does seem to be a fuzzy delineation between BPA and CBBTTBPA (could be better than the best player available).
With players like Ward, Smith, Vea, Josh Jackson, Fitz you pretty much know what you are drafting and what you've seen is a pretty solid representation of what you can expect.
Then you have guys like Edmunds, Landry, and Davenport where you really don't have any idea what the ceiling is.
The good news is that there does seem to be a solid consensus of who the 20 best players are in this draft. And GB is getting one of them.
Grave Digger posted:Josh Norris Mock Draft has the Packers passing on Minkah Fitz and opting for Harold Landry. Love Landry's speed off the edge, but if the lines of communication between coaching staff and FO are truly open then I can't imagine the coaches would prefer more of a project in Landry over a complete player like Fitz. Fitz fills a major hole in coverage is just a dam good football player. I wouldn't be unhappy with Landry, he's an outstanding speed rusher, but that hole in the back end of the D is glaring.
I would be rather disappointed were that to happen as I'm not that high on Landry. He's a poor-mans Bruce Irvin or Jared Allen, IMO, and a one-trick pony. Fitzpatrick (as you mention) Derwin James and Roquon Smith all seem to be Alphas on their respective defenses and one of the three would rock, along with Edmunds or Vander Esch. I think James could fill the Charles Woodson role and cover, drop deep or blitz like a linebacker.
I'd like any of those five, though Vea or maybe Ward wouldn't disappoint (I'm just going to go with they have no shot at Barkley, Nelson and Chubb even if five QBs go before them).
I agree, Herschel. I do not see us having any chance at Chubb, Barkley or Nelson unless we trade up to grab one of them. I don't think that is too likely. If Gute should go with BPA at 14, that player, whomever he is, will be a difference maker for us.
As others have pointed out, we should get an immediate starter at #14. Most attractive candidates to me are: Davenport, Jackson, James, Edmunds, or VanderEsch. Of course we really have no idea how Packers view any of these guys.
FLPACKER posted:Of course we really have no idea how Packers view any of these guys.
That's really the key. Nor do we know what the rest of the NFL thinks of all the picks every mock draft has slotted in their RD1's. There is always a player or two that drops, sometimes clear out of RD1. And there are always a couple players taken in RD1 that nobody had slotted there. I don't care who it is as long as he's a blue chipper. 014 does not guarantee that and they really can't afford to swing and miss.
One of the draft guys on Twitter was saying that Landry was rated higher by NFL teams than fans/draft sites believe and Fitzpatrick is rated lower.
It sounds like there was a major disconnect between the coaches and the FO in terms of player acquisition and Murphy is working to correct that. I think Pettine, at least in the short term, will get the guys he wants. Who knows if that means success, but I think finding football players is going to be emphasized over players with “potential”.