Trade Rodgers, trade Bakhtiari, trade Jones, pick up Love's 5th and extend him 2 years. Draft a QB day 2 this spring, suck in '23, and load up for a 3 year run with Love as the guy. Then move on to new QB.
hakuna matata, circle of life.
Before the combine and draft rags, I like this guy. (Of course, I reserve the right to change my mind)
@PackerPatrick posted:Before the combine and draft rags, I like this guy. (Of course, I reserve the right to change my mind)
If they were to trade Love I think heâd be the target with Tanner McKee as the fallback.
@MichiganPacker posted:The Packers have drafted 13 guys since 1992 that have played TE during the Favre/Rodgers era.
One only was a true difference maker at TE in being a guy you had to game plan against to stop (Finley)
Quarless, Franks, David Martin, Chmura, and Jackie Harris were all all solid to good, but not stars by any means.
The others were no better than guys you can find on any practice squad in the league.
It's interesting why TE is so hard to evaluate. Gronk lasted until the second round and he was a star almost immediately (but had to share targets with Aaron Hernandez his first year or so which depressed his rookie stats). Kittle and Kelce were 5th and 3rd rounders.
Kyle Pitts went 4th overall to the Falcons in 2021 and had a big rookie year but doesn't look to be on the Kelce/Gronk/Kittle level.
DeGuara - 3rd round - 2020
Sternberger - 3rd - 2019
Backman - 6th - 2015
RichRod - 3rd - 2014
DJ Williams - 5th - 2011
Ryan Taylor - 7th - 2011
Quarless - 5th - 2010
Finley - 3rd - 2008
Clark Harris - 7th - 2007 - long-snapper for about 13 years in the league
David Martin - 6th - 2001
Bubba Franks - 1st (14th overall) -2000
Chmura - 6th - 1992
Jackie Harris - 4th - 2000
Gronk lasted to the 2nd round due to concerns about his back. Pitts in Atlanta probably saw a decline in targets because Mariota only throws 5 yards downfield. That kid is a stud and if Atlanta wanted to move on from him GB should reach through the phone to sign the deal. Although GB needs a safety and edge rusher the talent aligns to take an OT. Should they trade 12 then with the other 1st get a pass rusher or a safety. Another rookie WR would not help as much as a good vet WR and a semi reliable TE.
I went with the TE over Van Ness, but lucked out with Foskey available in the 3rd round. I reached for Demario Douglas simply because there is no 6th round pick, and he's always gone before our first 7th round pick.
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Love this kid, would give another PR/KR weapon in the toolbelt, also an upgrade to Cobb. But the frustrating thing is, the Packers likely won't give him a sniff because he's only 5'10"
Not as fast as Tyreek Hill, but similar skill set.
A 5th and (2) 7th's comp picks
A T-rex TE, no thank you
He does gobble up everything that comes his way, though...
@"We"-Ka-Bong posted:A T-rex TE, no thank you
Kiper is a fuckstick. Mayer's arms are longer than Kittle and Zach Ertz. He was stretching for something negative to say.
https://www.nfldraftbuzz.com/P...l-Mayer-TE-NotreDame
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**My bad, Kittle's arms are about a half inch longer. I'm sure that's a deal killer.
I am highly skeptical Gurt takes TE in R1...it's a DB, Edge or OT.
Arm length only matter as a blocker. Seems you all are pining for a receiving TE.
This is my Van Ness mock, compared to my Mayer mock. I think I like these results better...
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That's a really good draft...not sure I would take Dell there, but still very good.
@Packmeister posted:That's a really good draft...not sure I would take Dell there, but still very good.
I like the kid...fills a need at PR and can do things Cobb can't right now. But he's too small for Gurt's liking so likely just a fart in the wind.
@Chongo posted:I like the kid...fills a need at PR and can do things Cobb can't right now. But he's too small for Gurt's liking so likely just a fart in the wind.
Depending on what happens with Lazard, we may need a bigger receiver...more the prototype, similar to Watson. But, a good slot guy would make a nice addition, too.
I like Mingo or Hutchinson at WR, plus Demario Douglas... 
@D J posted:Mayer - Hands: 10 (63%*)Arm: 32 5/8 (33%*)Span: 76 (8%)
Stats like this have become a weapon by the media fan boys to justify or shit on certain players. It's the same shit they do trying to be little Billy Beene's with their Sabermetrics.
Sometimes these measurables matter, but sometimes they don't. You can talk yourself out of a really great player and into a really bad one if you rely too heavily on this shit. A friend of mine is a scout in the NFL...done so for 20 years, had a great quote. "Measurables are a good tool, but they are not THE tool."
Tyreek Hill was off a lot of draft boards because of his size. And before people say "yeah but 4.29 in the 40," there are lots of guys who run sub 4.4, and a decent amount that run sub 4.3 that get nothing more than an UDFA cup of coffee with a team. Speed does not equal being an NFL footballer.
Mayer could be the next Jace Sternberger, or the next Travis Kelce...you just don't know until a guy gets into games. Jace had all the glossy numbers, now he's on the All-Couch squad.
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@Chongo posted:Stats like this have become a weapon by the media fan boys to justify or shit on certain players. It's the same shit they do trying to be little Billy Beene's with their Sabermetrics.
Sometimes these measurables matter, but sometimes they don't. You can talk yourself out of a really great player and into a really bad one if you rely too heavily on this shit. A friend of mine is a scout in the NFL...done so for 20 years, had a great quote. "Measurables are a good tool, but they are not THE tool."
Yeah it's just a data point, but I think there are times when teams also talk themselves into and out of players based on those measurables. Rashan Gary is the perfect example of a guy who didn't have the film (mostly) and didn't have the production to match his draft slot, but he more/less got drafted based on his ceiling. Likewise you see guys every year that get knocked down, you assume, based on their H/W/S. Why did Bobby Wagner last until pick 47? His college film was outstanding, his athletic testing was outstanding, but he's 6' and 245 lbs. First round LBs aren't generally 6' is the only reason I can see? Again it's a data point, but when you're trying to predict what teams will do I think it can be as important as film.
@Chongo posted:
Traded 12 to Jets for #13, #43 and WR Corey Davis...DFH Mock
I think, unless their combine/pro days are good/bad, this is a pretty realistic direction for the Rodgers trade and what they would do with that haul. I could see them trade one of the 1st rounders to move back, but if those two players are available I think they will pull the trigger on them.
@Chongo posted:Mayer could be the next Jace Sternberger, or the next Travis Kelce...you just don't know until a guy gets into games. Jace had all the glossy numbers, now he's on the All-Couch squad.
The one argument I would make is that Mayer is bigger, and has had more consistent production against better competition.
I'm not enamored with Quentin Johnson. Yes, he had a great season, and he was big vs. Michigan and Kansas State. He disappeared in the championship, however. I'd say TE is a bigger need, and if given the choice between Johnson and Mayer, I would pick Mayer...he'll be a much bigger factor in the red zone, which is where this team has struggled.
@Grave Digger posted:I think, unless their combine/pro days are good/bad, this is a pretty realistic direction for the Rodgers trade and what they would do with that haul. I could see them trade one of the 1st rounders to move back, but if those two players are available I think they will pull the trigger on them.
Likely a crazy scenario, my guess is they would get a first and perhaps a conditional 2nd based on performance and/or 12 coming back to the new team for another season.
Corey Davis was included in the trade, a player that it's sounding like the Jets want to part from due to their young WR talent. This addresses Lazard's departure and dare I say, a significant upgrade.
Some people don't like Dell, but he fits a couple of roles and gives the Packers something they don't currently have...an explosive PR and an athletic slot guy that can also come out of the backfield like Deebo.
Darnell Washington is a big, athletic body...no he isn't a 5-tool TE...but neither was Kittle or Kelce coming out of college. You bet on the future development potential.
My gut says Branch falls, Van Ness won't be there at 13 or 15.
@Grave Digger posted:Why did Bobby Wagner last until pick 47? His college film was outstanding, his athletic testing was outstanding, but he's 6' and 245 lbs. First round LBs aren't generally 6' is the only reason I can see? Again it's a data point, but when you're trying to predict what teams will do I think it can be as important as film.
And he played at Utah State...Roquan Smith being a standout at UGA propelled him into the first despite being only 6'1. Same with Patrick Queen being an LSU kid vs. Lousiana Lafayette.
Maybe, but I think he just got overlooked because he wasn't the prototype. Teams (GM's) don't want to risk their job by using a premium pick on a player that doesn't have that elite physical upside. That's where I think those data points come into play for teams.
You gotta work the board. Keep moving down until you get the right value on a guy. Stack the roster around Love, rebuild the WR position with Davis and JSN to go with Watson and Doubs (boom top 4 aren't too bad), hugely upgrade the TE position with athletic Kincaid and massive Washington (who might as well be a Marcedes clone), and give him a Darren Sproles clone as a gadget RB/WR and KR (Achane). Meanwhile you stack the DL with 2 pass rushers under the age of 22 to go with a healthy Gary, Smith, and KE. Ain't no stoppin' us now!
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@Chongo posted:And he played at Utah State...Roquan Smith being a standout at UGA propelled him into the first despite being only 6'1. Same with Patrick Queen being an LSU kid vs. Lousiana Lafayette.
The LBs at places like LSU, Georgia, and Alabama are harder to project to the NFL level than DL and CB at those places.
The advantage of scouting guys at those SEC schools is that in at least a third of the conference games they are matching up against other future NFL players. In many cases, you learn more watching LSU and Alabama practices than watching them play Louisiana-Lafeyette. I would bet scouts get more out of watching one game of tape from an Alabama-LSU, Alabama-Georgia, Georgia-LSU, etc. game than they do from 10 games of watching Alabama blow out some lower-tier team in the first half.
You can look at tape and see whether a DL beats his guy at the snap, how often he draws double teams, etc. When they are lining up against future NFL first round picks, you can really get a sense of how they may project to the NFL when everyone they are playing against is an elite talent.
If the team plays a lot of man-to-man, you can also see how a DB is in coverage. You can learn a lot about a SEC DB when from games where you watched them play against absolutely loaded offenses. I mean, LSU had Joe Burrow throwing to Justin Jefferson and Chase with a 2nd round pick (Marshall, Jr.) as the backup. Alabama had Tua, Mac Jones, or Jalen Hurts throwing to Davonta Smith, Jaylen Waddell, Ruggs Jr., and Jerry Jeudy. At some point you are going to see a lot of the DBs you are scouting covering a future Pro Bowl WR. That tells you a lot. I would bet Josh Jackson wouldn't have been anywhere near a first round pick if he had a lot of game tape trying to cover those guys.
I would guess the LBs are harder to judge because a lot about how good you are as an NFL LB (at least against the run) is how well you get through traffic when the OL gets to the second level. If every DL playing in front of you at Alabama, Georgia, or LSU is a future NFL player, you often get to run downhill on every possesson because the OL can't get to the second level.
@Packmeister posted:The one argument I would make is that Mayer is bigger, and has had more consistent production against better competition.
https://bleacherreport.com/art...or-each-nfl-position
This article claims that vertical jump is a key thing to look at for a TE. It does give you some information about explosiveness and strength in short spaces (a good surrogate for being able to win a contested catch in traffic).
Vertical jump at the NFL draft combine: KIttle (35 inches), Kelce (35), Gronk (33.5), Gonzales (34), Jared Cook (41), Greg Olsen (35.5), Antonio Gates (39.5), Kyle Pitts (33.5), Jimmy Graham (38.5), Vernon Davis (42)
Sternberger (31.5), RichRod (31.5), DeGuara (35.5), Finley (27.5), Bubba Franks (36.5).
Obviously, it's not completely black and white. FInley was one of the worst TEs for this at the combine and he was the best TE on that list for the Packers. DeGuara looks outstanding for that trait, so maybe the ACL injury cost him some of that explosivness? At least you can see why they thought he might project well as an NFL TE.
This year from what I can find, Mayer is at 31.
An interesting note on this base don what others have said about converting Lazard to TE, his vertical jump at almost 240 pounds is 38.
@MichiganPacker posted:https://bleacherreport.com/art...or-each-nfl-position
Sternberger (31.5), RichRod (31.5), DeGuara (35.5), Finley (27.5), Bubba Franks (36.5).
Good article, thanks for posting.
Deguara, call him what you want, they play him as an HB.
I also question how committed MLF is to using the TE more...we assume problems with TE is a talent issue...but maybe it's more that MLF isn't that enamored with using them in a more expansive role. I guess you could say if he had a more talented TE, he'd be more comfortable using them.
Reflecting back to this season, part of the offenses problems was schematic...guys were not getting open with the regularity they needed. But then when they were, 12 was not seeing them.
So what is the issue...is he just not seeing them, or is he choosing not to go to them because he's always looking for the homerun ball? If he's not seeing them, then maybe it is time to hang them up. If it's the latter, then it's on MLF to sit down with him and tell him to throw the ball to the open guy, even if it doesn't yield the result he thinks needs to happen. To me, that is what makes Purdy so successful...he doesn't always look to make the hard throw...he looks to make the easy throw. Maybe that's because he can't make the hard throw...but whatever, it works.
I still say a wobbly OL that improved as the season wore on, and 12's thumb were bigger factors than him making poor choices...and both will be rectified in 2023. Packers need an upgrade at RG and RT. Yosh is a career backup. Tom may be RT1 going forward, but the Packers need to consider spending high draft capital on RT...Tom has show the kind of versatility you could kick him inside at RG and be done with the JRJ experiment. Get the OL right, offense will look better...that's priority 1 whether it's 12 or 10 throwing it.
Your analysis about Purdy is spot on.
@Grave Digger posted:You gotta work the board. Keep moving down until you get the right value on a guy. Stack the roster around Love, rebuild the WR position with Davis and JSN to go with Watson and Doubs (boom top 4 aren't too bad), hugely upgrade the TE position with athletic Kincaid and massive Washington (who might as well be a Marcedes clone), and give him a Darren Sproles clone as a gadget RB/WR and KR (Achane). Meanwhile you stack the DL with 2 pass rushers under the age of 22 to go with a healthy Gary, Smith, and KE. Ain't no stoppin' us now!
That's a nice haul. I don't understand the rating of Njigba, though. For one thing, he needs to return for his senior season. 2022 was a wash. I do like the double-TE approach, but I'm guessing Kincaid is not there at 38. Uzomah is intriguing, but he declined at the end of the year...maybe some really good upside there, though. Ojulari's a bit undersized. I don't think I would take him there at 30. I'm a big fan of Tippmann. Schmitz, from Minnesota, is another IOL I like.
@MichiganPacker posted:https://bleacherreport.com/art...or-each-nfl-position
This article claims that vertical jump is a key thing to look at for a TE. It does give you some information about explosiveness and strength in short spaces (a good surrogate for being able to win a contested catch in traffic).
I can see that it's important, but I would expect the vertical to be even more important for a wideout. Generally, your TE's are 6'4" - 6'7", anyways, so they're naturally able to get more contested catches.
For a tight end, I want to see a lot of things (pretty much the same as any position), but I want to know how fast and strong they are. Also, how good are their hands? Washington, for instance, has some amazing video that shows how good his hands are. He may not be the fastest TE in the draft, but he catches extremely well. How good is the route running, or the blocking? The combine and Pro Days aren't going to reveal that much about those skills.
@Chongo posted:
Traded 12 to Jets for #13, #43 and WR Corey Davis...DFH Mock
First, I love the trade proposal and would do it even without the addition of Corey Davis.
Second, I have no idea if this draft would be a good one for the Packers or not, but it would be as intriguing as hell to see if Joe Barry could somehow eke out a top half of the league finish in 2023 with just 9 (count em 9) 1st round picks on his defense.