Official General 2021 Offseason Thread

@Chongo posted:

That now his future wife and mother-in-law are now getting involved on social media confirms to be that 12 knows exactly what he's doing. This charade he's playing out by not saying anything is well thought out. He's obviously not getting his way, so now he's roping in his squad to apply pressure. 17 also joining in on the reindeer games.

It could be Adams is just as fed up with the FO bullshit as well.  It's not like he doesn't have a front seat for the whole Rodgers drama and now his own contract negotiations. 

Players stick together and most don't talk about contract negotiations of another player.  Considering there's been so many players and even execs from all corners saying the same thing about respect and communication I'm going to lean on that info rather than trying to divine meaning in social media posting.

@Chongo posted:

I'm tired of Gunt. I'm tired of What Me Murphy. I'm tired of #12. I'm tired of all this social media game playing, and whispers and retweets and Shailene and her maw chiming in. I'm sick of this white trash melodrama that is more befitting of the Kardashians than a fucking NFL franchise.

Just let it all end and get back to fucking football soon. Please.

Yep. Murphy knows he’s the problem and Rodgers has to know he’s causing a huge problem, so if either of them actually cared about GBP they would solve it, immediately.

Fans, coaches, scouts/FO staff, and the players don’t deserve to have this kind of distraction that could potentially tank the season…because two grown men can’t come to a compromise. I don’t care what Murphy did to Rodgers or how long it happened for, he should have retired after the NFCC if his intention was to never play for GB again. And Murphy should have solved it in the first fucking trip to Cali, there shouldn’t have had to be a second and third visit. He needs to grow up and solve the problem. He should have traded him before paying the $6M roster bonus.

@Floridarob posted:

If he leaves by retirement (before he is ready) or trade, Rodgers will never return to the Packers for any type of reconcilation. I believe the guys is the greatest QB to ever play the game but he will also go down as a player who holds the biggest grudge against any an all that dont get in line with his  way of thinking....

The thing that gets me is why do fans act surprised that players have these kinds of over the top competitive personalities that come with all kinds of entitled or even narcissistic tics?

Hell, at the Combine they probe guys for these type of personalities calling them "soft" otherwise.

Does anyone really think Rodgers is that different from other super star personalities?   If you're managing a team and you can't comprehend that concept or deal with these personalities you probably shouldn't be in professional sports.  That to me is the biggest failure of the FO.  Murphy appears to have this college football mentality, which just doesn't work in the pros.

Doesn't matter if you like the guy or not, winning puts butts in the seats and on the sled hills and he's the guy who wins.

I can't stand it but I've come to accept it.  I appreciate the sport and the athlete for what they can do on the field.  Hearing a nice story off the field is good but anybody building some kind of narrative around a player is in for disappointment most of the time.  Like I've always said, hero worship is for suckers.

I think Murphy, being a defensive player from the previous NFL era, probably doesn’t have much respect for diva QBs. JMO, but I think because they weathered the Favre saga pretty well, all things considered, that he feels confident that he can use the same playbook and the same will happen here. Rodgers is a different animal.

WMM is 66, and made more money than he could have ever imagined. He's playing with house money at this point, so he can walk away whenever the Packers Bored of Directors decides it's time to go.

Gunt has a lot of career ahead of him...he bones things up too hard, he's back playing road warrior racking up Comfort Suites member points like they are Pez.

Russ Balls is the safest man in America...all he has to do is count beans and tell them what we can and can't afford.

@Henry posted:

It could be Adams is just as fed up with the FO bullshit as well.  It's not like he doesn't have a front seat for the whole Rodgers drama and now his own contract negotiations.

Players stick together and most don't talk about contract negotiations of another player.  Considering there's been so many players and even execs from all corners saying the same thing about respect and communication I'm going to lean on that info rather than trying to divine meaning in social media posting.

Oh I get it, and I'm not gonna hate on the players too much, just saying, it has gotten old.

TBH, I resigned myself to the fact 17 was going to move on next year anyway. Not sure the Packers need to tie up that much money in a WR.

Guys like Love and AJ Dillon are the only reason I care even a little bit about this team.

I used to back the players on all contract issues, and only 2 days ago I was backing Adams against the franchise tag. The question is, why? The players are corporate assholes too. If Adams gets franchised I won’t give 2 shots about it.

Hindsight is 20/20, but I think the biggest fuck up has been not trading him prior to the draft. Teams know he’s desperate to leave GB, he won’t renegotiate his contract, he has a $40M cap hit in ‘22, so they have to trade or cut him. GB’s bargaining position for a trade is substantially weakened by the way they have played this. Who knows what they could have gotten in April, multiple picks and players, but now you have to think teams will wait for him to be cut. If he’s willing to play for anyone then he maybe some time jumps the line and gets him, but if he’s intent on going to Denver or Vegas or maybe New Orleans specifically then no one will want the headache of a malcontent rental.

I'm not going to fault top players wanting their cut of a billion dollar business.  That's what the owners created with this version of the NFL so it shouldn't be surprising players act in their own interest first.  Instead of creating a fair, quality product it's about constantly expanding with more games, shit football during the week, pimping the league across the world.   

Maybe the owners and the players union should update and restructure how the cap and player benefits work with a focus on fan sensibilities instead just plundering our pockets. 

oh the plundering will continue

Wait, are you saying that we as fans don’t mean shit to Rodgers??

@Henry posted:

I'm not going to fault top players wanting their cut of a billion dollar business.  That's what the owners created with this version of the NFL so it shouldn't be surprising players act in their own interest first.  Instead of creating a fair, quality product it's about constantly expanding with more games, shit football during the week, pimping the league across the world.   

Maybe the owners and the players union should update and restructure how the cap and player benefits work with a focus on fan sensibilities instead just plundering our pockets.

Yup…I’m guessing that the Rams would have given plenty for him and he would be more than happy playing in Hollywood.

I'm just spitballing here but how about a system of performance incentives that give the team more cap room tied to a specific player based on that players performance.

So you have your standard cap and contract negotiation but Rodgers wins the MVP, the team now gains more cap room to specifically add/rework into his contract in the next year or next contract cycle.  So every award or level of performance gains the team more cap to benefit the player specifically.  Win offensive player of the week, get a commensurate bump to future contract negotiations.  Win the Super Bowl, the entire team gets a cap bump and not just player bonus checks.

If a player has a problem with the team or whatever and wants out, the team and the player loses that cap reward.  If the player goes to another team, they start over.  If the player starts to decline then it shows in their personal cap reserves.

Besides the obvious player incentives it also creates liquidity in the cap to extend fan favorites and allows players to finish a career with one team without destroying the base cap for signing other players that are more supporting cast.

Guys like Adams and Rodgers who by this time have probably accumulated a good amount of "private cap" can adjust their bases salaries and show a commitment by using their cap reserves.  There is incentive to build a positive organizational structure across the board and it gives fans even more reason to feel pride about their teams.

This is just all off the top of my head and I'm sure there are things to be ironed out but the NFL needs to really start innovating on the business side of things including ethics, fan sentiment and preservation of the idea of sport.

@Goalline posted:

Guys like Love and AJ Dillon are the only reason I care even a little bit about this team.

I used to back the players on all contract issues, and only 2 days ago I was backing Adams against the franchise tag. The question is, why? The players are corporate assholes too. If Adams gets franchised I won’t give 2 shots about it.

So what happens if they have great success and want to get their cut?  Are they assholes now?

Is Jones an asshole for getting the contract he did even though conventional wisdom would say paying an RB isn't a good investment? 

That's what I don't get.  We shouldn't be shocked by this kind of stuff.

So in other words you want to create in the NFL what the Yankees and Dodgers have been doing in baseball.  Keep winning Super Bowls and your cap goes up so you can sign free agents to fill holes.   Why in the hell do you think most hate the Yankees and Dodgers? They just keep trying to buy championships.   If the increased cap is only for your own players, fine. But you know  it won't work that way.

Maybe you should fucking read it instead of pissing and moaning because you're butthurt over Rodgers.

It doesn't increase the cap for the whole team, it's a personal cap bank above and beyond the standard cap.  It can be used only for that player.

Easy tiger.

@Henry posted:

This is just all off the top of my head and I'm sure there are things to be ironed out but the NFL needs to really start innovating on the business side of things.

I think the superstars see what happens in the NBA want that kind of power. It won't happen for at least another decade.

The problem is that the players signed a new agreement that doesn't expire until 2030. If you recall, Rodgers was strongly against that new deal. The reason it passed is that the minimum salary went way up. The median salary in the NFL is about 800K. The half of the players making below that are usually in the league for a very short time and they need to make money while they can. The NFL owners shrewdly made concessions to the low-wage guys to get what they wanted. The superstars that came out against it (Rodgers, R. Wilson, JJ Watt, etc.) claimed they were holding out for player safety, but it's likely they wanted other changes to give them more freedom to move around.

It's possible that Rodgers just doesn't want to play in Green Bay anymore for reasons that have nothing to do with the front office. He's a California guy with a Hollywood fiance.

In my head, that would be part of the "private cap" equation.  If the guy really wants out but the means to pay him are there without busting the cap then you can piss on his head all you want.

Half of my idea is so "true fans" can quit making hypocrites out of themselves.

These are just my ideas.  Like so many other problems in this world, the NFL can choose to innovate or watch it all die while clutching cash in their fists.  I think we all know what's going to happen.

@MichiganPacker2 posted:

I think the superstars see what happens in the NBA want that kind of power. It won't happen for at least another decade.

The problem is that the players signed a new agreement that doesn't expire until 2030. If you recall, Rodgers was strongly against that new deal. The reason it passed is that the minimum salary went way up. The median salary in the NFL is about 800K. The half of the players making below that are usually in the league for a very short time and they need to make money while they can. The NFL owners shrewdly made concessions to the low-wage guys to get what they wanted. The superstars that came out against it (Rodgers, R. Wilson, JJ Watt, etc.) claimed they were holding out for player safety, but it's likely they wanted other changes to give them more freedom to move around.

It's possible that Rodgers just doesn't want to play in Green Bay anymore for reasons that have nothing to do with the front office. He's a California guy with a Hollywood fiance.

Most recent NBA champion actually copied the Packer way..draft and develop sprinkled with trades and mid level & lower FA’s. Wasn’t the superstar NBA way the super team, route?

Moneyball will never work in football, because QB is the focal point of the team. You can't win without a certain level of QB. Not everyone is Rodgers, Brady or Brees, but you are not winning a Championship with Cousins or Cutler.

You can argue "the Packer way," of D&D has proven it works over time as evidenced by the overall success the team has had over the last 30 or so years...but in that time, the franchise has had two starting QB, both HoFers. I doubt you could make a very good case for D&D had the Packers been on the QB carousel the Bears or Queens have been riding in that time.

If you have a great QB, you will win a lot of games.

@Steve of Norway posted:

Most recent NBA champion actually copied the Packer way..draft and develop sprinkled with trades and mid level & lower FA’s. Wasn’t the superstar NBA way the super team, route?

It's great that the Bucks did this and it makes it much better being a diehard fan of the team, but over the last 10 years there have only 3 teams that were "home-built" and one of those was an illusion.

The first Warriors title was all homegrown guys, but the last two were with Durant. The "illusion" of being homegrown was the Kawhi Leonard Raptors title. It must feel pretty hollow to celebrate a title you won by trading away your all-time leading scorer and a guy who loved living in Toronto (DeRozan) for a guy who couldn't wait to leave even after winning a ring.

Other than that, 7 of the last 10 have been superteams with at least one future HOFer arriving as a free agent (or after a forced trade). You could argue Kawhi forced his way out of San Antonio.

I doubt the NFL ever goes this way. In the NBA, you really need to have 2-3 stars and 3-4 other guys that are good enough to win with. In the NFL, you are often only as good as your weakest link so you need a couple dozen competent players (no Kevin Kings - or really no Josh Jacksons who was so bad he made you play an injured Kevin King). In the NBA, the draft picks are often meaningless if they aren't top 3-4 (and even then, it's a crapshoot). In the NFL, you can't miss on too draft picks without cripping your team with a lot of weak links.

@Henry posted:

So what happens if they have great success and want to get their cut?  Are they assholes now?

Is Jones an asshole for getting the contract he did even though conventional wisdom would say paying an RB isn't a good investment?

No because Jones didn't try to throw the team under the bus to get his contract and wasn't butthurt when they drafted his replacement.  He was also at the end of his deal.

I can also excuse Adams for the same reason.  He said he won't holdout, showed up to minicamp to prove it. He should be the highest paid WR in the NFL because (IMO) he's probably the best receiver.  Can we pay him when our QB is taking up 25% of the cap?  Can we pay him when we've already made our LT the highest paid LT?  Can we pay him when we just paid Jones and need to pay Jaire?

We're fortunate, we have too many good players to pay them all.  I'm fine with players trying to get the most for their skills.  Just don't drag the team in the mud while you do it.

@Chongo posted:

Moneyball will never work in football, because QB is the focal point of the team. You can't win without a certain level of QB. Not everyone is Rodgers, Brady or Brees, but you are not winning a Championship with Cousins or Cutler.

You can argue "the Packer way," of D&D has proven it works over time as evidenced by the overall success the team has had over the last 30 or so years...but in that time, the franchise has had two starting QB, both HoFers. I doubt you could make a very good case for D&D had the Packers been on the QB carousel the Bears or Queens have been riding in that time.

If you have a great QB, you will win a lot of games.

The flip side is that teams like Pittsburgh, Baltimore, New England, Tampa, maybe more have multiple championships over the last 20 years with really deep D&D philosophies. Draft and develop is THE most crucial part of a championship team, Tampa doesnt win a championship without Devin White, Carlton Davis, Chris Godwin, Mike Evans, Tristan Wirfs, etc. What GB has done wrong over the last 15-16 years is not pay the price for missed draft picks. They’ve done it at times with success, Julius Peppers, done it poorly at times, Jimmy Graham, but mostly they’ve just not done it at all. Gute has certainly changed the status quo in that regard and has done it well, but I guess too little too late.

Let’s remember that Trent Dilfer has a Super Bowl ring.  

So does Joe Barry.

@Grave Digger posted:

Hindsight is 20/20, but I think the biggest fuck up has been not trading him prior to the draft. Teams know he’s desperate to leave GB, he won’t renegotiate his contract, he has a $40M cap hit in ‘22, so they have to trade or cut him. GB’s bargaining position for a trade is substantially weakened by the way they have played this. Who knows what they could have gotten in April, multiple picks and players, but now you have to think teams will wait for him to be cut. If he’s willing to play for anyone then he maybe some time jumps the line and gets him, but if he’s intent on going to Denver or Vegas or maybe New Orleans specifically then no one will want the headache of a malcontent rental.

They majorly fucked up in not dealing the guy.

@Henry posted:

Maybe you should fucking read it instead of pissing and moaning because you're butthurt over Rodgers.

It doesn't increase the cap for the whole team, it's a personal cap bank above and beyond the standard cap.  It can be used only for that player.

Easy tiger.

Well when you post this type of shit, "Besides the obvious player incentives it also creates liquidity in the cap to extend fan favorites and allows players to finish a career with one team without destroying the base cap for signing other players that are more supporting cast."  that makes it sound like you can keep signing whopever you want with no cap ramifications.     So go eat shit and bark at the moon.

*

If Rodgers retires, this is the only guy I want leading my team:

@Packy posted:

Let’s remember that Trent Dilfer has a Super Bowl ring.  

Who?

I think he meant Brad Johnson.

Or Mark Rypien.

if trent dilfer were the QB on the Dom Capers and Bald Man Teams, he still would not have a super bowl win. 

@Grave Digger posted:

Hindsight is 20/20, but I think the biggest fuck up has been not trading him prior to the draft. Teams know he’s desperate to leave GB, he won’t renegotiate his contract, he has a $40M cap hit in ‘22, so they have to trade or cut him.

I know it would never happen, but they could keep him in '22 and blow up much of the rest of the roster to stay under the cap. He'd get his commitment and cash, but a shit team around him.

Can't have both.

@vitaflo posted:

No because Jones didn't try to throw the team under the bus to get his contract and wasn't butthurt when they drafted his replacement.  He was also at the end of his deal.

I can also excuse Adams for the same reason.  He said he won't holdout, showed up to minicamp to prove it. He should be the highest paid WR in the NFL because (IMO) he's probably the best receiver.  Can we pay him when our QB is taking up 25% of the cap?  Can we pay him when we've already made our LT the highest paid LT?  Can we pay him when we just paid Jones and need to pay Jaire?

We're fortunate, we have too many good players to pay them all.  I'm fine with players trying to get the most for their skills.  Just don't drag the team in the mud while you do it.

I'm pretty sure trying to leave the team altogether and renegotiating a contract is entirely different.  So the criteria of "throwing the team under the bus" has more to do with idiots actually creating an environment for said player wanting to exit, not just rework a contract.

@ammo posted:

Well when you post this type of shit, "Besides the obvious player incentives it also creates liquidity in the cap to extend fan favorites and allows players to finish a career with one team without destroying the base cap for signing other players that are more supporting cast." that makes it sound like you can keep signing whopever you want with no cap ramifications.     So go eat shit and bark at the moon.

Yeah, that's only because you didn't understand in the first place. I know it's tough to grasp new ideas or not put everything into a little group prescribed by your personal choices or butthurt of the moment. You should've tried reading the whole thing first.

First fucking paragraph.

I'm just spitballing here but how about a system of performance incentives that give the team more cap room tied to a specific player based on that players performance.

@EC Pack posted:

I think he meant Brad Johnson.

No he meant Trent Dilfer.  Dilfer was drafted by Tampa Bay (#6 overall) and he was with them for 6 seasons.  Of the 5 seasons he was the starter, he had a winning record in 2 of those seasons.  In March of 2000 he signed with the Ravens as a backup to Tony Banks.  After some games he supplanted Banks as the starter and went 7-1 - the team went 12-4 on the season.  Remember that the Ravens had a suffocating defense that season.  Dilfer did not have to be great, just be consistent and don't turn the ball over - things he did well that season.  They beat the Giants in the SB.  So yes, Dilfer has a SB ring. 

After the 2000 season the Ravens thought they could do better than Dilfer and got Elvis Grbac from SF - a guy that would be more of a play maker - or so they thought.  That did not go so well the following season.  Dilfer was with the Ravens for a total of 1 season. 

@Grave Digger posted:

Yes 100%. Mahomes has the heaviest dong in the league right now, he gets everyone’s full attention at all times. Rodgers is 37, does he deserve input in a team he wasn’t going to be on much longer? His contract spelled out the plan clear as day, a contract he also signed, so he certainly could see reality.

I disagree with you here. The contract looks to be set up for an extension with cap relief just as much as a termination, and a great QB probably should expect that to be an extension point rather than a termination point.

@Grave Digger posted:

🤣 every team jumping out in front of this story to declare how great their relationship is with their franchise QB. The league owes Mark Murphy a thank you, because Rodgers power play has exposed the house of cards that exists when you have a high $ franchise QB. The Packers were so rude that he can’t possibly stand another second in the building. Cool, sounds like a totally normal reaction to someone being rude to you. Very relatable for your average fan.

The "average fan" is a fucking idiot if they think a superstar QB's treatment  should relate to them. The "average fan" cares about the stars being on their team and wins. The "average fan" is lucky to name the starting O-line or assistant coaches.

@Grave Digger posted:

The flip side is that teams like Pittsburgh, Baltimore, New England, Tampa, maybe more have multiple championships over the last 20 years with really deep D&D philosophies. Draft and develop is THE most crucial part of a championship team, Tampa doesnt win a championship without Devin White, Carlton Davis, Chris Godwin, Mike Evans, Tristan Wirfs, etc. What GB has done wrong over the last 15-16 years is not pay the price for missed draft picks. They’ve done it at times with success, Julius Peppers, done it poorly at times, Jimmy Graham, but mostly they’ve just not done it at all. Gute has certainly changed the status quo in that regard and has done it well, but I guess too little too late.

Only the few remaining reflexive Packer front office genuflectors continue to pretend that the New England Patriots built their rosters under Belichik just like good old Ted did during his 13 years in Green Bay (shunning free agency and player trades).

While the record clearly reflects that the Patriots made more trades of and for players during Ted's run than any other NFL franchise (big ones like Moss and many, many smaller ones to plug holes), less well known is that the team that wears Green and Gold made the fewest.

As for free agency, NE signed big timers like Revis and Gilmore and every year a slew of near-the-end vets who were chasing a Lombardi, while ol' Murph was content to let Ted ignore free agency year after year after year ... until he apparently finally spoke to the man and realized he was no longer medically incompetent.

Belichik went on record to specifically state that the Pats went all in to compete for SBs during Brady's final seasons, while in GB the very notion of not always planning for the future is considered sacrelige and all in the Devil's work.

As for Tampa Bay, they won the SB last year not because they went all draft and develop on the bit ... but because they supplemented their roster by signing free agents like Tom Brady and Leonard Fournette and Antonio Brown and Ryan Jensen and Ndamukong Suh and Shaq Barrett and traded for Gronk and JPP.

Gute has indeed disavowed the unnecessarily rigid (and ultimately ineffective) approach to roster building that he so loyally supported while his predecessor was in charge. Hope the new approach pays off if and when Love turns into the next great Green Bay QB so we can enjoy another, single SB win with our 3rd straight HOFer behind center.