Official General 2021 Offseason Thread

The front office also needs to take a look at how it operates.

To take but one (glaringly ovious) example, in 2020, the Packers traded their 1st and 4th round picks in order to select a player for the future.

In contrast, the team that beat GB in the NFCCG sent a 4th round pick to NE for a TE who just caught 2 TDs in the Super Bowl -- even though it already had 2 pretty good TEs in Brate and OJ Howard. That is what going ALL IN to win now looks like.

And yes I know that Gronk specifically was never coming to GB, but the Pack has not traded a draft pick for any veteran player that could help them in the upcoming season in forever. Trading for players is just not done in GB for whatever reason.

If getting to and winning a Lombardi is the actual goal, Its time for the brainstrust to tinker with the master plan because just doing what we have done has not led to a SB appearance in over a decade now.

Maybe division titles, playoffs and a playoff win is considered successful enough. What if the braintrust is just fine with doing what they're doing when it has them "in the hunt" ever year and their financials are strong?  I wonder about that a lot in the very little time I have to wonder about such things.

@DH13 posted:

The front office also needs to take a look at how it operates.

To take but one (glaringly ovious) example, in 2020, the Packers traded their 1st and 4th round picks in order to select a player for the future.

In contrast, the team that beat GB in the NFCCG sent a 4th round pick to NE for a TE who just caught 2 TDs in the Super Bowl -- even though it already had 2 pretty good TEs in Brate and OJ Howard. That is what going ALL IN to win now looks like.

And yes I know that Gronk specifically was never coming to GB, but the Pack has not traded a draft pick for any veteran player that could help them in the upcoming season in forever. Trading for players is just not done in GB for whatever reason.

If getting to and winning a Lombardi is the actual goal, Its time for the brainstrust to tinker with the master plan because just doing what we have done has not led to a SB appearance in over a decade now.

Maybe division titles, playoffs and a playoff win is considered successful enough. What if the braintrust is just fine with doing what they're doing when it has them "in the hunt" ever year and their financials are strong?  I wonder about that a lot in the very little time I have to wonder about such things.

You may well be correct that being "in the hunt" nearly every year and ensuring the team's financials are strong may be the priority over advancing to Super Bowls for the braintrust during the past decade.

I was only commenting on what the Packers, including the braintrust, might want to consider changing in how they operate ... if advancing to the Super Bowls is indeed the #1 priority in Green Bay.

I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree Hank

Do I wish they had another playmaker on offense or defense instead of Love?   Absolutely.

But if you break down the game, it was mistakes/miscues/drops by two of their best players (Adams and Jones).  Another one of their top guys (Bak) didn’t play.  Alexander and Rodgers and Kenny Clark played well.  But let’s think about this for a minute.  Who in the draft has better hands and is more clutch than 17?  How about 33.  Guy was a playmaker all year and has a terrible game and gets hurt.  It happens.  As for 69, well, you are only talking about the best pass blocking LT in the league.  Where was that guy on the draft board to fill in for him?

Here’s the thing - yes they need more talent especially at the DL and LB and CB.  Probably WR and RB (if Jones departs).  But the talent they had put them in position to win the game and advance.   You seem to want to fixate on the FG instead of TD, but IMO the game was decided well before then.   Basically 90 seconds.

The Scotty Miller play should never have happened.   What set it all up was Lazard getting interfered with and Rodgers intercepted.  Then Redmond drops an easy pick.  Then Pettine and King fall asleep at the wheel.  TD.  

Then they come out after halftime and Jones fumbles and TB scores on a short field - 1 play.  That’s the ballgame at 28-10.

Their talent was good enough to practically storm all the way back and steal a victory but you can’t give a good team like TB 14 easy points in that manner.   Not in a playoff game.  

By the way, Jordan Love didn’t make up for all the stupid or busted draft picks made in the last 5 years.  You know who they are - mostly defensive guys and a certain LB who they passed on who almost won defensive player of the year but hey in return we got the guy who forgot how to cover in a Hail Mary situation?

You think the Chiefs brain trust is carrying on how they don’t have enough talent?   Just so happens they also fell victim to the injury bug (if Mahomes was 75% I’d be surprised).   Two backup OTs?  What could possibly go wrong.  Then Kelce drops a few, Hill all of a sudden can’t get open, refs blow some calls, and it’s over.   At least GB was competitive.

Actually, what has wasted all these years has been the lack of a good defense. Rodgers has always been good enough and so has the offense. It's not like this team goes out and scores only 9 points in big games. The problem has always been that this team gives up 29 points in the biggest games when everyone knows that defense wins championships.

Even against TB, this offense was good enough to almost, almost come back from the dumpster fire that they helped create and the defense certainly had a big hand in creating and letting burn with dropped INTs and so on. Despite everyone whining and crying about needing a WR here an OL there, and slot receiver there for Rodgers to play with, it's really the D that needs shoring up more and more. Ever since the Cardinals facemask game, it's been the D that's let this team down.

Yes, I wish they had another playmaker or two or three or four -- on the defensive side of the ball. I'll always take 'em where I can get 'em, but I would be searching high and low for every defensive position on that side of the roster.

@Fandame posted:

Actually, what has wasted all these years has been the lack of a good defense. Rodgers has always been good enough and so has the offense. It's not like this team goes out and scores only 9 points in big games. The problem has always been that this team gives up 29 points in the biggest games when everyone knows that defense wins championships.

fandame you are absolutely correct.  I saw a stat recently that the Packers defense has averaged giving up something like 32 points a game in every playoff loss since the Super Bowl win.  Rodgers is great but you cannot rely upon the offense in the playoffs to have to score that many points because many times they are facing really good defenses. 

Have their been cases when the offense didn't get it done hell yes absolutely. 

But its usually the defense.  The breakdown at the end of the half vs. Tampa, 49ers running for almost 300 yards on them, mental breakdown and not covering Fitzgerald, Kaep running wild, etc.

When you look back to the 2010 season (playoffs) it was the defense that made key play after key play.  

The Tramon Williams pick 6 against ATL.  BJ Raji the same thing the following week against Chitcago.  Then of course pressure on Big Ben that caused the Collins pick 6 against the Steelers and maybe the biggest play of the game CMIII knocking the ball loose against Mendenhall.  

Yes, they picked off Brady 3 times but honestly the dropped pick by Redmond was huge.  Failure to get enough pressure on Brady on 3rd down extended drives.  Same shit different day it seems with this team but other than the 2011 playoff game against the Giants I’m not sure Rodgers has contributed much to those losses.  

@Tschmack posted:

When you look back to the 2010 season (playoffs) it was the defense that made key play after key play.  

The Tramon Williams pick 6 against ATL.  BJ Raji the same thing the following week against Chitcago.  Then of course pressure on Big Ben that caused the Collins pick 6 against the Steelers and maybe the biggest play of the game CMIII knocking the ball loose against Mendenhall.  

Yes, they picked off Brady 3 times but honestly the dropped pick by Redmond was huge.  Failure to get enough pressure on Brady on 3rd down extended drives.  Same shit different day it seems with this team but other than the 2011 playoff game against the Giants I’m not sure Rodgers has contributed much to those losses.  

Good point. Don't forget the following either

1. Tramon picking off Michael Vick in the end zone when the Eagles were driving for a winning TD in the final minute of that playoff game.

2. Sam Shields with two picks in the title game, including one to end the game when the Bears were driving for a tying TD at the end of regulation.

3. People often forget that the Packers stopped the Steelers when they were up less than one TD to end the Super Bowl. I think Tramon broke up the final two passes on the 4 and out.

Pettine had the defense in place to stop several scoring drives - Savage got outjumped on a lob on one scoring drive on 3rd and long. Redmond's drop was huge. And, we don't know exactly whether King was playing in terms of a scheme that fateful play. It looked like he was playing a different defensive approach that Alexander on the other side.

I know people like to complain about Pettine, but the defense's failures in the Tampa Bay game were much different than Capers, Sanders, or Slowik's problems. In many cases, those other DCs had defenses where guys would blow assignments and receivers would be running wide open at the worst possible times. I can think of one play in the title game where a blown coverage caused a score and that was on 1st and goal after the A. Jones fumble when Amos bit on the play-action and let the guy alone behind him. Pettine's defenses usually got beat because he didn't cover up personnel deficiencies enough, but it's not clear whether anybody really could have. You have to give up something and the other guys get paid too.

Pettine needed better ILBs, DL depth, and #2 CB. Not sure how Barry is going to improve them at all unless he someone unlocks whatever the front office saw in Oren Burks, Josh Jackson, and Montravious Adams to draft them high.

If the Barry hire goes South, it might be the step that starts the clock ticking on MLF in Green Bay after the Rodgers' era ends.

Rodgers forcing the ball to Adams on consecutive plays contributed to the loss.

@MichiganPacker2 posted:

If the Barry hire goes South, it might be the step that starts the clock ticking on MLF in Green Bay after the Rodgers' era ends.

I don't know about that.  Depends on when the AR era ends.  I think Love, Dillon and Deguera were drafted for MLF's offense and he's proven he can make the passing game a lot easier for any QB.  How much say did he have in selecting Barry?

@GBFanForLife posted:

Rodgers forcing the ball to Adams on consecutive plays contributed to the loss.

Yeah..   Adams can be his kryptonite.  As crazy as that is, his worst games are when he gets locked in on Adams and stops playing within the offense.

@Goalline posted:

I know it is a lot to ask of people who haven't recovered from the Seattle game from 6 years ago, but the Tampa game is over. So looking forward to this off-season and to next season. We gonna be gud again.

To be fair, they haven't recovered from 4th and 26 or the Jerry Rice fumble, either. 

HE FUMBLED GODDAMMIT!

@Fedya posted:

To be fair, they haven't recovered from 4th and 26 or the Jerry Rice fumble, either. 

Bears fans haven't recovered from this

@DH13 posted:

I don't know about that.  Depends on when the AR era ends.  I think Love, Dillon and Deguera were drafted for MLF's offense and he's proven he can make the passing game a lot easier for any QB.  How much say did he have in selecting Barry?

Barry is MLF's guy.

We've been drafting defense since taking a gaggle of db's after the Randy Moss coming out party. It's never come together.

Except that whole 2010 thing, which really is completely irrelevant.

lovepack  doesn’t celebrate Super Bowl wins by the Packers...he’s like an atheist about joy.

For the second year in a row, Aaron Rodgers' receivers lost the most yards in the league to drops: 552 yards.

That was more than 100 yards than second-placed Patrick Mahomes who threw 97 more passes than him. pic.twitter.com/VuCqIo0ydn

— QB Data Mine (@QBDataMine) February 12, 2021

@RapSheet: The #Packers recently created about $8.3M in cap space by converting LT David Bakhtiari’s more than $11M roster bonus into a signing bonus and spreading it out over the length of the contract. He’ll make the same as before, but it gives GB some room to operate.

I’m curious if Rodgers will join in the finagling.  I’m guessing if nothing happens Rodgers will be gone after 2021 because Gunt is a Gunt.

If they clear enough cap room to make a splash signing AT A POSITION OF NEED, I will un-Gunt him.

@Henry posted:

For the second year in a row, Aaron Rodgers' receivers lost the most yards in the league to drops: 552 yards.

That was more than 100 yards than second-placed Patrick Mahomes who threw 97 more passes than him. pic.twitter.com/VuCqIo0ydn

— QB Data Mine (@QBDataMine) February 12, 2021

Thanks to MVS we lead in yet another category!

Man imagine what our offense might have ranked if we didn’t have all that lost yardage. 🙂

It’s going to be tougher next year with crowd noise.  One Trick Pony better polish up.

I read one suggestion about going after Patrick Peterson.  JJ and Patrick.  That would be pretty splashy even for a couple of older players.  Both seem like they’ve got enough in the tank for a run.

On offense I like the idea of Curtis Samuel as the motion/gadget guy.  

@Henry posted:

Except that whole 2010 thing, which really is completely irrelevant.

You mean Nick Collins, BJ Raji, and Clay Matthews III were pretty good at one point?

@Henry posted:

I’m curious if Rodgers will join in the finagling.  I’m guessing if nothing happens Rodgers will be gone after 2021 because Gunt is a Gunt.

If they clear enough cap room to make a splash signing AT A POSITION OF NEED, I will un-Gunt him.

Here's Andy Herman showing a few cuts along with Bahk deal and contract extensions for Rodgers and Adams moving the Packers from $40 million over the cap to $9 million under it.

A quick and hopefully helpful look at the state of the Packers' salary cap. I hope this helps you understand exactly what type of situation the Packers are in and some options on how they could get out of it. pic.twitter.com/qFMrLMDeS6

— Andy Herman (@AndyHermanNFL) February 13, 2021

I’m curious where he gets his number because when you look at cap sites like Spotrac or OverTheCap, assuming a $185M cap, GB is only $20M at this time before all the cuts he suggests. GB can get out of that hole pretty easily with simple cuts like Kirko and Wagner and restructuring guys like Rodgers and ZSmith. That would get us basically to break even, which means more moves to get us in shape to sign a draft class and RFA/ERFA’s. If the cap stays at $198M then I think we’re already at break even after restructuring Bakh. Couple cuts and we’re fine.

@Henry posted:

I read one suggestion about going after Patrick Peterson.  JJ and Patrick.  That would be pretty splashy even for a couple of older players.  Both seem like they’ve got enough in the tank for a run.

I think JJ Watt and KC, on the line, side by side, would make each of them better. Double teaming one of them would allow the other to beat his man, one on one. Everyone said Peppers was at the end of his career and had little left in the tank, when he came to us, from da Bears. Peppers showed he had a lot left in the tank when he played for us. I think the same could be said of JJ Watt. It would be fun to see. I wonder what kind of cap magic Ball would have to perform, to make it a reality? Restructuring Bahktiari's bonus/ whatever, may help, but more restructuring, or just plain releasing players, will need to be done.

Yeah Watt still sees more double teams than anyone in the league, more than Aaron Donald I believe. ZSmith got most of our double teams I think, so if he’s free more often then his production should go way up. Same with KC, he got doubled a lot and still punished them.

Watt is better at this point in his career than Peppers was and JP played pretty well in his stint with GB.

One underrated aspect of 99s game is he impacts the QBs throws and knocks down a fair amount of passes.   He isn’t as explosive as he once was, but he’s light years better than anyone else on the roster or the draft for that matter.  The Packers must address DL and if they can do it in FA then they can use an early pick on CB or WR or LB.  

You get him in the picture with KC and it really allows the defensive coordinator to get creative on bringing pressure with Gary and Z.   Yes it will help take the heat off of Clark, but more importantly you have to know where the two outside LBs are going to be at all times.

When he was first hired, Gutey identified TE as a position of need. Their starting TE was a former 3rd-round pick who was an at-best-average former draft pick (RichRod). He wasn't Josh Jackson- or Jason Spriggs-level bad, but he wasn't a playmaker. To try to upgrade, they signed 31-year-old Jimmy Graham for what ended up being 2 years and 22 million (3 years and 30 million to make cap work). They thought Graham would be a difference-maker. He was basically just RichRod level.

Dean Lowry is a below-average former 4th-round pick who is the RichRod of DL. He's not awful, but you'd want an upgrade. JJ Watt is 31 years old and is much, much better at that age than Graham was. Even if he's not a 16 sack a year guy anymore, he's still an elite run stopper. He'll make your LBs better, and he's a Reggie White/Charles Woodson-level locker room guy. A contract of 3 years and 36 million (really 2 years 25 million guaranteed) is somewhat consistent with what they gave Graham. Maybe Watt gets 20 million somewhere and you wish him luck, but if you can get him for 12-15 million you do it.

Y’all best be preparing for the double Watt letdown...just saying man

Yeah, I'm getting the feeling they'll do enough to clear cap room for signing rookies and that's it.  Then they'll draft every other position except DT and ILB.

The defense needs some leadership.

@YooperPackfan posted:

Y’all best be preparing for the double Watt letdown...just saying man

It'll be the Leonhard/Watt double gut punch for all the Badger Bros.

Throw in a little James White letdown, too.

You would really hate to cheer on all those former Badgers wouldn't you?   

Don’t get me wrong, I still hope we get him but it never really works out for us

Never?  Reggie White (RIP) says "Hello".

Guess you forgot about the salary cap thing.