Available WR who might fit...
Will Fuller, MIA
Juju Smith-Schuster, PIT
Jamison Crowder, NYJ
Jarvis Landry, CLE
Cordarrelle Patterson, ATL
Julio Jones, TEN
Patterson is more of a Deebo guy...can do many things. Julio has been injured a lot the last two seasons. Landry has the most sizzle, but Fuller may be the best fit. Give Crowder a good QB...he may be a sneaky star in the making.
It takes a while to evaluate a trade and I know this board knows the history but remember when GB gave up 2 1's for John Jefferson and traded him to Cleveland for a 7th three years later? We shall see ( I still remember waking up to the news of this trade and thinking GB was on the way but w/o a defense Jefferson was just another lane in the track meet and 17 might find the same situation! Especially as he wanted this trade!
I was giddy about the trade for Jefferson as a kid because I knew what the Chargers offense was doing and because of Jefferson's penchant for the circus catch. He was alright in GB but I heard/read that he was not too happy about the move and got fat and slow and never looked the same.
Playing for the Raiders was apparently 17's lifelong dream. I'm sure he knows what he's getting into. Good for him. But he will be missed.
If Adams was dead set on not wanting to return to GB - as some of the reports seem to suggest- then getting a 1 and 2 this year and saving 25+M per year is pretty brilliant by FO standards. Let’s also not forget this is not Adams at 25. He’s basically 30 years old and it’s not like his ascending anymore.
Those two picks give them plenty of ammo now to move up in the top half of R1 if they so desire or they can simply stay put and take BPA. Most mock drafts have Olave being selected somewhere in the high teens to low 20s so if GB wants him they could use the Raiders 1 and maybe their 3rd rounder to move up and get him.
There seems to be a few decent other WR prospects from late 1st round through R2 so they can always stay where they are and take the best guy that’s there.
@Chongo posted:Available WR who might fit...
Will Fuller, MIA
Juju Smith-Schuster, PIT
Jamison Crowder, NYJ
Jarvis Landry, CLE
Cordarrelle Patterson, ATL
Julio Jones, TEN
Patterson is more of a Deebo guy...can do many things. Julio has been injured a lot the last two seasons. Landry has the most sizzle, but Fuller may be the best fit. Give Crowder a good QB...he may be a sneaky star in the making.
Sammy Watkins, TY Hilton and MVS also out there.
If it's not Fuller or Landry, I would think Gute considers a trade. Then names like Terry McLaurin, DK Metcalf, I'd assume the Packers would look at.
With the Packers sitting at 22, they can also go grab someone like Chris Olave who is as close as there is as a "ready" WR now. We've seen more rookie WR's be impactful right out the gate. I don't think that's a reach with Rodgers throwing the ball and this MLF offense.
You'd also have to think they upgrade at TE.
Have we heard how Tonyans rehab is going?
How quickly can Rodgers gain Olave's trust?
A trade for Metcalf was on my mind, as well. Will Seattle really go full rebuild, or do they think maybe Malik can duplicate what Russell did?
In theory they could also take a tank year to get to next year’s QB class, but would Metcalf or the turning-30 Lockett be down with that?
@Chongo posted:Available WR who might fit...
Will Fuller, MIA
Juju Smith-Schuster, PIT
Jamison Crowder, NYJ
Jarvis Landry, CLE
Cordarrelle Patterson, ATL
Julio Jones, TEN
Patterson is more of a Deebo guy...can do many things. Julio has been injured a lot the last two seasons. Landry has the most sizzle, but Fuller may be the best fit. Give Crowder a good QB...he may be a sneaky star in the making.
Fuller is interesting since they reportedly tried to trade for him at one point.
have Julio add 20 pounds and put him at TE
I would think we need at least 2 FAs and a couple draft picks as well at the WR and TE positions. These position groups at this time are hot garbage and we have other needs as well (DT, RT, etc.). I'm glad they got what they did but the odds of a couple of draft picks ever having the impact the Adams would have (especially in the short term) are very slim and we likely only have a couple years left with AR. I wouldn't mind seeing them trade some draft capital for proven commodities as well if they need to.
I wonder if there is any snowball's chance in hell that MLF and AR sat down, looked at the NFCCG tape and realized you can't force the ball to 17 on a regular basis and that doing so actually holds the offense back.
Love for DK
throw in Kevin King to sweeten the deal
@Chongo posted:Available WR who might fit...
Will Fuller, MIA
Juju Smith-Schuster, PIT
Jamison Crowder, NYJ
Jarvis Landry, CLE
Cordarrelle Patterson, ATL
Julio Jones, TEN
Patterson is more of a Deebo guy...can do many things. Julio has been injured a lot the last two seasons. Landry has the most sizzle, but Fuller may be the best fit. Give Crowder a good QB...he may be a sneaky star in the making.
That list has me about as excited as…yawn. Zzzzzzzz…
My thing is - did the FO fail to read the room again with DA? They didn’t know he didn’t want to be there no matter how much they were going to offer? They should have been working the phones for another #1 receiver like Robinson. The team didn’t get better without DA, it got worse - so much for going all in. If this is their definition of going all in with AR being the best chance at a SB, the strategy sucks. Since it seems like we’re building for the future again, we should have just traded AR. Not going to win a SB with the garbage we have at WR, and there are no decent free agents out there as a #1 receiver option. Great, w get draft picks. That’s nice, but we’re clearly not deploying a very smart strategy for going all in. AR can’t throw the ball to himself, and even the best receivers that get drafted don’t truly become #1’s until their second year. I stand by my opinion we should have traded AR.
Add in Beckham and maybe Robert Woods both coming off an injury as possibilities. Maybe take an ex-OSU receiver like Olave or Wilson in the draft.
@Iowacheese posted:Fuller is interesting since they reportedly tried to trade for him at one point.
have Julio add 20 pounds and put him at TE
I like Fuller as a pure talent, but he’s a bit Randall Cobbish in that he’s hurt often enough you don’t know that you can really count on him when it really matters.
@packerboi posted:Sammy Watkins, TY Hilton and MVS also out there.
If it's not Fuller or Landry, I would think Gute considers a trade. Then names like Terry McLaurin, DK Metcalf, I'd assume the Packers would look at.
With the Packers sitting at 22, they can also go grab someone like Chris Olave who is as close as there is as a "ready" WR now. We've seen more rookie WR's be impactful right out the gate. I don't think that's a reach with Rodgers throwing the ball and this MLF offense.
You'd also have to think they upgrade at TE.
None of those are good #1 receiver options though.
If you look at every other position group outside of WR/TE and special teams, the Packers have probably the most talented roster in the NFL.
On defense, they may end up with the best secondary in football. They (finally) have an impact player in the LB core, one of the best interior defensive lineman in football, and R. Gary is clearly an ascending edge rusher. This is the best defense they've had since 2010. Of the 12 main players (nickel defense), 6 of them would start for every other team in the NFL and are at least borderline Pro Bowlers (Clark, Gary, Campbell, Stokes, Alexander, Douglas). Preston Smith, Amos, and Savage are not weak links either. They need another DL to go with Dean Lowry. I'm not a huge Barnes or Lowry fan, but they are your two worst players on defense you are in decent shape. Slaton is a good rotation guy as well.
On offense, they have the MVP at QB, two All-Pro level RBs, and two guys (if healthy) who are easily in the top 10 OL in the NFL. The rest of the line is fairly promising with no Spriggs-like turnstiles ( Myers, Newman, Nijman, Runyan, Van Lane).
This is countered by what might have been the worst position group in football even with Davante Adams (WR/TE). The biggest problem they had, even last year, was a complete lack of speed at those positions when MVS was out. That would be my fear with Adams on a big contract is that he's pretty slow to begin with and if he loses a step he becomes a James Jones circa-2016 type guy very quickly.
I think you could cut all of their current players at those positions and sign guys available right now at less than 5 million each and be better. Cobb and M. Lewis should not be on the roster. Lazard is great in the run game, but one of the slowest receivers in football. Amari Rodgers? DeGuara? Tonyan won't be ready until mid-year even if he's back.
Let's see what the FO can do about this. If there's a silver lining in this, it's that if there is one position you can coach up by scheming it's WR.
Maybe you sign or draft an elite FB and really become a Shanahan offense. The top FBs are really cheap compared to other position groups. You also really do need a speed guy at WR, and I don't want any part of MVS at 5 million plus. He's too fragile.
Finally, we've always said on this board that Rodgers plays best when he has a chip on his shoulder. With a lot of people saying that he's going to fail without Adams, it may make him play with an even big chip even coming off MVP seasons.
Seahawks would probably part with DK Metcalf for the #22 overall pick we possess. You still draft a WR early for development, but then between him and Lazard you have a legit 1-2 WR tandem.
Really good article on this from Barnwell.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story...eiver-means-afc-more
Jones is only one wide receiver, so that's an anecdote, but let's take it a step further. Adams was a Pro Bowler last year in his age-29 season. So was Jones. Since 1990, 38 wide receivers (leaving aside wideouts who made it for special teams contributions) have been named to the Pro Bowl in their respective age-29 seasons. How many of them stayed at that level for years to come?
Using fantasy points as a proxy for wide receiver performance, the answer is not many. Of those 38 wide receivers who were stars at 29, 24 failed to produce a single top-five performance afterward. That includes Hall of Fame-caliber wideouts such as Tim Brown, Isaac Bruce, Reggie Wayne, Andre Johnson, A.J. Green and Larry Fitzgerald. Guys who were perennially top-five or top-10 wideouts such as Gary Clark and Chad Johnson never came close to that mark again.
@Harry Manback posted:None of those are good #1 receiver options though.
Terry Mclaurin managed nearly 80 catches and over 1000 yards with a Favre fan boy throwing to him last season. He's a legit #1 if the Commanders wanted a trade.
DK out of Seattle racked up 12 TDS last season and mainly runs go routes, but he'd be an instant upgrade over Lazard.
I do not want Gute trading a premium pick just for the sake of a trade. It has to be the right fit, and likely a younger WR who still has plenty of premium years left.
My guess is it's one of these FA WRs and Gute keeps these high picks he just got. Then uses one to draft a WR in round 1
@Harry Manback posted:My thing is - did the FO fail to read the room again with DA? They didn’t know he didn’t want to be there no matter how much they were going to offer? They should have been working the phones for another #1 receiver like Robinson. The team didn’t get better without DA, it got worse - so much for going all in. If this is their definition of going all in with AR being the best chance at a SB, the strategy sucks. Since it seems like we’re building for the future again, we should have just traded AR. Not going to win a SB with the garbage we have at WR, and there are no decent free agents out there as a #1 receiver option. Great, w get draft picks. That’s nice, but we’re clearly not deploying a very smart strategy for going all in. AR can’t throw the ball to himself, and even the best receivers that get drafted don’t truly become #1’s until their second year. I stand by my opinion we should have traded AR.
In Tampa Bay, going all in meant signing free agents and trading draft picks for players like Gronk and JPP before winning the SB in 2020.
In LA, the Rams traded high draft picks for Stafford, Von Miller, Ramsey, etc. in winning the 2021 SB.
In GB, going ALL IN apparently means accumulating as many draft picks as possible (currently have 11 but there is still a month til the draft) including by trading away one of the top players on the team and then picking over the scraps left at TE & WR and selling those scraps to the fan base as filet mignon.
No NFL team refuses to trade draft picks for players like the Green Bay Packers.
Losing Adam’s hurts, but that pain does not justify horrible takes
And don’t forget the rams just for a lot better at WR by smartly jumping on Robinson.
Heard this on Bill Simmons this morning. Adams gets a big payday, one that it appears he could have received in GB. In GB he was targeted 169 times last year, 149 the year before,why, because he was basically the only target. In Vegas Carr has Renfoe and Waller who are pretty good and reliable thus Adams will be able to reduce his workload, extend his career and still be a big cog in the team. For a soon to be 30 year old this may have played into his decision.
@SteveLuke posted:In Tampa Bay, going all in meant signing free agents and trading draft picks for players like Gronk and JPP before winning the SB in 2020.
In LA, the Rams traded high draft picks for Stafford, Von Miller, Ramsey, etc. in winning the 2021 SB.
In GB, going ALL IN apparently means accumulating as many draft picks as possible (currently have 11 but there is still a month til the draft) including by trading away one of the top players on the team and then picking over the scraps left at TE & WR and selling those scraps to the fan base as filet mignon.
No NFL team refuses to trade draft picks for players like the Green Bay Packers.
I am sure there is room for you on those bandwagon franchises. Geez Steve. Tampa was all in last year with Gronk, JPP and AB. How did that work out for them? AB quit on them in the middle of a game. That should make that all in bandwagon team proud. How people get their panties in a wad over stuff they have no control over is just stupid. Sometimes shit happens in football even if everything was done perfectly. But there is always room for someone like you to stand on your soap box and scream at the sky AFTER everything is settled. SMH
Really interesting that they both played exactly the same number of games for the franchise.
@"We"-Ka-Bong posted:
And Hutson played in an era where the rules did NO favors to the WR position compared to today. Don was really an incredible player.
@MichiganPacker posted:If you look at every other position group outside of WR/TE and special teams, the Packers have probably the most talented roster in the NFL.
On defense, they may end up with the best secondary in football. They (finally) have an impact player in the LB core, one of the best interior defensive lineman in football, and R. Gary is clearly an ascending edge rusher. This is the best defense they've had since 2010. Of the 12 main players (nickel defense), 6 of them would start for every other team in the NFL and are at least borderline Pro Bowlers (Clark, Gary, Campbell, Stokes, Alexander, Douglas). Preston Smith, Amos, and Savage are not weak links either. They need another DL to go with Dean Lowry. I'm not a huge Barnes or Lowry fan, but they are your two worst players on defense you are in decent shape. Slaton is a good rotation guy as well.
On offense, they have the MVP at QB, two All-Pro level RBs, and two guys (if healthy) who are easily in the top 10 OL in the NFL. The rest of the line is fairly promising with no Spriggs-like turnstiles ( Myers, Newman, Nijman, Runyan, Van Lane).
This is countered by what might have been the worst position group in football even with Davante Adams (WR/TE). The biggest problem they had, even last year, was a complete lack of speed at those positions when MVS was out. That would be my fear with Adams on a big contract is that he's pretty slow to begin with and if he loses a step he becomes a James Jones circa-2016 type guy very quickly.
I think you could cut all of their current players at those positions and sign guys available right now at less than 5 million each and be better. Cobb and M. Lewis should not be on the roster. Lazard is great in the run game, but one of the slowest receivers in football. Amari Rodgers? DeGuara? Tonyan won't be ready until mid-year even if he's back.
Let's see what the FO can do about this. If there's a silver lining in this, it's that if there is one position you can coach up by scheming it's WR.
Maybe you sign or draft an elite FB and really become a Shanahan offense. The top FBs are really cheap compared to other position groups. You also really do need a speed guy at WR, and I don't want any part of MVS at 5 million plus. He's too fragile.
Finally, we've always said on this board that Rodgers plays best when he has a chip on his shoulder. With a lot of people saying that he's going to fail without Adams, it may make him play with an even big chip even coming off MVP seasons.
We have one stud dlineman. The rest are average at best. This is a very weak unit.
My first thought after hearing about the trade was why keep AR if you’re going to let DA leave. However what must be considered is this:
1) As has been said, maybe DA didn’t want to come back after the tag and/or lack of getting a deal done last year. If they had given him what he apparently wanted, could they field a team along side of AR/DA that could win a Superb Owl?
2) Maybe during AR’s recent cleanse/soul searching, his only two choices were playing for the Packers on a huge contract or retiring. Maybe he decided that being traded wasn’t what he wanted. It’s possible he told the FO, that very thing and that’s why there were “no trade offers” per Guys. If so, what options did they have? Tell him they wouldn’t pay him and go ahead and retire? I don’t know what that would have done to the cap.
Lots of talk about DA turning down more money in GB. We don’t know shit about NFL contracts, but I do know that two 140 million dollar contracts can be very, very different in terms of actual money.
The Packers have won games without stars like Davante Adams, Aaron Jones, David Bakhtiari, etc - because it's a SYSTEM that works!
— Ben Fennell (@BenFennell_NFL) March 18, 2022
Motion, Bunches/Stacks, RPOs, Balanced Run/Pass, Horizontal Pass Game, RBs in Pass Game, Play Sequencing, Personnel Diversity... Helps everyone win!
Matt LaFleur + Aaron Rodgers are what make the Packers offense tick... That's the marriage of talent/scheme
— Ben Fennell (@BenFennell_NFL) March 18, 2022
The 4-0 start to 2020 was a great example... The offensive star rotated weekly - Adams, Jones, Lazard, Tonyan, MVS - because the SCHEME works when the QB is buying in...
I find this lovefest over Robinson pretty hilarious. Everyone seems so devastated that GB missed out on him with the loss of Adams. Have I missed something? Guy is solid, but isn’t the 2nd Coming and I doubt the gap between him and some other guys still available is that huge.
@packerboi posted:And Hutson played in an era where the rules did NO favors to the WR position compared to today. Don was really an incredible player.
I'd put Hutson #2 all time behind only Rice. Tough competition for any WR to compare against.
The contract in WI had to be more to equal what the Raiders were paying since the state takes 7-some-odd percent, and Nevada has no income tax.
Maybe he just wanted to get closer to family, warmer climate, play with his BFF, play for his childhood team...myriad of reasons...the only one that matters is he's gone, we saved a fuck-ton of money from the our already strapped cap-position, and we get two fucking premium draft picks to build for the future.
I am not looking at 2022-23 as the year we must win the Super Bowl but maybe you get the pieces in place so that in 2023-24 an 2024-25 you are really fucking good because you drafted a top 5 NFL WR, and a top 5 NFL TE, and have extended all you key pieces like Jaire, Campbell, Amos, etc.
And maybe Davante never sees the playoffs again because you are in the toughest league in the NFL with Chargers, Broncos and Chefs.
Quite honestly, I am relieved it turned out this way. Tae is a great kid, great human being...if this is what makes him happy, it's what he deserves to happen. And the Packers got a great deal. Total win-win IMO.
@Pikes Peak posted:Heard this on Bill Simmons this morning. Adams gets a big payday, one that it appears he could have received in GB. In GB he was targeted 169 times last year, 149 the year before,why, because he was basically the only target. In Vegas Carr has Renfoe and Waller who are pretty good and reliable thus Adams will be able to reduce his workload, extend his career and still be a big cog in the team. For a soon to be 30 year old this may have played into his decision.
I'm sure Adams also knows that Carr's going to stick around longer than Rodgers will Having someone throw to him he already knows and trusts and won't be considering retirement anytime soon is most likely a plus in his mind.
While Rodgers said he didn't want to be part of a rebuild, it seems Adams cared about that even more.
and who posted that little item about JJ knew what Davante wanted or didn’t want. JJ kept saying that Davante was NOT going to play with that tag.
There were reports two weeks ago that Adams bought a $12m house in LV. So all of this has been in the works for a long time. Kudos to the clubs for keeping it secret.
@MichiganPacker posted:If you look at every other position group outside of WR/TE and special teams, the Packers have probably the most talented roster in the NFL.
On defense, they may end up with the best secondary in football. They (finally) have an impact player in the LB core, one of the best interior defensive lineman in football, and R. Gary is clearly an ascending edge rusher. This is the best defense they've had since 2010. Of the 12 main players (nickel defense), 6 of them would start for every other team in the NFL and are at least borderline Pro Bowlers (Clark, Gary, Campbell, Stokes, Alexander, Douglas). Preston Smith, Amos, and Savage are not weak links either. They need another DL to go with Dean Lowry. I'm not a huge Barnes or Lowry fan, but they are your two worst players on defense you are in decent shape. Slaton is a good rotation guy as well.
On offense, they have the MVP at QB, two All-Pro level RBs, and two guys (if healthy) who are easily in the top 10 OL in the NFL. The rest of the line is fairly promising with no Spriggs-like turnstiles ( Myers, Newman, Nijman, Runyan, Van Lane).
This is countered by what might have been the worst position group in football even with Davante Adams (WR/TE). The biggest problem they had, even last year, was a complete lack of speed at those positions when MVS was out. That would be my fear with Adams on a big contract is that he's pretty slow to begin with and if he loses a step he becomes a James Jones circa-2016 type guy very quickly.
I think you could cut all of their current players at those positions and sign guys available right now at less than 5 million each and be better. Cobb and M. Lewis should not be on the roster. Lazard is great in the run game, but one of the slowest receivers in football. Amari Rodgers? DeGuara? Tonyan won't be ready until mid-year even if he's back.
Let's see what the FO can do about this. If there's a silver lining in this, it's that if there is one position you can coach up by scheming it's WR.
Maybe you sign or draft an elite FB and really become a Shanahan offense. The top FBs are really cheap compared to other position groups. You also really do need a speed guy at WR, and I don't want any part of MVS at 5 million plus. He's too fragile.
Finally, we've always said on this board that Rodgers plays best when he has a chip on his shoulder. With a lot of people saying that he's going to fail without Adams, it may make him play with an even big chip even coming off MVP seasons.
This is a really insightful post.
Assuming Rasul is signed, agree 100% with everything you say about the defense being the most talented on paper in a decade.
If Gutey could somehow overcome the Front Office's love affair with the overpaid mediocrity that is Dean Lowry and provide Kenny Clark with a legitimate partner the D could be special.
Regarding the defense, I think you overrate the RBs. I love Aaron Jones, but he was not as good in 2021 as he was in previous years and he is at the age a lot of RBs begin declining. I like Dillon as a complementary back but he is nowhere near an All-Pro. He lacks the explosiveness to ever be at that level. I'd like to see a mid-round pick who could take it to the house added to the mix.
I think you also overrate an OL that has some definite talent but has also suffered some serious injuries and is in flux. I hope Bakh returns to his pre-ACL form, but he is no youngster and there is no guarantee that he will. Jenkins gonna be ready by Sept.? Doubt it. Myers rookie year was marked mostly by his absences due to injury. All 3 guys are talented, but all 3 have injury concerns. I like Runyan, but am not sold on Newman or anyone else at guard. If Yosh could take over at RT, Bakh returns to form at LT, Jenkins at LG, Myers comes on at C, and Runyan can transition to RG then yeah this could be a good group but that is a lot of IFs.
Finally, you absolutely nailed how horrible the current TE & WR groups are. Never thought of it that way, but if they got rid of the lot of them and started from scratch no one would really notice or care. They are that devoid of talent.
I'll leave it to the ducky and bunny crowd to explain how it is going to get all better by adding another mediocre plodder like Juju or another (injury-prone) slot receiver like Landry or a nothing special about him Austin Hooper.
And finally, you failed to mention Special Teams and I can understand why. There is no competent return man on roster. Gute just lost his super-special 3rd round pick STs stud Burks and the coverage units were already the worst in the NFL. Crosby is old, expensive and coming off (another) bad season. Then again Bisaccia appears to have an actual clue to coach STs which is the first time that has been true in GB in 15 years, so at least there is hope.
Just weird how a team that is supposedly going ALL IN seems to have such gaping roster holes ... and more draft picks than any other team in the NFC.
Almost, almost, like the Packers are not really going ALL IN ... yet again.
