Rodgers Wants A New Contract?

@CUPackFan posted:

Oh and the idea that Rodgers hasn't been given enough weapons is a media created myth based solely on "no 1st round WR/TE/RB".

Yeah, nobody is arguing that.  I think very few Packers fans believes that argument holds any merit.

EDIT:  My complaint is they continue to refuse to finish the job creating a top tier defense.  Gunt's move in FA were excellent but then he completely ignored the middle of the defense.  Just idiotic.

@SteveLuke posted:

Starting to feel real bad for MLF.

Well if you recall, when the Packers picked Love, the cameras went directly on MLF and stayed on him a good few moments.  He was really, really excited and pumping his fists, and it went on and on.  This is the first thing Rodgers saw and you could see LaFleur was likely directly involved in the decision and really excited about it.  Watching that, you couldn't help but think, "This guy wants his own quarterback, and just got what he wants."

Remember at the time,  AR wasn't fully on board with the new offense, by his own admission and by everyone's account at the time.  He was executing it yes, and getting there, but he was still trying to put his own tweaks on it, and there was still a little bit of a power struggle going on.

Flash forward, the season starts, Rodgers tells reporters he found his Zen with everything, and executes the offense completely how LaFleur wants.  And he said it multiple times during the season: "This is 100% his offense we are running now."  And it worked.

Flash forward some more, it's time to pick the MVP, and Rodgers looks right at the cameras and tells them, 'It would really mean a lot considering everything that happened before the season" (or words to that effect).  He wanted it bad.  He wanted redemption.

Flash forward some more, the season ends a couple yards short of the Super Bowl, and he foreshadows the drama to come by saying he might not be back. It's like he's standing there thinking, "Time for my revenge."

And that's what all this is, revenge.  Revenge against Gute, but I'd say also revenge against LaFleur, the guy jumping around on tv when they selected Jordan Love.

Also, arguably it was MLF who should have made the call to Rodgers about the pick, not Gute (and I agree he should not have seen it on tv).  The coach is the one who deals directly with the players,  and he should have done so for something like this.  But MLF obviously didn't want to do that.  And it looked like part of it may have been purposeful at Rodgers, as in, "Don't want to buy in? How do you like this? Screw you Aaron."   

That's probably a stretch, but maybe a little bit?  We know for sure that's how Rodgers took it.  In his mind, it was a big fat fuck you right to his face.

Flash forward some more, and it sounds to me like Rodgers wanted apologies and his ass kissed by Murphy, MLF and Gute, making each one of them fly to California to do so.  In Rodgers mind they all owed him a major ass-kissing, and obviously they weren't able to do that to his satisfaction.

Flash forward to yesterday, and Rodgers is at the Kentucky Derby as calm and happy as a human being can possibly be, obviously relishing the torture he is causing everyone, and clearly enjoying the shit out of his sweet revenge.

And so here we are now as fans, bearing the brunt of it, and suffering this ego-driven interpersonal battle between those 4 guys , all of them millionaires.  Yay team.  Our only hope is that AR can swallow his pride and think less of himself and more of his teammates.

Again, they weren't running Mayo's offense, they were running a hybrid of McVince and what Mayo was trying to implement.  It was for the ENTIRE offense, not just Rodgers, all who had been playing in McVince's offense for years.

I do think there is some merit to LaFleur wanting a QB who would totally "buy in" ... and admittedly AR was not that guy in their first year. The 2 main points of contention were 1) Motion - McStupidface never used it and for whatever reason AR didn't like it 2) AR had never turned his back to the defense on run fakes as is done in this offense, he always wanted to see the defense to decide where he was going with the ball. AR "bought in" this year....perhaps unexpectedly and now LaFeur & front office have to deal with ramifications of the Love pick

@Pistol GB posted:

Well if you recall, when the Packers picked Love, the cameras went directly on MLF and stayed on him a good few moments.  He was really, really excited and pumping his fists, and it went on and on.  This is the first thing Rodgers saw and you could see LaFleur was likely directly involved in the decision and really excited about it.  Watching that, you couldn't help but think, "This guy wants his own quarterback, and just got what he wants."

Remember at the time,  AR wasn't fully on board with the new offense, by his own admission and by everyone's account at the time.  He was executing it yes, and getting there, but he was still trying to put his own tweaks on it, and there was still a little bit of a power struggle going on.

Flash forward, the season starts, Rodgers tells reporters he found his Zen with everything, and executes the offense completely how LaFleur wants.  And he said it multiple times during the season: "This is 100% his offense we are running now."  And it worked.

Flash forward some more, it's time to pick the MVP, and Rodgers looks right at the cameras and tells them, 'It would really mean a lot considering everything that happened before the season" (or words to that effect).  He wanted it bad.  He wanted redemption.

Flash forward some more, the season ends a couple yards short of the Super Bowl, and he foreshadows the drama to come by saying he might not be back. It's like he's standing there thinking, "Time for my revenge."

And that's what all this is, revenge.  Revenge against Gute, but I'd say also revenge against LaFleur, the guy jumping around on tv when they selected Jordan Love.

Also, arguably it was MLF who should have made the call to Rodgers about the pick, not Gute (and I agree he should not have seen it on tv).  The coach is the one who deals directly with the players,  and he should have done so for something like this.  But MLF obviously didn't want to do that.  And it looked like part of it may have been purposeful at Rodgers, as in, "Don't want to buy in? How do you like this? Screw you Aaron."   

That's probably a stretch, but maybe a little bit?  We know for sure that's how Rodgers took it.  In his mind, it was a big fat fuck you right to his face.

Flash forward some more, and it sounds to me like Rodgers wanted apologies and his ass kissed by Murphy, MLF and Gute, making each one of them fly to California to do so.  In Rodgers mind they all owed him a major ass-kissing, and obviously they weren't able to do that to his satisfaction.

Flash forward to yesterday, and Rodgers is at the Kentucky Derby as calm and happy as a human being can possibly be, obviously relishing the torture he is causing everyone, and clearly enjoying the shit out of his sweet revenge.

And so here we are now as fans, bearing the brunt of it, and suffering this ego-driven interpersonal battle between those 4 guys , all of them millionaires.  Yay team.  Our only hope is that AR can swallow his pride and think less of himself and more of his teammates.

Lots of good points in here and I especially agree that (A) MLF looked pumped when Love was selected and (B) there may have been some you don't want to buy into my vision ARod well here you go we just drafted your successor.

That said, if it was not Gutey who had the final say, and not MLF, in drafting Jordan Love then Gutey needs to be sent packing pronto.

That was a franchise-altering decision (and it is telling that it appears that the Packs FO and many of its most ardent backers seem oblivious to that fact) and should only have been made by Gutey or perhaps by Gutey in consultation with his superior Murphy.

And, whatever affront MLF may caused ARod, his contrition has apparently succeeded because they seemed to get along pretty well all last season and you don't hear Rodgers' camp bitching about MLF (or really Murphy) as opposed to Gutey.

Finally, I completely disagree that "Our only hope is that AR can swallow his pride and think less of himself and more of his teammates."

I believe one of two things are likely to happen.

Either A Gutey is going to swallow his pride (or Murphy is going to order him to swallow it) for the good of the franchise and Rodgers' teammates and concede he drafted Aaron's successor too soon (by the Packers extending Rodgers contract to the point it renders Love's rookie deal attraction moot) or B the Packers will begin putting their Rodgers' departure plans into overdrive (don't know if that means a trade next month or in 8 months yet but it means a trade soon enough).

Up to this past week I’ve resisted the urge to pile on all of the Rodgers haters like Skip Bayless and Greg Jennings bit I have to admit - it’s possible he’s been quite the jerk this whole time and now the chickens are finally coming home to roost.  

I also don’t think Rodgers is directing all of his hatred toward Gute alone.  You know the MLF play call (kicking the FG) bugged the shit out of 12 and I’m sure Murphy playing buddy buddy with Russ Ball didn’t help matters either.  

That’s why it isn’t as simple as “fire Gute” because of the other slappies involved.

The FO failed completely.  I'm not in the "fire Gunt" camp, I'm in the fire the whole fucking FO camp.  While it's being labeled as a power struggle between Gunt and Rodgers I see it as taking action to prevent this organization from falling off a cliff.

If this is the kind of management and decision making occurring does anyone believe this team isn't heading towards a decline?  Again, that is another huge wart Rodgers has been covering up.

@Tschmack posted:

Up to this past week I’ve resisted the urge to pile on all of the Rodgers haters like Skip Bayless and Greg Jennings bit I have to admit - it’s possible he’s been quite the jerk this whole time and now the chickens are finally coming home to roost.  

Really?  Now you think Bayless has credibility?  Okay. 

You could've said Jennings take had merit, which it does but fucking Bayless? 

Pretty sure you're looking for a narrative and not an actual assessment of what's happening.

I think some of you are reading a little too deeply into the "tea leaves"

Relax a little bit & at some point Rodgers will be in front of a mic & camera. He WILL have to answer these questions at SOME POINT (unless he gets traded to Denver after June 1)

Agent Dunn can "leak" ANY bullshit he wants to & Rodgers will just sit around tight lipped until he can't be tight-lipped any longer....and THAT folks is when we will get to the bottom of this. Until then....relax a little bit. Much ado about nothing for now.

I know that with AR, this team has a legit shot at the SB next year.  Call me greedy, but I kinda want a SB.

I also know great organizations attend to culture and there seems to be a breakdown with the likely #1 catalyst to getting the SB next year.  This whole shitshow is a distraction to AR, Nub, the rookies and on and on. 

Rodgers isn't the first QB to be pissed about a pick "wasted" on the same position, the FO should have been better prepared. 

If we didn't have AR, we'd be clamoring to trade the future for a guy like him because this team is close. 

Some people LOVE reading the tea leaves.

@Henry posted:

Which Gunt failed spectacularly at.

Also, the Packers offered a restructure and not past 2021.  So guaranteed money up to 2022 was a bridge too far for the Triangle of Schmucks.

When they won't even fucking commit to 2 years it's pretty obvious Gunt is hell bent on getting rid of Rodgers.

You have no idea what the extension offered. None of us do.

@Boris posted:

I think some of you are reading a little too deeply into the "tea leaves"

Relax a little bit & at some point Rodgers will be in front of a mic & camera. He WILL have to answer these questions at SOME POINT (unless he gets traded to Denver after June 1)

Agent Dunn can "leak" ANY bullshit he wants to & Rodgers will just sit around tight lipped until he can't be tight-lipped any longer....and THAT folks is when we will get to the bottom of this. Until then....relax a little bit. Much ado about nothing for now.

1) I do hope it's all a chess move orchestrated by his agent, and it might very well be.  It's a pretty involved one if it is.

2) The last time he was in front of a mike was after the NFCC, when he was in full drama mode saying this could happen.  That wasn't a leak or a ploy; it was straight from the horse's mouth.

I'm also really hoping the squirming he is causing right now is payback enough for him.  There's no way any other team gives him the chance he has for another ring like this one does.  At some point he has to see that.

@H5 posted:

You have no idea what the extension offered. None of us do.

@Pistol GB posted:

There's no way any other team gives him the chance he has for another ring like this one does.  At some point he has to see that.

The 9ers disagree.

Short of firing the entire front office (which won’t happen) and getting rid of Jordan Love (probably won’t happen) what will it take to appease Rodgers?  

They’ve already talked to him or his agent about an extension, and from the reports that’s gone nowhere.  

The team did just about all that they could in the offseason to add and retain talent given their cap issues.  

I thought that they also went after positions of need in the draft as best they could.

If it ain’t enough, it will never be enough.  The quicker they can turn the page after June 1 the better.  

The best part about this whole ordeal is his easiest path to win a title is in GB.  It isn’t SF - especially given the fact GB would likely want multiple picks and good players back in return.  Denver?  Are you fucking kidding me?  Las Vegas?  LOL.

@Henry posted:

The 9ers disagree.

I guess, but that would mean starting over with a new offense.  This one is all geared up and ready to go, 3rd year in.

@Tschmack posted:

Short of firing the entire front office (which won’t happen) and getting rid of Jordan Love (probably won’t happen) what will it take to appease Rodgers?  

They’ve already talked to him or his agent about an extension, and from the reports that’s gone nowhere.  

The team did just about all that they could in the offseason to add and retain talent given their cap issues.  

I thought that they also went after positions of need in the draft as best they could.

If it ain’t enough, it will never be enough.  The quicker they can turn the page after June 1 the better.  

The best part about this whole ordeal is his easiest path to win a title is in GB.  It isn’t SF - especially given the fact GB would likely want multiple picks and good players back in return.  Denver?  Are you fucking kidding me?  Las Vegas?  LOL.

It isn't about Rodgers.  That ship has sailed.  It's about the future of the Packers organization as a whole

@Pistol GB posted:

I guess, but that would mean starting over with a new offense.  This one is all geared up and ready to go, 3rd year in.

Pretty sure Rodgers can handle it.

BTW, I don't disagree with you about being able to win it all with Mayo.  That's why this whole thing is mind boggling and infuriating.

@Henry posted:

Link

The negotiations have involved Rodgers' agent, Dave Dunn, flying to Green Bay to work on a deal. The goal for Rodgers: work out an extension to keep him in Green Bay and provide contractual security, as he did not want a restructure, per Rapoport. With the negotiations ongoing, other teams learned Rodgers was unhappy and called Green Bay to gauge his availability, to which they received denials.

The Packers eventually offered an extension, but no deal has been made, Rapoport added.

Read that and all the other reports with the same info. And that is the point, whenever it was offered/declined and whatever the details, none of us know. Which keeps us still back in Jan of 2020 when this AR wants a new contract dance started. The only difference, and it is not trivial, is that we are a year further along and Rodgers still doesn't have what he wants. Commitment and some control. Does he deserve it? Yes, I think he does, but I also believe the organization is limited to how much commitment and control they can offer.

This is a negotiation and rarely are both sides truly happy when a deal is struck. Both sides need to give.

Any failure on the Packers part lies solely with Murphy. Putting any of this on the trio is wrong IMO. Murphy set up the structure and each has a specific role with specific responsibilities.

Let’s not put all the cap problems on 12. This fucking masterpiece is the result of Gunt & Balls money skills and Murphy being too damn busy being strip mall mogul to pay attention. If the FO Dream Team is shitting blood over caponmics, they have no one to blame but themselves.

Just remember, if you blow it all up, things can get worse.  This idea that Gute is the worst GM in the league and any other moron off the street would be better is just not based in reality.  If you blow everything up, what's to stop this franchise from turning into the Browns?  Or Raiders?  We don't have an owner to right the ship like the Steelers, Ravens, etc.  You have a board that is elected by the shareholders and you'd be tasking them to hire the right president, to then hire the right GM, to then hire the right front office, coach and QB.  If that doesn't go right, there is nothing stopping this team from turning back the clock to the 80's. 

@Timpranillo posted:

So, one might argue, just take the entire hit in 2021, throw up the white flag, and tank for 2022.

Actually interesting you bring that up as this draft was generally looked at as pretty lean talent wise but 2022 is expected to be excellent.

@Chongo posted:

Let’s not put all the cap problems on 12. This fucking masterpiece is the result of Gunt & Balls money skills and Murphy being too damn busy being strip mall mogul to pay attention. If the FO Dream Team is shitting blood over caponmics, they have no one to blame but themselves.

I never understood why Ball gets the credit he does.  The only thing I remember about him before he came to Green Bay was how he ran the cap into the ground in New Orleans.

@CUPackFan posted:

Just remember, if you blow it all up, things can get worse.  This idea that Gute is the worst GM in the league and any other moron off the street would be better is just not based in reality.  If you blow everything up, what's to stop this franchise from turning into the Browns?  Or Raiders?  We don't have an owner to right the ship like the Steelers, Ravens, etc.  You have a board that is elected by the shareholders and you'd be tasking them to hire the right president, to then hire the right GM, to then hire the right front office, coach and QB.  If that doesn't go right, there is nothing stopping this team from turning back the clock to the 80's.

You think this FO isn't doing exactly that?  Like I said, Rodgers has covered a lot of warts by winning lots of games.  This isn't the first complete dumbfuckery on Murphy's part and Ball is a bean counter who thinks he's a GM.  As far as Gunt, he picked a hell of a mine field to learn how to kinda maybe learn the basics of management.  You generally don't fuck something up this big and survive it.

Murphy was back up for John Jones.  He wasn't some planned successor to Harlan.  The guy walked into a turn key operation and has been fucking up on a regular basis.  Rodgers winning games is what absolved him.

Good point.  Kinda forgot about the Jones situation post Harlan.  Obviously wasn't choice #1.

Say Gute sticks to his guns and attempts to control 100% of the situation. Refuses to commit to Rodgers. Trades Rodgers or Rodgers retires.

You’re putting Love in an almost impossible situation. When he struggles (and he will struggle) the entire situation explodes. You’re never putting that toothpaste back in the tube. I’ll bet Love wants no part of Rodgers retiring or being traded and he’s the starter in 2021. Nobody would want that without ever taking an NFL snap. It’s got disaster written all over it. Rodgers knows it  

Commit long term to Rodgers. He’s still one of the 3 best QBs in the NFL. He can win a SB. Maybe 2. If you lose Love then find another Love. You’ll probably never find another Rodgers.

@Boris posted:

Actually interesting you bring that up as this draft was generally looked at as pretty lean talent wise but 2022 is expected to be excellent.

That's the route I would take.  Getting more pieces in place to help Love would be a benefit.  If you can match him up with some higher draft picks it can only help him develop.

@ChilliJon posted:

Say Gute sticks to his guns and attempts to control 100% of the situation. Refuses to commit to Rodgers. Trades Rodgers or Rodgers retires.

You’re putting Love in an almost impossible situation. When he struggles (and he will struggle) the entire situation explodes. You’re never putting that toothpaste back in the tube. I’ll bet Love wants no part of Rodgers retiring or being traded and he’s the starter in 2021. Nobody would want that without ever taking an NFL snap. It’s got disaster written all over it. Rodgers knows it  

Commit long term to Rodgers. He’s still one of the 3 best QBs in the NFL. He can win a SB. Maybe 2. If you lose Love then find another Love. You’ll probably never find another Rodgers.

Honestly, I think this is part of the reason Gunt is drafting OLinemen like a mad man.  It least he won't get Love murdered in the pocket.

If that’s actually his line of thinking (and I can’t possibly for 1 second believe that’s his actual line of thinking) then Love best learn how to check out of a 9 man box. Fast. Because that’s all he’s gonna see until he can prove he can throw an NFL defense out of that kind of front.

Like I said. Handing the reigns over to a QB that’s never taken a live NFL snap who’s replacing a healthy and capable 1st ballot HOF’er who’s gone because of a dick measuring contest will almost certainly end badly.  

And before the “no one individual is bigger than the organization” crowd jumps me. That absolutely goes for Rodgers. 100% agree. It also goes for Murphy and Gute as well.

@Henry posted:

I never understood why Ball gets the credit he does.  The only thing I remember about him before he came to Green Bay was how he ran the cap into the ground in New Orleans.

People who are “good with money” are held in high regard, especially with people who have a fear of budgets and such. Same reason people fear math, and I am sure Balls is all too eager, like all money guys, to play on that power.

It’s a little like being an IT person...people are intimidated and quick to defer to the IT person because they are intimidated.

@CUPackFan posted:

Just remember, if you blow it all up, things can get worse.  This idea that Gute is the worst GM in the league and any other moron off the street would be better is just not based in reality.  If you blow everything up, what's to stop this franchise from turning into the Browns?  Or Raiders?  We don't have an owner to right the ship like the Steelers, Ravens, etc.  You have a board that is elected by the shareholders and you'd be tasking them to hire the right president, to then hire the right GM, to then hire the right front office, coach and QB.  If that doesn't go right, there is nothing stopping this team from turning back the clock to the 80's.

What’s to say the Packers wouldn’t turn into the Patriots?

Fear of change is never a valid reason to keep the status quo. But firing someone on a whim isn’t smart either.

@Henry posted:

I never understood why Ball gets the credit he does.  The only thing I remember about him before he came to Green Bay was how he ran the cap into the ground in New Orleans.

I agree.

@Boris posted:

It's become increasingly apparent to me.....

Montana was pissed off when Young was behind him.

Brady was pissed off when (Insert any QB) was behind him

Favre was pissed off when Rodgers was behind him.

Rodgers is pissed now that Love is behind him.

In all cases, these guys are pissed off because THEY KNOW THE GUY BEHIND HIM CAN PLAY!

Pretty much my final thought on this bullshit drama

It sounds as if I (and about 1 million others) are uniquely qualified to be a solution to this problem. 

1) I am retired and looking for a part time job.

2) I can't play so I should not be a threat to even the water boy. 

3) The thing I can do is hold a clip board and write stuff down.  They paid Pederson handsomely to do that for years. 

If AR has a problem with this then I would begin to think that maybe all these teams who take shlubs for QBs (and don't have deal with AR & Favre like issues) have life figured out. 

@FLPACKER posted:

Started way before Love

1) Not resigning Jordy

2) Not rehiring QB coach

3) No input at all in hiring GM

4) No input at all in hiring HC

5) Drafting Love when AR had said he wanted to finish his career in GB.

6) Not willing to give AR a restructured extension beyond this next season.

   He got no more "special treatment" than the long snapper. If you have an employee that is better at what he does than anyone in the world, is loved by his fellow employees, makes his fellow employees better, helps make your organization profitable, helps make your organization be held in high esteem, you sure as hell better give him "special treatment"..... or at least make him think you did.

Don't forget letting Randall Cobb walk.

@Chongo posted:

Let’s not put all the cap problems on 12. This fucking masterpiece is the result of Gunt & Balls money skills and Murphy being too damn busy being strip mall mogul to pay attention. If the FO Dream Team is shitting blood over caponmics, they have no one to blame but themselves.

Th cap problems of 2020/2021 are not really the fault of anyone in the Packers org, player or FO.

Cap by year

2016, $155mm

2017, $$167mm

2018, $177mm

2019, $188mm

2020, $198mm

2021, $182mm  Boom!

2022, estimates are ~ $200mm or more

2023, could he as high as ~$230mm

Many teams, who are historically good at managing the cap, were squeezed in '21. Yet, the Packers were able to resign Bakhtiari,  Jones, and redo a few other deals to get the space needed to sign their draft picks. All while also working to find a common ground with Rodgers. So, I don't see how they fucked this up from a cap perspective. They could still extend Rodgers, and when they find the structure and $$ that he likes [and he is going to have to give some if he wants more $$ in GB], he will sigh it.

He's playing for the Packers or not at all in '21. After that he's 38 and his best chance for more runs at the Owl are in GB.

@Henry posted:

The 9ers disagree.

@Pistol GB posted:

I guess, but that would mean starting over with a new offense.  This one is all geared up and ready to go, 3rd year in.

You couldn't be more wrong about the "new offense" The Niners run nearly EXACTLY the same offense. Different terminology? Most likely -- big deal. He's plug & play in SF & it's the exact reason John Lynch called the Packers to inquire even though it was a short phone call.

@SteveLuke posted:

Regarding 1 above, and then KC confirmed that "indication" by trading a QB who led the team to the playoffs in Alex Smith to Washington right after Mahomes' rookie year.

If as some Packer fans are apparently contending, the Packer truly believe Love has "Mahomes-like" potential, one would think Gutey would be actively working the phones to get the best deal possible for Rodgers so he could unleash his own "Mahomes-like" QB on the rest of the NFL ASAP just like KC did with Smith.

Alex Smith is a game manager QB. Always was. Rodgers is a 3X MVP coming off his 3rd MVP season. Moving on from Alex Smith and moving on from Aaron Rodgers are not remotely similar situations no matter what you think you have sitting on the bench.

@ChilliJon posted:

You’re putting Love in an almost impossible situation. When he struggles (and he will struggle) the entire situation explodes. You’re never putting that toothpaste back in the tube. I’ll bet Love wants no part of Rodgers retiring or being traded and he’s the starter in 2021. Nobody would want that without ever taking an NFL snap. It’s got disaster written all over it. Rodgers knows it  

The point you make is where I draw the line with AR. It's easy to defend someone that's looking out for their own interests. But 12 went through this with 4, and publicly stated how bad it stung him and how hard it was to get beyond it. He handled the situation in '07 better than anyone could have expected. Now we're 14 years on and either he's that self absorbed he doesn't realize the full spectrum of damage or he just doesn't care. I refuse to believe he hasn't thoroughly considered all aspects, which would mean he's perfectly willing to let the entire organization go up in flames. It's a shitty thing to do to Love and the fans, and the way the FO has handled it was a shitty thing to do to Love, and the fans.

Many of us have given Rodgers benefit of the doubt, and rightfully so, when the media has geared up and trashed him, and when the Green Bay Packers have slighted him on small issues and not so small issues. We've defended him when the critics said he got MM fired, even though odds are he had influence on that. So they bring in a guy who has to some degree resurrected Rodgers' late stage career.  They took out of character steps to go out and get quality FA on defense. Rodgers has done his part, he's made some effort to play the good soldier, and he should get credit for that. But how is using back channels and media moles to get back at your employer any different than Favre calling Millen or orchestrating his way to Minny?