@michiganjoe posted:If the reporting on Jake Kumerow is accurate it just confirms my view that moving on is the right thing to do.
You mean even if it's a fraction of the issue?
@michiganjoe posted:If the reporting on Jake Kumerow is accurate it just confirms my view that moving on is the right thing to do.
I don't think it's accurate, it is the usual media mountain out of a molehill.
It's true he pitched for Jake Kumerow and then they cut him, but to say it "drove him nuts" is ridiculous. He mentioned it once--once--months later, joking in response to a question about advocating for a receiver: "The last time I advocated for a player he ended up in Buffalo." It was a good-natured joke and nothing more.
The media is digging hard to add to the story. I'm confident this part is a nonissue.
problem is tb signed up with that understanding when he signed, no such agreement is in place with gb.
@Henry posted:You mean even if it's a fraction of the issue?
Phrase used in report was "death knell".
Kumerow 2020 stats. 1 target. 1 reception. 1 TD.
Touchdown Jesus flex.
Meaning the final straw. Or the end of a series of actions.
@michiganjoe posted:Phrase used in report was "death knell".
Silliness. That is an absolute mountain out of a molehill.
@michiganjoe posted:If the reporting on Jake Kumerow is accurate it just confirms my view that moving on is the right thing to do.
If the Packers' "braintrust" know that the SPECULATION that the cutting of Jake Kumerow in the summer of 2020 is the act that led Aaron Rodgers to not sign the "generous" extension it offered to him in the spring of 2021, it would be MANAGERIAL MALPRACTICE not to ship Rodgers' arse out of town for the best possible trade package ASAP.
The indisputable FACTS that MLF, Murph, and Gutey (repeatedly) have all announced in the last 4 days that they not only want Rodgers back but that HE WILL NOT BE TRADED under any circumstances -- and that Gute confirmed he rebuffed trade overtures from at least SF means 1 of 2 things.
Either (1) the reporting on Kumerow is BS or (2) the braintrust's NO TRADE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES stance signifies they are collectively brain dead.
I think there is a lot to criticize the Packers' FO for how it has operated over the past decade generally and in dealing with Rodgers more specifically.
But I don't believe for a minute that Murphy & Gute are so incompetent that they would not maximize the Packers' return for Rodgers if they truly believed that the cutting of Jake Kumerow was a key factor in his not agreeing to the contract extension they offered to him.
quite frankly, i think while it would be nice for gutey to have informed 12, i do also think 12 should get that they had no intent on taking him until the last sec - gutey should have called after but even that was a courtesy. 12 should get over it, i think yoko wants him to move, that's the bottom line.
That would be a metric ton of pussy whipped if this is all over a fiancee wanting him to chuck his HOF career just to move.
If he wanted to complain about dissatisfaction with personnel matters his team really should have leaked about Jordy Nelson or Randall Cobb.
Jake Kumerow? Seriously?
@pkr_north posted:quite frankly, i think while it would be nice for gutey to have informed 12, i do also think 12 should get that they had no intent on taking him until the last sec - gutey should have called after but even that was a courtesy. 12 should get over it, i think yoko wants him to move, that's the bottom line.
@SteveLuke posted:If the Packers' "braintrust" truly believes that the cutting of Jake Kumerow is the issue that caused Aaron Rodgers to not be willing to sign the "generous" extension it has offered to him, if would be MANAGERIAL MALPRACTICE not to ship his arse out of town for the best possible trade package ASAP.
The fact that MLF, Murph, and Gutey (repeatedly) have all announced in the last 4 days that they not only want Rodgers back but that HE WILL NOT BE TRADED under any circumstances and rebuffed overtures from at least SF means 1 of 2 things.
Either (1) the reporting on Kumerow is BS or (2) the braintrust's NO TRADE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES stance signifies they are collectively brain dead.
I think there is a lot to criticize the Packers' FO for how it has operated over the past decade generally and in dealing with Rodgers more specifically.
But I don't believe Murphy & Gute are so incompetent that they would not maximize the Packers' return for Rodgers if they were really convinced that the cutting of Jake Kumerow was a key factor driving his displeasure with the FO.
I don't think the Packers or Rodgers said it was an issue. It's only Ian Rappaport.
It is his opinion, his alone and it's off in left field.
@pkr_north posted:quite frankly, i think while it would be nice for gutey to have informed 12, i do also think 12 should get that they had no intent on taking him until the last sec - gutey should have called after but even that was a courtesy. 12 should get over it, i think yoko wants him to move, that's the bottom line.
I still say AR should not have been shocked the Packers could take a QB. He has to know that teams are going to eventually draft your replacement once you start getting towards the latter part of your 30s. Hell AR was a replacement QB so he of all people should understand that its going to happen eventually.
Should they have given him a heads up? probably would have been a great idea but they aren't obligated to do that. But, I do think it would have been a good idea to get in touch with him leading up the draft to let him know its very possible they might make a move for a QB.
As for the front office I still say I still say this is one of the best run franchises in the NFL and the job MLF and Gute have done to get the Packers back from the stale MM era has been pretty damn good. As much as I like the job they have done I am not entirely happy with how Murphy runs the show. I of course have nothing to base that upon but something doesn't seem right.
Kumerow thing feels like someone’s trolling Murph & Gute and it ain’t Rodgers.
Murph & Gute need to get the fuck in front of all this and show some fucking sense of control over the situation.
You got Adams tweeting cryptic shit now about appreciating what you got while you got it.
Shit Murphy. Get it together!
@Henry posted:That would be a metric ton of pussy whipped if this is all over a fiancee wanting him to chuck his HOF career just to move.
people have done a lot more than that because of that wonder drug...
@BrainDed posted:Murphy, Ball and Gute have fucked this beyond repair.
I'm for option 1. Gute's draft last year is inexcusable. You had just made it to the NFCCG and your response is to spend your round 1 and 2 picks on backups? I get that thinking ahead is a key component of long term success, but that is not a healthy balance and in the process you alienated your HOF leader and fucked the organization. This narrative that Rodgers wants weapons is bullshit. He never said that. I'm sure he wants contributors, not backups, punters and long snappers.
Gute is going to go down in history as the man who ended a nearly 3 decade run of excellence in Green Bay if the board doesn't act.
Yep, Maybe Rodgers is just tired of seeing leads disappear or teams holding leads without a chance to answer when opposing teams continually gash them up-and-over the middle because they continually field garbage ILBs behind only one decent lineman.
It would be interesting to see where this team would have been had they simply turned the page with MM after the Seattle debacle and had TT do the same (retire).
Outside of a few players like Kenny Clark (2016), and Aaron Jones (2017) there isn’t much to look at from the 2015-2017 drafts. Those 3 years were awful and of course overlooking a certain UW OLB lead to having to sign the Smiths at 118MM over 4 years. And invest the 12th overall pick in another OLB in Gary. Tying up that much $$ meant you couldn’t add another WR or DE or LB in free agency. Gute has been playing catch up ever since.
I’m not buying the Jake Kumerow thing. Although, as someone else mentioned I do recall Ruvell Martin and also Alex Van Pelt coming up.
I also read that Kyle Shanahan called MLF and was told “you’re wasting your time” on inquiring about Rodgers. I’m not sure Rodgers is all that enamored with MLF at the moment either.
i love me some ar, but he has been quiet in the nfcc games, both of them - he shoulders blame there. esp if he's steve austin, he needs to own the losses too. the best is supposed to rise up - like he does in all the regular season games. they got 3 int's on tb, offense did nothing. he has had the deer in the headlights looks in both of the nfcc games, 49ers were just better, but tb, we could have won that game. there's blame to go all around, not just ilb, even though that is valid.
This is a giant game of telephone.
It's never just a couple of things over a year.
This is the genesis of a small ember getting turned into a forest fire because media doing what it does.
Here's the vid from today of AJ Hawk on McAfee talking about it. Kumerow is brought up multiple times. Reminder, AJ was with Rodgers at the Derby this past weekend.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAcCdYdbtUg
The gist from this is Rodgers doesn't want to retire, Love himself has nothing to do with this, it's not about the money, he doesn't want Gute fired, it's basically death by 1000 paper cuts and the FO not listening to his feedback (and releasing Kumerow after AR talked him up is used as the example of this).
@Grave Digger posted:Ron Wolf would never have taken input from Favre, not even for a second. Ted wouldn’t have either.
We know Ted didn't because Favre pushed hard for the Moss trade and didn't get it. And part of that trade would have meant dealing Rodgers to Oakland. And it totally pissed of Favre when it didn't happen.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
I don’t think GB has offended Rodgers personally with their roster building, to say that would imply Rodgers is unhappy with his teammates. Rodgers seems to genuinely like and appreciate his teammates, even the ones that fans believe are in over their heads. He’s a reasonable guy and I think his attitude is probably: 1) I will work with you on the contract and maybe even give a discount if your attitude is to win a SB now at any cost or 2) If you’re not willing to do that, if you’re staying the course and looking long term then I want to be the highest paid player in the league and I want it all guaranteed through the end of my contract. By selecting Love GB signaled they are keeping their strategy and planning long term, but this is the price. Neither side is wrong. This idea Rodgers is steaming mad and being a diva and GB is full of hapless dopes is a media creation.
@pkr_north posted:i love me some ar, but he has been quiet in the nfcc games, both of them - he shoulders blame there. esp if he's steve austin, he needs to own the losses too. the best is supposed to rise up - like he does in all the regular season games. they got 3 int's on tb, offense did nothing. he has had the deer in the headlights looks in both of the nfcc games, 49ers were just better, but tb, we could have won that game. there's blame to go all around, not just ilb, even though that is valid.
We can talk about the Aaron Jones fumble or the decision to kick the FG, but I would argue the two biggest reasons they lost the NFC title game were the following.
1. David Bakhtiari tearing his ACL the previous month. This was obviously nobody's fault. If it doesn't happen, the Packers offense looks very different. Both OTs were having problems with the Bucs' pass rush. Having one of the top 10 pass blocking offensive tackles in NFL history would have changed the whole complexion of the Packers offense.
2. The Packers played a clearly dinged-up Kevin King. He's not a shut-down corner to being with, but he's not Randall/Goodson/Gunther-level bad when healthy. The main reason was that they felt that playing King at 70% (or whatever he was) was a better option than activating and playing Josh Jackson. Most of us on this board know only a fraction as much about evaluating talent as the Packers coaches, but it's been obvious for several years to even casual fans that Josh Jackson isn't good enough to play DB in the NFL (at least in Pettine's scheme). The fact he was even on the roster is an indictment of the Packers' front office. We all wanted to blame King, but the Bucs had enough depth to sit down Antoine Winfield Jr. in the title game because their backup was judged to be good enough to get by with. The Packers knew this was enough of a problem that they went out and signed 37-year-old Tramon Williams and probably would have activated him over Josh Jackson. If that was the case, why was Josh Jackson still on the team? deally, you could have used one of those first four rounds of draft picks that you used to draft your QB, RB, and TE of the future to get a guy that might be an improvement over Jackson. Or, failing that, sign a mid-tier free agent (heck even a lower-tier free agent) that might be a decent CB. That's what pissed me off most about the lost opportunity of last year. At least they turned over the ILB position and there was a chance the new guys would be an upgrade. They didn't even try to do that at CB.
Just my opinion. The best possible end game here is to flip Love to Denver for their 2nd in a loaded 2022 draft.
I don’t think Denver would go for it but it’s absolutely worth the ask.
Give Rodgers 3 years and a proclamation they are absolutely going to try and find his successor early in 2022 and he’s absolutely gonna be the QB in 2025 unless it happens sooner.
Love isn’t going to be traded unless someone offers a massive package of picks for him. Why would a team give a premium pick for a player that his team is willing to take a loss on without ever see him play a game only a year later?
If Aaron Rodgers has chemistry with Jake Kumero and wants him as the #5 WR, you keep fucking Jake Kumero over Malik Taylor or whovever the fuck else is #5.
Is it really worth it to frustrate the best QB to ever play the game over who the #5 WR is? Should Rodgers fuck off and stay out of roster choices? Maybe, but maybe chemistry is a real thing and maybe this guy should have a say in who he works well with.
I say you error on the side of giving QB1 the guy he wants over the GM keeping the #5 WR he wants.
@Grave Digger posted:Love isn’t going to be traded unless someone offers a massive package of picks for him. Why would a team give a premium pick for a player that his team is willing to take a loss on without ever see him play a game only a year later?
Because it was a massive mistake to pick him the first place for $1000, Alex.
@vitaflo posted:Here's the vid from today of AJ Hawk on McAfee talking about it. Kumerow is brought up multiple times. Reminder, AJ was with Rodgers at the Derby this past weekend.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAcCdYdbtUg
The gist from this is Rodgers doesn't want to retire, Love himself has nothing to do with this, it's not about the money, he doesn't want Gute fired, it's basically death by 1000 paper cuts and the FO not listening to his feedback (and releasing Kumerow after AR talked him up is used as the example of this).
K. Brought up (twice) as an example of “little things that add up over time.” Also more as in, didn’t tell them they were doing it right after he told the media he wanted him on the roster and would throw him the ball.
I get it I mean, the cut was a surprise to some and it seemed like a slap at AR under the circumstances even if it wasn’t.
Thanks for the link Vitaflo.
At this point, it's a relationship that's almost unsalvagable. There's not only too much media involved, but AR is talking as well if Hawk spends the weekend with him, comes back and starts spouting new things. AR knows what he's doing. He now wants out, for whatever reason, and he's willing to drive a wedge to get his way. For whatever reason -- ego, his pride, the chip on his shoulder getting bigger and bigger (Kumerow? Really?), etc. -- he's making reasons to leave. Remember, he always looked for things to use as motivation to play better; well, now he's finding different things to use as motivation to get out of GB.
His massive ego may be bruised, but he should buy a franchise before he starts running it.
@BrainDed posted:If Aaron Rodgers has chemistry with Jake Kumero and wants him as the #5 WR, you keep fucking Jake Kumero over Malik Taylor or whovever the fuck else is #5.
Is it really worth it to frustrate the best QB to ever play the game over who the #5 WR is? Should Rodgers fuck off and stay out of roster choices? Maybe, but maybe chemistry is a real thing and maybe this guy should have a say in who he works well with.
I say you error on the side of giving QB1 the guy he wants over the GM keeping the #5 WR he wants.
Agree. Especially since the other guy was eligible for the practice squad.
@Grave Digger posted:GB is full of hapless dopes is a media creation.
Murphy and Ball were fucking dopes before this whole episode. Gunt just kinda maybe joined the conversation.
@Grave Digger posted:Love isn’t going to be traded unless someone offers a massive package of picks for him. Why would a team give a premium pick for a player that his team is willing to take a loss on without ever see him play a game only a year later?
Make your first mistake your worst mistake.
@BrainDed posted:I say you error on the side of giving QB1 the guy he wants over the GM keeping the #5 WR he wants.
Rodgers also talked up Big Dog and how great he was, especially in the locker room and the Packers brought him back, and AR said he was surprised they did.
So they can't be totally ignoring him.
@Pistol GB posted:Agree. Especially since the other guy was eligible for the practice squad.
I think it was DARRIUS SHEPHERD. I realize this whole rift isn't over Kumerow, but thank sweet baby jesus that Gute told Rodgers to fuck off over Darrius Fucking Shepherd.
@MichiganPacker2 posted:We can talk about the Aaron Jones fumble or the decision to kick the FG, but I would argue the two biggest reasons they lost the NFC title game were the following.
1. David Bakhtiari tearing his ACL the previous month. This was obviously nobody's fault. If it doesn't happen, the Packers offense looks very different. Both OTs were having problems with the Bucs' pass rush. Having one of the top 10 pass blocking offensive tackles in NFL history would have changed the whole complexion of the Packers offense.
2. The Packers played a clearly dinged-up Kevin King. He's not a shut-down corner to being with, but he's not Randall/Goodson/Gunther-level bad when healthy. The main reason was that they felt that playing King at 70% (or whatever he was) was a better option than activating and playing Josh Jackson. Most of us on this board know only a fraction as much about evaluating talent as the Packers coaches, but it's been obvious for several years to even casual fans that Josh Jackson isn't good enough to play DB in the NFL (at least in Pettine's scheme). The fact he was even on the roster is an indictment of the Packers' front office. We all wanted to blame King, but the Bucs had enough depth to sit down Antoine Winfield Jr. in the title game because their backup was judged to be good enough to get by with. The Packers knew this was enough of a problem that they went out and signed 37-year-old Tramon Williams and probably would have activated him over Josh Jackson. If that was the case, why was Josh Jackson still on the team? deally, you could have used one of those first four rounds of draft picks that you used to draft your QB, RB, and TE of the future to get a guy that might be an improvement over Jackson. Or, failing that, sign a mid-tier free agent (heck even a lower-tier free agent) that might be a decent CB. That's what pissed me off most about the lost opportunity of last year. At least they turned over the ILB position and there was a chance the new guys would be an upgrade. They didn't even try to do that at CB.
Tramon Williams would've been better.
Trade Rodgers straight up to Seattle for Russell Wilson.
When he's behind that sieve of a line he might think, "Things weren't so bad in Wisconsin."
Keeping Darrius Shepherd over Kumerow was pretty stupid, but in the end irrelevant.
@Floridarob posted:people have done a lot more than that because of that wonder drug...
I think AR comes home complains to her and she's in his ear. "You need to do this, You need to do that"
@YATittle posted:Keeping Darrius Shepherd over Kumerow was pretty stupid, but in the end irrelevant.
Wrong.. It would have been irrelevant if they had kept the scrub that makes QB1 feel his input is valued. Since they did not give a fuck about making him feel appreciated / valued they kept scrub 2. Now it is very relevant.
We love to talk about 12's ego, but Gute's ego thinking that Darrius Shepherd was important to keep because his talent evaluation must be dead on is also a problem here.