Think the best (and maybe only) move at this point is to maximize the return for AR and move on.
Keep reading and seeing people calling the drafting of Love a mistake. Packers had a aging QB and he was a known project that wouldn't be ready to step in soon. Don't see his drafting as being a mistake until the team's evaluation of him is shown to be incorrect.
The best move is to work shut out. No matter how you slice it, Gutekunst and crew screwed the pooch and if he deserves the big chair he’ll find a way to make it work. He got elevated over the other guys to handle the tough stuff, it’s time to prove he was the right choice.
If your goal is to win another Super Bowl in the near future then I’d say you try to mend fences and bring Rodgers back for another year or two.
The problem is if Rodgers truly wants Gute fired or isn’t open to playing under his current contract I don’t see how that’s remotely possible. What made it even worse was statement at the Derby that “he was disappointed the news of the rift came out” and “he loves GB, the fans, and the franchise.” Um, what? Did you morph into Baghdad Bob?
Guys like Gute and Murphy and MLF know that great players like Rodgers can have some edge and attitude, but 12s antics completely went beyond what would be considered reasonable given the circumstances. I mean, he went to DEFCON 2 almost immediately.
There’s no olive branch I can think of that will fix this mess. Given how last season ended its frustrating as hell because they should still be in contention this year, but both Rodgers and the FO are hellbent on holding their ground so it’s time to prepare for what happens next post Rodgers.
The best case scenario is they trade him to an AFC team and get a decent haul back in return and slow the rebuild/reload process. Love progresses quickly and they become a contender again. The worst case scenario is Love is a bust, some of their younger guys get hurt or don’t pan out and they wallow in the 6-8 win territory for the next decade or so.
Whether Rodgers plays for the Pack or someone else, I predict he's due for a serious injury. Broken arm or leg?
I still think they should ask for $30m back in unearned signing bonus and the March roster bonus. Turn that $38m dead cap hit into $8m, then trade him to the Raiders for whatever they can get (I can't handle seeing him with the Broncos). That'd be a really good gauge of how bad he wants out. And it makes sense from a football perspective. Rodgers has not earned that money and if he retires, the Packers would easily get it back. $30m of cap space helps this team immensely.
Honestly this just sucks. There are no right sides here. Both sides share blame and just like with Favre, it will divide the fan base and became the underlying talking point behind every loss. We got lucky in 2007 because Rodgers was that good. If Love is anything less than a HOF QB, this fan base is going to rip this team apart. It's just no going to fun for a casual fan like myself.
@CUPackFan posted:I still think they should ask for $30m back in unearned signing bonus and the March roster bonus. Turn that $38m dead cap hit into $8m, then trade him to the Raiders for whatever they can get (I can't handle seeing him with the Broncos). That'd be a really good gauge of how bad he wants out. And it makes sense from a football perspective. Rodgers has not earned that money and if he retires, the Packers would easily get it back. $30m of cap space helps this team immensely.
as bad as the situation is, it is not as bad as it was with Favre. It may get there but I dont see it happening, Rodgers wants to keep his legacy in place while Favre could care less. Favre was looking to stick it to the Packers, teh fans, and whoever else got in his way on the way to joining the Vikings.
@ChilliJon posted:Rodgers could walk into the locker room tomorrow am and 100% of the roster would have his back. Unconditionally.
His replacement was drafted but he was never told. Ask any player in the locker room how AR should take or respond to that.
Rodgers wants a long term commitment because he thinks the players in the locker room can win a SB. He WANTS to be in GB. The players in the locker room know he gives them the best chance of winning a ring.
This is a good take. For all the posturing and leaks, you can sum up the situation fairly easily.
Gutey had 2 years to evaluate Rodgers when he was the GM. Rodgers threw for 51 TDs against 6 interceptions in those two years, and they went 13-3 in MLFs first year with Rodgers. However, Gutey (and probably MLF) thought Rodgers was starting to decline and was putting up hollow stats because he wasn't taking any risks with the ball and they'd probably see an even bigger decline in 2020. The title game loss to the Niners where they were clearly outclassed suggested to Gutey/MLF they got a little lucky to get that far and weren't that close to being a real title team. In that draft, they identified a guy they thought was high value and traded up to get him. This is defensible, but the high-fiving on camera and the failure to give him a heads-up enraged Rodgers (thin-skinned as he is). As a fan, I'm happy they were excited to get JLove but making it seem like they thought they just drafted the next Mahomes might have been a little over the top and Rodgers read it as they were done with him.
Rodgers comes in for 2020, buys into the offense, and has one of the top 5 seasons in NFL history at QB. They get beat in the title game for many reasons, but the main one is that they were playing a CB that shouldn't have been on the field due to a back injury. CB depth was a major problem going into the year, but they decided it was more important for the future of the franchise to get their QB and RB for the future than to upgrade ANYWHERE (probably because they didn't think Rodgers would turn back the clock and be this good again).
They thought they were setting themselves up to be fairly competitive after Rodgers retired (which they thought was probably 2022) and not fall into the 4 or 5 win category. There were articles (mainly from the local sycophants) about what a genius Gutey was for doing all this which probably further enraged Rodgers. Rodgers asks for a bigger commitment after the season to basically be guaranteed to play a few more years in GB and they hesitate to really commit because they probably still think there's an inevitable decline coming. Rodgers has had enough and goes nuclear.
@Floridarob posted: Rodgers wants to keep his legacy in place while Favre could care less.
Disagree.
Favre couldn’t care less.
@Tschmack posted:Guys like Gute and Murphy and MLF know that great players like Rodgers can have some edge and attitude, but 12s antics completely went beyond what would be considered reasonable given the circumstances. I mean, he went to DEFCON 2 almost immediately.
How in the world can you describe what he's done as going "DEFCON 2 almost immediately"?
Look, you can play the whole management is always right, or you signed the contract you live with it horseshit, but this revisionist history that he immediately flipped out is just a lie.
He did what every fat ass fan sitting in his La-Z-Boy wants - he shut his mouth and he played. He played his ass off at an historic level. After which, he was looking for the organization to extend some commitment, respect, and security to him. And, they didn't. At least not in a manner that he felt he deserved. And so far off from that, that he said "screw it if you don't want me here, let's give you exactly what you want even earlier then".
There was nothing immediate. There was nothing beyond reasonable.
Widely shared sentiment with the fans. “If he’s going to behave this way. Get as much as you can in a trade and get him the fuck gone”
Also fans. “Just make sure it’s to a middling AFC team so GB doesn’t have to deal with him or the drama”
If the net result of all this ends up being its fully and totally broken and there’s no saving it. Then GB needs to trade him to whatever team puts the best offer in front of them. Regardless of who that team is. What can’t happen is a repeat of the Favre/Jets debacle where GB got a bag of shit in return for trying to disappear the guy in the AFC.
@Chongo posted:Let’s also remember, in addition to Bert being a serial twat, 12 had already been with the team 3 years...they KNEW he had the skills to be a starter based on him torching the defense in practice.
Gunt has zero evidence at this point to be that confident in Nub.
I may be wrong, but I think Gunt didnt believe 12 had an MVP season in him. He rolled the dice and lost.
With good reason. Gute was looking out for the long-term interest of GB. Rodgers was only average in 2017 & 2018. In 2019 with a new coach, he pushed back quite a bit, even though they went 13-3. Then we hit COVID and all relationships were screwed up. In person stuff was impossible. Ironically, Rodgers and MLF seemed to flourish via zoom.
Should Rodgers get traded or retire, it’s not a given that Love would be the starter in 2021. A veteran QB would likely be added and depending upon Love’s progress the vet might start the season. Not sure of Derek Carr’s contract amount but should Rodgers get traded to the Raiders then Carr could be part of the package along with draft picks. Or, another vet might be added. Obviously, not going to be as good as Rodgers but a stop gap measure until they see just what Love brings.
I see zero reason why they shouldn't start Love. The FO apparently knows what they have so why would you bring in a journeyman for Love to sit behind.
Bed made.
Or maybe the drafting of Love rekindled his interest and competitive fire to take his game to another level this past year?
Look, there’s no doubt he was pissed when they drafted Love. Just like Brett was pissed when they drafted Rodgers. HOF players won’t like some other guy leaning over their shoulder.
Gute and the FO screwed up by not letting him know what they were planning to do, as TT did by giving a heads up prior to pulling the trigger on drafting AR12. In the end, did it matter to Favre? Doesn’t look like it. He appreciated the gesture so much he basically interrupted Family Night to steal the attention away from Rodgers.
Rodgers pulled his own Family Night stunt to maximize the exposure by dropping the bomb 3 hours before the draft when he knew people were going to be watching and listening. As I said earlier, it was a ballsy move. But don’t be a chicken shit and play the “beautiful mystery” card when asked about at the Derby. Make your intentions known instead of having your handlers deliver the mail.
I fully believe he’s serious when he says he won’t be returning to GB, or whatever his agent said to Schefty. Demovsky said he was 95% certain of this and he knows the guy pretty well, at least allegedly.
I think what may have put this over the top was the rumored SF trade. Quite frankly, if the Niners did offer the 3rd overall pick and other collateral I’m not sure why GB wouldn’t be interested other than they both play in the NFC.
As for the matter of Jordan Love, if you move on from Rodgers it’s now time to get him the ball. I agree with Henry on this. If you felt that strongly about him, then put your money where your mouth is.
@Pakrz posted:At this point it doesn’t matter how or why the rift happened. In Rodgers, we’re talking about a guy that is stubborn and easily offended. Hell, he shut out most of his immediate family over the years. I think he’s made up his mind that he is done in GB. That likely won’t change.
I say fine. Fuck him. This is a business and 12 is a commodity. Ship him down the road when it’s best for the franchise (post June 2nd) and get as much for him as you possibly can.
1) If his family is a bunch of fundy fucks, I completely understand Rodgers thinking.
2) I agree Rodgers is a commodity and that's how I've been approaching this argument. Gunt, " I don't know about you but I just love a butt round cut over a $300 Grade A Kobe beef".
He didn't do his fucking job by managing a situation with a generational talent. Doesn't matter what you think of Rodgers, you win Super Bowls with this guy if you are doing your job correctly. So all of those FA/draft moves mean exactly jack squat when you just alienated and are about the excise the one factor on the entire team that is damn near the best guarantee to win it all. "All in" isn't the same with Kirk Cousins as it is with Rodgers. See Tampa Super Bowl trophy.
Just a shot in the dark but I'm guessing 14-3 isn't on the docket next year sans Rodgers.
It is an epic, go down in history fuck up.
I agree with Timp's take. Eat the entire cap hit this year. Let Love get some experience behind the 15 olinemen Dumb Gunt drafted and reassess your approach in 2022.
Murphy, Ball and Gute have fucked this beyond repair. You now have two choices.
1 - Fire Murphy, bring in a whole new FO prior to training camp. Dorsey or McKenzie would be just fine with me as GM. Don't care who is in Murphy's role as long as they get rid of this ridiculous org chart where the Coach reports to a non football person.
2 - Trade Rodgers after the June cap change. I think there is something to the Rumors that we get Surtain II and next years #1 from Denver. This was not my preference prior to this shit show, but given the circumstances, it would be a decent save.
I'm for option 1. Gute's draft last year is inexcusable. You had just made it to the NFCCG and your response is to spend your round 1 and 2 picks on backups? I get that thinking ahead is a key component of long term success, but that is not a healthy balance and in the process you alienated your HOF leader and fucked the organization. This narrative that Rodgers wants weapons is bullshit. He never said that. I'm sure he wants contributors, not backups, punters and long snappers.
Gute is going to go down in history as the man who ended a nearly 3 decade run of excellence in Green Bay if the board doesn't act.
What is AR's trade value?
@BuckPacker posted:What is AR's trade value?
I’m willing to bet more than what they’ll end up actually getting for him
To me, it’s Murphy that has to go. Since he’s been in charge, the level of dysfunction has increased exponentially over the last several years by decisions that were made - or not made. A lot of it started by not moving quick enough on MM or TT.
We all know the power and reporting structure is stupid and ineffective and that was Murphy’s idea. Too much authority resides with Russ Ball and MLF needs to be reporting to a person that oversees personnel and operations. I’ve suggested that Murphy take a position within the league office - hell he can be Roger’s assistant for all I care. Just get him the fuck out of GB. As long as he thinks he’s the defacto owner we are screwed.
Hire a real football guy to run personnel and operations and let them decide what to do with Gute and Ball. My guess is they will want their own guys, so adios to Gute and Russ.
You do that, it’s possible Rodgers rethinks his position but it’ll never happen. If they waited 3 years too long to can MM and retire TT my guess is Murphy will get rewarded with a contract extension in the midst of Rodgers being traded to another team. As much as he loves to brag about the Titletown District I’m not sure he’s in a hurry to go anywhere and clearly he’s snowed anyone around him of all the great work he’s doing.
Let’s remember Love hasn’t started even a pre-season game and you will need to add another QB.
@R MaN posted:
If, if, if Rodgers is indeed getting traded, the organization needs to send him to the highest-bidder and get the best haul for the good of the franchise ...
rather than just exiling him to some AFC team for whatever they can get ...
in order to save Gutey, Murphy and the front office boys the potential embarrassment of seeing a Rodgers-led NFC team like the Giants outperform the Green & Gold the next couple of seasons.
I just hope all the pro-management fans remember the mantra NO ONE IS BIGGER THANT THE PACKERS applies with equal force to the GM & Team President who have every incentive want to protect their own reputations by sending Rodgers to a lower-bidding AFC team.
" he shut his mouth and he played. He played his ass off at an historic level. "
I spent some time on the Eagles boards during their Carson Wentz issues, and many pointed to Rodgers as the standard for behavior when another QB is drafted. Instead, the performance of Wentz went off the rails and he had to be benched, coincidentally versus the Packers.
Denver could be appealing if they got back Surtain and a couple of 1s and 2s and another player or two.
I’d have to study the Giants roster some more. If they are willing to pony up a massive haul so be it.
The 9ers trade would have been fine with me as well.
@FLPACKER posted:My guess is that they won't give him what he really wants, which is a long term extension that would allow him to be a Packer until he retires.
From Dougherty this morning:
https://www.packersnews.com/st...per-bowl/4867455001/
Gutekunst even allowed room for Rodgers' input in some personnel decisions.
“Absolutely,” the GM said. “And quite frankly, over the past three years since I've been doing this, I mean, I've always welcomed that input.”
Tangible proof, of course, would be in a new contract, but would Murphy, Gutekunst and LaFleur really do and say all that and still hold a hard line on committing to Rodgers financially beyond this year? The Yahoo! report said Gutekunst rebuffed Rodgers “initially” in the offseason. The careful wording suggests that has since changed. The barrier now is, this is personal.
Yes Pete, Gunt telling you he "welcomed input" when we know Rodgers was told to mind his own business and is the reason he often says "it's not up to me" and not just about contracts.
Gunt is a kinda maybe not a good source as to how open he is.
Pete, we already know the FO janks offered a restructure at best and then came back with an extension after they had already fucked it up. Yeah, it's personal.
Just a thought Pete, it's probably about the FO not even giving him common courtesy on his possible future with the team. That's kinda maybe probably why it's personal.
Rodgers big beef is they cut Jake Kumerow after he stated he liked him. If “keep Kumerow” is the level of Rodgers personnel input then maybe it’s a good thing Gute doesn’t take it from him.
From NFL Now: Summing up the #Packers situation with QB Aaron Rodgers, who also wanted more input in personnel decisions... and how the Jake Kumerow release (!!) played into it. pic.twitter.com/EOGG9aQg3R
— Ian Rapoport (@RapSheet) May 3, 2021
@Grave Digger posted:Rodgers big beef is they cut Jake Kumerow after he stated he liked him. If “keep Kumerow” is the level of Rodgers personnel input then maybe it’s a good thing Gute doesn’t take it from him.
Maybe it's more that he doesn't want to look like an ass for praising him, then they release him.
On the @PatMcAfeeShow, AJ Hawk called the reports about Aaron Rodgers wanting Brian Gutekunst fired "garbage."
— Lily Zhao (@LilySZhao) May 3, 2021
Also added: "There's a 0% chance Aaron retires."
Hawk is one of 12's BFF...I'm tending to believe "Aaron wants Gutey fired" is 100% media invented bullshit.
Taking AR out of the picture and now insert "Franchise QB"....I do not care who it is. No one player should be in a GM's ear and telling him who to draft or retain or re-sign, . By position? Sure. I can easily see a team's franchise QB wanting a WR or an upgrade at TE.
But, for example, campaigning to keep Whitewater Jesus, who has literally bounced across the NFL with 5 + teams signing him at one point...yes Aaron there is a reason for that. And you can fill a roster with 100 Jake Kumerow's and find them off the street. In short, he sucks and was barely a team's 5th WR.
And that's the problem with a QB or team leader getting emotionally attached to these players, they develop friendships, and that colors their opinions of them.
That's now how this works nor should it ever work like that.
This entire triangle of authority crap Murphy installed is a fucking disaster. The GM, and ONLY the GM decides football operations. Period. End of story.
Don't like the GM? Fire him and move on.
There are way too many chiefs (including supposedly Rodgers wanting into Gute's ear) and not enough Indians. That almost never ends well.
I think this whole 12 wants to have a say in personnel decisions is overstated, exaggerated and probably not true.
Gutey, unlike his mentor Ted, doesn't appear to think he needs to keep anyone in the loop on personnel decisions...hell his head coach seems like an outsider on decisions. The buck stopped with Ted, but McVince always talked about they had daily conversations about personnel be it ones they had, FA or draft.
That is an old school, and quite honestly, archaic way of running a team. Just like it's an archaic way of running of offense. The offense took off because MLF made 12 feel like a partner, not someone he was dictating to "do as I say!" like under McVince.
Whether you take his advice or not, at least make him THINK you are listening to him...99% of the time that is ALL an employee wants...to feel heard and listened to. That is true for neurosurgeons all the way down to the guy who sweeps the floors. That is is one of the cornerstones of effective management. I guess Murphy/Gunt haven't read that far in the books yet.
If the reporting on Jake Kumerow is accurate it just confirms my view that moving on is the right thing to do.
Yeah, any mention of Kumerow at this stage seems like it exposes the depth of bullshit this is all based on.
@michiganjoe posted:If the reporting on Jake Kumerow is accurate it just confirms my view that moving on is the right thing to do.
If you remember, early in AR's days as a starting QB, he was really miffed when the team moved on from Ruvell Martin. He thought he was a #1/#2 WR and thought Ted should have kept him.
Obviously, ya just look at that 2011 cover of SI's spread of Rodgers weapons and that's all you need to know that moving on from Martin was clearly the right thing to do.
To @Chongo 's point, from a management perspective, yes handling AR's ego definitely takes skill and so far, Gute has proven he utterly sucks at it. But that never changes the bottom line.
Which is no one player should ever have input to a point where that GM goes against his gut and caves to the players wants/desires.
That's Jerry Jones train wreck-style management that will fuck over a team again and again.
Rodgers almost certainly wants a say in personnel decisions, what player WOULDN’T want that? He doesn’t want to just be heard, he wants the power Brady has in Tampa. Brady is part of an essentially a three headed decision making team with Licht and Arians. Rodgers wants to be out there wheeling and dealing with his buddies and then tell Gute to find a way to make it work. That’s what it sounds like Brady did with Antonio Brown, Gronkowski, Suh, Fournette, etc. Its not a bad thing and it’s not wrong, but it’s also just not how THIS team operates. Both ways can be correct, both ways win Super Bowls. Brady likely got 0% input in anything in New England. If Aaron wants GB to operate like Tampa, which maybe they should, then yeah GB is probably going to have to find someone else to run the team because I don’t think it’s how Gute or Murphy operate. Ron Wolf would never have taken input from Favre, not even for a second. Ted wouldn’t have either.
