@MichiganPacker posted:Bakh is one of the best pass blocking LTs in NFL history. Hall of Fame level. He's an A+ in that regard. He's an excellent run blocker as well, but he's not an A+ for that - more like a B+. If you are going to eventually be a run-heavy offense, he is still incredibly valuable, but less valuable than if you plan to drop back, spread the field, and throw most downs.
Very interesting point.
@MichiganPacker posted:Bakh is one of the best pass blocking LTs in NFL history. Hall of Fame level. He's an A+ in that regard. He's an excellent run blocker as well, but he's not an A+ for that - more like a B+. If you are going to eventually be a run-heavy offense, he is still incredibly valuable, but less valuable than if you plan to drop back, spread the field, and throw most downs.
Yes. But maybe not.
Here's why: even if the Packers morph toward a "run heavy" offense
( they already are) the difference isn't enough to be The Decider on keeping /not keeping Bakh.
Titans were heaviest run team, 32 runs/ game
Jets came in least at 22 runs per game
Most teams are in the middle. So you're talking about 4-5 plays per game.
Many of the elite LTs aren't elite run blockers, but its an acceptable payoff because of the massive value you get from deeper throws ( which take longer and require a top pass- blocking LT)
GB has been reticent to hand out 3rd contracts, TJ Lang was an example and so was Corey Linsley. They'll see what old man Bakh looks like after 2023 and make the call, but I don't think the delta between an "A" run blocker and a "B" run blocker will influence the decision or the contract. 2 cents
Lock up Jenkins, 3 years of bookend studs
Go Packers
@Satori posted:Yes. But maybe not.
Here's why: even if the Packers morph toward a "run heavy" offense
( they already are) the difference isn't enough to be The Decider on keeping /not keeping Bakh.
Titans were heaviest run team, 32 runs/ game
Jets came in least at 22 runs per game
Most teams are in the middle. So you're talking about 4-5 plays per game.
Many of the elite LTs aren't elite run blockers, but its an acceptable payoff because of the massive value you get from deeper throws ( which take longer and require a top pass- blocking LT)GB has been reticent to hand out 3rd contracts, TJ Lang was an example and so was Corey Linsley. They'll see what old man Bakh looks like after 2023 and make the call, but I don't think the delta between an "A" run blocker and a "B" run blocker will influence the decision or the contract. 2 cents
Lock up Jenkins, 3 years of bookend studs
Go Packers
Just make sure Jenkins gets seated first wherever they go.
I wonder if that wasn’t a little bit of , “Don’t you know who I am?”
Herman saying Packers only way to keep Jenkins is to sign him to a long extension that is front loaded but allows the Packers to spread it out over many years. Packers are not in a position to us the franchise "tayg."
There is a lot of hand wringing thinking Jenkins and Bakh will be the same nightmare if he's signed. And the 2 aren't comparable.
1.) Jenkins is much younger vs Bakh who was knocking towards 30 when extended. Jenkins is 26.
2.) Their ACL injuries were not the same. Reports are Jenkins had a "clean" ACL and based on his play in the 2nd half of the season AND that he's back where he belongs, he looks like the Jenkins pre-ACL. Bakh's ACL was way worse, involved more than just an ACL and came with multiple postoperative complications, knee taps, and then he re-injures the knee on that pathetic turf in DET.
I'd love to see him re-signed but there are cap realities that the Packers can't deny. I think the Packers are fine at Tackle with Caleb Jones, Tom, and Nyman in the wings.
Guard is more tricky. I am not sure Newman is on this roster in 2023 and I really don't know if Myers is the long term answer at C either. He's been a mixed bag so far.
I would hope the Packers recognize that a player like Jenkins is a generational talent that literally can play any position along the OL. He is better at some than others, of course, but his performance, versatility, and age all scream "keep me!"
Teams with HOF left tackles often win titles. In many cases, they completely change how you can run an offense: Jonathan Ogden, Orlando Pace, Jason Peters, and Walter Jones were all key guys on Super Bowl winners and guys like Munoz (twice) and Jackie Slater played on Super Bowl teams as well. Elite LTs are real difference-makers. Outside of Joe Thomas, it's hard to find examples of HOF LTs that didn't make their teams significantly better.
I don't think the same is true for guards. You have to be careful not to overpay.
The same isn't true for guards, but Jenkins can step in almost anywhere along the line with little to no dropoff in production especially now that he's feeling better. That's a rarity, and it might cost more.
@Timmy! posted:I would hope the Packers recognize that a player like Jenkins is a generational talent that literally can play any position along the OL. He is better at some than others, of course, but his performance, versatility, and age all scream "keep me!"
Pre-ACL, I think this was true. He filled in fairly well at LT in 2021 before he went down. Post-ACL? He really struggled at RT earlier this year. Now yes, that may be entirely because he was still recovering from the injury that early. And maybe by 2023, he could be back to sliding to T if need be.
But I don't think that would be the Packers plan. If they extend him, he would play LG, where he flourished.
@RobDemovsky: The Packers and Elgton Jenkins have agreed to terms on a four-year, $68 million contract extension, a source said, and it is expected to be signed today. It will make him the second-highest paid guard in the NFL and also would rank among the top-10 left tackles in the NFL
Great deal for GB!
Awesome! Our left side with Jenkins and Tom should be solid for the next several years.
Since moving back to LG, Jenkins is looking like Jenkins..
Not sure where Elgton Jenkins will play long-term, but he's been excellent once again at left guard. https://t.co/VpLoGyAuJH
— Zach Kruse (@zachkruse2) December 23, 2022
Now if Bak comes back our o-line is looking very good for next season. Interested to see if we let Yosh leave and play Tom at RT. Will probably depend on Bak's knee?
That’s a good contract for GB.
@FLPACKER posted:Now if Bak comes back our o-line is looking very good for next season. Interested to see if we let Yosh leave and play Tom at RT. Will probably depend on Bak's knee?
Good point. I was assuming this was Bak's last year but with his cap hit he almost needs to be on the team next year. Maybe Tom can play right tackle. Next year could be a good assessment year for Bak. If Bak can still play and Tom can swing to right tackle we'll have a much better O line look next year. I'm still hesitant about that knee though. Hopefully it's healed.
The last 2-3 games that Bak played he looked more like himself. As Gute said, guys of his talent level at that position don't grow on trees. If he plays the remainder of the season at a high level I don't see how they don't bring him back
Don't sleep on Caleb Jones. The Packers are really high on him and that dude has been working out like a mad man, dropped a ton of weight, gained muscle mass and he is a huge load.
If the Packers move on from Bakh, it's still IIRC a cap savings of like 6 million in 2023. Not saying they will, but they have multiple, younger and cheaper options at Tackle moving forward.
@FLPACKER posted:The last 2-3 games that Bak played he looked more like himself. As Gute said, guys of his talent level at that position don't grow on trees. If he plays the remainder of the season at a high level I don't see how they don't bring him back
I fully expect the Packers to shut him down for the season. It seems to be his MO this year.
With this deal in place do the Packers have the ability to continue paying Jones or is he still most likely to be gone next season?
He was throughly checked out. You can put your money on that.
@Shadow posted:With this deal in place do the Packers have the ability to continue paying Jones or is he still most likely to be gone next season?
I'm sure Jenkins contract is structured to have more cap room in 2023 and even maybe into 2024. So there should be money for Jones. But the biggest issue in 2024 is Bahk. If I remember correctly his dead cap in 2024 is 18 million but his salary is 30 million. Unless he restructures significantly he will be gone.
@ammo posted:I'm sure Jenkins contract is structured to have more cap room in 2023 and even maybe into 2024. So there should be money for Jones. But the biggest issue in 2024 is Bahk. If I remember correctly his dead cap in 2024 is 18 million but his salary is 30 million. Unless he restructures significantly he will be gone.
Worse than that actually. 2024 dead cap would be $11m, but his salary would be $33m. Packers aren't doing that, they'd take the dead cap.
2023 dead cap is $23m and his salary is $29m. Close enough that he can come back next year and/or work on a restructure if he wants to play longer.
@bdplant posted:I fully expect the Packers to shut him down for the season. It seems to be his MO this year.
Depends on what happens this week .... MLF said yesterday he could practice today, which meant he could play Sunday.... however, he will not practice today which usually means he will not play Sunday.... but he is close. If we win Sunday he definitely plays next week.
Other fans on Twitter complaint that the Packers have no salary cap 
Salary caps are for the little teams.
Russ read the report about YouTube yesterday. No more salary cap concerns from 1265.
In my opinion, signing EJ was the biggest priority. Cobb, Lewis, and Crosby will be gone. (My inside sources have told me that Crosby fully expects this to be his last year playing football. He/Family plan on moving to TN). I wouldn't pay much to keep Lazard. I'd like them to keep Tonyan. I also think that Nixon needs to be brought back. Lowry is solid, but I wouldn't pay much to keep him. Amos is an interesting situation. He's not on an all pro level, but if he's gone and Savage is what he is, they'd be pretty thin at safety.
Thanks Doc! Now we know why Rodgers was reportedly looking to purchase a house in TN last offseason.
Good to see the team stick with him and reward him. He’s earned it.
Outside of a few games post ACL, this guy has played at an All Pro level basically most of his career. Not sure what the future holds for Bak, but keeping Jenkins IMO is really important.
@Shadow posted:Good point. I was assuming this was Bak's last year but with his cap hit he almost needs to be on the team next year. Maybe Tom can play right tackle. Next year could be a good assessment year for Bak. If Bak can still play and Tom can swing to right tackle we'll have a much better O line look next year. I'm still hesitant about that knee though. Hopefully it's healed.
Tom could still end up playing Guard. He just needs to hit the weight room hard in the offseason.
@Blair Kiel posted:Salary caps are for the little teams.
Leona Helmsleyish
@vitaflo posted:Worse than that actually. 2024 dead cap would be $11m, but his salary would be $33m. Packers aren't doing that, they'd take the dead cap.
2023 dead cap is $23m and his salary is $29m. Close enough that he can come back next year and/or work on a restructure if he wants to play longer.
He’s a broken down old player. He needs to restructure. No one else is going to pay him at his current rate.
@PackerHawk posted:Tom could still end up playing Guard. He just needs to hit the weight room hard in the offseason.
His body type is much better suited for tackle. He has good feet but has difficulty anchoring vs. bull rush. I agree that he needs to get stronger, even for tackle, but I just don't see him playing guard.
@Goalline posted:They need to play him.
Yeah, he will follow the same path as Rodgers. Play until the playoffs are out of sight. According to Rodgers, Bahk is currently dealing with a very sensitive belly button after the appendectomy.
@FLPACKER posted:His body type is much better suited for tackle. He has good feet but has difficulty anchoring vs. bull rush. I agree that he needs to get stronger, even for tackle, but I just don't see him playing guard.
Not sure I agree that he’s built like a tackle. Only 6’4” with short arms. If he can build an anchor, guard is his future. It’s a bonus that he has tackle feet though.
