@PackerRick posted:I agree, my comment wasn't serious. I doubt it would do much for Wilson's self-worth either if they kept trotting him out there for all of the kneel downs.
Idk, taking all the first half kneel downs could be a good way of coaching Wilson up on butt sweat.
i am as a huge Aaron Rodgers fan and want him to succeed. But I would not be terribly upset if the Jets team takes a nose dive and they end up 4 and 13 and a top three draft pick in 2024.
The 65% of the snaps is something that could cause issues (as the conditional part of this). I get why they don't say 12 starts (because teams would put the backup out there to start the game and handoff and get around the terms that way).
But why not something like playing the majority of QB snaps in 12 games?
The percentage of snaps is something that could be manipulated pretty easily.
@MichiganPacker posted:The 65% of the snaps is something that could cause issues (as the conditional part of this). I get why they don't say 12 starts (because teams would put the backup out there to start the game and handoff and get around the terms that way).
But why not something like playing the majority of QB snaps in 12 games?The percentage of snaps is something that could be manipulated pretty easily.
Not really, you would need someone else under center for 45% of snaps, that's 6 full games.
Taysom Hill in 2021 started 4 games at QB for NO, and even if you combine all those snaps, plus every other snap he took on offense (not just at QB) for the entire rest of the year, he was only in 41% of all offensive snaps.
You just can't manipulate it.
@BrainDed posted:As it is today it's a guranteed two second round picks and a move up from 15 to 13. Potential to be 1 second and 1 first with a move up from 15 to 13.
Not tremendous for a multi MVP QB but not horrible for a guy who said he would never play for the team again.
This doesn't pardon Gute from not tading him last year and agreeing to that horrible contract that we will suffer from for a while. It's better than I thought we would get, but we will still pay the price for him acting a year too late and compounding that error with that contract.
I think there was confoosion by the confoosed on the board and guys thought for a while we got #13 and didn't give back #15. Thus the mention of fleecing.
@PackerRick posted:Swapping first round picks had hardly been talked about. ...
It was talked about plenty on this board.
Manipulating the snap percentage would be quite difficult. It would likely take a major injury to prevent Rodgers from completing 65% of the snaps. Also consider, if Rodgers is the QB the sticks move and the team might run 60-70 plays. With Wilson at QB they might run only 50. So Rodgers would probably have to miss 7-8 games to fall below 65%
Are the Jets unable to trade next years #1 since it’s part of a “conditional” trade of the #2?
If an OT the Jets covet is there at #13, would love to see the Packers trade it back to the Jets for another pick. Say the Packers gets #43 from the Jets for #45.
Having that extra 2nd packaged with their 1st could move them up to #6 or #7 and maybe grab one of the elite First Rounders.
@D J posted:It was talked about plenty on this board.
It might have been talked about here but not in the national media. In the end I think the Packers got 3 major concessions. Swapping #1 picks, the conditional pick is based on Rodgers snap count and not team performance, and no return pick in 2025 if Rodgers only plays one season. The Packers did much better than most people expected.
The only reason the Jets have an A- is because Packers general manger Brian Gutekunst was able to squeeze a swap of first round picks in the 2023 NFL Draft out of Jets general manager Joe Douglas. Douglas reportedly didn't want to include the 13th overall pick in the deal.
Gutekunst being able to procure a first-round pick swap, the Jets' highest second round pick (No. 42 overall), sixth-round pick (No. 207 overall), and a conditional 2024 second-round selection that becomes a first if Rodgers plays 65 percent of New York's offensive plays is a massive victory.
@PackLandVA posted:Are the Jets unable to trade next years #1 since it’s part of a “conditional” trade of the #2?
If an OT the Jets covet is there at #13, would love to see the Packers trade it back to the Jets for another pick. Say the Packers gets #43 from the Jets for #45.
Having that extra 2nd packaged with their 1st could move them up to #6 or #7 and maybe grab one of the elite First Rounders.
The Jets can't trade that pick. I read 2 teams, NE and I think the Dolphins, are both shopping for a LT and the Packers could really stick it to the Jets trading #13 to one of those division rivals. If the Packers just trade down to about #20 the draft chart says they should get that teams #2 pick as a kicker.
@PackerRick posted:Loser: Joe Douglas' reputation as a negotiator
But Gute was Smert enuff to compliment him....why?? Cuz he might have to deal with Joe again in the future.
Even the staunchest Jets fan has to recognize anything short of at least a Super Bowl appearance, this trade is a WIN for the Pack.
@vitaflo posted:Not really, you would need someone else under center for 45% of snaps, that's 6 full games.
Taysom Hill in 2021 started 4 games at QB for NO, and even if you combine all those snaps, plus every other snap he took on offense (not just at QB) for the entire rest of the year, he was only in 41% of all offensive snaps.
You just can't manipulate it.
Math is hard.
Those of us old enough to remember when it was time to "move on" from Starr are well-prepared to deal with the separation from other iconic QBs since. It's never easy and always emotional, but life moves on.
One thing I have learned from both the TOG era and the ARod era is that there is a shelf life for generational QBs. There comes a point when these guys become too powerful, and the ramifications for the team are never good.
I think 10-12 years is about right.
TOG should've been gone after Holmgren left; certainly by the time that the Ray Rhodes debacle was done.
Ditto for ARod when MM was fired. If he could have been dealt by the end of that season, or after MLF's first year, the outlook today would be much different.
I recognize what that means to team history, these players' legacies, and it may not have been very pretty for some-- or all --of those seasons.
But avoiding the inevitable drama and pain is beneficial for both the team and player, in the long run.
JMHO, others may vary.
I wonder about Saleh...... He and MLF are very good friends, if AR was the nightmare to coach , as some believe, it would seem that Saleh would want no part of him. Does he have little say in things once the owner & GM started focusing on AR? Is AR's reputation as being hard to coach totally overblown?
@PackerRick posted:Loser: Joe Douglas' reputation as a negotiator
Whomever wrote that is a fucking idiot. The deal is pretty fair all around. Nobody fleeced anyone unless Rodgers gets hurt early and retires, and that was always a risk, as is Rodgers leading the Jets to a Super Bowl appearance or two. The most likely outcome is the Jets are a playoff team and contender for a couple of years and Wilson gets the bench time he needs while the Packers have some extra resources to rebuild the team.
Fleeced is too strong a word but I think the Packers got the edge in the deal. Linking the conditional pick to snaps rather than team performance strikes me as a pretty significant concession.
Jets Blinked.
@PackerRick posted:Why do you keep blaming Gute for that contract when it was obviously Murphy? Gute is the guy that drafted Love to replace Rodgers. I don't care how many MVPs Rodgers won that is not the player the Packers traded.
No one knows for sure if it was Gute or Murphy pulling the strings. Probably a combination of the two. Yes Gute drafted Love but Murphy could have been making the final decision there as well.
@PackerRick posted:Gutekunst being able to procure a first-round pick swap, the Jets' highest second round pick (No. 42 overall), sixth-round pick (No. 207 overall), and a conditional 2024 second-round selection that becomes a first if Rodgers plays 65 percent of New York's offensive plays is a massive victory.
He's a 4 time MVP. I think he did ok. I certainly wouldn't call it a massive victory.
If we consider that the bridges were burned in GB and the Jets were basically the only suitor the Pack did pretty good.
However, they did miss the sell high window a year or so ago.
Always thought the talk of Rodgers being in cahoots with Douglas and Woody to screw the Packers over was silly. Wilde was falling over himself speculating Rodgers would tell the Jets to drag it out and lowball the Packers. I think I'm most happy there's no giveback if he retires after this year.
Still going to be interesting to see the financing of 12s contract to see if the Packers took more salary for a lesser condition on the 24 pick. Boomer won't stop talking about Aaron taking a team friendly salary to help the Jets aquire other talent. I'll be astonished if he does that instead of getting a back loaded contract that hits the Jets on his departure.
Packers had little leverage here. Only leverage was timing. Packers HAD to trade Rodgers before training camp due to the $60m bonus due to Rodgers. Jets could have waited until then and offered a third rounder and Packers would have had to accept. That $60m payment and Rodgers being on the roster would have caused massive issues for 2023 and 2024 so again, Packers HAD to trade him. Jets on the other hand, could have passed and tanked in 2023 for a QB in 2024.
But getting the 49ers interest out there helped, as well as timing of getting Rodgers into the Jets building. As we saw last year, even Rodgers needs time with new receivers to get acclimated. So there was some leverage here. But I think Gute exploited that small amount of leverage. Really, he got the equivalent of a first, second, and third rounder and saved $60m for a player that everyone knew was not going to play for the Packers in 2023.
@Boris posted:But Gute was Smert enuff to compliment him....why?? Cuz he might have to deal with Joe again in the future.
When they trade J. Love to Jets in 2038?
@PackerRick posted:. If the Packers just trade down to about #20 the draft chart says they should get that teams #2 pick as a kicker.
Well.
We do need a kicker. #2? Wasn’t that where Janikowski was drafted? 😀
@13X posted:He's a 4 time MVP. I think he did ok. I certainly wouldn't call it a massive victory.
39yr old former 4 time MVP coming off his worst year.
Hypothetical: Tom Brady, all time greatest QB to ever live, winner of 7 SB, still wants to play. Bucs own his rights. One team is interested. How much should that team offer to acquire him, today?
Good question and it's similar to the Gronk trade from New England to Tampa. HoF player retires then comes back and says they won't play for team A but will play for Team B. In this case, Team A no longer has leverage because they only have two options - do nothing and get nothing, or trade him to team B. Team B knows this so offers just enough so Team A says "whatever ,take him". New England got a 4th rounder for Gronk. I think Brady garners a 3rd rounder in your scenario. It's why I think Gute got a pretty decent haul for Rodgers.
If Rodgers was a 35 year old QB that was 1 year removed from MVP seasons then he would have a lot more value. A QB in the NFL nearing 40 is a big risk. I know Brady did it but he is a once in a lifetime player. Then you also add in Rodgers flaky behavior. I think GB got plenty of value for him.
Douglas is hoping Rodgers plays 2 more years...he is willing to deal with the drama in hopes the Jets can smooch enough ass to bring him back in 2024.
I hope this ends up being a win-win for both teams...the Packers get 2-3 premium players and the Jets win the Super Bowl they so desperately want.
But sadly there will be people in the weeds ready to celebrate all the potential failings that may happen as a result of this trade.
@Herschel posted:Whomever wrote that is a fucking idiot. The deal is pretty fair all around. Nobody fleeced anyone unless Rodgers gets hurt early and retires, and that was always a risk, as is Rodgers leading the Jets to a Super Bowl appearance or two. The most likely outcome is the Jets are a playoff team and contender for a couple of years and Wilson gets the bench time he needs while the Packers have some extra resources to rebuild the team.
No matter what happens he lost ground as a negotiator. Because he got Rodgers and he does what he hoped for is insignificant to what he wanted to give up and what he did give up. He wouldn't move off the 13th pick but he did. Word had it the conditional pick was expected to be based on the Jets playoff performance, even advancing to the AFC title game and it came down to a simple snap count. The Jets were looking for a pick in in 2025 in case Rodgers only played one year. Didn't get it. Plus the Jets ate the contract with no money being sent their way. I'd say Douglas is lucky Gutey wasn't selling swamp land.
@13X posted:He's a 4 time MVP. I think he did ok. I certainly wouldn't call it a massive victory.
That 4 time MVP talk means nothing. He had his worst season last year. When a team trades for a player they look at what to expect in the future. Also look at what other teams will give up if this had gone past the draft. The Jets were on the clock because they had exclusive rights until the draft. That's why all of the posturing ended.
@13X posted:No one knows for sure if it was Gute or Murphy pulling the strings. Probably a combination of the two. Yes Gute drafted Love but Murphy could have been making the final decision there as well.
I doubt Murphy is involved in the draft at all. But he would be involved in retaining a player who's exit could define his legacy.
@FLPACKER posted:I wonder about Saleh...... He and MLF are very good friends, if AR was the nightmare to coach , as some believe, it would seem that Saleh would want no part of him. Does he have little say in things once the owner & GM started focusing on AR? Is AR's reputation as being hard to coach totally overblown?
Saleh has won 11 games in 2 seasons and has no QB. He even fired MLF's brother to bring Hackett in for Rodgers. He's already bending for Rodgers and trying to save his job.
@titmfatied posted:Still going to be interesting to see the financing of 12s contract to see if the Packers took more salary for a lesser condition on the 24 pick. Boomer won't stop talking about Aaron taking a team friendly salary to help the Jets aquire other talent. I'll be astonished if he does that instead of getting a back loaded contract that hits the Jets on his departure.
Rodgers already has plenty of money so he can wait 5 years to get the bulk of his current contract but he will get every dime of it and maybe more. Now the Jets can have a ton of dead cap money when Rodgers retires instead of the Packers.
@FLPACKER posted:I wonder about Saleh...... He and MLF are very good friends, if AR was the nightmare to coach , as some believe, it would seem that Saleh would want no part of him. Does he have little say in things once the owner & GM started focusing on AR? Is AR's reputation as being hard to coach totally overblown?
We of course have no idea if AR is hard to coach or not. But, I firmly believe that if this is true the Jets are so desperate for a QB they are willing to overlook it.
@CUPackFan posted:Packers had little leverage here. Only leverage was timing. Packers HAD to trade Rodgers before training camp due to the $60m bonus due to Rodgers. Jets could have waited until then and offered a third rounder and Packers would have had to accept. That $60m payment and Rodgers being on the roster would have caused massive issues for 2023 and 2024 so again, Packers HAD to trade him. Jets on the other hand, could have passed and tanked in 2023 for a QB in 2024.
But getting the 49ers interest out there helped, as well as timing of getting Rodgers into the Jets building. As we saw last year, even Rodgers needs time with new receivers to get acclimated. So there was some leverage here. But I think Gute exploited that small amount of leverage. Really, he got the equivalent of a first, second, and third rounder and saved $60m for a player that everyone knew was not going to play for the Packers in 2023.
I don’t think that’s correct IRT the cap and leverage. I think the payment was guaranteed and already factored into the cap hit, GB actually lost money on this deal ($40M in dead cap vs. $31M in active roster hit). The only downside was if GB, organizationally, was strapped for cash to pay that amount all at once. It would have behooved GB, cap wise, to wait until after June 1 because they could have spread out this years hit over 23/24 and saved about $14M this year. Really only impacted the future rebuilding effort to lose out on a year of extra premium pick(s). Jets had ZERO options at QB to make a serious run and save jobs, they had to do this deal. Rodgers retirement talk probably soured GB’s leverage more than anything, Jets at least smart enough to not mortgage their whole future on a flakey QB like the Broncos.
Who wants to bet, if the Jets aren’t gelling and don’t look like contenders, that Rodgers exits the season with an “injury” with roughly oh 36% of the season left?? Im not a gambler, but him screwing GB out of a 1st round pick is probably a safe bet I might make.
@Chongo posted:Douglas is hoping Rodgers plays 2 more years...he is willing to deal with the drama in hopes the Jets can smooch enough ass to bring him back in 2024.
I hope this ends up being a win-win for both teams...the Packers get 2-3 premium players and the Jets win the Super Bowl they so desperately want.
But sadly there will be people in the weeds ready to celebrate all the potential failings that may happen as a result of this trade.
Won’t be surprised if Rodgers playing in 2024 is contingent on Jets trading for a certain LT, whose time in GB is coming to an end as well. This is what the Jets bought, a perpetual negotiation.
@Grave Digger posted:Who wants to bet, if the Jets aren’t gelling and don’t look like contenders, that Rodgers exits the season with an “injury” with roughly oh 36% of the season left?? Im not a gambler, but him screwing GB out of a 1st round pick is probably a safe bet I might make.
I doubt the Jets could get Rodgers to do that. Rodgers was pretty banged up this year, the Packers could have given Love valuable playing time, and Rodgers still took all of the snaps.
