@Grave Digger posted:Won’t be surprised if Rodgers playing in 2024 is contingent on Jets trading for a certain LT, whose time in GB is coming to an end as well. This is what the Jets bought, a perpetual negotiation.
Swapping #1 picks could only contribute to this dilemma as the Packers very likely could draft the LT the Jets were hoping to pull from this draft. Gute won this trade in so many ways, he even got the better of the two 2nd round picks the Jets had.
If you want 15 min of peak Vajeens Fan Florio getting ass-mad over this trade...it will tell you ALL you need to know how well this trade worked out for the Packers...
@Grave Digger posted:I don’t think that’s correct IRT the cap and leverage. I think the payment was guaranteed and already factored into the cap hit, GB actually lost money on this deal ($40M in dead cap vs. $31M in active roster hit).
You are wrong on the $60m payment. Payments do not get factored into a cap hit UNTIL THEY ARE MADE, not when they are guaranteed. Example - we can all agree the Deshaun Watson's contract is a fully guaranteed $250m. Under your rationale, the full $250m is guaranteed upon signing, thus he $250m cap hit would be immediate. But we all know that's not the case. The reality - nothing hits the cap though, until it's PAID. Then when it's paid, the structure of the payment determines the salary cap impact (salary vs. signing bonus). Cap hit over a players full life with the team will always match the cash paid by the team.
Rodgers' $60m payment was not paid, so is not factored into any cap hit. If the trade did not happen and the $60m was paid, that would have been an additional $60m cap hit spread over the life of Rodgers contract (through 2026). That's why he had to be traded. Incurring an additional $60m cap hit for a player not playing for you is crushing and affects their ability to put a team around Love to develop him. That's why Packers had little leverage. They needed to get rid of Rodgers this offseason and that $60m payment. Jets, on the other hand, haven't had a QB since Namath. They've sucked for decades. They could suck one more year.
@DH13 posted:39yr old former 4 time MVP coming off his worst year.
Hypothetical: Tom Brady, all time greatest QB to ever live, winner of 7 SB, still wants to play. Bucs own his rights. One team is interested. How much should that team offer to acquire him, today?
Injured QB with a garbage receiving core to start the season. Allen Lazard was WR1. That says a lot.
@PackerRick posted:I doubt Murphy is involved in the draft at all. But he would be involved in retaining a player who's exit could define his legacy.
You're making assumptions. The bottom line is we really don't know.
@Chongo posted:He just fleeced him for what was closer to the 2022 Broncos Russell Wilson haul than I thought was entirely possible.
Gutey will be whistling zippity-doo-dah out of his asshole for weeks...
Fleeced? I don't know about that, it sounds like a fair trade. After someone there fucked up by not trading him last year when they would have received the Broncos haul. I'm not sure it was Gute behind that, but if it wasn't, then I agree, he did a good job given the circumstances this year.
@CUPackFan posted:You are wrong on the $60m payment. Payments do not get factored into a cap hit UNTIL THEY ARE MADE, not when they are guaranteed. Example - we can all agree the Deshaun Watson's contract is a fully guaranteed $250m. Under your rationale, the full $250m is guaranteed upon signing, thus he $250m cap hit would be immediate. But we all know that's not the case. The reality - nothing hits the cap though, until it's PAID. Then when it's paid, the structure of the payment determines the salary cap impact (salary vs. signing bonus). Cap hit over a players full life with the team will always match the cash paid by the team.
Rodgers' $60m payment was not paid, so is not factored into any cap hit. If the trade did not happen and the $60m was paid, that would have been an additional $60m cap hit spread over the life of Rodgers contract (through 2026). That's why he had to be traded. Incurring an additional $60m cap hit for a player not playing for you is crushing and affects their ability to put a team around Love to develop him. That's why Packers had little leverage. They needed to get rid of Rodgers this offseason and that $60m payment. Jets, on the other hand, haven't had a QB since Namath. They've sucked for decades. They could suck one more year.
So there's a lot of different things at play here and a ton of different cap implications that affected who had leverage here. At the end of the day, the Packers had leverage because we all knew Rodgers was being traded somewhere before the season started.
He was either going to be traded pre-June 1 or post-June 1, but before the start of the season. So, the Packers were either facing a $40 million dead cap hit in 2023 (if traded pre-June 1) or a $40 million dead cap hit spread out between 2023 and 2024 (if traded post-June 1). They chose pre-June 1 because BG got a truckload of picks and came out way ahead, without the risk of Rodgers calling their bluff causing potential chaos post-June 1 by refusing to appear, retire, etc.
If the Packers waited for post-June 1 to spread the cap hit and the Jets trade fell through, they would have offloaded Rodgers for a Favre-like trade to someone else (again, not worth the risk to call that bluff). Given how this offseason went, there was never a threat Rodgers was going to appear at the start of the season a Packers like Favre did, he was going to be traded long before the season start date.
The Packers could wait post-draft, the Jets could not--which is essentially why the Packers absconded with the 13th, 42nd, and 207th pick this year and a (probable) 1st next year, and completely removed any future implications of Rodgers's contract after this year.
@H5 posted:Trading the back-to-back MVP was never gonna happen. Also, Murphy not Gutekunst.
I guess we'll never know who was actually behind the boneheaded move to sign Rodgers to that contract. Back-to-back MVP who couldn't lead the Packers to a SB when they had home field in back-to-back NFC championship games. Not all AR's fault, of course, but not worth keeping a QB whose attitude was getting as old as he is. Certainly not worth what they paid him, not to mention what they gave up. Better a year too early than a year too late, as the great Ron Wolf said. Last year, we saw a year too late.
@Harry Manback posted:I guess we'll never know who was actually behind the boneheaded move to sign Rodgers to that contract. Back-to-back MVP who couldn't lead the Packers to a SB when they had home field in back-to-back NFC championship games. Not all AR's fault, of course, but not worth keeping a QB whose attitude was getting as old as he is. Certainly not worth what they paid him, not to mention what they gave up. Better a year too early than a year too late, as the great Ron Wolf said. Last year, we saw a year too late.
Exactly
@DH13 posted:39yr old former 4 time MVP coming off his worst year.
Hypothetical: Tom Brady, all time greatest QB to ever live, winner of 7 SB, still wants to play. Bucs own his rights. One team is interested. How much should that team offer to acquire him, today?
39yr old former 4 time MVP coming off his worst year...who pouted and said he would never play for you again.
@CUPackFan posted:You are wrong on the $60m payment. Payments do not get factored into a cap hit UNTIL THEY ARE MADE, not when they are guaranteed. Example - we can all agree the Deshaun Watson's contract is a fully guaranteed $250m. Under your rationale, the full $250m is guaranteed upon signing, thus he $250m cap hit would be immediate. But we all know that's not the case. The reality - nothing hits the cap though, until it's PAID. Then when it's paid, the structure of the payment determines the salary cap impact (salary vs. signing bonus). Cap hit over a players full life with the team will always match the cash paid by the team.
Rodgers' $60m payment was not paid, so is not factored into any cap hit. If the trade did not happen and the $60m was paid, that would have been an additional $60m cap hit spread over the life of Rodgers contract (through 2026). That's why he had to be traded. Incurring an additional $60m cap hit for a player not playing for you is crushing and affects their ability to put a team around Love to develop him. That's why Packers had little leverage. They needed to get rid of Rodgers this offseason and that $60m payment. Jets, on the other hand, haven't had a QB since Namath. They've sucked for decades. They could suck one more year.
Yes sorry I didn’t mean it was factored into the cap, I meant to say it wouldn’t have been a factor because they would have done what the Jets did and convert to bonus and spread it out over the dummy years to ease the pain. The only way GB cap was ever going to get hit with that full amount is if they cut him is what I meant. My point was that I don’t think it was a leverage issue, I think GB had a Plan B in case they couldn’t work out a trade and there was a tenable solution for absorbing that payment.
Douglas says the pick swap (13/15) was one of the final components that went into the negotiations to close the deal. #Jets
— Rich Cimini (@RichCimini) April 25, 2023
@Boris posted:Murphy stopped the Rodgers trade to Denver last year. It was a done deal until Murphy stepped in.
Fck Murphy from here to eternity. That fucker can't turn 70 fast enough
While I can’t stand Murphy this is 100% speculation that has only been repeated on this site and there is nothing out there to suggest that this is the case.
We traded a QB who is about to turn 40 and is due $60m this year. Personally I feel like what we got for him is incredible.
We got more value wise than we got for Davante who is in his prime.
@PackerRick posted:No matter what happens he lost ground as a negotiator. Because he got Rodgers and he does what he hoped for is insignificant to what he wanted to give up and what he did give up. He wouldn't move off the 13th pick but he did. Word had it the conditional pick was expected to be based on the Jets playoff performance, even advancing to the AFC title game and it came down to a simple snap count. The Jets were looking for a pick in in 2025 in case Rodgers only played one year. Didn't get it. Plus the Jets ate the contract with no money being sent their way. I'd say Douglas is lucky Gutey wasn't selling swamp land.
He swapped picks by two places, not give up his first, didn’t give up both #2s either, and even got a 5th for a 6th. In order to keep those resources to actually go “all-in” for a title he assumed more risk in the base higher pick with the lower escalator for next year. I know a lot of Packers fans haven’t actually seen what going “all-in” to try and win a Super Bowl means, but this is how it’s done.
@13X posted:While I can’t stand Murphy this is 100% speculation that has only been repeated on this site and there is nothing out there to suggest that this is the case.
Nothing that YOU know about. There are others (yes on this site) that know. Take it FWIW. It's also pure speculation on your part
@DH13 posted:39yr old former 4 time MVP coming off his worst year.
Hypothetical: Tom Brady, all time greatest QB to ever live, winner of 7 SB, still wants to play. Bucs own his rights. One team is interested. How much should that team offer to acquire him, today?
An air pump and camcorder?
@PackerRick posted:I doubt the Jets could get Rodgers to do that. Rodgers was pretty banged up this year, the Packers could have given Love valuable playing time, and Rodgers still took all of the snaps.
He cares about his numbers too much to voluntarily sit. Especially at his age. As much as the case could be made that he gutted out the thumb last year, he understands the missed opportunity to add to his stats in a very limited number of games left in his career. At this point, I think there's an argument that he might hold that dearer than a shot at another ring. But time will tell.
@Boris posted:Murphy stopped the Rodgers trade to Denver last year. It was a done deal until Murphy stepped in.
Fck Murphy from here to eternity. That fucker can't turn 70 fast enough
The decision to halt that trade and to pay Rodgers that extension. Classic decisions made by a non-football PR guy. Murphy has his fingerprints all over that.
@Herschel posted:He swapped picks by two places, not give up his first, didn’t give up both #2s either, and even got a 5th for a 6th. In order to keep those resources to actually go “all-in” for a title he assumed more risk in the base higher pick with the lower escalator for next year. I know a lot of Packers fans haven’t actually seen what going “all-in” to try and win a Super Bowl means, but this is how it’s done.
Douglas gave up a lot more than he wanted to. Just swapping picks is a huge deal. He was adamant about keeping that pick. For the Packers to simply trade up for that pick would cost pick #100, a 3rd rounder this year. But even worse for Douglas, he might lose out on that LT he wanted to protect Rodgers. The Packers could very easily draft a LT. It also moves division rival NE, picking #14, ahead of the Jets.
Getting two #2 pick was a pipedream and never seriously talked about in rumored trade proposals. The 5th for a 6th is almost insignificant when it was rumored he wanted something in 2025 if Rodgers only played 1 year.
@PackerRick posted:Douglas gave up a lot more than he wanted to. Just swapping picks is a huge deal. He was adamant about keeping that pick. For the Packers to simply trade up for that pick would cost pick #100, a 3rd rounder this year. But even worse for Douglas, he might lose out on that LT he wanted to protect Rodgers. The Packers could very easily draft a LT. It also moves division rival NE, picking #14, ahead of the Jets.
Getting two #2 pick was a pipedream and never seriously talked about in rumored trade proposals. The 5th for a 6th is almost insignificant when it was rumored he wanted something in 2025 if Rodgers only played 1 year.
And the Pats also need a tackle.
You “Murphy killed the trade” guys are so full of shit.
@13X posted:While I can’t stand Murphy this is 100% speculation that has only been repeated on this site and there is nothing out there to suggest that this is the case.
Gute would have made that trade in a heartbeat last year so only Murphy could stop him. Last year Murphy didn't listen and called Rodgers a "complicated fella". One year later he knows Rodgers is a pain in the ass and OKed the trade.
@Goalline posted:The decision to halt that trade and to pay Rodgers that extension. Classic decisions made by a non-football PR guy. Murphy has his fingerprints all over that.
It probably was. It looks like it was an attempt to kiss Rodger's ass after he called Gute out for his treatment of players in the past as well....
@PackerRick posted:Gute would have made that trade in a heartbeat lasy year so only Murphy could stop him. Last year Murphy didn't listen and called Rodgers a "complicated fella". One year later he knows Rodgers is a pain in the ass and OKed the trade.
Pure speculation
Not sure how anyone can suggest this wasn’t a good to decent return for Rodgers.
They get basically 2 2nds or a 2nd and a 1st. And they shed the contract.
A 1 next year in a deeper draft is more important than getting a couple of 2s this year.
With pick 42 and their own 2nd rounder they could certainly move up into R1 or now with pick 13 they could move up further if they want.
There’s a reason GB wanted that pick swap. I have a sense they wanted to get in front of New England as they both have similar needs at edge rusher and WR. At 13, the Packers should get a pick of any of the WRs and might still be able to get Van Ness
@Pakrz posted:You “Murphy killed the trade” guys are so full of shit.
Do you really think Gutey did it after he drafted Love to replace Rodgers and saw how Rodgers reacted after drafting Love? It had to kill him to watch his buddy Schneider collect that cache.
@Tschmack posted:I sense they wanted to get in front of New England as they both have similar needs at edge rusher and WR. At 13, the Packers should get a pick of any of the WRs and might still be able to get Van Ness
Not that Gute would do that but I've seen Smith Njigba taken before 13 in probably half the mocks I've seen. However one of those had GB taking Zay Flowers with their RD1 pick so some of them are really badly written.
@13X posted:It probably was. It looks like it was an attempt to kiss Rodger's ass after he called Gute out for his treatment of players in the past as well....
I don't think Gute was doing any ass kissing with Rodgers. No love lost between the two.
Only in Green Bay is the QB with a broken thumb and ribs, ineffective offensive line, Green as grass WRs, and a lousy defense expected to play like an MVP
Well, I feel pretty good all things considered. The AR saga is finally (almost) over.
However I was hoping for a three way trade in which Packers got Danger Russ for Danny Etling and a 3rd.
#fleece #drama
No one forced Rodgers to play with a broken thumb
@Herschel posted:Whomever wrote that is a fucking idiot. The deal is pretty fair all around. Nobody fleeced anyone unless Rodgers gets hurt early and retires, and that was always a risk, as is Rodgers leading the Jets to a Super Bowl appearance or two. The most likely outcome is the Jets are a playoff team and contender for a couple of years and Wilson gets the bench time he needs while the Packers have some extra resources to rebuild the team.
Yep. And then we have guys (well, one guy) denying that since the trade began many here were either talking swapping 1sts or demanding pick 13 without a swap as part of any deal was a big part of the discusions on this board.
I may have missed it among all the fleecing by each side but how much of AR's remaining contract is GB still on the hook for once the deal is complete? I thought a big part of the win was getting the remainder of the contract off our books but now I've also read conflicting reports.
Anybody want to explain it to my 5 year olds so they can explain it to me?
