@Satori posted:.
I believe Antoo was referring to the squirt bottle pic... not the interview.
Carry On
That picture is sooooo me. You young wippersnappers, fool me all the time!
Matt Flynn's a pretty funny dude:
Against the Cowboys we got MVP AR; previous weeks, not so much.
getting 20+ yards completions and touchdowns are so easy when you have elite receivers like the Packers do.
In games where we don't have many rush attempts there is always a sentiment of "is AR changing the run calls to passes" ie ...AR is going rogue. if EVER a QB was going to blatantly go rogue it would have been on the last drive of regulation vs. Dallas... and perhaps rightfully so. AR did not care for MLF's calls (and obviously let him know), but the point is that he ran the plays the coach called. Think what you want about AR but I think he still believes in the coach's authority, and although he at times disagrees with him, in the end he follows orders.
Or maybe they snapped a five game losing streak because AR finally decided to follow the game plan.
I do agree that MLF’s play calling at the end of regulation was atrocious.
It may also be that AR was finally told in no uncertain terms to follow the game plan. That could also be why AR was mad at the end of regulation: the playcalling sucked. But while you can fault MLF for that part, you can't fault him much for the rest of the day. He had Dallas flat-footed trying to determine what was coming.
AR was under center a lot. I'm guessing the thumb is feeling better.
Occam's thumb.
He said it still hurts after every game. Keeps banging it up some way or another and the only way it's really going to get better is the week off during the bye. So he's got 3 more games to deal with it.
Hopefully the short break after tonight's game will help, even if just a little.
FWIW, John Kuhn said this morning "there is no doubt, none" Rodgers is back next season. They talk regularly. Not exactly shocking as he gets a 58.3 million dollar bonus next year.
Hard to walk away from regardless of how the season goes.
He would never admit it, but I really think he will retire at least a year before or a year after Brady. His ego would not allow him to play second fiddle in the lead up to the induction ceremony.
probably needs to play to recover some of his significant crypto losses the past year. Last year at this time he was taking some or all of his salary in Bitcoin when it was $63,000. The loss has been substantial.
Rodgers was doing that? I remember some other player taking his salary in bitcoin.
I don't recall the name either, but it was an OL from the Seahawks.
Bitcoin down over 70% in the past year.
Aaron Rodgers, Serena Williams, Odell Beckham Jr. talk Bitcoin at conference: 'I'm betting big on crypto'
@Floridarob posted:
Ah, so a portion of his salary. 10%, 25%, 50%, who knows.
@PackerHawk posted:Ah, so a portion of his salary. 10%, 25%, 50%, who knows.
while also using the mobile payment service to give away $1 million in Bitcoin to his fans. LOL
@Timmy! posted:I don't recall the name either, but it was an OL from the Seahawks.
This is also the 2nd time a WR has stated that there are two offenses to learn in Green Bay. I believe the first was MVS in an article w/ @TyDunne if I remember correctly. The revelation that the coaches don't even know the checks and think WRs are running wrong routes is 🤯😬 https://t.co/ITRd4ouwI5
— Andy Herman (@AndyHermanNFL) December 16, 2022
This is an extremely fascinating article. A must read and one that makes you question whether the reward of all the complexities is worth it if the receivers don't feel comfortable and confident in what they are doing. https://t.co/jOMTqCz8lG
— Andy Herman (@AndyHermanNFL) December 16, 2022
Is it Lafleur’s scheme or Aaron Rodgers? pic.twitter.com/F6mj1X5RAR
— Pack-A-Day (@PackADayPodcast) December 16, 2022
Seems more and more that Rodgers has morphed into Favre at about the same stage of their careers. Both are douche bags to young WR's (Favre was a complete ass to Greg Jennings his rookie year). Both are doing what they want in terms of checking out of plays and tuning out their coach (Favre did this early on with MM) and Rodgers constantly checks out of plays that MLF calls.
I'm sorry. The Packers can't move on soon enough from Rodgers. He's a total "me first" guy these days. Things like an MVP mean far more to him than another SB
@packerboi posted:This is also the 2nd time a WR has stated that there are two offenses to learn in Green Bay. I believe the first was MVS in an article w/ @TyDunne if I remember correctly. The revelation that the coaches don't even know the checks and think WRs are running wrong routes is 🤯😬 https://t.co/ITRd4ouwI5
— Andy Herman (@AndyHermanNFL) December 16, 2022This is an extremely fascinating article. A must read and one that makes you question whether the reward of all the complexities is worth it if the receivers don't feel comfortable and confident in what they are doing. https://t.co/jOMTqCz8lG
— Andy Herman (@AndyHermanNFL) December 16, 2022Is it Lafleur’s scheme or Aaron Rodgers? pic.twitter.com/F6mj1X5RAR
— Pack-A-Day (@PackADayPodcast) December 16, 2022
This motherfucker has been running schemes not to succeed or to help his WRs, but rather to make his life easier. The selfish shit that he and Favre did and we wonder why we’ve only won 2 Super Bowls with 30 years of HOF QBs?
Let’s keep in mind MVS has been running the wrong routes and getting nothing accomplished in KC except for fewer snaps
It’s not a complexity problem. It’s an attention to detail problem. And Herman can go fuck himself.
Behind a pay wall..
I'll post the key snips:
Signal meetings and Aaron Rodgers’ ‘little death stare’: What it’s like for Packers’ rookie receivers
Christian Watson almost ruined this story.
After Week 9, when Green Bay lost at Detroit after putting up only nine points, a question began to take shape: Why is it so hard to be a rookie wide receiver in an Aaron Rodgers offense? Watson and fellow rookie Romeo Doubs (second- and fourth-round picks, respectively) had struggled to make consistent gains, and seventh-rounder Samori Toure was barely involved.
Rookie receivers have never produced much during Rodgers’ time in Green Bay, but there’s never been a consensus as to why. It’s a real chicken-or-egg dilemma: Have rookies struggled because the Packers have rarely devoted the draft capital to selecting the kind of receiver who is ready to play right away — or because Rodgers’ personal standards are too high for any first-year player?
From 2008-21, Rodgers’ era as the starter in Green Bay, the Packers drafted six receivers in the first four rounds: Jordy Nelson (second round, 2008), Randall Cobb (second round, 2011), Davante Adams (second round, 2014), Ty Montgomery (third round, 2015), J’Mon Moore (fourth round, 2018) and Amari Rodgers (third round, 2021). Those receivers finished their rookie years averaging 26.7 targets, 19.5 receptions, 230.5 receiving yards and 1.3 touchdown receptions.
In the same time span, the 31 other teams in the NFL drafted 219 wide receivers in the first four rounds who averaged nearly double the targets as Green Bay’s rookies in their first seasons (50.7), as well as 30.1 receptions, 400 receiving yards and 2.5 touchdowns.
Then, in Week 10, Watson broke out with four catches for 107 yards and three touchdowns in an overtime win against Dallas. Against Tennessee, Philadelphia and Chicago, Watson hauled in a combined 11 receptions on 19 targets, scoring eight touchdowns (one rushing) in four weeks, which tied him with Randy Moss for the most for a rookie receiver in a four-game span.
But in all likelihood, Watson’s emergence came too late to save the Packers’ season, and when the chicken-or-egg puzzle was posed to Cobb, a 12-year veteran, on a quiet Wednesday afternoon in Green Bay, his answer proved that Watson hadn’t totally shredded the story — at least not to the degree he’s been shredding NFL defenses of late.
This year, Rodgers has had to rely on rookies more than any other time in his career. From 2008-21, Green Bay rookie receivers averaged a target on 13.4 percent of their routes. Currently, Doubs and Watson average a target on 21.2 percent of their routes. Watson averages 32.1 snaps per game and Doubs averages 43.8, though he’s missed the last four games with a high ankle sprain.
Cobb averaged 6.7 snaps per game his rookie season in 2011, when Rodgers was in his fourth year as the starter and, according to Cobb, just as detailed and intricate as he is today. “And that’s why I didn’t play much,” Cobb said. “I wasn’t thrust into a position where I had to play 25-plus snaps. I was able to sit back and learn and watch and see the detail of what this offense does and what is expected of a receiver.
“That’s one thing that Green Bay has always prided themselves on, drafting guys and being able to develop them and not having to thrust guys into situations immediately in their career.”
But when Green Bay traded Adams to Las Vegas in March, that tradition ended. “You’re expecting someone to fill that void,” Cobb said.
The rookies were in over their heads for at least the first half of the season as games slipped away and losses and injuries mounted. Watson missed the first two weeks of training camp while recovering from minor knee surgery and then missed three full games with a hamstring injury and a concussion.
According to veteran receiver Sammy Watkins, there are “two offenses in one” at play in Green Bay: Matt LaFleur’s scheme and all the tiny details Rodgers wants executed to perfection, “whether it is angle, yardage, eye, head or tempo.” Watkins, who signed with the Packers in April, said he finds himself confused sometimes despite eight-plus years of NFL experience.
“If you’re not up to date 100 percent of the time, you pretty much can’t go out there and make plays,” Watkins said. “You can’t really play fast, and I think that’s what the young guys kind of are — not afraid of — but if you’re just trying to do the right thing, you are not focusing on getting open, you are not focusing on releases. ”
Speaking after his first practice back from his ankle sprain in Week 13, Doubs said he still wasn’t sure if he’d earned Rodgers’ trust.
“I don’t know,” he said. “I know with this being my first year here, playing for a Hall of Fame quarterback obviously has been the biggest learning curve for me. And it’s not just for myself, it’s for Christian, for Samori, so it’s been a really tough transition.”
Saturdays are typically the easiest day of the NFL week. Players come in, watch film from practice and then go through a light walk-through. There’s no real physical exertion required. But for Packers rookie offensive skill players, Saturdays are the most mentally exhausting day of the week.
“The signal meetings was by far the worst thing,” said former Packers receiver Chris Blair, who spent the 2021 season as a rookie on Green Bay’s practice squad. “I used to hate those.”
Rodgers uses hand signals at the line of scrimmage to change a route or a concept. You’re probably familiar with a few of his most common ones: the helmet tap, the one where he holds his left arm behind his back with his thumb pointed down, another where he raises an index finger and quickly rotates it and another that looks like the Hawaiian hang loose sign.
On Saturdays, rookie receivers, running backs and tight ends get quizzed on them. “You don’t want to get called on because … you gotta do it in front of the whole team,” said former Packers receiver Equanimeous St. Brown, who now plays for the Bears.
It’s probably the most nerve-racking for a young player because we don’t get taught them,” said former Green Bay running back Kylin Hill, who was drafted in 2021 and released in November. “You have to learn them on the fly.”
“That’s definitely something wide receivers don’t look forward to, is the signal meeting, because we have so many,” said backup quarterback Jordan Love. “You don’t want any of that stuff getting out, so we wait until the season starts to start going through signals.”
None of the current or former Packers players interviewed for this story could place an exact number on how many signals Rodgers expects his offense to know, but several estimated a number somewhere in the 30s.
“What’s so crazy is all the coaches don’t even know all of them,” Blair said. “It’s really a thing that you really have to learn from watching (Rodgers) in practice or asking one of the vets.” Blair said that when watching film in Green Bay, coaches would sometimes think a receiver ran the wrong route. “But we would be able to show them like, no, Aaron showed us the signal!”
The signals are not written down anywhere. They are not searchable on the team-issued iPads and there’s no handy film cut-up to watch them all in one go. “It’s just in our brains,” Love said. The veterans pass them down in the oral tradition, but the rookies have to ask for help or try to pick them up on their own during the live-action of practice and games.
“We don’t teach them because players get released every day or traded, so we don’t want anybody giving out A-Rod’s signals,” Hill said.
St. Brown said that when he was a rookie in 2018, he stayed late every Friday after practice with fellow rookie Marquez Valdes-Scantling and a coach to review the plays and learn the signals.
The closest thing to a written record is a list of calls that Love creates each week. Each call or route or concept corresponds to a specific signal. He said the list is three columns deep and only for the quarterbacks’ use. “Wide receivers aren’t allowed to get that,” he said. “Especially the young guys when they first get here.”
Rodgers used to be the one to call players up to the front of the auditorium to perform signals on demand on Saturdays, but he delegated the job to Love last season.
“When they say signals, all the young players’ heads go down,” Hill said. “When you don’t make eye contact, that’s when (Rodgers) calls you.”
It’s rare for any young player to ace the selection of signals he’s given to identify or vice versa. “Some right, some wrong, that’s part of the process,” Doubs said. Blair said he always mixed up the signals for the hitch (thumbs up) and stick (thumbs down) routes.
“Some of the guys try to help discreetly if you are stuck on one,” said former Packers tight end Shaun Beyer, who was released from the practice squad in October. “If you are having a little blank, a lot of the guys will be like, ‘Ahhh, it’s this!'”
Rodgers’ long history in Green Bay can sometimes make it difficult for a young receiver to feel like he is fully caught up.
“Aaron will bring signals back from five or six years ago that he used to have in an older offense,” Love said. “He’ll just signal it out there and you just kind of got to know, and if you don’t know, you just have to figure it out. It’s hard for the young guys.”
Love is now in his third year in Green Bay, but he still hasn’t seen the full vault. “The older guys will remember them and know them, but we will see it on the side and we’ll be like, what’s that signal?” Love said. “I don’t know. Go ask him and figure it out.”
Snip-
Watson has since rebounded from the disappointing start, but some players in Green Bay never recover from their original break. The current and former Packers players who spoke for this story said Rodgers isn’t the type to shout or yell at a young player for making a mistake. He doesn’t need words to do that.
“He’ll give you that little stare and you will know you need to step it up and lock in,” Hill said. “Looks like a little death stare.”
“That’s the worst feeling, when you know you f—ed up,” said tight end Jace Sternberger, a third-round pick in 2019 and the first offensive skill player Green Bay drafted in the LaFleur era. “(Rodgers) doesn’t say anything, it’s just the look in his eyes. Like, ‘Is this kid going to figure this out?'”
Green Bay cut Sternberger during the 2021 season, and he’s since spent time with Seattle, Washington and Pittsburgh. He said Green Bay’s offense is more detailed and complicated than anywhere else he’s been.
St. Brown is now playing with second-year quarterback Justin Fields in Chicago, where he said he’s more involved in the offense than he was in Green Bay.
“With a quarterback like Aaron, he has been doing it for so long that he knows what he likes, so if he likes a certain route this way, you run it that way for him because that’s how he’s been doing it,” St. Brown said. “With a young QB like Justin, we get to have more conversation about how we want to run it, how I like it, because maybe it is a new route for him, too.”
Snip:
Green Bay drafted Amari Rodgers in the third round in 2021 and released him in November after he muffed multiple punts this season. Amari Rodgers said Aaron Rodgers felt unapproachable to him during his year and a half in Green Bay. He wasn’t necessarily intimidating, but just not an older guy that young players could easily talk to.
“He doesn’t really have conversations outside of football with many people,” Amari Rodgers said. “So that kind of maybe played a role, just not being able to feel personable towards him, not all connected, so you didn’t really feel comfortable to say things or communicate the way that you want to because of that. That played a part more than anything.”
“The majority of young players will be more shy and scared to speak to him because we all just watched him throughout growing up,” Hill said.
Snip:
Rodgers has his own group of veterans he is comfortable with, while the three rookie receivers have formed their own ” little clique,” according to Tonyan. While the rest of the offense spreads out during meetings with seats in between each other, Watson, Doubs and Toure sit right next to each other in the front row.
“It’s good for them to do that,” Tonyan said. “Because you have someone to rely on.”
The three have handshakes together, and after Watson scored his second touchdown at Chicago, Watson and Toure got together to do their unique version: a swinging, kicking, leaning choreography. Things are getting better for these rookies, but it was just a few weeks ago that Rodgers hinted at wanting his team to make a move at the trade deadline for a receiver.
“There is a possibility, if certain guys emerge, of us having the chance to make a run,” Rodgers told reporters after Green Bay lost to the Jets at home in Week 6. “I know (GM Brian Gutekunst) believes the same thing, but if there is an opportunity, I expect Brian would be in the mix.”
Watson has since emerged in the very way that Rodgers publicly willed him to midseason, but it hasn’t been easy to get past the injuries, the huge expectations and the drops.
“As soon as you mess up once as a rookie, and you’re a rookie, it’s more of a strike than if you are Randall Cobb or Davante, because you have to stack up trust,” St. Brown said. “As a rookie, you start at the bottom, so you don’t want to go backward, you want to go forward, so you can earn some trust.”
Watson “had a couple of bumps in the road, but I think it got him right as far as mentality,” Watkins said. “Cobby working on him, myself and Lazard working on him, we got him to realize that hey, it’s not a little-boy sport, it’s not nice — be a dog, be a man — and I think now he grasps that concept.”
So now we know what it’s like to be a rookie with Aaron Rodgers. There’s a lot thrown at you, maybe even the ball.
(Illustration: John Bradford / The Athletic; Photos: / David Berding, Scott Taetsch / Getty Images)
I know the above is a long read. That's not even the whole article.
But this just screams that Rodgers likes to mind fuck his WR's. And that MLF has no balls to say, fuck this, we're not doing it like this. It's also obvious Rodgers runs this entire offense and it must be like walking on egg shells not to piss him off, and if you do, lots of luck getting his beloved "trust" back (see Sternberger, see Amari Rodgers).
Like I said, the Packers can't move on from Lord Rodgers soon enough.
It's been stated the pecking order in pro sports is 1. Owner, 2. GM or team president, 3. Super Star player, 4. head coach. Since Green Bay has no single owner, and Murphy has no balls and Gutey has to answer to him anyway, that means Rodgers is the #1 in Green Bay. And that is just RONG!!!!!
So Lombardi is a saint for demanding perfection from a 1 win team in 59 but Rodgers is a seething asshole for asking rookies to learn a fucking playbook.
C’mon.
If the article is accurate, then Rodgers would be an asshole for asking rookies to learn a playbook that doesn’t exist.
If the Vikings won a Super Bowl they’d have a trophy.
@ChilliJon posted:Let’s keep in mind MVS has been running the wrong routes and getting nothing accomplished in KC except for fewer snaps
It’s not a complexity problem. It’s an attention to detail problem. And Herman can go fuck himself.
The irony of you bashing Rodgers’ most successful rookie receiver.😅
It’s going to be interesting to see where MLF goes from here. GB needed him to actually coach this year. He hasn’t. Rodgers is not the problem. Rodgers has never been the problem. Rodgers should have ditched GB in 2015. He didn’t.
This isn't the first time we've heard this. Coaches chastising players for running the wrong route, but were actually running the "correct" route based on AR's signals. You're kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place as a young player. If you don't do what the coaches want, you get cut. If you don't do what AR wants, he won't throw you the ball, which leads to you getting cut. Can't win.
What's interesting about the article is that this obviously has worked in the past probably because so many of our WR's were vets. The young guys were given time to adapt (see Adams for the best example).
Now, almost all of our WR's are young, and even vets like Watkins are having a hard time with the complexity of the signal calling. These cryptic signals don't really work in a year like this. Even if the young guys pick it up, it's too late, season is over. You'd think a guy who is as competitive as Aaron would understand this and attempt to rethink his approach but it looks like he's just set in his ways.
I also wonder some times if the fact we've seen some great play by backups this year (Mike White, Purdy), is because they just run the playbook as designed. They go thru their reads and throw to the open guy. Receivers don't need to think, just run routes.
Welp, I think Sammy has seen his last target as a Packer.
Sounds like his own form of hazing whereby we lose games…not a fan personally, maybe he gets together with veteran players and they yuck up how they messed with these guys…
@pkr_north posted:Sounds like his own form of hazing whereby we lose games…not a fan personally, maybe he gets together with veteran players and they yuck up how they messed with these guys…
That’s also putting his amusement and own ego front and center vs simplifying shit so younger players can understand an offense and doing what’s best for the team, not him.
It’s also well known Rodgers loathes to throw a pick and wants his TD to INT ratio to never be eclipsed by anyone in the league once he retires. So by making this shit so fuckin’ complicated and ensuring if a young WR screws up he’ll never see the field again also keeps his circle of trust so small that it prevents any young player from screwing with that precious stat of his.