AR's kryptonite has always been that he has to constantly try to prove that he is the smartest guy in the room.
Just to be sure. Are we blaming Favre and Rodgers for only 2 Lombardis over 30 years here?
@packerboi posted:I'm sorry. The Packers can't move on soon enough from Rodgers. He's a total "me first" guy these days. Things like an MVP mean far more to him than another SB
In your opinion.
@FLPACKER posted:AR's kryptonite has always been that he has to constantly try to prove that he is the smartest guy in the room.
Made me think of that Holly Hunter scene in "Broadcast News" where an executive above tells her it must be great always being the smartest person in the room. She looks at him with disgust and says, "It's awful."
@ChilliJon posted:Just to be sure. Are we blaming Favre and Rodgers for only 2 Lombardis over 30 years here?
The more specific version is the Packers organization hasn't been the Patriots organization. And that is Favre and Rodgers fault. Because.
@ChilliJon posted:So Lombardi is a saint for demanding perfection from a 1 win team in 59 but Rodgers is a seething asshole for asking rookies to learn a fucking playbook.
C’mon.
Read the article. It’s not the playbook he’s asking them to learn.
@vitaflo posted:This isn't the first time we've heard this. Coaches chastising players for running the wrong route, but were actually running the "correct" route based on AR's signals. You're kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place as a young player. If you don't do what the coaches want, you get cut. If you don't do what AR wants, he won't throw you the ball, which leads to you getting cut. Can't win.
What's interesting about the article is that this obviously has worked in the past probably because so many of our WR's were vets. The young guys were given time to adapt (see Adams for the best example).
Now, almost all of our WR's are young, and even vets like Watkins are having a hard time with the complexity of the signal calling. These cryptic signals don't really work in a year like this. Even if the young guys pick it up, it's too late, season is over. You'd think a guy who is as competitive as Aaron would understand this and attempt to rethink his approach but it looks like he's just set in his ways.
I also wonder some times if the fact we've seen some great play by backups this year (Mike White, Purdy), is because they just run the playbook as designed. They go thru their reads and throw to the open guy. Receivers don't need to think, just run routes.
He’s not competitive. He’s an egotist. Tom Brady is competitive. He’ll do anything he can to win. Rodgers will do anything to get his way.
@ChilliJon posted:Jordy says it’s never how you start. It’s how you finish.
True but this topic is about the start not the finish.
It's no wonder a rookie can't live up to what Rodgers wants when they are asked to know the playbook as written, plus more than 30 hand signals that aren't written anywhere and can change at any time. Heck, Watkins says he even has to think about what he's doing, so even as a vet he's not working fast on the field.
As a teacher, I know it's one thing to have high expectations but it's another to be realistic with a new class. With newbies, you start by demanding supreme effort, and concentration, and laying the foundation for what's to come. As the group starts to rise, you keep raising the bar to where you want them to be in terms of understanding what's expected, adjustments, and attention to fine detail. But from the article, it seems Rodgers never lowers the bar to help the newbies adjust; he just expects them to absorb it. If that's the case, it's no wonder that rookies and even FA vets are not productive. It also means that Rodgers is an arse to not adjust his own precious mentality to better his team.
@ChilliJon posted:Just to be sure. Are we blaming Favre and Rodgers for only 2 Lombardis over 30 years here?
Let’s give them credit for winning only 2
@Goalline posted:He’s not competitive. He’s an egotist. Tom Brady is competitive. He’ll do anything he can to win. Rodgers will do anything to get his way.
Disagree, the guy hates to lose at anything. Even stories from competing with teammates or coaches in the gym at basketball, at darts, bowling and even golf drives him to win. He has gotten more diva in the last few years but to say he is not competitive is just stupid. The guy is a multi millionaire with things outside of football that can keep him going. He does not need the money. The reason he plays is for the competition. His drive to win is every bit as insane as Brady or any other player.
@Floridarob posted:Disagree, the guy hates to lose at anything. Even stories from competing with teammates or coaches in the gym at basketball, at darts, bowling and even golf drives him to win. He has gotten more diva in the last few years but to say he is not competitive is just stupid. The guy is a multi millionaire with things outside of football that can keep him going. He does not need the money. The reason he plays is for the competition. His drive to win is every bit as insane as Brady or any other player.
He is individually competitive, as all egotistical people are. As a team player, not so much. For not needing the money he sure demanded and received a lot. More than anyone else in the sport.
I think the money is a major reason he continues to play. Some people can never have enough money.
And when the next guy/guys (whoever it may be) don’t come anywhere close to the excellence of the current and previous starting QBs, this board will go ape shit.
I’ll enjoy watching AR on the field ever game he plays as a Packer and not really give a shit about his off field life and whether he’s a good guy.
@Floridarob posted:Disagree, the guy hates to lose at anything. Even stories from competing with teammates or coaches in the gym at basketball, at darts, bowling and even golf drives him to win. He has gotten more diva in the last few years but to say he is not competitive is just stupid. The guy is a multi millionaire with things outside of football that can keep him going. He does not need the money. The reason he plays is for the competition. His drive to win is every bit as insane as Brady or any other player.
3 of the 4 of those you just named are sports where you'd shine as an individual. And the 4th is even debatable whether it's truly a team sport. Just ask James Harden.
Brady wanted to win at any cost. Including sacrificing millions of dollars in contract money he willingly gave up so his teams could sign key free agents to get another ring.
Rodgers wouldn't have even considered that. His 57 million dollars he's guaranteed in 2023 is one of many in examples where he's proven that.
Ken Ingalls - Packers Cap 
@KenIngalls
Imagine being a Head Coach of a professional football team and allowing hand signals & checks that are not a part of your playbook.
Then imagine allowing meetings where vets spotlight quiz young players on these signals.
Then imagine not knowing what any of these signals mean.
@ChilliJon posted:Just to be sure. Are we blaming Favre and Rodgers for only 2 Lombardis over 30 years here?
If the shoe fits.............................
@Fandame posted:Heck, Watkins says he even has to think about what he's doing, so even as a vet he's not working fast on the field.
What also struck me from the article is they don't give any of the signals to the receivers until after the season starts. So there's no preseason learning.
There was lots of talk from Rodgers in the preseason about how him and Watkins were on the same page, etc. And yet when the season started it kinda felt like that wasn't the case (still doesn't). I wonder now if it's because Sammy wasn't privy to any of the signals until after the season started, and then he had to learn the "other" half of the playbook. So whatever "connection" they grew to have during training camp kinda went out the window.
@ammo posted:If the shoe fits.............................
When the team fails to win don’t blame the most important piece, apparently.
It was weird reading the tweets before the actual story was posted. Like discussing the results of games before they are actually over...
BTW, thanks, pboi! I wouldn't have been able to read any of it if you didn't provide that. Much appreciated.
My take is I have to consider who was quoted. When that list begins with Watkins and (Amari) Rodgers, I think that's more a reflection of their preparation and mental acuity than it is the complexity of the offense/signals impossibly stacking the odds against them.
Amari's quotes about how he felt ARod was unapproachable is natural, not many 39 year old men have a lot in common with a 23 year old guy. I would think if Amari wanted to talk to him, but was uncomfortable approaching him, ask your coach for help.
And how in the hell would Amari know what ARod does outside of football? They aren't friends, they don't hang out, and, apparently, they don't talk. He is just repeating what he has heard, or expressing his opinion, but I highly doubt the veracity of either.
In the end, I'm more likely to believe that this is a case of sour grapes than I would believe ARod is being an ass/prick.
Maybe Watkins and Rodgers have been talking to Greg Jenning's sister?
@vitaflo posted:What also struck me from the article is they don't give any of the signals to the receivers until after the season starts. So there's no preseason learning.
There was lots of talk from Rodgers in the preseason about how him and Watkins were on the same page, etc. And yet when the season started it kinda felt like that wasn't the case (still doesn't). I wonder now if it's because Sammy wasn't privy to any of the signals until after the season started, and then he had to learn the "other" half of the playbook. So whatever "connection" they grew to have during training camp kinda went out the window.
Well, 12 did say the off season practices were of no value. Now we know why.
Maybe Watkins and Rodgers have been talking to Greg Jenning's sister?
And, I’m starting to think Greg Jennings sister was right:🤷
@Goalline posted:And, I’m starting to think Greg Jennings sister was right:🤷
Blasphemy!
@Timmy! posted:In the end, I'm more likely to believe that this is a case of sour grapes than I would believe ARod is being an ass/prick.
I didn't get the sense from the article that AR was being a prick, just that he was making the offense unnecessarily complex and confusing. The quote from Sternberger that GB's offense is the most complicated he's been in, compared to his time in Seattle, Wash and Pittsburgh I think is telling. Those aren't exactly horrible teams with bad coaches.
I really wonder if this offense is more complicated than it needs to be. Rodgers at one point this season said he thought the Packers needed to "simplify" the offense. But he's part of the reason it's not simple.
@Goalline posted:Well, 12 did say the off season practices were of no value. Now we know why.
To be fair, AR has said OTA's and preseason games have no value. He's always been adamant that practice itself (training camp and in-season) are the more important than anything. He's always been a firm believer in "you play how you practice", for better or worse. It's why he used to piss off vets as a rookie cuz he'd run the scout team like he was in the Super Bowl.
@ChilliJon posted:Who wrote the fucking article.
Just assassinate their character and get it over with.😅
GB wins the SB in 2014. They were the best team in the NFL. Then Quarless happened. And that was that. It’s hard as fuck to win a Super Bowl unless you have Adam Vinitieri.
We can spin this shit forever. Rodgers is one of the 3 greatest QBs I’ve ever watched. Maybe the best. Glad Ted drafted him.
@PackerHawk posted:Welp, I think Sammy has seen his last target as a Packer.
Sammy Watkins should have never seen a first target as a Packer.
@ChilliJon posted:Rodgers is one of the 3 greatest QBs I’ve ever watched.
At one time, yes. But not so much now being he thinks is accountable to no one.
@packerboi posted:@KenIngallsImagine being a Head Coach of a professional football team and allowing hand signals & checks that are not a part of your playbook.Then imagine allowing meetings where vets spotlight quiz young players on these signals.Then imagine not knowing what any of these signals mean.
If that’s the case, then MLF has some splainen to do. Imagine Bert trying that routine with Holmgren in the room.
@Pikes Peak posted:I’ll go with ‘not solely’ on him.
Yeah, not even close to the biggest reason, but also not blameless.
He does have his hands on the ball approx 70 times a game, that must have some bearing.
@Tschmack posted:MLF is a fucking moron
Pot
Well, so long as the people who crucified Favre for not taking football seriously enough are not the exact same people raging at Rodgers for making everything too complex... carry on!
@Fandame posted:As a teacher, I know it's one thing to have high expectations but it's another to be realistic with a new class.
So, bottom line, how long does it take to teach the kids the 30+ genders and pronouns? Do zey figure it out by the end of September xis or xerself, or would zey benefit from getting a head start in summer school?
@MichiganPacker posted:Sammy Watkins should have never seen a first target as a Packer.
I was at the Eagles game, and Sammy had 2 of the key plays in the game and he didn’t touch the ball. Yes I thought he’d contribute more catches, but he has been a significant part of the running game.