McGinn lost all credibility with me when he blasted AR for saying to the Bears "he still effin owned them" after the touchdown. . Ol Bob was incredulous. He could never imagine any other QB saying such stuff. I think he is close personal friends with Hub Arkush. oHe also used to say how great the Packers team were under McCarthy that even if they lost Rodgers for any length of time they would sustain winning. Wrong again Bob. The only thing Bob has been good at the last 10 years is his draft series and that is not his opinion but those from contacts in the league. REtire for good Bob. We get it. You hate AR. At least now you have a few more friends that feel the same way you did 10 years ago.
@packerboi posted:As for OTA's not meaning much for an 18 year yet. No argument there. But there is also optics involved with this.
Agreed, its mostly just optics. But optics matter too
There really isn't a football reason for him to be at the early ones
Minicamp and training camp are plenty of time together. September became the new preseason after the recent CBA changes. Lots and lots of guys skip the voluntary workouts, the full list includes a lot of veteran stars. Other QBs too
I don't care for it, but I can't ding Rodgers for it either.
@Floridarob posted:McGinn lost all credibility with me when he blasted AR for saying to the Bears "he still effin owned them" after the touchdown. . Ol Bob was incredulous. He could never imagine any other QB saying such stuff. I think he is close personal friends with Hub Arkush. oHe also used to say how great the Packers team were under McCarthy that even if they lost Rodgers for any length of time they would sustain winning. Wrong again Bob. The only thing Bob has been good at the last 10 years is his draft series and that is not his opinion but those from contacts in the league. REtire for good Bob. We get it. You hate AR. At least now you have a few more friends that feel the same way you did 10 years ago.
What if he is right ?
@Satori posted:Agreed, its mostly just optics. But optics matter too
There really isn't a football reason for him to be at the early ones
Minicamp and training camp are plenty of time together. September became the new preseason after the recent CBA changes. Lots and lots of guys skip the voluntary workouts, the full list includes a lot of veteran stars. Other QBs tooI don't care for it, but I can't ding Rodgers for it either.
I just look at Mahomes having all his new WR down in Texas working with them on his own. And what was AR doing? Back packing and chomping on mushrooms.
If Rodgers had worked with the young receivers either during OTAs or on his own, the optics not only would have been better but so would the dynamics between him and the WRs. Look at the praise that Kelce heaped on Mahomes for bringing together all the WRs because they had so many new ones this year. KC won a lot of games, but in the early going those games were close (and they lost to Indy). Maybe the same thing happens in GB if Rodgers does his part.
As for his playing with a broken thumb, Rodgers could have been Pipped. He's seen how much Love has improved, and he had to be looking over his shoulder. It was also probably his own ego that kept him in those games. I have this vision of MLF when Rodgers says he's playing, saying to himself, "Damn. Let me bend that sucker back for ya."
Yeah, I think the FO is done with him, and so are the coaches. He has been playing the MM offense of waiting until guys beat their man one-on-one rather than taking the short, timing throws. It's just time to make a change... I'll be excited to see Love play, and if we enter some years of darkness, well, I was around through the '70s and '80s and I'm still a GBP fan.
There isn’t a football reason? How about a leadership reason? Mahomes does it. Plenty of other lesser QBs do it. Rodgers is too cool for school. Dark room, hanging out with B list celebrities like Miles Teller. Whatever. I’m done with his bullshit and so should be the Packers.
I pray to God he goes to the Jets and the NY media. Make it happen.
@Pakrz posted:Not picking on you, but I've read this a lot on here. There seems to be some foregone conclusion with some folks that think Jordan Love is that dude. I understand many people on this board only know the Favre and Rodgers eras, but great QBs don't grow on trees. Packer fans that lived through the 70's and 80's know that shit all to well. Hell, we sucked so bad that Majik whipped us all into a frenzy and he wasn't shit.
The reality is that GB will very likely go through several QBs and draft picks before they even sniff their next franchise type QB.
This, x4........ While I now believe there is no scenario that AR returns to GB (excluding retirement), there's no effin guarantee that Love materializes into anything. Just be careful what you wish for.....
@Satori posted:EX: Packers brass says:
"We were super disappointed in the recent playoff loss"
If someone actually sad that, they should be fired.
@Pikes Peak posted:What if he is right ?
There's a first time for everything.
@PackerRick posted:I definitely believe Packer management wants Rodgers gone.
Teams have put up with shit from players for a long time if they're good enough. If we didn't have Love, or had Rodgers' contract hanging over our heads, I'm sure they'd continue to put up with him like they always have. Fact is though we have more options than he does now. For perhaps the first time in his career, Rodgers isn't necessary any longer.
@Tavis Smiley posted:This, x4........ While I now believe there is no scenario that AR returns to GB (excluding retirement), there's no effin guarantee that Love materializes into anything. Just be careful what you wish for.....
This day is coming sooner than later one way or the other. 12 is fading and it's going to get more pronounced every season moving forward. Particularly towards the end of each season.
@Tschmack posted:There isn’t a football reason? How about a leadership reason? Mahomes does it. Plenty of other lesser QBs do it. Rodgers is too cool for school. Dark room, hanging out with B list celebrities like Miles Teller. Whatever. I’m done with his bullshit and so should be the Packers.
I pray to God he goes to the Jets and the NY media. Make it happen.
100% a leadership reason. When you get a bunch of new guys on the team I think it's imperative you get to know them and welcome them in, especially at a time (OTA's etc) when there aren't many other vets around and it's not as "serious" of work as training camp (in AR's mind). Would it show up on the field? Who knows, but if I knew all these new guys were gonna make or break us that season I'd be hanging out them all the time during OTA's etc, just so we could build a report together.
Reminds me of Doubs saying after the season was over that he never hung out with Rodgers off the field nor was ever invited to. Contrast that with Nixon saying that the Packers players hung out with each other more off the field than any other team he's played on. Sounds a bit like Rodgers is the odd one out in that dept.
FFS
13 seconds was a generous effort.
based on my own instincts and knowing the NFL and knowing what happens after all these defeats and discussions with someone who has firsthand knowledge of this organization, of the Packers’ internal debates
Instincts? That's rich.
Knowing? Not really breaking news with this comment.
Firsthand? Not in the past few years.
McGinn's a decent writer, but Wilde is more connected than Bob.
@vitaflo posted:100% a leadership reason. When you get a bunch of new guys on the team I think it's imperative you get to know them and welcome them in, especially at a time (OTA's etc) when there aren't many other vets around and it's not as "serious" of work as training camp (in AR's mind). Would it show up on the field? Who knows, but if I knew all these new guys were gonna make or break us that season I'd be hanging out them all the time during OTA's etc, just so we could build a report together.
Reminds me of Doubs saying after the season was over that he never hung out with Rodgers off the field nor was ever invited to. Contrast that with Nixon saying that the Packers players hung out with each other more off the field than any other team he's played on. Sounds a bit like Rodgers is the odd one out in that dept.
I think that has been going on for a few seasons. Forcing the Packers to bring Cobb back really opened my eyes to that.
@vitaflo posted:…Reminds me of Doubs saying after the season was over that he never hung out with Rodgers off the field nor was ever invited to. Contrast that with Nixon saying that the Packers players hung out with each other more off the field than any other team he's played on. Sounds a bit like Rodgers is the odd one out in that dept.
One has to be part of the inner circle of the inner circle.
The Doubs stuff is another example of something made about nothing. Listen to the Marshall Newhouse interview when asked about it....totally unrealistic to think that all the players are going to "hang out" with each other, or even like each other on a team of 50+, especially when you get a large age difference. Did Bart Starr hang out with Max MaGee and Paul Horning? Team chemistry / team attitude is built by the coaching staff and team leaders through the work they do together at practice . meetings, etc, not playing video games.
So one washed up beat writer says they're totally done with him, and another says they're scared of losing him. Nobody knows nothin'.
Aaron Jones restructures his contract freeing up $11.816 million of cap space. I'm sure someone mentioned it in another thread.
Agree with Dunne that the fear of moving on has been present in the Packer organization (really the only explanation for the horrible contract they gave AR). Also agree that nothing is guaranteed with Love but that doesn't make moving on the wrong decision.
Packer organization will just be compounding the mistake they made last year by sticking with AR and hopefully McGinn is correct.
I think a year ago the FO fear was having their legacy be they traded Rodgers and he took a team to the SB while the Packers became also rans. That was a legitimate fear with Rodgers coming off 2 MVP seasons. After watching Rodgers play last season and the Packers going 8-9 that fear is gone. I just hope Rodgers suitors believe the drop off was inadequate WR play in GB. I think Rodgers was more to blame for the drop off than many people believed. He got away with a lot of finger pointing.
I think the FO and coaches thought they would move on from Rodgers the year after Love was drafted (2020) because it appeared his play was in decline, but then Rodgers pulls it together and wins the MVP. So now they are basically forced to keep him for another year. Well, darned if he doesn't win the MVP again. They decide not to jettison him, and they give him the monster contract. Last year, Rodgers hits the wall hard. For sure the FO and coaches want him gone now; they're tired of his antics, the fans are tired, and his skills are quickly eroding.
In hindsight, of course, despite the two MVPs in a row, the FO should have let Rodgers' contract play out and trust that the two MVPs were an anomaly for a 37-year-old QB and not a trend. They gave him a contract befitting a guy like Mahomes who has several more top years ahead of him instead of behind him like Rodgers does.
@Packiderm posted:Reason # 23,030,05 to move on from Rodgers. The Packers not only need to evaluate Love, but also MLF's offense without Rodgers. May be a new coach on the horizon in a couple of years.
It could also mean that MLF's game plan, under Rodgers, was dictated by Rodgers. After the big contract Rodgers received, he had more control over what went on. Love won't have that control and MLF can be free to run that team, his way. We may actually see passes thrown to open receivers(less hero ball), the ball being run more often, which will take the heat off Love, protection wise.
Another thing, how is Purdy, after his arm injury? Maybe Rodgers will go to SF, as it was always his dream destination, before he turned pro.
@Jessie Clark posted:i sure hope this is true. but is mcginn really connected these days?
Is he on X4? If not, I'll say no way is he connected.
@Iowacheese posted:So when does the Prince of Darkness reappear
When is the next Pat McAfee show?
No, Dunne doesn't have any agenda against Rodgers or the Packers at all...
@PackerRick posted:I get the part about skipping OTAs but this year was much different with the reps and camaraderie with the rookie WRs could have been invaluable. That told me a lot about Rodgers' dedication to building chemistry and winning.
Yeah, they may have been overwhelmed from a day of learning a crap ton of new stuff and fine-pointing their technique, but the real key to a good offense is playing fucking dominoes in the dorm when you're mush from a long-assed day.
I know I hang out with work friends every night that are at least 18 years younger than I am.
Packers were 3-1 going to London. The London game had bad juju from the LaFleur position. He voiced dislike for the foreign games because of hoe it disrupts schedules. Rodgers breaks his thumb at the end of the London game, season takes a downturn.
That's how I see 2022.
@PackerRick posted:I think a year ago the FO fear was having their legacy be they traded Rodgers and he took a team to the SB while the Packers became also rans. That was a legitimate fear with Rodgers coming off 2 MVP seasons. After watching Rodgers play last season and the Packers going 8-9 that fear is gone. I just hope Rodgers suitors believe the drop off was inadequate WR play in GB. I think Rodgers was more to blame for the drop off than many people believed. He got away with a lot of finger pointing.
No question Rodgers had a rough year and wasn’t able to elevate the team around him as in the past. I still think it’s possible maybe he’s got 1 or 2 years left where he can elevate a team IF HEALTHY and properly motivated. He wasn’t healthy this year and it will only get tougher to stay healthy as he ages. He’s got a weird relationship with the Packers’ coaches and front office too, one that seems to be in decline to the point that maybe it’s best for both sides to move on.
I think Rodgers still can elevate a team an extra 3 or 4 wins next year if he’s healthy and properly motivated. In the Packers’ case, that extra 3 or 4 wins might only be a 9-8 record, not a true championship contender. I think if he truly wants to go for 1 more title in these next 2 years a change of scenery is necessary for him.
No, no, no, the whole issue was Rodgers not holding manscaping parties with the rookies at OTAs. Nothing builds cohesion and trust like holding razor blades next to each other's junk.
How else could Vince Lombardi have built those champioship Packers teams. Horning, Nitschke, Gregg, McGee in the morning, those guys knew their way around a strop.
@vitaflo posted:100% a leadership reason. When you get a bunch of new guys on the team I think it's imperative you get to know them and welcome them in, especially at a time (OTA's etc) when there aren't many other vets around and it's not as "serious" of work as training camp (in AR's mind). Would it show up on the field? Who knows, but if I knew all these new guys were gonna make or break us that season I'd be hanging out them all the time during OTA's etc, just so we could build a report together.
Reminds me of Doubs saying after the season was over that he never hung out with Rodgers off the field nor was ever invited to. Contrast that with Nixon saying that the Packers players hung out with each other more off the field than any other team he's played on. Sounds a bit like Rodgers is the odd one out in that dept.
It must be wierd to be a guy in his late 30s socializing with kids in their early 20s. Different generations. Mahomes is just a few years older than his teamates. Let's see what he does when he is in his late 30s and all his friends are retired.
@AaronNagler
"At one point late last year, Green Bay Packers general manager Brian Gutekunst told an NFL colleague he was convinced it was time the organization move on from quarterback Aaron Rodgers and see what Jordan Love had in him."
Not sure socializing was what was needed. Perhaps he could have taken the initiative to invite the young guys over to his estate, asked them to bring some of their tapes, went thru them together discussed what they were good at, what they needed to work on and how their game fit his game. This could have been done over a couple of hours and a couple of pizzas.
Would it have made a difference? Maybe, maybe not but I guess the rooks would have felt special and may have helped in establishing a relationship.
I'm in my 40s and I work with people in their 20s. I also teach at a local university to students who are 19-22. I relate very well to them and it makes me better at my job. l also help them develop at their job. Do I socialize with them outside of work and call them my friends? Mostly not. But to say that Rodgers can't navigate a 15 year age gap in a professional manner with his coworkers just makes him seem even more pathetic. Like just because they're different than him, Rodgers doesn't have to build a working, professional relationship with them? If that's true, then it's definitely time to move on from Rodgers.
@H5 posted:Packers were 3-1 going to London. The London game had bad juju from the LaFleur position. He voiced dislike for the foreign games because of hoe it disrupts schedules. Rodgers breaks his thumb at the end of the London game, season takes a downturn.
That's how I see 2022.
And the sheer stupidity of not taking your bye week right after London...