Bombshell: Brian Gutekunst is our new GM.

Who would have told him that?  Not Murphy, not the board of directors.  Maybe some writer tho.

Interesting indeed.

@H5 posted:

Interesting indeed.

The problem is what would that picked player be on everyone else's draft board?

I see a disorganized and undisciplined team on the field.  I can't blame the GM for that at this time.  If it's allowed to continue, then yeah.  they got 10 games to show they can coach a team up.  we shall see

While Gute deserve's his share of the blame nobody talks about the scouting department. Gute certainly depends a great deal on those people as well.

@PackerRick posted:

While Gute deserve's his share of the blame nobody talks about the scouting department. Gute certainly depends a great deal on those people as well.

Trying to understand this one.

If subpar scouts are giving Gutey sharty advice on who to draft, who exactly is responsible for having the subpar scouts working for the Packers in first place?

Is that Murph's fault? MLF's fault?

Because I was l under the impression that the GM is responsible for hiring competent scouts as part of his staff, no?

Then again, maybe it is still all Rodgers' fault.

Scouts are there to collect information. It is still the GM's call as who to draft.

I'll blame Gutey for the OL shit show...he has swung and missed on way too many guys and the current dumpster fire is a direct result.

But the amount of high value draft capital he's spent on the defense...it's not a tallant problem, it's a coaching problem...because the same problems have plagued this defense since Barry took the reigns. Year one the excuse was "first year of a new defense." Second year it was "bad luck with injuries." This year it's "no, this is the defense we will always have under Joe Barry."

@Chongo posted:

I'll blame Gutey for the OL shit show...he has swung and missed on way too many guys and the current dumpster fire is a direct result.

But the amount of high value draft capital he's spent on the defense...it's not a tallant problem, it's a coaching problem...because the same problems have plagued this defense since Barry took the reigns. Year one the excuse was "first year of a new defense." Second year it was "bad luck with injuries." This year it's "no, this is the defense we will always have under Joe Barry."

I think the problems on defense are not just during Barry's tenure.  Please don't get me wrong I hate the job that he has done and deserves to be canned yesterday.  But, the problems the Packers have had on defense goes back at least a decade and they have thrown a ton of draft picks and money at that defense and it still sucks. 

I do agree that Gute does bear a lot of the blame for the OL but I also strongly believe a lot of that is on the OL and OC for their shitty play.  Which is why I believe the other coach that needs to be calling a moving company is Butkus.

It is an interesting take someone had on the scouting department.   Gute was a scout and a lead scout for the Packers for a long time from 1998 until 2012 when he was promoted to the personnel department.  There was a ton of success for the Packers during that timeframe so perhaps there are issues with scouts and the information they give Gute.

@Chongo posted:

I'll blame Gutey for the OL shit show...he has swung and missed on way too many guys and the current dumpster fire is a direct result.

May be part of it, possibly, probably....I think the change of Stenavich from OL to OC may have a TON do with it.

People getting promoted to their highest level of incompetence.

@Boris posted:

May be part of it, possibly, probably....I think the change of Stenavich from OL to OC may have a TON do with it.

Maybe, but then how is Tom developing and playing well? He has less pro experience than Myers and Runyan, and the same amount as Wallace.

Tom had great fundamentals coming out of college and only needed to gain weight / strength to be able to play, which can be attributed to our strength & conditioning coach, not our o-line coach. . Myers physically has all the tools, but is prone to mental and technique mistakes. Runyan is limited athletically, but in his previous seasons made up for it with technique, which has slipped.

@Boris posted:

May be part of it, possibly, probably....I think the change of Stenavich from OL to OC may have a TON do with it.

One would think if that was the case, MLF would have recognized that after last season's OL fuck fest, and made the requisite adjustments.

I don't think the greatest OL coach of all time could get anything out of Royce Newman, and the Packers trot him out there from time to time.

Heard Mike Lombardi on McAfee today ....said that Bill Walsh always said that there is no need to go out and get top receivers until your o-line is good. Said that if you look around the league, most of the teams that are struggling have bad offensive lines. Think of Detroit. What was the first position group they became above average with? O-line, and then they upgraded everything else.

@FLPACKER posted:

Heard Mike Lombardi on McAfee today ....said that Bill Walsh always said that there is no need to go out and get top receivers until your o-line is good. Said that if you look around the league, most of the teams that are struggling have bad offensive lines. Think of Detroit. What was the first position group they became above average with? O-line, and then they upgraded everything else.

Common sense is not common.

@SteveLuke posted:

Trying to understand this one.

If subpar scouts are giving Gutey sharty advice on who to draft, who exactly is responsible for having the subpar scouts working for the Packers in first place?

Is that Murph's fault? MLF's fault?

Because I was l under the impression that the GM is responsible for hiring competent scouts as part of his staff, no?

Then again, maybe it is still all Rodgers' fault.

My point is he's reliant on the opinions of his scouts and how good is their judgement? The entire scouting department could be lame. This is one.

<<

3 years ago, the "makeshift" OL (largely comprised of the same guys we have today) got off to a shaky start (first 3-4 games), then gelled and played very well the rest of that season.
Then the 'rush' came to get Daktari back in the lineup for the playoff game vs SF, they sat the guys who were starting, and the OL performance dropped off a cliff.
They haven't been the same since.
Then came the coaching changes (Stenovich to OC, Butkis to OL) to begin the new season, and the regression has continued.


So, IMHO, there's nothing wrong with the picks/players. They have played well before, so the capability is there. It all points to coaching failures.

@Timmy! posted:

3 years ago, the "makeshift" OL (largely comprised of the same guys we have today) got off to a shaky start (first 3-4 games), then gelled and played very well the rest of that season.
Then the 'rush' came to get Daktari back in the lineup for the playoff game vs SF, they sat the guys who were starting, and the OL performance dropped off a cliff.
They haven't been the same since.
Then came the coaching changes (Stenovich to OC, Butkis to OL) to begin the new season, and the regression has continued.


So, IMHO, there's nothing wrong with the picks/players. They have played well before, so the capability is there. It all points to coaching failures.

They weren't good then, either, they just skated by until they hit playoff caliber play.

Gutekunst: “Josh Myers is playing the best football since he’s been here. He’s playing very, very well.”

Maybe Gute isn't paying much attention to the games/players and he is trusting Stenavich's comments, as being gospel. That's not a good thing! I think we need to demote Stenavich back to OL Coach and hire an Offensive Coordinator. Butkus could be moved to be another Offensive Quality Control Coach. That's only a part of the coaching changes we need. Barry could be demoted to running concessions at the sledding hill where we'd know the sledders would be safe from running into his concessions stand, as it would be 10 yards away from the hill.

Back in the SF Playoffs loss year we had Lucas Patrick, Billy Turner and Dennis Kelly.  playing pretty well. Not the same line at all .

@mrtundra posted:

Gutekunst: “Josh Myers is playing the best football since he’s been here. He’s playing very, very well.”

\

Or he is just acknowledging how bad Myers was in the past.

You have to believe the Packers will be drafting a LT in round 1.  There are a lot of good ones in the upcoming draft.  

The cynic in me says WMM isn't going to want to rock the boat before he rides off into the sunset.

I think Gutey is safe. If shit with the team continues to 2-15 or 3-14 there is an outside chance they fire MLF...if not I expect them to force him to make staff changes.

Gutey's career is hanging in the balance on the Love pick. He NEEDS Love to turn it around and be at least a competent QB. If not he is likely headed back out on the road for some other organization, talking to college coaches and watching college kids...something NO GM wants to ever have to go back and do. He won't be rewarded for admitting he was wrong about Love...so he will stick with him.

@Packiderm posted:

Back in the SF Playoffs loss year we had Lucas Patrick, Billy Turner and Dennis Kelly.  playing pretty well. Not the same line at all .

And played with a QB with the experience and ability (and perhaps the permission) to change plays at the line to avoid plays that had no chance based on the opposing defensive scheme.

Agreed.  MLF makes shitty decisions with coaches whether it’s hiring, promoting or firing.  On top of that, he’s not a good coach himself.  Gutey, in five drafts, hasn’t produced but three blue chippers and then the rest have been jags or worse.  Murphy created silos and who knows how much he controls things behind the scenes, but we all highly suspect he told Gutey to pass on the Denver trade which was a huge mistake.  The whole thing needs to be burned down to the ground starting with Murphy.  And then let’s hope the board makes a good decision and clearly defines that the President is not in charge is football operations.

Murphy has one year left before mandatory retirement and chances are they'll let him go out on his own terms. So even though I think this should be blown up after this season if things continue as they are, it will probably happen after the 2024 season no matter how bad it gets this year. There's no sense letting Murphy hire any new people especially with the way the front office is structured.

Interesting.

We want to smack them too.

For charity of course.

if the Packers recover and make it to the playoffs this year I think they should sign everybody in management and coaching to a life time contract.

What a difference a day makes. Before yesterday I was looking at the records of teams with similar records to the Packers to win so the Packers could get the highest draft choice they could. Now a day later I am hoping those teams lose so Packers can sneak in the playoffs.

For all the abuse Barry gets, the fact is he had a crippled defense playing with a passion not often seen and against a very good Detroit Lions. Kudos to him for whatever he did to get them ready.

A thought came to me a while ago...Brian should get a ton of credit for coaxing 2 more MVP seasons out of Rodgers by drafting Jordan Love.

I don't know if we'll win a Super Bowl under Gutey, but I think we're going to have a lot of fun and see some good football along the way.

Rodgers had his worst QBR in 2019 so I agree, it lit a fire under his ass.

But Rodgers has a huge ego and is stubborn. Originally he wanted to come back this season if the Jets were in the playoff hunt. Now that they've slipped to 7 spots away from the playoffs he wants to come back just so he can prove wrong the medical opinion that he can't make that quick of a recovery.

@Floridarob posted:

...What a difference a day makes. Before yesterday I was looking at the records of teams with similar records to the Packers to win so the Packers could get the highest draft choice they could. Now a day later I am hoping those teams lose so Packers can sneak in the playoffs...

LOL!
I was doing the same earlier this evening, and finally got around to looking at the week 13 schedule.
Our next opponent is the Chefs @ Lambeau. We may be crashing back to reality sooner rather than later.

Of course, I was thinking the same before the Loins game....

@Boris posted:

A thought came to me a while ago...Brian should get a ton of credit for coaxing 2 more MVP seasons out of Rodgers by drafting Jordan Love.

I don't know if we'll win a Super Bowl under Gutey, but I think we're going to have a lot of fun and see some good football along the way.

Didn't Gute want to trade Rodgers to Denver for a Kings ransom after Love was drafted according to the questionable  information posted on this board? If so, Murphy gets 100% credit for the two additional MVP years.

The information posted on this board was that Gutekunst wanted to trade Rodgers to Denver for a Kings ransom after the back-to-back MVP seasons.

@Pikes Peak posted:

For charity of course.

If Charity is a stripper…then yes.

Correct. Before the 2022 season was when Gutey had the potential deal with Denver

@13X posted:

Didn't Gute want to trade Rodgers to Denver for a Kings ransom after Love was drafted according to the questionable  information posted on this board? If so, Murphy gets 100% credit for the two additional MVP years.

The only things Murphy gets credit for is a sledding hill and his fucked up 3 silos.