@JimBobDuggar posted:Hey hey, Ho Ho, Joe Barry’s gotta go.
Hey hey, Ho Ho, Joe Barry’s gotta go.
@Blair Kiel posted:Does anyone else wonder based upon the thread title, why Joe Barry steals shoes?
Or maybe he steals everyones fish.
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this thread is excellent 😁
Why did Joe Barry pass off the wheel, his assignment, when he just yelled at his teammate the drive prior? pic.twitter.com/8rnLvPgK2N
— Justis Mosqueda (@JuMosq) September 18, 2023
Packers defense has given up 54 points this season. They currently rank 7th in the league in scoring defense.
— The Red Shed (@TheRealRedShed) September 26, 2023
Packer nation: WE WANT BARRY'S HEAD ON A SPIKE
Packers total yards 15th in NFL per game: 336.7 per game
Packers Pass Defense: 10th in NFL. 199.7 per game
Packers Rush Defense: 27th in the NFL, 136.7 per game.
Typically, Barry's D starts off like shit. Then gets better in the 2nd half. It will be interesting to see how these numbers change, hopefully for the better.
It's that rush defense that has his seat warm.
...against teams that are collectively expected to finish around .500. I'm still in the "Hey hey, ho ho, Joe Barry's gotta go" camp. I hope he ends up faring better than I expect. Maybe not a coincidence, Savage's play has been a little less brutal so far this season...of course a contract year.
Those are about the same numbers the defense performed at last year.
In spite of those stats, it doesn't include the part where they are a missed FG away from being 1-2, and it was the defense that allowed them to drive deep enough for the attempt.
Had it been successful, the defensive numbers wouldn't have much of a change, so it still looks good. But 1-2 would've been the real story.
1:03 left on the clock after that missed FG.
1:03 is what, 30-40 seconds less than it took NO to march right down the field, on the road, without Carr or Kamara, to set up a field goal with the game on the line? I mean, I'm happy with the outcome but not overly impressed with the ability to get a stop there. I don't recall, was Gary even on the field for the first 2 plays of the last NO drive, that netted 33 yards?
@JimBobDuggar posted:1:03 is what, 30-40 seconds less than it took NO to march right down the field, on the road, without Carr or Kamara, to set up a field goal with the game on the line? I mean, I'm happy with the outcome but not overly impressed with the ability to get a stop there. I don't recall, was Gary even on the field for the first 2 plays of the last NO drive, that netted 33 yards?
At least Barry didn't sit back in soft zone on the 3rd and long. He blitzed, forced the ball out of Winston's hands early, and forced the short completion to set up the long FG. More often than not, he's sat back in soft zone in those situations and the QB waits for a receiver to find an opening to make an easy throw. And then they run out the clock before kicking a short FG.
That last NO drive was basically one long pass against a 3rd string DB that was elevated from the PS because of Alexander's injury. Nobody is a fan of Barry but how many times did his defense stop NO in the 4th qtr to give the Packers a chance to score 3 times?
He has a short leash as well he should.
He has EIGHT first round draft picks on that defense (7 with Jaire out)
There are no excuses and his defense should be holding teams under 20 points just about every single week.
They played well vs. The Saints and Bears
@Timmy! posted:Those are about the same numbers the defense performed at last year.
In spite of those stats, it doesn't include the part where they are a missed FG away from being 1-2, and it was the defense that allowed them to drive deep enough for the attempt.
Had it been successful, the defensive numbers wouldn't have much of a change, so it still looks good. But 1-2 would've been the real story.
True, if games were 59 minutes long. 
They are also possibly an ATTEMPTED FG (instead of punting) or a couple of 4th quarter 1st downs from being 3-0.
@JimBobDuggar posted:Hey hey, Ho Ho, Joe Barry’s gotta go.
@JimBobDuggar posted:Hey hey, Ho Ho, Joe Barry’s gotta go.
Hey hey, Ho Ho, Joe Barry’s gotta go.
Season is still young, but thus far 3 of the 4 opponents (Bears, Falcons, and now Lions) have put up their season high points total against the Pack.
Way to go Joe.
OMG, 4th & 3, game over, and Barry has Van Ness in coverage and a soft zone to only give up 6.
LIons fans are roaring with laughter that we hired such a clown.
@JimBobDuggar posted:Hey hey, Ho Ho, Joe Barry’s gotta go.
@JimBobDuggar posted:Hey hey, Ho Ho, Joe Barry’s gotta go.
@JimBobDuggar posted:Hey hey, Ho Ho, Joe Barry’s gotta go.
Hey hey, Ho Ho, Joe Barry and MLF gotta go.
@SteveLuke posted:Season is still young, but thus far 3 of the 4 opponents (Bears, Falcons, and now Lions) have put up their season high points total against the Pack.
Way to go Joe.
...and I don't think many are expecting much from the Bears or the Falcons.
Hey hey, ho ho, JimBobDuggar has got to go...
get a new shtick.
@SteveLuke posted:Season is still young, but thus far 3 of the 4 opponents (Bears, Falcons, and now Lions) have put up their season high points total against the Pack.
Way to go Joe.
We’re the preferred Homecoming opponent!
Dare I ask, whose worse da bears or, gulp, the Packers?? Seriously?? 
@Goldie posted:Dare I ask, whose worse da bears or, gulp, the Packers?? Seriously??
Come on now.
Herman highlighted the Lions second or third TD, a 2 yard run. Second and goal from the 2 yard line and we had our nickel package on the field. Our worst two run-defender edges (Hollins & Enagbare) and our worst two run defense interior lineman (Brooks and Wooden), 2 ILBers, and 5 DBs. No Clark, Gary, Slayton, Smith , or Van Ness. Lions had 6 blockers at the LOS. As Herman said, just by personnel, there is no way we could stop a run from the 2 yard line. WTF!!!
MLF decided to keep Barry when a slew of other DC's were available. And here we are..
Packers rank in defensive rush EPA per snap since Brian Gutekunst became GM: 32nd
— Matt Schneidman (@mattschneidman) September 29, 2023
Since Matt LaFleur became coach: 32nd
This season: 27th
LaFleur on the run defense: “It’s insane to do the same things over and over again and expect a different result.” https://t.co/jFciyH5fWS
Behind that paywall on the Athletic:
Saleh, Packers head coach Matt LaFleur’s best friend in the business, essentially called his buddy’s team soft. Here we are, almost a full year later, and LaFleur and his team have done little to dispel that notion.
Manhandled in every phase. Whooped. Ass kicked. Humbled. That is how LaFleur himself described what the Lions did to the Packers on Thursday night in Detroit’s (3-1) 34-20 thrashing of Green Bay (2-2). Even after the Packers overcame a 17-0 fourth-quarter deficit in an 18-17 win over the New Orleans Saints last Sunday, we can’t reasonably say their DNA is much different right now than that of the team Saleh buried with that quote. What we can say for certain, however, is that there’s a new team to beat in the NFC North. Quarterback Jordan Love was asked if that team was the Lions.
“Yeah,” he said, agreeing with what’s obvious to any outside observers. “For sure.”
If you want to gauge a team’s toughness, look no further than how they run the ball and stop the run. On Thursday, the Packers averaged 2.3 yards per carry on 12 rushes. Behind a hobbled offensive line and without their star running back for almost two and a half games, the Packers rank 22nd in the NFL in offensive expected points added (EPA) per rush, according to TruMedia. We can at least in part excuse that deficiency since the running game has suffered without running back Aaron Jones (returned Thursday but ran only five times for 18 yards), left tackle David Bakhtiari (missed Weeks 2 and 3 and is out until at least Week 9) and left guard Elgton Jenkins (missed three quarters in Week 2 and the two games since), but it’s the hand the Packers have been dealt nonetheless and they’ve failed to deliver on the ground.
What’s far more inexcusable is allowing 4.9 yards per rush on 43 Lions carries for 211 yards on the ground.
“I think any time you go out there and you can’t effectively run the football and conversely can’t stop the run, that’s a recipe for losing football,” LaFleur said.
Two weeks ago, the Atlanta Falcons ran the ball 45 times at 4.7 yards per carry for another 211 rushing yards against the Packers. Granted, the Packers held the Chicago Bears in Week 1 to 4.2 yards per carry on 29 rushes after they led the league with 5.4 yards per carry last season, but that’s still over 4 yards per carry. The outlier is the Saints running for only 3.5 yards per carry on 22 rushes last week, but that was without either of their top two running backs, Alvin Kamara and Jamaal Williams.
Teams know how to beat the Packers. Run. The. Ball. It’s no secret. Take them to the deep end, like Saleh said, and the likelihood is they won’t come up. The Packers rank 27th in defensive rush EPA per snap with what was supposed to be a much-improved defensive interior with an infusion of young talent to complement Kenny Clark and a deep edge rusher group behind Rashan Gary and Preston Smith. As it turns out, not much has changed since Raheem Mostert and the San Francisco 49ers gashed the Packers for 285 rushing yards in the 2019 NFC Championship Game.
Since LaFleur became head coach, do you know how many teams have a defensive rush EPA per snap above zero? Thirty-one. The one team that doesn’t? The Packers. Dead last in run defense effectiveness since LaFleur became head coach, and dead last since general manager Brian Gutekunst officially became GM in 2018. Gutekunst hasn’t stocked his roster with good enough run defenders. LaFleur and his staff haven’t coached them well enough to stop the run. And the players aren’t executing. Everyone deserves blame.
“We’re going to have to do something different,” LaFleur said Thursday night when told the Packers have allowed more than 200 rushing yards in both losses this season. “Because it’s insane to do the same things over and over again and expect a different result.”
What exactly LaFleur means and who he’s targeting is up for interpretation. Fans want the target to be third-year defensive coordinator Joe Barry — it might be — but LaFleur likely thinks, and would certainly say publicly, that the issues up front on defense are far more widespread than just one person.
According to TruMedia, the Lions averaged 2.12 yards before contact per rush on Thursday. Only three teams in the NFL have a higher average in that category this season. That’s how badly the Lions manhandled Green Bay’s defense up front. And according to Next Gen Stats, 113 of running back David Montgomery’s 121 rushing yards came after contact. Not only could the Packers not get off blocks in the run game, but they also couldn’t tackle adequately when they managed to disengage.
“When you get the run going and then you’re able to play action off it and all that stuff, then you got everything open for you after that,” Clark said.
In Week 18 last season, the Lions marched into Lambeau Field with nothing to play for, the Packers needing a win to make the playoffs, and grinded out a 20-16 win. In Week 4 this season, with an early lead in the NFC North at stake, the Lions straight-up punked the Packers. Their 27 first-half points were the most Detroit has ever scored against Green Bay in a single half. The Lions had six more points in the first half than the Packers had total net yards (they averaged 1 yard per play in the opening 30 minutes). Every Packers offensive lineman allowed a pressure in the opening 30 minutes without the Lions blitzing, according to Next Gen Stats, and the defense collapsed after an early interception, in part because it barely got a breather with the offense still in the locker room.
LaFleur was asked after the game, “What do you think happens to cause a first half like that, where you got nothing?”
“I mean, you saw it,” LaFleur said. “I mean, we got our ass kicked. If I knew, it wouldn’t have happened.”
Another reporter began asking an unrelated question and LaFleur interjected with one last thought on the prior one. He snapped, in a way LaFleur rarely does.
“That’s a BS question, man.”
This hole, unlike last week’s, was too steep to overcome. The Packers made it interesting, cutting their deficit to 10 points with 14:52 remaining — they trailed by 17 with a smidge more than 11 minutes left against the Saints and won. But a backward pass out of bounds that lost 10 yards on first down in the third quarter down 16 after a Lions punt, a defense more leaky than the one that pitched a second-half shutout four days prior, and a leaping penalty while defending a 30-yard field-goal attempt that led to four more Lions points and milked 2:10 off the clock in the process crushed any second-half comeback
“This is not how we want to do it,” wide receiver Christian Watson said. “We’ve got to come out fighting and clawing and scratching at the beginning of the game. We just can’t put ourselves in that position every week.”
If there was any doubt who the top dog in the division is right now, Lions head coach Dan Campbell went for it on fourth-and-3 from the Packers’ 24-yard line with just more than a minute left in the game, the Lions leading by 14. With cornerback Rasul Douglas lined up almost three yards behind the first down marker, wide receiver Amon-Ra St. Brown ran a stop route and scooted into space to his right in front of Douglas for an easy conversion. Ballgame. Just like in Week 18 last season, when Campbell faced a fourth-and-1 from the Packers’ 15-yard line with just more than a minute left, up 20-16 and a chance to stick the dagger in Green Bay’s playoff hopes. Wide receiver D.J. Chark ran a similar stop route, sat down in an open spot in the zone and corralled an easy nine-yard completion to end the Packers’ season.
We saw in January what a Lions team with nothing to play for was made of. They reminded us of the same on Thursday, this time displaying a supreme resolve in the trenches, that true Midwest grit and an alpha mentality their head coach has instilled — all things the Packers still appear to lack.
We saw in January what a Lions team with nothing to play for was made of. They reminded us of the same on Thursday, this time displaying a supreme resolve in the trenches, that true Midwest grit and an alpha mentality their head coach has instilled — all things the Packers still appear to lack.
Final paragraph sums it up pretty well for me.
@packerboi posted:Behind that paywall on the Athletic:
Manhandled in every phase. Whooped. Ass kicked. Humbled. That is how LaFleur himself described what the Lions did to the Packers on Thursday night in Detroit’s (3-1) 34-20 thrashing of Green Bay (2-2).
Since LaFleur became head coach, do you know how many teams have a defensive rush EPA per snap above zero? Thirty-one. The one team that doesn’t? The Packers. Dead last in run defense effectiveness since LaFleur became head coach, and dead last since general manager Brian Gutekunst officially became GM in 2018. Gutekunst hasn’t stocked his roster with good enough run defenders.
By now, most everybody knows Barry sucks as a D Coordinator.
However, the notion that Joe is the sole reason the Packer D, and specifically the Packer's run D, has sucked for the past 6 seasons does not withstand scrutiny.
I am not sure how they change the course here, quite frankly. I think it starts with the packer people types they draft to the coach to the gm...so perhaps if we keep mlf and gutey, the last bastion would be...coaches...assistants that is. not sure how butkus' nephew has such a pussy OL even runyan's kid; jeez runyan was a bad mamma-jamma...and defense needs a reboot, i would say its not really 100% JB's fault, but get that leslie guy in for some fresh air...cuz what is happening is not working...and its not really a knee-jerk reaction, this has been happening for sometime now. and mlf is next...
there should always be a 'sense' of improvement...even in defeat...last night did not have many highlights, maybe 52, 11, 87 but that's about it.
But really...if MLF is so unfit to be a HC how do you explain 47-19 in his first four years?
Volume Up...
There’s effort and talent issues on defense but this is setting your team up to fail with bad structure. Too common with Joe Barry. https://t.co/A2lnEpeQp5
— Peter Bukowski (@Peter_Bukowski) September 29, 2023
Ketchman had a theory about teams' identities and where they struggle vs where they excel. He of course said PIT's identity was defense. So was the Bears, historically. He believed GB's identity has been offense and throwing the ball, going almost all the way back to Starr, certainly back to Holmgren.
The 96 team was the last time you saw a physical top rated D in GB and it's been all offense since then. The 2010 D was very good but had top talent in all the right spots, moreso than being a beat-you-up type unit. A team can't change its identity without drastic changes from top down.
"Offense, especially throwing the ball, is just in GB's DNA. It's their identity and it's been their identity for a long time".
We don't necessarily need a BAL/SF/TB type D to be good. We have the talent. They're either not being coached by position well enough to consistently beat their man, or they're not being put into positions to succeed. Or both. Or we don't have the talent, just underperforming high draft picks.
Yep, and all the people saying what a great game Quay had.
It’s clear he will flash occasionally. But he plays too much like a Beta in a bar fight
Right wrong or otherwise shoot the gap. Quit giving so much cushion.
This team plays like pussies and that has been the theme for awhile.
I think Barry puts Quay too far off the LOS for Quay to do his best work. Barry has him playing so far off, he might as well be a safety. Barry has everyone playing so far off, it's embarrassing.
MLF said he was tired of seeing the same thing over and over and hoping for a better result. If he really feels that way, Barry should have his playbook and access to 1265 stripped today. If MLF is serious, he's got to find someone else. At this point, he might as well go into the stands and pick a fan.
@Fandame posted:MLF said he was tired of seeing the same thing over and over and hoping for a better result.
Hoping???? HOPING?!?!!!?
AFTER 4 games of seeing the same bullshit defense vs. The run, I've seen enough. It's time for a change and put defensive players in their best position to succeed.
Kenny Clark told us to watch the tape. I'm watching. And I'm seeing that same bullshit.
MLF, Don't even insult my intelligence and say that if Belichick or Saleh was the DC, we'd see the same results. There's no effing way.
I've seen enough. He's gotta go.
@Chongo posted:But really...if MLF is so unfit to be a HC how do you explain 47-19 in his first four years?
Most people will say AARON RODGERS.
Rodgers did cover up a lot of warts with his two MVP seasons. And in 2019 they were a lot like the 2022 Vikings. Won a bunch of games by 7 points or less. Instead of falling off the next year like the Vikings are this year Rodgers went out and had his best or 2nd best season in his career.
